webmacro-user — List for WebMacro users, developers, competitors, and friends.

Re: [WebMacro-user] Performance of WM

[Tim P. <ti...@pa...>]

On Monday 18 July 2005 19:56, Marc Palmer wrote:
> Lane Sharman wrote:
>
> > I don't think in my 25 years of experience I have ever seen such a
> > promising technology as Java been so mismanged by its owner leading some
> > to call Java the Cobol of our generation.
>
> I strongly agree. 
Strongly agree.
> However we have to take some of the blame - the 
> language creators of PHP didn't create these great applications, end
> users did.
Java/tomcat just does not work out of the box, even now. 

My expertise is in having set up quite a few application servers, 
this is ridiculous and has forced me into the role of mechanic not engineer. 
>
> Broadly speaking, PHP seems to have always been obsessed with web sites,
> whereas Java seemed obsessed with the Enterprise. Java wins in the
> enterprise, but loses on the web. ... currently.
>
I have great hopes for eclipse, it seems to be getting loads of take-up.
>
> I'm building a Java-based CMS. I mean a CMS for creating web sites, not
> just portals, and with a very simple user interface so your customers
> really CAN use it, not like most of the CMSs out there (Plone excluded)
> that pretend that you can offload content maintenance to your Newbie
> clients but in reality you simply cannot. The (free) Java CMSs out there
> are so over complicated and bloated, and typically use ridiculous
> Javascript mechanisms that break in browsers (try an IE5 MacOS 8.5 client).

One of the really cool features of Melati is the ability to add tables and 
columns on the fly, in front of the customer if need be, and for very clean WM 
code to magically adjust to the change.
http://melati.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/melati/src/main/org/melati/admin/Edit.wm

The roadblock for me with Melati is how to refactor it into a dependency 
injection compatible form, and coerce it into a j2ee/ejb compliant form, 
as it is completely dependant upon inheritance from its own definition of 
Persistent and indeed of Table and Database.

Melati really only has me as a continued devotee, but like WM it is good, 
well thoughtout code that is a relatively complete exposition of how to 
publish data on the web. 

cheers
Tim

Re: [WebMacro-user] Performance of WM

[Tim P. <ti...@pa...>]

On Monday 18 July 2005 19:56, Marc Palmer wrote:
> Lane Sharman wrote:
>
> > I don't think in my 25 years of experience I have ever seen such a
> > promising technology as Java been so mismanged by its owner leading some
> > to call Java the Cobol of our generation.
>
> I strongly agree. 
Strongly agree.
> However we have to take some of the blame - the 
> language creators of PHP didn't create these great applications, end
> users did.
Java/tomcat just does not work out of the box, even now. 

My expertise is in having set up quite a few application servers, 
this is ridiculous and has forced me into the role of mechanic not engineer. 
>
> Broadly speaking, PHP seems to have always been obsessed with web sites,
> whereas Java seemed obsessed with the Enterprise. Java wins in the
> enterprise, but loses on the web. ... currently.
>
I have great hopes for eclipse, it seems to be getting loads of take-up.
>
> I'm building a Java-based CMS. I mean a CMS for creating web sites, not
> just portals, and with a very simple user interface so your customers
> really CAN use it, not like most of the CMSs out there (Plone excluded)
> that pretend that you can offload content maintenance to your Newbie
> clients but in reality you simply cannot. The (free) Java CMSs out there
> are so over complicated and bloated, and typically use ridiculous
> Javascript mechanisms that break in browsers (try an IE5 MacOS 8.5 client).

One of the really cool features of Melati is the ability to add tables and 
columns on the fly, in front of the customer if need be, and for very clean WM 
code to magically adjust to the change.
http://melati.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/melati/src/main/org/melati/admin/Edit.wm

The roadblock for me with Melati is how to refactor it into a dependency 
injection compatible form, and coerce it into a j2ee/ejb compliant form, 
as it is completely dependant upon inheritance from its own definition of 
Persistent and indeed of Table and Database.

Melati really only has me as a continued devotee, but like WM it is good, 
well thoughtout code that is a relatively complete exposition of how to 
publish data on the web. 

cheers
Tim

Re: [WebMacro-user] Performance of WM

[Marc P. <ma...@an...>]

Lane Sharman wrote:
>> I don't believe we have any stats but:
> 
> 
> not true. run ant test and then look at the working directory :).

I mean WM vs. PHP stats.

