Re: [Web-erp-developers] file imports for serial items

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No solution for when gettext is not native except passing through the
English.  Good point because we need something like this even without the
variable issue.

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stins, Dick" <DR...@Zi...>
To: <web...@li...>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] file imports for serial items

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "skaill" <sk...@ro...>
> To: <web...@li...>
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] file imports for serial items
>
>
> > Forcing the Declaration of all variables would eliminate many possible
> > problems/errors.
> >
> > If we compare the pros and cons I get:
> >
> > Pros
> > 1) We would need to evaluate how much further it gets the translation
> > compared to not using.
> >
> > 2) It would cut down on work to piece the strings and preserve the
strings
> > in tact which would be more readable, however, I have always built my
> > strings in the way we're cutting them up anyway as opposed to embedding
> the
> > variables.  I never liked the idea of the preprocessing of variables
> within
> > strings and also always thought it was more self-documenting having the
> > variables stick out through concatenation with the string pieces.
>
> I guess that most of WEB-ERP is mainly coded by this method. So this class
> does not contribute anything except when native gettext is not available
(or
> did you allready have a solution for this?)
>
> >
> > Cons
> > 1) The possible slowdowns of using the class instead of built in php
> > processor gettext code
> >
> > 2) What's with the setVar?  Does that mean we need to add setVars for
> every
> > var used in a string? That will be some more work.
> >
> > 3) Do the tolls for making the po's such as xgettext all work smoothly
> with
> > this enhancement?
> >
> > 4) If setVar is not done on a variable then I'm thinking what will
happen
> is
> > the variable name with $ will appear instead of the variable's value.
> This
> > could get easily missed by various people at various times.
> >
> > 5) How stable and used is this class?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stins, Dick" <DR...@Zi...>
> > To: <web...@li...>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 2:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] file imports for serial items
> >
> >
> > > Jesse,
> > >
> > > This package is nice. Only we need an extra step. "declare" all
> variables.
> > > But that's an advantage too because it's shows directly an error when
> you
> > > make some typing mistakes like "name" instead of "names".
> > >
> > > with best regards,
> > >
> > > Dick Stins
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jesse Peterson" <je...@st...>
> > > To: <web...@li...>
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 7:00 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] file imports for serial items
> > >
> > >
> > > > I've done some testing and digging today and it would seem that
there
> is
> > > > no way to do the translation w/ variables I was talking about
without
> > > > either employing a wrapper class of sorts or using printf variable
> > > > positioning syntax that could be very confusing.
> > > > I did not test this, but it likely would be an easy class to drop
> in...
> > > > http://phptal.sourceforge.net/bagpack/GetText/class.GetText.html
> > > > It look like it is basically a wrapper to gettext...
> > > >
> > > > that would still require translators to be able to move around
> variables
> > > > and a little extra typing on our part... I think having vars written
> in
> > > > the ${varname} syntax would make it easier for a non-programmer,
> though.
> > > > I'm just thinking about how bad the translations may get chopping up
> > > > sentences...
> > > >
> > > > jesse
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Daintrees wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Well I didn't actually test that bit.
> > > > >
> > > > >We are actually using xgettext to extract all the strings from the
> > files
> > > > >that have strings inside the gettext function calls. xgettext wont
> > > extract
> > > > >strings that include variables inside them and with flagging
> > enthusisasm
> > > for
> > > > >multi-language - I don't want to have to take strings manually to
the
> > > > >messages.po I want this created automatically using xgettext.
> > > > >
> > > > >There is a chance that your suggestion might work Jesse, its just
> that
> > if
> > > it
> > > > >does, it would involve a LOT more work and introduce more possible
> > causes
> > > of
> > > > >problems. Translators would have to know to keep the name of the
> > variable
> > > > >exactly the same and might not.
> > > > >
> > > > >Phil
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "skaill" <sk...@ro...>
> > > > >To: <web...@li...>
> > > > >Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 6:00 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] file imports for serial items
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>Ah.  And since we don't want the variables hard code translated
then
> > it
> > > > >>wouldn't do to translate the entire string.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Steve
> > > > >>
> > > > >>----- Original Message -----
> > > > >>From: "Jesse Peterson" <je...@st...>
> > > > >>To: <web...@li...>
> > > > >>Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 1:45 AM
> > > > >>Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] file imports for serial items
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>php is interpreted in it's execution, but these functions occur
> > within
> > > > >>>the execution, so it was a crap shoot as to which way gettext is
> > > > >>>written. Phil has repsonded to say he tested and that gettext in
> fact
> > > > >>>does parse & interpret the string before matching it for
> translation.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>jesse
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>skaill wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>I could be way off track but I'm thinking that PHP is
interpreted,
> > not
> > > > >>>>compiled.  Therefore, it does not know what to do with a string
> > until
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >it
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>is
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>executing the function/command upon that string.  For instance,
> the
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>function
