From: Geoffrey T. <gta...@na...> - 2002-06-20 16:10:36
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My advice is: Try to do that change only, without other changes, in a single CVS checkin. That way it's easier to look at diffs in the CVS history later -- you won't be mixing in these many cosmetic changes with other substantive changes. - Geoff > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Bicking [mailto:ia...@co...] > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 12:00 PM > To: web...@li... > Subject: [Webware-devel] Fixing doc strings > > > I'd like to fix all the '''-quoted doc strings in Webware (replacing > them with """). This will touch most of the files, but in a > trivial way > -- is there anything I should think about before doing this? > > Ian > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Bringing you mounds of caffeinated joy > >>> http://thinkgeek.com/sf <<< > > _______________________________________________ > Webware-devel mailing list > Web...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webware-devel > |
From: Edmund L. <el...@in...> - 2002-06-20 18:36:46
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Ian Bicking wrote: >I'd like to fix all the '''-quoted doc strings in Webware (replacing >them with """). I must have missed the discussion about this... what's wrong with ''' doc strings? I've been using these because it's easier to type than """... ...Edmund. |
From: Ian B. <ia...@co...> - 2002-06-20 18:42:03
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On Thu, 2002-06-20 at 13:40, Edmund Lian wrote: > > Ian Bicking wrote: > > >I'd like to fix all the '''-quoted doc strings in Webware (replacing > >them with """). > > I must have missed the discussion about this... what's wrong with ''' doc > strings? I've been using these because it's easier to type than """... Emacs doesn't quite grock triple-quoted strings. It parses '''something''' as ('')('something')('') -- this works fine most of the time, but it means that: '''what's wrong here?''' gets parsed as ('')('what') and then it gets confused and breaks totally (it sees a line (s wrong here?)('')('...hanging)). This doesn't happen often with """, since if there's " embedded in the string, they are usually balanced. Ian |
From: Tavis R. <ta...@re...> - 2002-06-20 18:46:02
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Emacs mucks up the syntax highlighting when the ''' strings contain unbal= anced=20 ' inside of them. The same problem exists with """ and unbalanced ", but= it=20 is less common. Emacs is truly braindead in this case. On June 20, 2002 11:40 am, Edmund Lian wrote: > Ian Bicking wrote: > >I'd like to fix all the '''-quoted doc strings in Webware (replacing > >them with """). > > I must have missed the discussion about this... what's wrong with ''' d= oc > strings? I've been using these because it's easier to type than """... > > ...Edmund. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Sponsored by: > ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Webware-devel mailing list > Web...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webware-devel |
From: Tavis R. <ta...@re...> - 2002-06-20 18:48:22
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Here's the full explanation: http://www.python.org/emacs/python-mode/faq.html On June 20, 2002 11:40 am, Edmund Lian wrote: > Ian Bicking wrote: > >I'd like to fix all the '''-quoted doc strings in Webware (replacing > >them with """). > > I must have missed the discussion about this... what's wrong with ''' d= oc > strings? I've been using these because it's easier to type than """... > > ...Edmund. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Sponsored by: > ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Webware-devel mailing list > Web...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webware-devel |
From: Edmund L. <el...@in...> - 2002-06-20 18:57:43
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Ian and Tavis, thanks for the quick reply regarding single versus double quoted triplets. Seems to me though, that if the issue is Emacs can't understand triple quoted strings that use apostrophes, then Emacs should be fixed, not Python source code. Once everybody starts going down the path of adapting coding habits to the limitations and idiosyncracies of editors, there'll be no end of trouble. E.g., "oh, editor X doesn't handle Y well, so let's not use Y either, since we did the same for Emacs". I can't see any particular reason why one should favor helping Emacs over another editor... ...Edmund. |