>> PHP is really a "quick fix" language, i.e. for hacking sites together 
>> quickly or using existing "Portal" tools like PHP Nuke. Serious things 
>> with scalability and performance considerations are much better done 
>> in Java, but take a bit longer to develop.
> 
> 
> I disagree with this last paragraph. php used properly and with its 
> object-oriented support can create superlative applications which are 
> "rendering (DHTML, CSS, JS) and database intensive". In other words, 90% 
> of the everyday web applications. If you are looking to create a 
> content-centric application (articles, feeds, users, shopping, calendar 
> and more), you absolutely must run to Mambo. I consider myself an 
> average web developer but with Mambo, I created something that everyday 
> gains users at the rate of 20-30 per day for a radio station in town ( 
> htttp://www.mighty1090.com ). In short, for content-driven applications 
> and CMS in general, do not overlook Mambo.

...I have recently investigated lots and lots of CMS systems using both 
PHP and Java, to try to not have to reinvent the wheel. 99% of the CMSs 
out there can only realistically produce "Portal" style sites, not 
"individual" looking "old fashioned" web sites.

If you want an instant "portal" style site, PHP Nuke / Mambo / Drupal 
etc are certainly the way to go.

However it doesn't take much googling to find that these solutions tend 
to degrade in badly in performance terms under heavy load.

...and so would badly written Java.


> I don't think in my 25 years of experience I have ever seen such a 
> promising technology as Java been so mismanged by its owner leading some 
> to call Java the Cobol of our generation.

I strongly agree. However we have to take some of the blame - the 
language creators of PHP didn't create these great applications, end 
users did.

Broadly speaking, PHP seems to have always been obsessed with web sites, 
whereas Java seemed obsessed with the Enterprise. Java wins in the 
enterprise, but loses on the web. ... currently.


I'm building a Java-based CMS. I mean a CMS for creating web sites, not 
just portals, and with a very simple user interface so your customers 
really CAN use it, not like most of the CMSs out there (Plone excluded) 
that pretend that you can offload content maintenance to your Newbie 
clients but in reality you simply cannot. The (free) Java CMSs out there 
are so over complicated and bloated, and typically use ridiculous 
Javascript mechanisms that break in browsers (try an IE5 MacOS 8.5 client).

Yes it will use WebMacro but not hardcoded to, that would sadly be a bad 
idea.

ETA? "Soon"? ;-)

The thing is WM really needs some major improvements to make it more 
embeddable. I hinted at these with my Ignition project but nobody seemed 
to take it seriously.

WebMacro is very hard to embed nicely. For example, what if I want to 
add directives to WebMacro at runtime, dynamically based on installed 
plugins in my CMS?

I want my CMS to be able add directives like #link at runtime, 
preferably without throwing away a WM instance and reconfiguring it from 
Properties (cluuuuuuunky!)

Death to the Broker! Kill kill!

:)

Cheers



-- 
Marc Palmer
Managing Director, AnyWare Ltd.

Re: [WebMacro-user] Performance of WM

[Lane S. <la...@op...>]

Marc Palmer wrote:

> Dominik wrote:
>
>> Hy,
>> i searched the wiki but didn't find any information about the 
>> performance of
>> webmacro. How is it compared to a plain-output (via println()) 
>> servlet? And,
>> perhaps somebody knows, how is it compared to a php script with a
>> template-engine like smarty or other.
>
>
> I don't believe we have any stats but:

not true. run ant test and then look at the working directory :).

>
> 1. println() - will be faster but probably only for trivial cases 
> unless you write some really complicated println() code, because WM 
> has lots of caching and so on and offers much more functionality so 
> you can't really compare this.
>
> 2. PHP - having used PHP I am pretty sure it will be quite a bit 
> slower, as PHP as I understand it is always interpreted, and Java code 
> is typically running with JIT compilation. The difference between WM 
> and PHP may be less if the PHP templating caches an abstract syntax 
> tree of the template, but I'm not sure they do. It would be very ugly 
> writing something like that in PHP...
>
> PHP is really a "quick fix" language, i.e. for hacking sites together 
> quickly or using existing "Portal" tools like PHP Nuke. Serious things 
> with scalability and performance considerations are much better done 
> in Java, but take a bit longer to develop.

I disagree with this last paragraph. php used properly and with its 
object-oriented support can create superlative applications which are 
"rendering (DHTML, CSS, JS) and database intensive". In other words, 90% 
of the everyday web applications. If you are looking to create a 
content-centric application (articles, feeds, users, shopping, calendar 
and more), you absolutely must run to Mambo. I consider myself an 
average web developer but with Mambo, I created something that everyday 
gains users at the rate of 20-30 per day for a radio station in town ( 
htttp://www.mighty1090.com ). In short, for content-driven applications 
and CMS in general, do not overlook Mambo.

I don't think in my 25 years of experience I have ever seen such a 
promising technology as Java been so mismanged by its owner leading some 
to call Java the Cobol of our generation.

