web-erp-developers

[Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Rom P. <ro...@pr...>]

Dear Friends at Web-ERP Developers and Phil Daintree,

 

Recently I sent an email regarding translation to Brazilian Portuguese. I
received a prompt reply from Mr. Phil Daintree about the subject and I
quote:

 

"There is work afoot to make it easier to translate the system such that
when changes are implemented the translation work will not need to be
re-done."

 

I use a CRM system from http://crm-ctt.sourceforge.net/ and it is pretty
good. The way the created the translations system works pretty well. Maybe
we should study some system like that to better understand how to create a
good one. I am a PHP programmer myself, far from an expert, but I can do
some programming. My intentions are to apply this ERP to my family company,
Primor Doces e Caramelos Ltda. (http://www.primor.ind.br
<http://www.primor.ind.br/> ). Something that I don't understand very well
is the Company processes but I am willing to learn. Maybe I can be of more
help. Please let me know.

 

"However, this is some way away. An Italian chap is starting work on this
but we are discussing the best way to proceed. If you join the
web-erp-developers list you can contribute to the discussions."

 

We can to an intermediate solution until we move to a better approach to the
ideal solution to the problem.

 

I do believe that ERP system should move from the hands of big companies
that make it so difficult to buy those systems without wasting a lot of time
and money.

 

I also own a copy of HB++, what is a programming language for palm platforms
and I can help to create applications that would link the both worlds.

 

Again let me know of how I can be of more help.

 

Thank you and Best Regards,

 

Rom Pereira

Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[skaill <sk...@ro...>]

Hi Rom,

I was looking into the same thing with another SourceForge project =
called InfoCentral.  They use the built in gettext facility and the code =
and functions to do it are very understandable.  You may want to check =
that project out.

The main part of the work will be finding every string in the program in =
order to put the gettext() function call around it.

When using the gettext functionality, the language files are a specific =
format and there are tools available to more easily update and maintain =
the translations in the future.

Steve
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Rom Pereira=20
  To: web...@li...=20
  Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:25 PM
  Subject: [Web-erp-developers] Translations


  Dear Friends at Web-ERP Developers and Phil Daintree,

  =20

  Recently I sent an email regarding translation to Brazilian =
Portuguese. I received a prompt reply from Mr. Phil Daintree about the =
subject and I quote:

  =20

  "There is work afoot to make it easier to translate the system such =
that when changes are implemented the translation work will not need to =
be re-done."

  =20

  I use a CRM system from http://crm-ctt.sourceforge.net/ and it is =
pretty good. The way the created the translations system works pretty =
well. Maybe we should study some system like that to better understand =
how to create a good one. I am a PHP programmer myself, far from an =
expert, but I can do some programming. My intentions are to apply this =
ERP to my family company, Primor Doces e Caramelos Ltda. =
(http://www.primor.ind.br). Something that I don't understand very well =
is the Company processes but I am willing to learn. Maybe I can be of =
more help. Please let me know.

  =20

  "However, this is some way away. An Italian chap is starting work on =
this but we are discussing the best way to proceed. If you join the =
web-erp-developers list you can contribute to the discussions."

  =20

  We can to an intermediate solution until we move to a better approach =
to the ideal solution to the problem.

  =20

  I do believe that ERP system should move from the hands of big =
companies that make it so difficult to buy those systems without wasting =
a lot of time and money.

  =20

  I also own a copy of HB++, what is a programming language for palm =
platforms and I can help to create applications that would link the both =
worlds.

  =20

  Again let me know of how I can be of more help.

  =20

  Thank you and Best Regards,

  =20

  Rom Pereira

RE: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Rom P. <ro...@pr...>]

Dear Steve and All,

 

This project uses this very same gettext functionality: http://cattadoc.com/

 

It is interesting, but to create the translated files is not as
straight-forward as with a database interface, as they put in the page:
http://cattadoc.com/translate.html, since it is needed to compile the file
and everything.

 

It would be nice if we could ally the advantages of the gettext
functionality with a database interface straight-forwardness, like an online
tool or something like it, where the user would make the translations in a
database interface and get the result in a gettext binary file.

 

Please let me know your inputs and thank you for your reply,

 

Rom Pereira

 

  _____  

From: web...@li...
[mailto:web...@li...] On Behalf Of skaill
Sent: segunda-feira, 16 de agosto de 2004 13:37
To: web...@li...
Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

 

Hi Rom,

 

I was looking into the same thing with another SourceForge project called
InfoCentral.  They use the built in gettext facility and the code and
functions to do it are very understandable.  You may want to check that
project out.

 

The main part of the work will be finding every string in the program in
order to put the gettext() function call around it.

 

When using the gettext functionality, the language files are a specific
format and there are tools available to more easily update and maintain the
translations in the future.

 

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Rom Pereira <mailto:ro...@pr...>  

To: web...@li... 

Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:25 PM

Subject: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

 

Dear Friends at Web-ERP Developers and Phil Daintree,

 

Recently I sent an email regarding translation to Brazilian Portuguese. I
received a prompt reply from Mr. Phil Daintree about the subject and I
quote:

 

"There is work afoot to make it easier to translate the system such that
when changes are implemented the translation work will not need to be
re-done."

 

I use a CRM system from http://crm-ctt.sourceforge.net/ and it is pretty
good. The way the created the translations system works pretty well. Maybe
we should study some system like that to better understand how to create a
good one. I am a PHP programmer myself, far from an expert, but I can do
some programming. My intentions are to apply this ERP to my family company,
Primor Doces e Caramelos Ltda. (http://www.primor.ind.br
<http://www.primor.ind.br/> ). Something that I don't understand very well
is the Company processes but I am willing to learn. Maybe I can be of more
help. Please let me know.

 

"However, this is some way away. An Italian chap is starting work on this
but we are discussing the best way to proceed. If you join the
web-erp-developers list you can contribute to the discussions."

 

We can to an intermediate solution until we move to a better approach to the
ideal solution to the problem.

 

I do believe that ERP system should move from the hands of big companies
that make it so difficult to buy those systems without wasting a lot of time
and money.

 

I also own a copy of HB++, what is a programming language for palm platforms
and I can help to create applications that would link the both worlds.

 

Again let me know of how I can be of more help.

 

Thank you and Best Regards,

 

Rom Pereira

Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Hani N. <ha...@na...>]

Rom Pereira wrote:

> Dear Steve and All,
>
> This project uses this very same gettext functionality: 
> http://cattadoc.com/
>
> It is interesting, but to create the translated files is not as 
> straight-forward as with a database interface, as they put in the 
> page: http://cattadoc.com/translate.html, since it is needed to 
> compile the file and everything.
>
> It would be nice if we could ally the advantages of the gettext 
> functionality with a database interface straight-forwardness, like an 
> online tool or something like it, where the user would make the 
> translations in a database interface and get the result in a gettext 
> binary file.
>
> Please let me know your inputs and thank you for your reply,
>
> Rom Pereira
>
> * From: * web...@li... 
> [mailto:web...@li...] *On Behalf Of 
> *skaill
> *Sent:* segunda-feira, 16 de agosto de 2004 13:37
> *To:* web...@li...
> *Subject:* Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations
>
> Hi Rom,
>
> I was looking into the same thing with another SourceForge project 
> called InfoCentral. They use the built in gettext facility and the 
> code and functions to do it are very understandable. You may want to 
> check that project out.
>
> The main part of the work will be finding every string in the program 
> in order to put the gettext() function call around it.
>
> When using the gettext functionality, the language files are a 
> specific format and there are tools available to more easily update 
> and maintain the translations in the future.
>
> Steve
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>
>     * From: * Rom Pereira <mailto:ro...@pr...>
>
>     * To: * web...@li...
>     <mailto:web...@li...>
>
>     * Sent: * Monday, August 16, 2004 12:25 PM
>
>     * Subject: * [Web-erp-developers] Translations
>
>     Dear Friends at Web-ERP Developers and Phil Daintree,
>
>     Recently I sent an email regarding translation to Brazilian
>     Portuguese. I received a prompt reply from Mr. Phil Daintree about
>     the subject and I quote:
>
>     “There is work afoot to make it easier to translate the system
>     such that when changes are implemented the translation work will
>     not need to be re-done.”
>
>     I use a CRM system from http://crm-ctt.sourceforge.net/ and it is
>     pretty good. The way the created the translations system works
>     pretty well. Maybe we should study some system like that to better
>     understand how to create a good one. I am a PHP programmer myself,
>     far from an expert, but I can do some programming. My intentions
>     are to apply this ERP to my family company, Primor Doces e
>     Caramelos Ltda. (http://www.primor.ind.br
>     <http://www.primor.ind.br/>). Something that I don’t understand
>     very well is the Company processes but I am willing to learn.
>     Maybe I can be of more help. Please let me know.
>
>     “However, this is some way away. An Italian chap is starting work
>     on this but we are discussing the best way to proceed. If you join
>     the web-erp-developers list you can contribute to the discussions.”
>
>     We can to an intermediate solution until we move to a better
>     approach to the ideal solution to the problem.
>
>     I do believe that ERP system should move from the hands of big
>     companies that make it so difficult to buy those systems without
>     wasting a lot of time and money.
>
>     I also own a copy of HB++, what is a programming language for palm
>     platforms and I can help to create applications that would link
>     the both worlds.
>
>     Again let me know of how I can be of more help.
>
>     Thank you and Best Regards,
>
>     Rom Pereira
>
Hi Rom, I think you will find that .po files (gettext files) are alot 
easier to maintain that a db.
Remember that you will not actually need to touch them, there tones of 
editors that can read them
and compile them. Some of these editors are quite sophisticated, some 
will even give you suggested translations etc..