From: Tavis R. <ta...@re...> - 2002-06-20 19:13:23
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Edmund, I agree that this problem with Emacs should be fixed. However, I disagree= with=20 your argument. Take it to the extreme and you end up with statements lik= e=20 "Operation system X has a broken implementation of Y, but who cares! That= 's=20 their problem. Why should our code be crippled because they don't support= =20 it?" Emacs has a large constituency, particularly among Python coders, a= nd=20 the benefits of making them 'like' reading your code far outweigh the min= or=20 inconvenience of using """ instead of '''. Tavis On June 20, 2002 12:01 pm, Edmund Lian wrote: > Ian and Tavis, thanks for the quick reply regarding single versus doubl= e > quoted triplets. Seems to me though, that if the issue is Emacs can't > understand triple quoted strings that use apostrophes, then Emacs shoul= d be > fixed, not Python source code. > > Once everybody starts going down the path of adapting coding habits to = the > limitations and idiosyncracies of editors, there'll be no end of troubl= e. > E.g., "oh, editor X doesn't handle Y well, so let's not use Y either, s= ince > we did the same for Emacs". I can't see any particular reason why one > should favor helping Emacs over another editor... > > ...Edmund. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Sponsored by: > ThinkGeek at http://www.ThinkGeek.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Webware-devel mailing list > Web...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webware-devel |
From: Tavis R. <ta...@re...> - 2002-06-20 19:27:18
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On June 20, 2002 12:13 pm, Tavis Rudd wrote: > Edmund, > I agree that this problem with Emacs should be fixed. However, I disagr= ee > with your argument. Take it to the extreme and you end up with stateme= nts > like "Operation system X has a broken implementation of Y, but who care= s! > That's their problem. Why should our code be crippled because they don'= t > support it?" Emacs has a large constituency, particularly among Python > coders, and the benefits of making them 'like' reading your code far > outweigh the minor inconvenience of using """ instead of '''. let me rephrase that last line ... the benefits of making emacs users 'l= ike'=20 reading Webware code far outweigh the costs of letting someone else switc= h=20 the code over to """ instead of ''' and it is no inconvenience to other=20 users. |
From: Ian B. <ia...@co...> - 2002-06-20 19:21:23
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On Thu, 2002-06-20 at 14:01, Edmund Lian wrote: > > Ian and Tavis, thanks for the quick reply regarding single versus double > quoted triplets. Seems to me though, that if the issue is Emacs can't > understand triple quoted strings that use apostrophes, then Emacs should be > fixed, not Python source code. That would be nice, but it won't happen anytime soon. I think it would mean significant changes to Emacs (not just the Python mode). It seems like there's something in the Emacs parsing code that presumes one-character tokens (parenthesis, quotes, etc). > Once everybody starts going down the path of adapting coding habits to the > limitations and idiosyncracies of editors, there'll be no end of trouble. > E.g., "oh, editor X doesn't handle Y well, so let's not use Y either, since > we did the same for Emacs". I can't see any particular reason why one > should favor helping Emacs over another editor... Because there are many people using Emacs as their primary IDE, and using """ isn't a big deal. If some other major editor had an issue that was trivial to fix, then that would be fine by me. Of course, there are very few editors that are "major", but so be it. Ian |
From: Chuck E. <ChuckEsterbrook@StockAlerts.com> - 2002-06-22 00:49:40
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On Thursday 20 June 2002 12:01 pm, Edmund Lian wrote: > Ian and Tavis, thanks for the quick reply regarding single versus > double quoted triplets. Seems to me though, that if the issue is > Emacs can't understand triple quoted strings that use apostrophes, > then Emacs should be fixed, not Python source code. > > Once everybody starts going down the path of adapting coding habits > to the limitations and idiosyncracies of editors, there'll be no end > of trouble. E.g., "oh, editor X doesn't handle Y well, so let's not > use Y either, since we did the same for Emacs". I can't see any > particular reason why one should favor helping