-Lane

>
>

-- 
Lane Sharman
Providing Private and SPAM-Free Email
http://www.opendoors.com
858-755-2868

Re: [WebMacro-user] Performance of WM

[Lane S. <la...@op...>]

Hi Dominik,

I use now a lot of php and other rendering technologies.

I can tell you this: WM is relatively speaking fast. In fact, there is a 
benchmark I run on every build and I remain amazed at how fast it parses 
and renders and evaluates expressions.

Also, there is another factor. The tight integration with the Java 
language means you will be working with Java not some other language. If 
you want to go with Java, then WM is a great scripting companion. Of 
course, I am prejudiced but the claim is still true :).

Lane

Dominik wrote:

>Hy,
>i searched the wiki but didn't find any information about the performance of
>webmacro. How is it compared to a plain-output (via println()) servlet? And,
>perhaps somebody knows, how is it compared to a php script with a
>template-engine like smarty or other.
>
>Thanks
>TO
>
>
>
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-- 
Lane Sharman
Providing Private and SPAM-Free Email
http://www.opendoors.com
858-755-2868

Re: [WebMacro-user] Parsing Properties files

[Lars G. <la...@wo...>]

Hi Marc,

Yes, that is a quick solution. What I am concerned about though is 
performance and caching. If you would load the properties file on each 
request, that seems to be not very efficient. I understand that your 
example was just to illustrate the approach. What I would like to know 
is what is the most efficient way to reuse WM to cache these properties 
files? Should I simply use a broker and load the file using the getUrl() 
methods? What would be your first thought on this?

Thanks,
Lars

Marc Palmer wrote:
> Lars George wrote:
> 
>> Hi Keats,
>>
>>> I actually had a PropertyDirective years ago that did just what you 
>>> are saying, but I've lost track of the code.  (It never got committed 
>>> to the core because nobody expressed interest.)  There is some code 
>>> in the core that parses expressions from the webmacro.properties 
>>> file.  I can point you to that if it is helpful.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any pointer is helpful :)
> 
> 
> Personally, I would just write my own helper class:
> 
> public class MyPropertiesHelper
> {
>     private Properties props;
> 
>     public void load( Object filepath)
>     {
>         FileInputStream fis = ...;
>         props.clear();
>         props.load( fis);
>     }
> 
>     public Object get(Object key)
>     {
>         return props.getProperty(key.toString());
>     }
> 
>     public Object put(Object key, Object value)
>     {
>         return props.setProperty(key.toString(), value.toString());
>     }
> }
> 
> 
> An -new- instance of this can then be put into your context for every 
> request, or you can wrap it in a contexttoolloader/factory so that you 
> automatically get a new instance for every request.
> 
> ...or you add a simple factory that you put into the context instead:
> 
> public class MyPropertiesFactory
> {
>      public MyPropertiesHelper newInstance(Object filename)
>      {
>           MyPropertiesHelper h = new MyPropertiesHelper();
>           h.load(filename);
>           return h;
>      }
> }
> 
> Cheers
> 

Re: [WebMacro-user] Performance of WM

[Marc P. <ma...@an...>]

Dominik wrote:
> Hy,
> i searched the wiki but didn't find any information about the performance of
> webmacro. How is it compared to a plain-output (via println()) servlet? And,
> perhaps somebody knows, how is it compared to a php script with a
> template-engine like smarty or other.

I don't believe we have any stats but:

1. println() - will be faster but probably only for trivial cases unless 
you write some really complicated println() code, because WM has lots of 
caching and so on and offers much more functionality so you can't really 
compare this.

2. PHP - having used PHP I am pretty sure it will be quite a bit slower, 
as PHP as I understand it is always interpreted, and Java code is 
typically running with JIT compilation. The difference between WM and 
PHP may be less if the PHP templating caches an abstract syntax tree of 
the template, but I'm not sure they do. It would be very ugly writing 
something like that in PHP...

PHP is really a "quick fix" language, i.e. for hacking sites together 
quickly or using existing "Portal" tools like PHP Nuke. Serious things 
with scalability and performance considerations are much better done in 
Java, but take a bit longer to develop.


-- 
Marc Palmer    wj...@wa...
			
Wangjammers - Java, J2ME and Web Consultants
   ~ http://www.wangjammers.org/

[WebMacro-user] Performance of WM

[Dominik <do...@db...>]

Hy,
i searched the wiki but didn't find any information about the performance of
webmacro. How is it compared to a plain-output (via println()) servlet? And,
perhaps somebody knows, how is it compared to a php script with a
template-engine like smarty or other.

