Re: [webmin-l] Virtualmin Deinstall/Install losing configuration

[Joe C. <jo...@sw...>]

Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
> Joe Cooper wrote:
> 
>> Hey Roger,
>>
>> I know it's too late for you in this case, but I'd like to chime in 
>> here to state emphatically that one should /never/ uninstall/reinstall 
>> a previously working piece of server software that has be configured 
>> for your environment in order to try to fix a problem with that 
>> software (any problem).  Something like Webmin has dozens of 
>> configuration files that will be removed during the uninstallation 
>> process, and sometimes their removal can be very uncomfortable... 
> 
> Most software products that require configuration files, registry 
> settings, etc. exither explcitly ask if you intend to delete the 
> configuration, or remove only the software and leave the configuration.

On a package manager equipped system (i.e. RPM), this decision is up to 
the package manager.  That's not the whole story for Webmin, though. 
Webmins RPM is a bit different than a standard RPM because it has to run 
on many many many platforms and work correctly on all of them....It 
makes a lot of decisions at install (and uninstall) time that most 
packages don't make.  But one thing it (or any other RPM) can't do is 
ask questions.  RPM has a standing law that a package install and 
uninstall must be fully scriptable...and asking a question kills that 
capability.

So, in short, there's no way to ask if the user intends to delete 
configuration files in an RPM uninstall.  There is probably a way to 
make it not delete configuration files, though I'm not sure off-hand 
what it is.  Of course, if that had happened you would have reinstalled 
only to find you had the same configuration problem you had before and 
then you might be complaining because uninstalling didn't actually 
uninstall everything!  ;-)

>> Losing all of that data is a much bigger problem than the very small 
>> problem of not being able to login.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, since we don't use subdomains, child sites or email -- 
> basically, use Virtualmin just as a simple website templating -- it was 
> no big calamity.

Good!  I'm glad to hear it.

>> Beyond that, the solution is definitely not blank passwords.  ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Um, blank passwords ON THE IMPORT.
> 
> The accounts already exist, and we are using Unix authentication.  So 
> the only use for the stored passwords is proper applciaiton to the 
> managed database.  That should be achievable by having the users change 
> their passwords to the current password.

Ah, I see.  Yes, if you're importing them under the control of existing 
users, then all should be fine.  I misunderstood your intention.

> (As for your not usinmg MySQL -- well, sure, I don't use webmail, and 
> for that matter, don't understand why you guys even bothered to include 
> it when there are so many other webmail packages...!)

Integration is a lovely thing.  With Usermin we get common themes, 
common administrative interface, code re-use in a lot of different 
modules, a single set of interface conventions, etc.  A lot of 
useability folks consider consistency to be the single more important 
aspect of ease of use.  So, if every tier of a hosting system is the 
same core software, useability should be much better than if there are 
several different components with different look and feel and different 
usage conventions.  There are a number of very good webmail packages 
available now (many of which weren't so good when Usermin first came 
along), and we'll likely support some of them in some kind of automated 
way for folks who want an alternative, but none of them will ever 
look/feel/behave in the same way as Webmin and Virtualmin and thus will 
always introduce a new level of complexity to the overall system that 
doesn't need to be there.  (BTW-The new Virtualmin-Nuvola theme for 
Usermin makes Usermin look as good as just about any webmail on the 
market...We just need to make sure all of the functionality, which is 
also top-notch, is easy to understand and use.)

Anyway, Usermin webmail is not a second-string part of the system...It's 
going to be getting some pretty big improvements in the next few weeks.