The thing with gettext is that you will need to call a function, when I 
did the translation code for
OpenAccounting I named the function _() so instead of having

print "Hello"

it becomes

print _("Hello");

Phil was not keen on that at the time since it involved changes to 
almost every file and would
cause too much hassle, that is why Sherif started OpenAccounting. At the 
time I was still involved
with OA it was basically weberp with multi-language support and more 
object-oriented design.
I don't know how they compare now.

Hani

RE: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Rom P. <ro...@pr...>]

Dear Hani and All,

> Hi Rom, I think you will find that .po files (gettext files) are alot 
> easier to maintain that a db.
> Remember that you will not actually need to touch them, there tones of 
> editors that can read them
> and compile them. Some of these editors are quite sophisticated, some 
> will even give you suggested translations etc..

Nice! I just started reading more about the gettext, but appear to be quite
interesting.

I did not make a fair job explaining my idea, what I will try to do now.

There are 3 elements:

<Translation Central Web Site> - referred as [WS]
<Online Translation Interface> - referred as [TI]
<Translation Approval Administration Interface> - referred as [TAA]

The idea is to create a [WS] (let's say in web-erp website) where the person
would edit the [TA] for the desired language. After editing, those
modifications/inclusions would be available for the Admin to approve in the
[TAA]. After approved, the new gettext file would be generated and become
available for everybody to download. Also, when new versions are launched,
the new not translated text stays in English (assuming that English is the
default language). So every language gets created at upgrade/update launch
time. Users from that language that get the update will be alerted about the
text not translated and can translate at real time in the [WS]. In this way
we would have an unified translation effort, where all the users would take
advantage of the recent translations, what is the main problem of most
translations all around, the upgrade/update issue. Every time there is a new
version the translation gets behind. 

> The thing with gettext is that you will need to call a function, when I 
> did the translation code for
> OpenAccounting I named the function _() so instead of having

> print "Hello"

> it becomes

> print _("Hello");

This appears to be good enough for me. I understand that it would look for
"Hello" into the dictionary file, right?

It becomes then a matter of identifying all the spots and modifying them to
adapt to this new system... How many developers are actually in the
development row? If we coordinate, should not be a so impossible task to
accomplish...

> Phil was not keen on that at the time since it involved changes to 
> almost every file and would
> cause too much hassle, that is why Sherif started OpenAccounting. At the 
> time I was still involved
> with OA it was basically weberp with multi-language support and more 
> object-oriented design.
> I don't know how they compare now.

> Hani

Well, please let me know your inputs on the questions above and at the idea,

Thank you and best regards,

Rom Pereira



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Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Daintrees <p.d...@pa...>]

Luca is still away basking in the med sunshine but he preferred the db
approach. Luca was keen to get stuck in on his return and we should wait for
his input. However, I would like us to go ahead with the gettext approach as
Hani who has done this already advises. There is quite a swag of resources
around gettext and it appears almost a defacto standard.

I think it is well known that my objection is to compromising the
readability of the code. Using gettext appears not to damage this too badly.
It might be an idea if those developers who are keen to be a part of this
effort put their hands up and once the approach is clear then divide and
conquor

Phil

Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[skaill <sk...@ro...>]

Sounds good.  I'll be there.  To do the majority of the work we just need to
find who all is involved, split the pages up between us and decide whether
to use gettext() or an alias like _().

From there each of us just finds all the strings in their pages and puts in
the function call.

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daintrees" <p.d...@pa...>
To: <web...@li...>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations


> Luca is still away basking in the med sunshine but he preferred the db
> approach. Luca was keen to get stuck in on his return and we should wait
for
> his input. However, I would like us to go ahead with the gettext approach
as
> Hani who has done this already advises. There is quite a swag of resources
> around gettext and it appears almost a defacto standard.
>
> I think it is well known that my objection is to compromising the
> readability of the code. Using gettext appears not to damage this too
badly.
> It might be an idea if those developers who are keen to be a part of this
> effort put their hands up and once the approach is clear then divide and
> conquor
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media
> 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33
> Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift.
> http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285
> _______________________________________________
> Web-erp-developers mailing list
> Web...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers

Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Daintrees <p.d...@pa...>]

I have been doing a little research ...

http://www.appliedlanguage.com/articles/internationalization_using_php_and_get_text.shtml

actually wrapping all strings in the gettext() function allows the strings
to be extracted automatically - this seems like a huge bonus to me. I think
I will experiment a bit and see if I can get a couple of scripts going - the
only real downer with this is that I only speak english perhaps I could give
my .po file to Rom to translate so we can see how a few scripts work.

It seems pretty straightforward!