Thanks
TO

Re: [WebMacro-user] Parsing Properties files

[Marc P. <ma...@an...>]

Lars George wrote:
> Hi Keats,
> 
>> I actually had a PropertyDirective years ago that did just what you 
>> are saying, but I've lost track of the code.  (It never got committed 
>> to the core because nobody expressed interest.)  There is some code in 
>> the core that parses expressions from the webmacro.properties file.  I 
>> can point you to that if it is helpful.
> 
> 
> Any pointer is helpful :)

Personally, I would just write my own helper class:

public class MyPropertiesHelper
{
     private Properties props;

     public void load( Object filepath)
     {
         FileInputStream fis = ...;
         props.clear();
         props.load( fis);
     }

     public Object get(Object key)
     {
         return props.getProperty(key.toString());
     }

     public Object put(Object key, Object value)
     {
         return props.setProperty(key.toString(), value.toString());
     }
}


An -new- instance of this can then be put into your context for every 
request, or you can wrap it in a contexttoolloader/factory so that you 
automatically get a new instance for every request.

...or you add a simple factory that you put into the context instead:

public class MyPropertiesFactory
{
      public MyPropertiesHelper newInstance(Object filename)
      {
           MyPropertiesHelper h = new MyPropertiesHelper();
           h.load(filename);
           return h;
      }
}

Cheers

-- 
Marc Palmer    wj...@wa...
			
Wangjammers - Java, J2ME and Web Consultants
   ~ http://www.wangjammers.org/

Re: [WebMacro-user] Parsing Properties files

[Keats K. <ke...@xa...>]

 > What do you suggest how we go from here?

If you're in a hurry, give it a shot yourself.  You can look at a simple 
directive, like SetblockDirective, for a starting point and I can give 
you assistance with specific questions.

If you're not in a hurry, I'll can crank out something for you, but it 
may take a week or two.  I'm pretty swamped at the moment.

Keats

Lars George wrote:

> Hi Keats,
>
>> I actually had a PropertyDirective years ago that did just what you 
>> are saying, but I've lost track of the code.  (It never got committed 
>> to the core because nobody expressed interest.)  There is some code 
>> in the core that parses expressions from the webmacro.properties 
>> file.  I can point you to that if it is helpful.
>
>
> Any pointer is helpful :)
>
>> As I recall, all I did was parse the properties as a template and 
>> then pipe the results into a properties object via the load() method.
>
>
> Hmm, I did not even consider parsing the file, but you are right, that 
> is a good thing.
>
>> I could probably resurrect this code for you if that would meet your 
>> needs.
>
>
> Either or, the code would be great, but also what you propose below is 
> making sense. Especially with the include in between, that would 
> basically do what I need easily but has even more power for other 
> uses. I am all for it.
>
>> Of course you could the #include with this as well:
>>
>> #properties $user {
>>  #include "user.properties"
>> ...
>
>
> What do you suggest how we go from here?
>
> Thanks,
> Lars
>

Re: [WebMacro-user] Parsing Properties files

[Lars G. <la...@wo...>]

Hi Keats,

> I actually had a PropertyDirective years ago that did just what you are 
> saying, but I've lost track of the code.  (It never got committed to the 
> core because nobody expressed interest.)  There is some code in the core 
> that parses expressions from the webmacro.properties file.  I can point 
> you to that if it is helpful.

Any pointer is helpful :)

> As I recall, all I did was parse the properties as a template and then 
> pipe the results into a properties object via the load() method.

Hmm, I did not even consider parsing the file, but you are right, that 
is a good thing.

> I could probably resurrect this code for you if that would meet your needs.

Either or, the code would be great, but also what you propose below is 
making sense. Especially with the include in between, that would 
basically do what I need easily but has even more power for other uses. 
I am all for it.

> Of course you could the #include with this as well:
> 
> #properties $user {
>  #include "user.properties"
> ...

What do you suggest how we go from here?

Thanks,
Lars

Re: [WebMacro-user] Parsing Properties files

[Keats K. <ke...@xa...>]

I actually had a PropertyDirective years ago that did just what you are 
saying, but I've lost track of the code.  (It never got committed to the 
core because nobody expressed interest.)  There is some code in the core 
that parses expressions from the webmacro.properties file.  I can point 
you to that if it is helpful. 

As I recall, all I did was parse the properties as a template and then 
pipe the results into a properties object via the load() method.

I could probably resurrect this code for you if that would meet your needs.

Actually, I've been toying with a more generic #property directive which 
could set the properties on any object.  E.g.,

#properties $user {
   Name: $UserName
   Address: $UserAddress
   Date: $Today
}

It could have options like:

#properties $user create class="com.xyz.accounts.User" { ...

which would be equivalent to:

#bean $user="com.xyz.accounts.User"
#set $user.Name = $UserName
#set $user.Address = $UserAddress
#set $user.Date = $Today

If you don't specifiy a class, it would just default to HashMap or 
something.

