Re: [webmin-l] Ramblings after reviewing the pole

[John H. <web...@ew...>]

Jamie Cameron wrote:

>Hmm .. it sounds like I need to add some popup help to that module. To
>be honest, I have trouble thinking from the perspective of a
>non-Unix-expert :)
>
I just had to leave that comment there. ;) Yeah, you only have to deal with us dumb sysadmins that can't find what's right in front of them in the Webmin interface! We on the other hand, have to deal with the public who for the most part doesn't know the difference between POP, alias, incoming mail server and outgoing mail server.. and thinks 'email client' is a command not a program. "OK, I'll email that client of mine right away!"

Actually though, that is the bottom line. No pun intended.

And, in all fairness, I would really like very much to hear the 
reactions to my original post by other sysadmins using Webmin. I am in a 
unique niche myself which may be enough unlike what others are doing so 
that there is no justification to spend time on my wishes. Our clients 
are hosting clients, predominantly in the bed and breakfast industy. 
This means they are business owners, in a business that requires a high 
degree of specialty knowledge and many simply don't have the time to 
become proficient on computers. At the same time, bookings run at about 
80% directly from the internet with some reporting over 80% from online 
booking engines. Email is as important as water and electricity to these 
folks and equates to the person behind the cash register at a store. 
Many of them can make french toast to die for, or make the army turn 
green with envy when they bounce a dime off a properly made bed sheet.. 
but computers? So, yeah, I have to step back to view my ideas about 'how 
stuff should be', as I'm sure my opinions are somewhat biased by my 
clients as well. So, really, I do hope others will chime in with yes or 
no, that would help or not.

Again, with regards to Webmin, yeah, some additional help pop ups would 
be great, but I really don't see any of my users knowing what the heck 
to do within the Apache module. Well, I actually might have one, but he 
was a sysadmin in the past and got burned out. :) Hmm... maybe even two 
now that I think more.

I've looked at just about every module/package available and don't find 
anything that fully fits, or really even gets pretty close. When I went 
back in to look through Usermin again, I realized it was pretty close. 
Heck I even discovered that https://users_domain_name.com:20000 got them 
in! I never even thought to even try that until today. Now that's pretty 
neat! I don't have to look up which server they're on and give them one 
of my convoluted server names as the domain to visit. Easy for them to 
remember... And it is much easier to tune down Usermin vs. 
Webmin/Virtualmin. What I have left running in Usermin for my users at 
this point is

Change Language (might get used by a few of our clients and it's always 
good to be PC)
Mail Forwarding and Replies
Read Mail (great for clearing out that email that causes "My Outlook is 
stuck!" syndrone. Although a view oldest mail first switch would be 
nice. Yeah, the go to page ### works, but then an email comes in and 
interrupts the process and you're back on page one unless you figure out 
and then remember to use your back button)
Scheduled Emails (nothing like 'Elvis' sending you a message each month 
on the day sales tax is due.. or better yet, on your anniversary! This 
should bring back some memories for some of you old 'nixers!)
SpamAssassin Mail Filter (probably not a good idea.. but..... I'm trying 
it to find out.. another of those with no help and over the heads of 
most end users)
MySQL Database (well... who knows.. but for the ones that have it.. at 
least they can look at what they've created)
Disk Quotas (OH yeah.. hope they look at this... often!)
System Documentation (betcha none of them ever read any of this but you 
can't blame me for trying)

What is missing...
Add/edit/delete a POP account
Add/edit/delete an Alias

Now I know those are going to be tough without some tie back into 
Webmin/Virtualmin to get them into their virtual domain.. get the 
account tied to the domain name and still exist within the limits set in 
Virtualmin, like number of POP accounts and so forth. But what the 
heck.. I can wish!!! It's almost Christmas isn't it?

And....
And the dumbed down interface that 'anyone can understand' or at least 
almost anyone.
The hardest task is to keep it simple... or make it simple. Many times 
I've started a simple easy to navigate website and it grew.. and then it 
became complex.. and it was no problem at all to navigate... but only 
for those that built the darned thing.. Somewhere along the line the new 
visitor's view became confusing, they were lost and left.. This scenario 
seems to be the natural order.. and one has to interrupt the natural 
order to get it back to a simple and easy to follow flow.

So, come on you others on the list... What's your thoughts on what I've 
said? Is there reasonable need for these things or am I just off in left 
field here? I can take it.. I am left handed even. Am I the only one out 
there that would like to have these tools?

Thanks to both Paul and Jamie for your open minded attitudes.

Best,
John Hinton