Phil


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "skaill" <sk...@ro...>
To: <web...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations


> Sounds good.  I'll be there.  To do the majority of the work we just need
to
> find who all is involved, split the pages up between us and decide whether
> to use gettext() or an alias like _().
>
> >From there each of us just finds all the strings in their pages and puts
in
> the function call.
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Daintrees" <p.d...@pa...>
> To: <web...@li...>
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 4:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations
>
>
> > Luca is still away basking in the med sunshine but he preferred the db
> > approach. Luca was keen to get stuck in on his return and we should wait
> for
> > his input. However, I would like us to go ahead with the gettext
approach
> as
> > Hani who has done this already advises. There is quite a swag of
resources
> > around gettext and it appears almost a defacto standard.
> >
> > I think it is well known that my objection is to compromising the
> > readability of the code. Using gettext appears not to damage this too
> badly.
> > It might be an idea if those developers who are keen to be a part of
this
> > effort put their hands up and once the approach is clear then divide and
> > conquor
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media
> > 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33
> > Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift.
> > http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285
> > _______________________________________________
> > Web-erp-developers mailing list
> > Web...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media
> 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33
> Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift.
> http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285
> _______________________________________________
> Web-erp-developers mailing list
> Web...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers
>

Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[skaill <sk...@ro...>]

Phil, take a look below at a snippet of code from InfoCentral's config file.
They have already made an alias function, set the appropriate variables and
done a fix for some inconsistency.  It's probably what any of us would end
up writing anyway and if nothing else is a further insight into gettext...

Steve

// Internationalization (I18n) support
// Right now, InfoCentral supports US English (en_US), Italian (it_IT),
French (fr_FR), and German (de_DE)
$sLanguage = 'en_US';

//
// SETTINGS END HERE.  DO NOT MODIFY BELOW THIS LINE
//

putenv("LANG=$sLanguage");
setlocale(LC_ALL, $sLanguage);

// Get numeric and monetary locale settings.
$aLocaleInfo = localeconv();

// This is needed to avoid some bugs in various libraries like fpdf.
setlocale(LC_NUMERIC, 'C');

// patch some missing data for Italian.  This shouldn't be necessary!
if ($sLanguage == "it_IT")
{
 $aLocaleInfo["thousands_sep"] = ".";
 $aLocaleInfo["frac_digits"] = "2";
}

if (function_exists('bindtextdomain'))
{
 $domain = 'messages';

 $sLocaleDir = "locale";
 if (!is_dir($sLocaleDir))
  $sLocaleDir = "../" . $sLocaleDir;

 bindtextdomain($domain, $sLocaleDir);
 textdomain($domain);
}
else
{
 if ($sLanguage != 'en_US')
 {
  // PHP array version of the l18n strings
  $sLocaleMessages = "locale/" . $sLanguage . "/LC_MESSAGES/messages.php";

  if (!is_readable($sLocaleMessages))
   $sLocaleMessages = "../" . $sLocaleMessages;

  require ($sLocaleMessages);

  // replacement implementation of gettext for broken installs
  function gettext($text)
  {
   global $locale;

   if (!empty($locale[$text]))
    return $locale[$text];
   else
    return $text;
  }
 }
 else
 {
  // dummy gettext function
  function gettext($text)
  {
   return $text;
  }
 }

 function _($text) { return gettext($text); }
}

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daintrees" <p.d...@pa...>
To: <web...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations


>
> I have been doing a little research ...
>
>
http://www.appliedlanguage.com/articles/internationalization_using_php_and_get_text.shtml
>
> actually wrapping all strings in the gettext() function allows the strings
> to be extracted automatically - this seems like a huge bonus to me. I
think
> I will experiment a bit and see if I can get a couple of scripts going -
the
> only real downer with this is that I only speak english perhaps I could
give
> my .po file to Rom to translate so we can see how a few scripts work.
>
> It seems pretty straightforward!
>
> Phil
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "skaill" <sk...@ro...>
> To: <web...@li...>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations
>
>
> > Sounds good.  I'll be there.  To do the majority of the work we just
need
> to
> > find who all is involved, split the pages up between us and decide
whether
> > to use gettext() or an alias like _().
> >
> > >From there each of us just finds all the strings in their pages and
puts
> in
> > the function call.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Daintrees" <p.d...@pa...>
> > To: <web...@li...>
> > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 4:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations
> >
> >
> > > Luca is still away basking in the med sunshine but he preferred the db
> > > approach. Luca was keen to get stuck in on his return and we should
wait
> > for
> > > his input. However, I would like us to go ahead with the gettext
> approach
> > as
> > > Hani who has done this already advises. There is quite a swag of
> resources
> > > around gettext and it appears almost a defacto standard.
> > >
> > > I think it is well known that my objection is to compromising the
> > > readability of the code. Using gettext appears not to damage this too
> > badly.
> > > It might be an idea if those developers who are keen to be a part of
> this
> > > effort put their hands up and once the approach is clear then divide
and
> > > conquor
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media
> > > 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33
> > > Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift.
> > > http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Web-erp-developers mailing list
> > > Web...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media
> > 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33
> > Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift.
> > http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285
> > _______________________________________________
> > Web-erp-developers mailing list
> > Web...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers
> >
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media
> 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33
> Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift.
> http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285
> _______________________________________________
> Web-erp-developers mailing list
> Web...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers

Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[skaill <sk...@ro...>]

Hey, great!  From that link...