Of course you could the #include with this as well:

#properties $user {
  #include "user.properties"
...

Cheers.

Keats



Lars George wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Has someone of you written a parser for standard Java properties 
> files, ie. so we can use .properties files to read in as templates?
>
> I am interested to get a i18n framework going where the actual content 
> is stored in properties files for easy localization. But I do not want 
> to use the ResourceBundle framework of Java, which is clunky and a bit 
> cumbersome. I rather would like to include those .properties directly 
> into a template and have WebMacro parse it into context variables. For 
> example:
>
> hello.wm:
> ---------
>
> #include "/res/$languagecode/hello.properties"
>
> Hello $msg1!
>
> hello.properties:
> -----------------
> msg1=World
>
>
> This is very simple example, this could be extended to have the 
> properties include figure out what is available and fall back to 
> default file as performed by the ResourceBundle class, eg.
>
> #include-res "res/hello.properties" $languagecode
>
> Assume $languagecode="FR", then it would try to load and parse 
> hello_fr.properties, if that is missing it is using hello.properties.
>
> The advantage is to rely on Webmacro for caching and reloads, while 
> the ResourceBundle cannot reload files ones they are loaded.
>
> A parser could simply use a Properties class to read the file and add 
> it to the context, even as a hashmap, so access would be like this
>
> $hello.msg1
>
> or the include directive could allow for a name that is given to the 
> hashmap.
>
> My main question is what to watch out for writing my own directive. 
> Especially in terms of efficiency and caching.
>
> Any pointers?
>
> Thanks,
> Lars

[WebMacro-user] Parsing Properties files

[Lars G. <la...@wo...>]

Hi,

Has someone of you written a parser for standard Java properties files, 
ie. so we can use .properties files to read in as templates?

I am interested to get a i18n framework going where the actual content 
is stored in properties files for easy localization. But I do not want 
to use the ResourceBundle framework of Java, which is clunky and a bit 
cumbersome. I rather would like to include those .properties directly 
into a template and have WebMacro parse it into context variables. For 
example:

hello.wm:
---------

#include "/res/$languagecode/hello.properties"

Hello $msg1!

hello.properties:
-----------------
msg1=World


This is very simple example, this could be extended to have the 
properties include figure out what is available and fall back to default 
file as performed by the ResourceBundle class, eg.

#include-res "res/hello.properties" $languagecode

Assume $languagecode="FR", then it would try to load and parse 
hello_fr.properties, if that is missing it is using hello.properties.

The advantage is to rely on Webmacro for caching and reloads, while the 
ResourceBundle cannot reload files ones they are loaded.

A parser could simply use a Properties class to read the file and add it 
to the context, even as a hashmap, so access would be like this

$hello.msg1

or the include directive could allow for a name that is given to the 
hashmap.

My main question is what to watch out for writing my own directive. 
Especially in terms of efficiency and caching.

Any pointers?

Thanks,
Lars

RE: [WebMacro-user] 2.0 (2.1?) release update...

[Marc P. <ma...@an...>]

> Go Marc go! And others...

Thanks. I've mentioned the forthcoming WebMacro and JSP stuff on a Spring
forum today. Raising awareness :)

RE: [WebMacro-user] 2.0 (2.1?) release update...

[Mike W. - de B. <M.W...@tr...>]

Go Marc go! And others...

I have to little experience & time to help you all building WM (except for
the small adjustments send earlier).

But I really like the idea's and solutions described below.

Greetings Mike

Don't let WM <code>die;</code>


PS. If I find the time I will try to install the latest WM version on my PC.


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: web...@li...
[mailto:web...@li...] Namens Marc Palmer
Verzonden: donderdag 14 juli 2005 11:02
Aan: web...@li...
Onderwerp: [WebMacro-user] 2.0 (2.1?) release update...


Guys,

FYI I have downloaded, built and used the latest WebMacro in a basic test
app and nothing fundamental seems broken. Has anybody else done this?

A quick update on the JSP and WM stuff that I have done but is not
comitted yet because of the pending release, which I think is 2.0 :) and
this new stuff should go in 2.1:

* I have modified my local WM build to include an org.webmacro.adapters
package, and beneath this are "jsp" and "spring" packages. 

