Re: [webmin-l] Ramblings after reviewing the pole

[Unknown Q. <web...@un...>]

further to John Hinton's original post and request for info about what other 
people do with Webmin ......

i've been using Webmin for just over 2 years to host about 400 domains i've 
set-up with Virtualmin (move away from Ensim panel after finding too many 
restrictions)

i'm a web designer - not an engineer - and i only have the faintest grasp of 
how to do a few things at the command line

i find Virtualmin does most of what i want and Webmin deals with other 
things like MySQL & Bind

i run each domain on 2 different servers in 2 different data centres via a 
failover system (set-up by somebody else that really knew what they were 
doing)

i sell a service to my customers that allows then to deal with their own 
business whilst we deal with their websites updates and e-mail settings

the only 2 things i'd like my customers to be able to do easily are

1 = set-up an out-of office / vacation autoresponder

2 = be able to temporarily send a *copy* of their e-mails to somebody else 
whilst they are on holiday

at the moment i use WebMail to do No. 1 - but even then customers are 
frightened by it's complexity!!!

the last thing i want is for my customers to go anywhere near Virtualmin as 
they would just do too much damage too easily - they don't even get FTP 
access from us

i not sure if Usermin with do either or both of these for me, because last 
time i looked at it the vacation programme kept clashing with SquirrelMail 
(previous servers) so i turned it off

what i'd really like from Webmin / Virtualmin / Usermin is an idiots' 
set-by-step guide to every component *~*

yes i've bought & read (many times) the brown Webmin book - each time i've 
either understood or confused myself a little bit more :-)

the info about Virtualmin on http://www.webmin.com/index8.html doesn't 
really give a newbie much hope of configuring the system 1st time - the 
screen shots and options are too many versions ago

i'd go for Virtualmin Pro but it doesn't do Debian yet

*~* Barry Caplan says in the next posting to the effect that Cobalt didn't 
quite get its easy / idiots guides in place even though they identified it 
as a major requirement

it would be great if OpenCountry / Virtualmin could produce an up-to-date 
step-by-step guide for each function

the reoccurring requests to this list for help setting up mail accounts / 
aliases must surely have made somebody realise that there is a need for a 
good getting started / out of the box instruction set for the common server 
requirements

i realise that Jamie & Joe have forgotten more that i could even want to 
learn about the whole project - but if you want me to give you an idiots 
(non-Unix-expert) view as to how easy / complicated your help files are i'd 
be more that willing to help out

what i like about the whole project is that it allows me to choose and use 
the functionality that i require and doesn't force me to do it some control 
panel's way - keep up the great work guys

Regards

Martyn




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamie Cameron" <jca...@we...>
To: <web...@li...>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [webmin-l] Ramblings after reviewing the pole


> On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 15:59, John Hinton wrote:
>> Jamie Cameron wrote:
>>
>> >Hmm .. it sounds like I need to add some popup help to that module. To
>> >be honest, I have trouble thinking from the perspective of a
>> >non-Unix-expert :)
>> >
>> I just had to leave that comment there. ;) Yeah, you only have to deal 
>> with us dumb sysadmins that can't find what's right in front of them in 
>> the Webmin interface! We on the other hand, have to deal with the public 
>> who for the most part doesn't know the difference between POP, alias, 
>> incoming mail server and outgoing mail server.. and thinks 'email client' 
>> is a command not a program. "OK, I'll email that client of mine right 
>> away!"
>
> Yeah, that is part of the problem .. most of the webmin users I deal
> with are at least moderately knowledgeable sysadmins, so it is hard for
> me to get a feel for what non-computer types want (no offence meant to
> them :-)
>
>> Actually though, that is the bottom line. No pun intended.
>>
>> And, in all fairness, I would really like very much to hear the
>> reactions to my original post by other sysadmins using Webmin. I am in a
>> unique niche myself which may be enough unlike what others are doing so
>> that there is no justification to spend time on my wishes. Our clients
>> are hosting clients, predominantly in the bed and breakfast industy.
>> This means they are business owners, in a business that requires a high
>> degree of specialty knowledge and many simply don't have the time to
>> become proficient on computers. At the same time, bookings run at about
>> 80% directly from the internet with some reporting over 80% from online
>> booking engines. Email is as important as water and electricity to these
>> folks and equates to the person behind the cash register at a store.
>> Many of them can make french toast to die for, or make the army turn
>> green with envy when they bounce a dime off a properly made bed sheet..
>> but computers? So, yeah, I have to step back to view my ideas about 'how
>> stuff should be', as I'm sure my opinions are somewhat biased by my
>> clients as well. So, really, I do hope others will chime in with yes or
>> no, that would help or not.
>>
>> Again, with regards to Webmin, yeah, some additional help pop ups would
>> be great, but I really don't see any of my users knowing what the heck
>> to do within the Apache module. Well, I actually might have one, but he
>> was a sysadmin in the past and got burned out. :) Hmm... maybe even two
>> now that I think more.
>
> It may be best to simply not let them have access to the Apache module
> at all, as 99% of users won't need to configure their own Apache
> settings. In a virtual hosting environment, all most users need is the
> ability to edit mailboxes and aliases, both of which can be done through
> Virtualmin .. so pretty much all of the other modules can be turned off.
>
> - Jamie
>
>
>
>
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