Emacs over another > editor... Amen, brother! I totally agree, but as a minor concession, I yielded to the emacs zealots and gave the green light to switch to """. I hope the death threats stop now! ;-) The other change agreed upon, but probably not yet implemented is wrapping class and method doc strings to column 72 (in edits where tabs=4; col 80 whe tabs=8) in order for easier reading. On Thursday 20 June 2002 12:27 pm, Edmund Lian wrote: > Here's a cheeky comment (meant in fun): if Emacs has such a large > constituency amongst Python coders, and if it is so extensible, why > hasn't the problem been fixed? :-) OK, no flame wars please! :-) I love it! Edmund, these were the same things I was saying a while back when our emacs-abilities vs. python-syntax flamewar reached the kind of proportions where we lost subscribers. Not that I loved that last part. But it is interesting to note that Emacs being open source and both products having been around for years, Emacs still can't handle a proper Python file. On Thursday 20 June 2002 12:36 pm, Edmund Lian wrote: > The thing that bugs me more, actually, is the tabs vs spaces issue > since this actually has semantic implications. I've been caught out > more than once by someone else's code using tabs, (or worse, a > mixture of tabs and spaces). Now, this is worth a good fight or two! Ah, but that's the one I didn't concede. Also, note that we do NOT use a mixture, which is the ultimate Python sin. > Actually, up until about a year ago, I used Emacs 100% of the time. I > eventually got tired of the bloat and need to do finger-gymnastics on > the keyboard to get anything done. It was quite hard to switch to > vim, but I'm glad that I took the time. But now you have let me down! VIM???? ;-) I personally recommend: Kate on linux UltraEdit on windows or: SciTE on * And of course, don't forget to support the WingIDE guys! http://archaeopteryx.com/ -Chuck |
From: Edmund L. <el...@in...> - 2002-06-20 19:23:42
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Tavis wrote: > I agree that this problem with Emacs should be fixed. However, I disagree with > your argument. Take it to the extreme and you end up with statements like > "Operation system X has a broken implementation of Y, but who cares! That's > their problem. Why should our code be crippled because they don't support > it?" Emacs has a large constituency, particularly among Python coders, and > the benefits of making them 'like' reading your code far outweigh the minor > inconvenience of using """ instead of '''. Yes, but this is truly an extreme position. I think it's just a bit much to have to adapt the work to fit the tool, rather than the tool to fit the work--particularly for something as trivial as doc string quotes! Here's a cheeky comment (meant in fun): if Emacs has such a large constituency amongst Python coders, and if it is so extensible, why hasn't the problem been fixed? :-) OK, no flame wars please! :-) Actually, up until about a year ago, I used Emacs 100% of the time. I eventually got tired of the bloat and need to do finger-gymnastics on the keyboard to get anything done. It was quite hard to switch to vim, but I'm glad that I took the time. ...Edmund. |
From: Edmund L. <el...@in...> - 2002-06-20 19:33:32
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Tavis wrote: > let me rephrase that last line ... the benefits of making > emacs users 'like' reading Webware code far outweigh the > costs of letting someone else switch the code over to """ > instead of ''' and it is no inconvenience to other users. I understand, really! :-) Thanks to Ian and yourself for explaining the situation with the ''' quotes. I had thought it was something deeper than pleasing Emacs users. The thing that bugs me more, actually, is the tabs vs spaces issue since this actually has semantic implications. I've been caught out more than once by someone else's code using tabs, (or worse, a mixture of tabs and spaces). Now, this is worth a good fight or two! ...Edmund. |
From: Edmund L. <el...@in...> - 2002-06-22 03:07:38
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Chuck wrote: >But now you have let me down! VIM???? > >;-) > > >I personally recommend: > Kate on linux > UltraEdit on windows > or: > SciTE on * Mumble, mumble... I needed to use something that didn't require a GUI, could run over a telnet session, and was cross-platform. Once you have these requirements, it's basically a choice between Emacs and some vi variant. vim's not too bad once you get used to the modal editing... ...Edmund. |