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>could be to simply copy the string.  This means you would want
to
> > copy
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>"Hi
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>$UserID" as "Hi $UserID", not "Hi Tom".  If so, it would be the
> echo
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >that
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>indicates what to do with the string.  Since the echo is
executed
> > > after
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>the
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>gettext then the string passed to gettext would contain the
> variable
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >name
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>and not the contents of the variable.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>Steve
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>----- Original Message -----
> > > > >>>>From: "Jesse Peterson" <je...@st...>
> > > > >>>>To: <web...@li...>
> > > > >>>>Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 12:57 AM
> > > > >>>>Subject: Re: [Web-erp-developers] file imports for serial items
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>No, my thought was the translator would be told that things
> > starting
> > > > >>>>>with $ were a variable, usually a number,  (and I suppose a
> > possible
> > > > >>>>>explanation of that) so they could just move them around in the
> > > > >>>>>translated string. I suppose a way to think of what I'm taking
> > about
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >is
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>an array keyed by a full string, including variable, that had
> > values
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >of
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>the translated string that should be used.
> > > > >>>>>Alas, as you said, it does not work like that with gettext - I
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >supposed
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>the 'smart' it is depends on how you might wish it to work ;)
> And
> > I
> > > > >>>>>wasn't just suggesting it work the shorter code, it was really
> for
> > > the
> > > > >>>>>more accurate translation to help make things look that much
> better
> > > in
> > > > >>>>>the eyes of others. Still, being able to attract the user base
of
> > > most
> > > > >>>>>any language is a very good thing, so this project you guys
have
> > > > >>>>>undertaken is quite admirable. Glad I can help.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>jesse
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>Phil Daintree wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>Thinking a little more - we dont really want variable names
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >translated
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>anyway - the scripts will always be in English and using the
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >variables
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>would be tough if they were actually translated to something
> else.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>gettext works on a bunch on languages as well as PHP but it is
> > > really
> > > > >>>>>>only working purely with strings.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>Phil
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>On Sun, 2004-09-05 at 16:19, Jesse Peterson wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>That would be a great help re internationalization.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>One question on this... I saw that you asked that this be
done:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>echo "<P>A long string full of $NumberOfCharacters
> characters";
> > > > >>>>>>>>>would need to be re-written as:
> > > > >>>>>>>>>echo '<P>' . _('A long string full of') . ' ' .
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >$NumberOfCharacters
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>'
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>' . _('characters');
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>It makes perfect senses and is easy to follow. I also do not
> know
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>gettext much at all. The root of what I am wondering is if php
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >evaluates
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>a
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>variable in a "num = $TheNum" style string before gettext
> translates
> > > it
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>or
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>not. If not, it would probably make things a lot easier on
> potential
> > > > >>>>translators to work with:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> _("A long string full of $NumberOfCharacters characters");
> > > > >>>>>>>instead of:
> > > > >>>>>>> _('A long string full of') . ' ' . $NumberOfCharacters . ' '
.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>_('characters');
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>Luckily our code keeper is committed to readable code, so the
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >variable
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>name should generally describe what it is. That would give a
> > > translator
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >2
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>things - more full context to what they are translating and one
> less
> > > > >>>>translation to do. I also know languages just enough to know
that
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >piecing
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>together english translations in the manner underway does not
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >necessarily
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>produce coherent output. The more a message can be presented
with
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>context,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>>the better the translation will be.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>Just a thought - not sure how feasible it is...
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>jesse
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Web-erp-developers] file imports for serial items

Accounting & Best Practice Business Administration System

Re: [Web-erp-developers] file imports for serial items