Extracting Strings from the Code
Gettext provides a utility called 'xgettext' to extract all the strings from
your scripts to a file called a "po" file, you have to use:



$xgettext -a src/*.php




To extract all the strings.

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daintrees" <p.d...@pa...>
To: <web...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations


>
> I have been doing a little research ...
>
>
http://www.appliedlanguage.com/articles/internationalization_using_php_and_get_text.shtml
>
> actually wrapping all strings in the gettext() function allows the strings
> to be extracted automatically - this seems like a huge bonus to me. I
think
> I will experiment a bit and see if I can get a couple of scripts going -
the
> only real downer with this is that I only speak english perhaps I could
give
> my .po file to Rom to translate so we can see how a few scripts work.
>
> It seems pretty straightforward!
>
> Phil
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "skaill" <sk...@ro...>
> To: <web...@li...>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations
>
>
> > Sounds good.  I'll be there.  To do the majority of the work we just
need
> to
> > find who all is involved, split the pages up between us and decide
whether
> > to use gettext() or an alias like _().
> >
> > >From there each of us just finds all the strings in their pages and
puts
> in
> > the function call.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Daintrees" <p.d...@pa...>
> > To: <web...@li...>
> > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 4:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations
> >
> >
> > > Luca is still away basking in the med sunshine but he preferred the db
> > > approach. Luca was keen to get stuck in on his return and we should
wait
> > for
> > > his input. However, I would like us to go ahead with the gettext
> approach
> > as
> > > Hani who has done this already advises. There is quite a swag of
> resources
> > > around gettext and it appears almost a defacto standard.
> > >
> > > I think it is well known that my objection is to compromising the
> > > readability of the code. Using gettext appears not to damage this too
> > badly.
> > > It might be an idea if those developers who are keen to be a part of
> this
> > > effort put their hands up and once the approach is clear then divide
and
> > > conquor
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media
> > > 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33
> > > Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift.
> > > http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Web-erp-developers mailing list
> > > Web...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media
> > 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33
> > Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift.
> > http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285
> > _______________________________________________
> > Web-erp-developers mailing list
> > Web...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers
> >
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media
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> _______________________________________________
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> Web...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers

RE: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Rom P. <ro...@pr...>]

Hello Phil and All,

> I have been doing a little research ...

>http://www.appliedlanguage.com/articles/internationalization_using_php_and_
get_text.shtml

> actually wrapping all strings in the gettext() function allows the strings
> to be extracted automatically - this seems like a huge bonus to me. I 
> think I will experiment a bit and see if I can get a couple of scripts 
> going - the only real downer with this is that I only speak english 
> perhaps I could give my .po file to Rom to translate so we can see how a 
> few scripts work.

Just send me the files :)

> It seems pretty straightforward!

Thank you and best regards,

Rom Pereira

RE: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Rom P. <ro...@pr...>]

Hello Phil and All,

> Luca is still away basking in the med sunshine but he preferred the db
> approach. Luca was keen to get stuck in on his return and we should =
wait >
> for
> his input. However, I would like us to go ahead with the gettext =
approach=20
> as
> Hani who has done this already advises. There is quite a swag of =
resources
> around gettext and it appears almost a defacto standard.

[Extremely Out of Topic]

Good to know :) - a little bit about myself... Here in South Brazil this
time of the year (it is winter here) is kind of cold, but today is very =
hot.
It would be nice to go to the beach or to take my boat through the winds =
(I
have a small 12 foot sailboat). I live in a beautiful island called
Florian=F3polis, where in the summer the population gets three times =
bigger. I
am very fortunate because I had the opportunity to live in different =
country
(I lived in USA for 5 years) and as I work with sales in our family =
company
(http://www.primor.ind.br), 3 times per year I travel around the world =
to
different countries (specially to Germany and Switzerland), but I never =
been
to the Mediterranean. Should be very nice... Someday I will take my =
family
(me, wife and a daughter and a son on its way) to see the wonders all
around. If I happen to be in your country one day, let's drink a beer =
and
share some laughs :D

[Back to the topic]

Well, the DB approach is nice... But this gettext looks nicer, if we can
have the files being created automatically, so we can control in some =
way
the way the translations are done.

> I think it is well known that my objection is to compromising the
> readability of the code. Using gettext appears not to damage this too
> badly.
> It might be an idea if those developers who are keen to be a part of =
this
> effort put their hands up and once the approach is clear then divide =
and
> conquor

Good enough for me! Well documented code always save a lot of time in
debugging / modifying.

Thank you and best regards,

Rom Pereira

Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Daintrees <p.d...@pa...>]

Rom,

Sounds lovely where you are - we have had 170km winds and floods and =
4
degrees C today.
Also liked the look of those yacht charters!!