* I have modified the build.xml to build everything (requires addition
jsp-api.jar and spring.jar in /lib, which I have done) but webmacro.jar
produced does not contain these adapters, they are put into a new
webmacro-adapters.jar

* The JSP code is pending some refinements I'm discussing with Keats. If
anybody on the dev list has an interest in this we can discuss it there.
So shout if you care! It's important to remember that this can does not
have to be our final iteration of this by any means.

* The Spring MVC code is in and working, in that you can use WebMacro as a
Spring view. I suppose we need to get an example in there, but I'm not so
sure because it's useless to you unless you use Spring already, and if you
use Spring already there's nothing new to learn. A little bit of docs on
how to use config the WebMacroViewResolver in the Spring bean config will
be needed though, which I will of course supply.

* I have one issue to look into with the Spring stuff which is how to ship
the utility macros in spring.wm inside the webmacro-adapters.jar but have
it easily accessible on the template path to WM templates used by the
spring view. Anybody have any clues? In my opinion this is another area
where the limitations of the broker/WM configuration mechanisms come to
haunt us. 


I intend to blog the info about the new Spring/JSP stuff, and to blog the
release of 2.0 when it is done. We need to raise WM's profile again as the
superior templating language that it is!

For 3.0 I firmly believe that what we need to do is:

* Refactor the whole Broker mechanism in favour of a standard
runtime-configurable bean-based approach. This will mean that WM can be
configured from "Inversion of Control" / "Dependency Injection" bean
containers such as Spring and Pico. It will also make WM -much- easier to
use and configure. i.e. we should be able to do something like:

   WMConfig config = new WMConfig();
   config.getTemplateLoaders().add( myCachingTemplateLoader);
   config.getContextToolFactories().add( myFactory);

* Remove any and all singleton classes in favour of configurable bean
instances retrieved from a configuration object.

* Develop and ship more helpers and macros, including a wrapper (if
necessary) for the large number of velocity tools / VelociMacros out there
if possible. Why not leverage their hard work :)

Kind regards,
Marc



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[WebMacro-user] Any WM users blog?

[Marc P. <ma...@an...>]

Are there any WM users out there with their own blogs?

If so let me know so I can link to you.

How easy would it be for us to get RSS fees into pages on the WM Wiki
Lane/Eric? I have XML parser helper classes plus macros for rendering RSS
feeds, so if you can modify the config of the existing WM Wiki instance to
include these we should be able to do this quite easily - i.e. modify the
top page template of the WM Wiki to includ a side panel for blog items.

It would be nice if we could get the URIs of the RSS feeds from a wiki
page, so we could easily update the list.

This kind of thing is -vital- for retaining/building the WM community and
for spreading the word - especially as the WM Wiki docs are quite out of
date / disorganised etc.

[WebMacro-user] 2.0 (2.1?) release update...

[Marc P. <ma...@an...>]

Guys,

FYI I have downloaded, built and used the latest WebMacro in a basic test
app and nothing fundamental seems broken. Has anybody else done this?

A quick update on the JSP and WM stuff that I have done but is not
comitted yet because of the pending release, which I think is 2.0 :) and
this new stuff should go in 2.1:

* I have modified my local WM build to include an org.webmacro.adapters
package, and beneath this are "jsp" and "spring" packages. 

* I have modified the build.xml to build everything (requires addition
jsp-api.jar and spring.jar in /lib, which I have done) but webmacro.jar
produced does not contain these adapters, they are put into a new
webmacro-adapters.jar

* The JSP code is pending some refinements I'm discussing with Keats. If
anybody on the dev list has an interest in this we can discuss it there.
So shout if you care! It's important to remember that this can does not
have to be our final iteration of this by any means.

* The Spring MVC code is in and working, in that you can use WebMacro as a
Spring view. I suppose we need to get an example in there, but I'm not so
sure because it's useless to you unless you use Spring already, and if you
use Spring already there's nothing new to learn. A little bit of docs on
how to use config the WebMacroViewResolver in the Spring bean config will
be needed though, which I will of course supply.

* I have one issue to look into with the Spring stuff which is how to ship
the utility macros in spring.wm inside the webmacro-adapters.jar but have
it easily accessible on the template path to WM templates used by the
spring view. Anybody have any clues? In my opinion this is another area
where the limitations of the broker/WM configuration mechanisms come to
haunt us. 


I intend to blog the info about the new Spring/JSP stuff, and to blog the
release of 2.0 when it is done. We need to raise WM's profile again as the
superior templating language that it is!

For 3.0 I firmly believe that what we need to do is:

* Refactor the whole Broker mechanism in favour of a standard
runtime-configurable bean-based approach. This will mean that WM can be
configured from "Inversion of Control" / "Dependency Injection" bean
containers such as Spring and Pico. It will also make WM -much- easier to
use and configure. i.e. we should be able to do something like:

   WMConfig config = new WMConfig();
   config.getTemplateLoaders().add( myCachingTemplateLoader);
   config.getContextToolFactories().add( myFactory);

* Remove any and all singleton classes in favour of configurable bean
instances retrieved from a configuration object.

* Develop and ship more helpers and macros, including a wrapper (if
necessary) for the large number of velocity tools / VelociMacros out there
if possible. Why not leverage their hard work :)

Kind regards,
Marc

Re: [WebMacro-user] Messages with Webmacro

[Keats K. <ke...@ea...>]

There are many ways to handle this situation, but throwing an exception is
not one I would recommend.  Typically the Servlet just puts some error info
into the context and then the template checks for the error info and
displays a message to the user, e.g.,

// handler code in Servlet
...
if (!valid(request)) {
   context.put("ErrorMsg", getLocalizedMsg(INVALID_DATA));
   // reload form with error message
   template = formTemplate;
}
else
{ // display verification page to user
   template = verifyTemplate;
}
...

## template
...
<form ...
#if ($ErrorMsg) {
  <p class="ErrorText">$ErrorMsg</p>
}
...
#if ($Form.someName){
  #set $val = $HTMLEscape($Form.someName)
}
#else {
  #set $val = ""
}
<input name="someName" type="TEXT"
     value="$val" />
...
</form>
...

Hope this helps.

Keats

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dominik" <do...@db...>
To: <web...@li...>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 7:29 PM
Subject: [WebMacro-user] Messages with Webmacro


> Hy,
> I'm using Webmacro to develop a small Webapp. No I ran into problems
> because
> I need a function to call, if I want to post a Message.
> For example, take a guestbook-webapp: When you submit the entry-form the
> app
> checks whether all entered data is ok, when it is ok, then a page with the
> data is displayed (via a template). But, when the data is not wellformed
> then there should be a message telling the user to go back and refill the
> page. As a solution I found out that I could throw a HandlerException, but
> I
> want the message to be shown in my own layout. The Handler-Exception also
> produces another Problem:
> On every Page-Request the app gets a database-connection from a
> connection-pool and puts it back on the very and of each handler-call.
> But,
> when I throw a Handler-Exception the end of the handler-call is never
> reached so the connection isn't put back into the pool.
>
> Is there a solution?
>
> Thanks
> Dominik
>
>
>
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[WebMacro-user] Messages with Webmacro

[Dominik <do...@db...>]

Hy,
I'm using Webmacro to develop a small Webapp. No I ran into problems because
I need a function to call, if I want to post a Message. 
For example, take a guestbook-webapp: When you submit the entry-form the app
checks whether all entered data is ok, when it is ok, then a page with the
data is displayed (via a template). But, when the data is not wellformed
then there should be a message telling the user to go back and refill the
page. As a solution I found out that I could throw a HandlerException, but I
want the message to be shown in my own layout. The Handler-Exception also
produces another Problem:
On every Page-Request the app gets a database-connection from a
connection-pool and puts it back on the very and of each handler-call. But,
when I throw a Handler-Exception the end of the handler-call is never
reached so the connection isn't put back into the pool.

Is there a solution?

Thanks
Dominik

Re: [WebMacro-user] WebMacro 2.1 Is Scheduled For Release July 10

[<Web...@St...>]

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, Lane Sharman wrote:

| Hi Endre,
|=20
| Someone suggested a while back that the official release be 2.1 because=
 2.0b
| had hung around so long.

The suggestion, by Marc, was that a quickish 2.1 could follow the 2.0 wit=
h=20
the Spring and JSP stuff included. The body of that mail follows:

------------------------------

Endre St=F8lsvik wrote:
> /me still eagerly awaiting 2.0

Nope... but it's blocking on me getting the Spring and JSP stuff into it,=
=20
which hasn't been possible because of work pressures. I'm on away for a=20
week now, but when I'm back I will endeavour to get this stuff in ASAP.

You could always put out 2.0 RC2 / full release with the minor new Broker=
=20
changes that I committed and the JDK 1.5 compatibility, and we could roll=
=20
a 2.1 with the Spring and JSP stuff in.

Cheers
---
Marc Palmer    wj...@wa...


------------------------------

I find it -really really bad- if the -next- release is called 2.1. There=20
have never been a release of The New Major Version 2.0, and then one=20
suddenly releases a MINOR version of that MAJOR version, called 2.1.

The next release should be called 2.0, and it should preferrably come out=
=20
yesteryear.

Endre.

Re: [WebMacro-user] WebMacro 2.1 Is Scheduled For Release July 10

[Lane S. <la...@op...>]

Hi Endre,

Someone suggested a while back that the official release be 2.1 because 
2.0b had hung around so long.