Will have a drink to you tonight!

Phil
>
> [Extremely Out of Topic]
>
> Good to know :) - a little bit about myself... Here in South Brazil=
 this
> time of the year (it is winter here) is kind of cold, but today is =
very
hot.
> It would be nice to go to the beach or to take my boat through the =
winds
(I
> have a small 12 foot sailboat). I live in a beautiful island called
> Florian=F3polis, where in the summer the population gets three time=
s bigger.
I
> am very fortunate because I had the opportunity to live in differen=
t
country
> (I lived in USA for 5 years) and as I work with sales in our family
company
> (http://www.primor.ind.br), 3 times per year I travel around the wo=
rld to
> different countries (specially to Germany and Switzerland), but I n=
ever
been
> to the Mediterranean. Should be very nice... Someday I will take my=
 family
> (me, wife and a daughter and a son on its way) to see the wonders a=
ll
> around. If I happen to be in your country one day, let's drink a be=
er and
> share some laughs :D
>
> [Back to the topic]
>
> Well, the DB approach is nice... But this gettext looks nicer, if w=
e can
> have the files being created automatically, so we can control in so=
me way
> the way the translations are done.
>
> > I think it is well known that my objection is to compromising the
> > readability of the code. Using gettext appears not to damage this=
 too
> > badly.
> > It might be an idea if those developers who are keen to be a part=
 of
this
> > effort put their hands up and once the approach is clear then div=
ide and
> > conquor
>
> Good enough for me! Well documented code always save a lot of time =
in
> debugging / modifying.
>
> Thank you and best regards,
>
> Rom Pereira
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Me=
dia
> 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33
> Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift.
> http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285
> _______________________________________________
> Web-erp-developers mailing list
> Web...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers
>
>

RE: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Rom P. <ro...@pr...>]

Hello Phil,

Where are you at? Sounds like Florida to me...

> Sounds lovely where you are - we have had 170km winds and floods and 4
> degrees C today.
> Also liked the look of those yacht charters!!

I used to leave in Florida, in Miami. The ocean is a passion of mine...

> Will have a drink to you tonight!

Great, Thank you!

Rom
>
> [Extremely Out of Topic]
>
> Good to know :) - a little bit about myself... Here in South Brazil =
this
> time of the year (it is winter here) is kind of cold, but today is =
very
hot.
> It would be nice to go to the beach or to take my boat through the =
winds
(I
> have a small 12 foot sailboat). I live in a beautiful island called
> Florian=F3polis, where in the summer the population gets three times =
bigger.
I
> am very fortunate because I had the opportunity to live in different
country
> (I lived in USA for 5 years) and as I work with sales in our family
company
> (http://www.primor.ind.br), 3 times per year I travel around the world =
to
> different countries (specially to Germany and Switzerland), but I =
never
been
> to the Mediterranean. Should be very nice... Someday I will take my =
family
> (me, wife and a daughter and a son on its way) to see the wonders all
> around. If I happen to be in your country one day, let's drink a beer =
and
> share some laughs :D
>
> [Back to the topic]
>
> Well, the DB approach is nice... But this gettext looks nicer, if we =
can
> have the files being created automatically, so we can control in some =
way
> the way the translations are done.
>
> > I think it is well known that my objection is to compromising the
> > readability of the code. Using gettext appears not to damage this =
too
> > badly.
> > It might be an idea if those developers who are keen to be a part of
this
> > effort put their hands up and once the approach is clear then divide =
and
> > conquor
>
> Good enough for me! Well documented code always save a lot of time in
> debugging / modifying.
>
> Thank you and best regards,
>
> Rom Pereira
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by Shop4tech.com-Lowest price on Blank Media
> 100pk Sonic DVD-R 4x for only $29 -100pk Sonic DVD+R for only $33
> Save 50% off Retail on Ink & Toner - Free Shipping and Free Gift.
> http://www.shop4tech.com/z/Inkjet_Cartridges/9_108_r285
> _______________________________________________
> Web-erp-developers mailing list
> Web...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers
>
>




-------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Daintrees <p.d...@pa...>]

> 
> Where are you at? Sounds like Florida to me...

Wellington New Zealand!

> 
> I used to leave in Florida, in Miami. The ocean is a passion of mine...
> 

Me too - mad keen windsurfer as a lad. Too old and too cold now.