It is not religion for me at this point.

Lane

Endre Stølsvik wrote:

>On Mon, 4 Jul 2005, Lane Sharman wrote:
>
>| Greetings:
>| 
>| I have spent the good part of a day preparing WebMacro for a final 2.1
>| release. My plan is to release WM against JDK 1.5 and servlet spec 2.4 and use
>| the latest version of tomcat (5.5) as a proof of its web compatibility. In
>| this manner, it will stay current for a year or so.
>
>Why is this called 2.1???????
>
>Where did 2.0 go???
>
>Endre.
>
>
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>

-- 
Lane Sharman
Providing Private and SPAM-Free Email
http://www.opendoors.com
858-755-2868

Re: [WebMacro-user] WebMacro 2.1 Is Scheduled For Release July 10

[Marc P. <ma...@an...>]

-----Original Message-----
From: Lane Sharman <la...@op...>
To: web...@li...
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:53:27 -0700
Subject: [WebMacro-user] WebMacro 2.1 Is Scheduled For Release July 10

> Greetings:
> 
> I have spent the good part of a day preparing WebMacro for a final 2.1 
> release. My plan is to release WM against JDK 1.5 and servlet spec 2.4 
> and use the latest version of tomcat (5.5) as a proof of its web 
> compatibility. In this manner, it will stay current for a year or so.

Thanks for all your effort on this Lane, I at least really appreciate it!

I will try to get the HEAD today/tomorrow and build it locally. 

For the next ver with Spring + JSP stuff in it (which IS coming, I had to
spend precious spare hours getting my laptop running linux and I'm still
getting my dev tools back together) I will also add EMMA code coverage to
the WM build process unless there are any objections.

Of course if WM becomes more active again we could get all the great tools
like Clover and Jira for free :-)

Oh... and free IDEA licenses to all team members :)

> Javadoc generation has several cosmetic errors; someone with an hour or
> two could clean this up this week. Also, eclipse shows a number of 
> warnings in the code. Some I corrected; others I let stand because 
> introspection functions DO read local variables.

I'll have a peak if I can and tackle some.
 
> At this point, it is time to put to rest release 2.1. Do not introduce 
> any new functionality into the core. Please download the CVS Head and 
> verify the above looks good to you. If you are a comitter, please make 
> any changes along the guidelines above.

OK, I hear you.

Thanks again Lane, you're a star.

 

Re: [WebMacro-user] WebMacro 2.1 Is Scheduled For Release July 10

[<Web...@St...>]

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005, Lane Sharman wrote:

| Greetings:
| 
| I have spent the good part of a day preparing WebMacro for a final 2.1
| release. My plan is to release WM against JDK 1.5 and servlet spec 2.4 and use
| the latest version of tomcat (5.5) as a proof of its web compatibility. In
| this manner, it will stay current for a year or so.

Why is this called 2.1???????

Where did 2.0 go???

Endre.

[WebMacro-user] WebMacro 2.1 Is Scheduled For Release July 10

[Lane S. <la...@op...>]

Greetings:

I have spent the good part of a day preparing WebMacro for a final 2.1 
release. My plan is to release WM against JDK 1.5 and servlet spec 2.4 
and use the latest version of tomcat (5.5) as a proof of its web 
compatibility. In this manner, it will stay current for a year or so.

I spent a great deal of time on the docs, the examples/, and the 
install. The examples folder now has a web.xml and a build.xml. "ant 
web" will deploy the compile/copy/deploy the examples/ directory to 
$web.home (user most modify the prop) in the build script.

I have recompiled the entire set of sources and run the full suite of 
unit tests. All unit tests complete without error.

Javadoc generation has several cosmetic errors; someone with an hour or 
two could clean this up this week. Also, eclipse shows a number of 
warnings in the code. Some I corrected; others I let stand because 
introspection functions DO read local variables.

At this point, it is time to put to rest release 2.1. Do not introduce 
any new functionality into the core. Please download the CVS Head and 
verify the above looks good to you. If you are a comitter, please make 
any changes along the guidelines above.

yours,

-- 
Lane Sharman

[WebMacro-user] Release 2.1 Final

[Lane S. <la...@op...>]

Greetings,

I am going over the docs and the install process and in general 
completing a QA of WM.

I really think we should call a wrap on release 2 of WM.

With any future endeavors, they can be folded into a subsequent release 
of WM or added to the contrib section.

I attended a presentation on Velocity and I can assure you that WM 
remains a better language to write template scripts in.

Kindest,

-- 

Lane Sharman
Providing Private and SPAM-Free Email
http://www.opendoors.com
858-755-2868