Phil

Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Hani N. <ha...@na...>]

Rom Pereira wrote:

>*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(tm) Pro*
>Dear Hani and All,
>
>  
>
>>Hi Rom, I think you will find that .po files (gettext files) are alot 
>>easier to maintain that a db.
>>Remember that you will not actually need to touch them, there tones of 
>>editors that can read them
>>and compile them. Some of these editors are quite sophisticated, some 
>>will even give you suggested translations etc..
>>    
>>
>
>Nice! I just started reading more about the gettext, but appear to be quite
>interesting.
>
>I did not make a fair job explaining my idea, what I will try to do now.
>
>There are 3 elements:
>
><Translation Central Web Site> - referred as [WS]
><Online Translation Interface> - referred as [TI]
><Translation Approval Administration Interface> - referred as [TAA]
>
>The idea is to create a [WS] (let's say in web-erp website) where the person
>would edit the [TA] for the desired language. After editing, those
>modifications/inclusions would be available for the Admin to approve in the
>[TAA]. After approved, the new gettext file would be generated and become
>available for everybody to download. Also, when new versions are launched,
>the new not translated text stays in English (assuming that English is the
>default language). So every language gets created at upgrade/update launch
>time. Users from that language that get the update will be alerted about the
>text not translated and can translate at real time in the [WS]. In this way
>we would have an unified translation effort, where all the users would take
>advantage of the recent translations, what is the main problem of most
>translations all around, the upgrade/update issue. Every time there is a new
>version the translation gets behind. 
>
>  
>
>>The thing with gettext is that you will need to call a function, when I 
>>did the translation code for
>>OpenAccounting I named the function _() so instead of having
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>print "Hello"
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>it becomes
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>print _("Hello");
>>    
>>
>
>This appears to be good enough for me. I understand that it would look for
>"Hello" into the dictionary file, right?
>
>It becomes then a matter of identifying all the spots and modifying them to
>adapt to this new system... How many developers are actually in the
>development row? If we coordinate, should not be a so impossible task to
>accomplish...
>
>  
>
>>Phil was not keen on that at the time since it involved changes to 
>>almost every file and would
>>cause too much hassle, that is why Sherif started OpenAccounting. At the 
>>time I was still involved
>>with OA it was basically weberp with multi-language support and more 
>>object-oriented design.
>>I don't know how they compare now.
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Hani
>>    
>>
>
>Well, please let me know your inputs on the questions above and at the idea,
>
>Thank you and best regards,
>
>Rom Pereira
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
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>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>  
>
Ok, so if I understand you correctly you want to build a website to help 
manage the translation effort. That actually sounds really nice, 
especially if you make it generic enough that it can be
used by any other project (not only weberp).  Although it sounds like a 
lot of work.

As for the effort in translating it took me and Sherif around 2 weeks 
(part-time) to go through all
the files and changing the code so it used the _() convention.
Initially that function just returned the english key (eg _("Hani") 
returned Hani ).

Once the code has been changed there are tools that will automatically 
locate the strings for you
and create an empty po file (with the keys that is). You than need to 
spend sometime cleaning it
up since you will initially find very similar entries which you can 
joined into one for example

Name: , and Name{space}: etc...

Then someone has to go through and translate the strings (again there 
are some good editors for
that). This is initially time consuming.

There are also tools for merging files from multiple users etc...

With regards to gettext I found a php based gettext and I adpated OA to 
check if the default
php gettext (which uses c code) was not installed I used the pure php 
version. Most ISP's php
seem to be compiled with gettext support though.

Good luck guys

RE: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Rom P. <ro...@pr...>]

Dear Hani and All,

><Translation Central Web Site> - referred as [WS]
><Online Translation Interface> - referred as [TI]
><Translation Approval Administration Interface> - referred as [TAA]
>
>The idea is to create a [WS] (let's say in web-erp website) where the
person
>would edit the [TI] for the desired language. After editing, those
>modifications/inclusions would be available for the Admin to approve in the
>[TAA]. After approved, the new gettext file would be generated and become
>available for everybody to download. Also, when new versions are launched,
>the new not translated text stays in English (assuming that English is the
>default language). So every language gets created at upgrade/update launch
>time. Users from that language that get the update will be alerted about
the
>text not translated and can translate at real time in the [WS]. In this way
>we would have an unified translation effort, where all the users would take
>advantage of the recent translations, what is the main problem of most
>translations all around, the upgrade/update issue. Every time there is a
new
>version the translation gets behind. 

> Ok, so if I understand you correctly you want to build a website to help 
> manage the translation effort. That actually sounds really nice, 
> especially if you make it generic enough that it can be
> used by any other project (not only weberp).  Although it sounds like a 
> lot of work.

Well, it will cost some time, but it will be a nice tool.

> As for the effort in translating it took me and Sherif around 2 weeks 
> (part-time) to go through all
> the files and changing the code so it used the _() convention.
> Initially that function just returned the english key (eg _("Hani") 
> returned Hani ).

I was calculating about a month, but 2 weeks is even better...

> Once the code has been changed there are tools that will automatically 
> locate the strings for you
> and create an empty po file (with the keys that is). You than need to 
> spend sometime cleaning it
> up since you will initially find very similar entries which you can 
> joined into one for example

> Name: , and Name{space}: etc...

Cool!

> Then someone has to go through and translate the strings (again there 
> are some good editors for
> that). This is initially time consuming.

Well, it is always good to check again the files, since everything is human
around here and mistakes can happen...

> There are also tools for merging files from multiple users etc...

> With regards to gettext I found a php based gettext and I adpated OA to 
> check if the default
> php gettext (which uses c code) was not installed I used the pure php 
> version. Most ISP's php
> seem to be compiled with gettext support though.

Yeap, they do.

> Good luck guys

Thank you and best regards,

Rom Pereira

RE: [Web-erp-developers] Translations

[Phil D. <p.d...@pa...>]

Rom,

yes this would be particularly good.

I think it would be possible to create a script that periodically
updates the main .po file of the strings requiring translation.
I also think it would be possible for a web-site to allow a translato=
r
to select the language and the appropriate .po file could be parsed=
=20
into a web page with the strings translated available for
modification.That would then write the new translations back to an
amended .po file. I think you will see the possibilities when you see
the automatically created .po file of strings and referred to as msgi=
d
and the translations referred to as msgstr.

I dont think this would be too much of a mission either!

[Massively off topic ... Had a look at your web-site. Is your product
free from all non-organic fertiliser, insect sprays and chemicals ...=
 I
thought this resulted in low yields and bugs etc In NZ they call it
"organic" growing and it is trendy for those healthy clean living fol=
ks
although one has to pay quite a bit extra for fruit/veg that will not
pollute the body because of the difficulty in growing such produce.]

Phil

On Tue, 2004-08-17 at 05:02, Rom Pereira wrote:
> Dear Steve and All,
>=20
> =20
>=20
> This project uses this very same gettext functionality:
> http://cattadoc.com/
>=20
> =20
>=20
> It is interesting, but to create the translated files is not as
> straight-forward as with a database interface, as they put in the
> page: http://cattadoc.com/translate.html, since it is needed to
> compile the file and everything.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> It would be nice if we could ally the advantages of the gettext
> functionality with a database interface straight-forwardness, like =
an
> online tool or something like it, where the user would make the
> translations in a database interface and get the result in a gettex=
t
> binary file.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Please let me know your inputs and thank you for your reply,
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Rom Pereira
>=20
> =20
>=20
>                                   =20
> ___________________________________________________________________=
___
>=20
> From:web...@li...
> [mailto:web...@li...] On Behalf O=
f
> skaill
> Sent: segunda-feira, 16 de agosto de 2004 13:37
> To: web...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] Translations
>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Hi Rom,
>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> I was looking into the same thing with another SourceForge project
> called InfoCentral.  They use the built in gettext facility and the
> code and functions to do it are very understandable.  You may want =
to
> check that project out.
>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> The main part of the work will be finding every string in the progr=
am
> in order to put the gettext() function call around it.
>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> When using the gettext functionality, the language files are a
> specific format and there are tools available to more easily update
> and maintain the translations in the future.
>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> Steve
>=20
>=20
>         ----- Original Message -----=20
>        =20
>        =20
>         From: Rom Pereira
>        =20
>        =20
>         To: web...@li...
>        =20
>        =20
>         Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:25 PM
>        =20
>        =20
>         Subject:[Web-erp-developers] Translations
>        =20
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>        =20
>         Dear Friends at Web-ERP Developers and Phil Daintree,
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>         Recently I sent an email regarding translation to Brazilian
>         Portuguese. I received a prompt reply from Mr. Phil Daintre=
e
>         about the subject and I quote:
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>         =B4There is work afoot to make it easier to translate the s=
ystem
>         such that when changes are implemented the translation work
>         will not need to be re-done.=A1
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>         I use a CRM system from http://crm-ctt.sourceforge.net/ and=
 it
>         is pretty good. The way the created the translations system
>         works pretty well. Maybe we should study some system like t=
hat
>         to better understand how to create a good one. I am a PHP
>         programmer myself, far from an expert, but I can do some
>         programming. My intentions are to apply this ERP to my fami=
ly
>         company, Primor Doces e Caramelos Ltda.
>         (http://www.primor.ind.br). Something that I don=FFt unders=
tand
>         very well is the Company processes but I am willing to lear=
n.
>         Maybe I can be of more help. Please let me know.
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>         =B4However, this is some way away. An Italian chap is start=
ing
>         work on this but we are discussing the best way to proceed.=
 If
>         you join the web-erp-developers list you can contribute to =
the
>         discussions.=A1
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>         We can to an intermediate solution until we move to a bette=
r
>         approach to the ideal solution to the problem.
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>         I do believe that ERP system should move from the hands of =
big
>         companies that make it so difficult to buy those systems
>         without wasting a lot of time and money.
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>         I also own a copy of HB++, what is a programming language f=
or
>         palm platforms and I can help to create applications that
>         would link the both worlds.
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>         Again let me know of how I can be of more help.
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>         Thank you and Best Regards,
>        =20
>         =20
>        =20
>         Rom Pereira
>        =20
>=20