visualpython-users

Re: [Visualpython-users] Wireframe Mode

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

It's VERY tough to make 3d stuff work harmoniously with a 2D graph that has 
different x and y scale factors. Think for a moment about what an arrow object 
would look like. Spheres aren't bad, they just turn into ellipses. But even a 
simple box whose axis is not along x, y, or z is going to be bizarrely distorted.

Bruce Sherwood

Tony Risinger wrote:
> I second the HUD stuff, i've been working on various data visualizers
> and text is difficult to keep stationary.  Maybe a "pin" method of
> sorts that glues labels/etc to the viewport rather than space?
> 
> Also what about gdisplays? I was slightly dissapointed when I couldn't
> have a graph and 3d stuff in the same window, would had made some
> parts of my engine simpler.  Is there some way to do that?  I know the
> scale factors are differnent and I haven't looked at the
> implementation, just thoughts.
> 
> On Oct 22, 2009, at 3:08 PM, "Anders Wallin" <and...@gm...
>  > wrote:
> 
>>> Hello,
>>> I've poored through the documentation and googled it several times,
>>> but I
>>> can't find anyway to enable wireframe drawing. Since I've worked
>>> with OpenGL
>>> I'm pretty sure that it would be easy to implement,
>> I would also be interested in this, particularly for 'faces' objects.
>>
>> while I'm daydreaming, the lack of these three features almost makes
>> me write my own OpenGL wrapper:
>> - screenshots (I now got imagemagick's 'import' to work, but it's
>> quite slow)
>> - wireframe mode ('faces' objects which I draw based on STL files)
>> - on-screen or 'HUD'-type text drawing (Is this already implemented?)
>>
>>
>> AW
>>
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
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>> your
>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
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>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
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>> Vis...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Tony Risinger
> Application Development Specialist
> Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639
> 
> To...@Br...
> 
> http://www.brokerbin.com/
> 
> CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the specific individual(s) or entity(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is propriety, privileged or confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, by reply electronic mail or by telephone, of any unintended recipients so we may correct our records. Also, delete the original electronic mail and any attachments without making any copies of the electronic mail message or attachments.
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Re: [Visualpython-users] Wireframe Mode

[Tony R. <To...@br...>]

I second the HUD stuff, i've been working on various data visualizers
and text is difficult to keep stationary.  Maybe a "pin" method of
sorts that glues labels/etc to the viewport rather than space?

Also what about gdisplays? I was slightly dissapointed when I couldn't
have a graph and 3d stuff in the same window, would had made some
parts of my engine simpler.  Is there some way to do that?  I know the
scale factors are differnent and I haven't looked at the
implementation, just thoughts.

On Oct 22, 2009, at 3:08 PM, "Anders Wallin" <and...@gm...
 > wrote:

>> Hello,
>> I've poored through the documentation and googled it several times,
>> but I
>> can't find anyway to enable wireframe drawing. Since I've worked
>> with OpenGL
>> I'm pretty sure that it would be easy to implement,
>
> I would also be interested in this, particularly for 'faces' objects.
>
> while I'm daydreaming, the lack of these three features almost makes
> me write my own OpenGL wrapper:
> - screenshots (I now got imagemagick's 'import' to work, but it's
> quite slow)
> - wireframe mode ('faces' objects which I draw based on STL files)
> - on-screen or 'HUD'-type text drawing (Is this already implemented?)
>
>
> AW
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
> your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
> stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>


Tony Risinger
Application Development Specialist
Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639

To...@Br...

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Re: [Visualpython-users] Wireframe Mode

[Anders W. <and...@gm...>]

> Hello,
> I've poored through the documentation and googled it several times, but I
> can't find anyway to enable wireframe drawing. Since I've worked with OpenGL
> I'm pretty sure that it would be easy to implement,

I would also be interested in this, particularly for 'faces' objects.

while I'm daydreaming, the lack of these three features almost makes
me write my own OpenGL wrapper:
- screenshots (I now got imagemagick's 'import' to work, but it's quite slow)
- wireframe mode ('faces' objects which I draw based on STL files)
- on-screen or 'HUD'-type text drawing (Is this already implemented?)


AW

Re: [Visualpython-users] Wireframe Mode

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

It is indeed not implemented, and it could be useful.

Bruce Sherwood

Nathaniel Troutman wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've poored through the documentation and googled it several times, but 
> I can't find anyway to enable wireframe drawing. Since I've worked with 
> OpenGL I'm pretty sure that it would be easy to implement, but I wanted 
> to make sure it wasn't hidden somewhere before I think about whipping 
> together and submitting a patch.
> 
> Thanks,
> nathaniel

[Visualpython-users] Wireframe Mode

[Nathaniel T. <loc...@ya...>]

Hello,

I've poored through the documentation and googled it several times, but I can't find anyway to enable wireframe drawing. Since I've worked with OpenGL I'm pretty sure that it would be easy to implement, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't hidden somewhere before I think about whipping together and submitting a patch.

Thanks,
nathaniel

Re: [Visualpython-users] color bar

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

I think you could achieve this effect with two (triangular) faces, whose 
vertices have different colors. See the documentation on faces.

If a cylinder would work, you could use a wide curve with many points 
and interpolate the hue along the path. Note that there are color 
functions for converting between RGB and hue-saturation-value (intensity).

Bruce Sherwood

xingran xue wrote:
> Hi, guys.
> 
> Is there any easy way to draw a color bar like this? I cannot use the 
> texture. Any input would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Ran
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Visualpython-users] numpy array in random

[Derek <kn...@ip...>]

Guy K. Kloss wrote:
> Hi Symion,
>
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:53:30 Symion wrote:
>   
>> I have been using Visual.random number generators and have found that the
>>  following Methods return as numpy arrays, which when Printed or Evaluated
>>  returns a list that is not separated by the usual commas.
>>
>> from visual import *
>>     
>
> Yes, this is one of the issues that I've been mentioning on the list before, 
> caused by the snowball imports that Visual is conducting under the bonnet in 
> the code (from math import *; from numpy import *).
>
> Therefore the namespace is quite "polluted" with modules that are not from 
> Visual, but that also may behave in some way unexpected, as they come from 
> different packages.
>
> In the case of random this originates from NumPy, and therefore returns 
> NumPy's ndarray structures.
>
>   
>> print visual.random.sample(5)  # floating point list with no commas
>> print visual.random.permutation(5) # Integer list with no commas
>> print visual.random.randint(1,46,5) # Integer list with no commas
>>
>> visual.safe_eval(str(visual.random.randint(1,46,5))) # generates error
>>
>> No commas between elements?!
>>     
>
> The ndarray objects are *not* lists or tuples. But they do implement the 
> methods of the iterable interface so they behave in many ways like lists. As 
> for your observation, their __str__() method is implemented to print out 
> arrays separated by blanks, and not to use commas as separators, as well as 
> other rounding style, and some truncation style on very extensive arrays.
>
>   
>> A work around is to add .tolist()
>>     
>
> Or to call the list constructor: list(a_numpy_array)
>
>   
>> visual.random.sample(5).tolist() # returns normal list of floats
>> visual.random.permutation(6).tolist()
>> visual.random.randint(1,46,5).tolist()
>> visual.safe_eval(str(visual.random.randint(1,46,5).tolist()))
>>     
>
> Be very careful what's imported, and what you're using. It might be not what 
> you expect. That's also why an "from visual import *" can be quite dangerous 
> for your own code, as their name spaces are *very* full and may mask stuff 
> you're doing yourself.
>
> Guy
>
>   
I have been following the namespace issue and the following might help 
to get a handle on things.

from visual import *
print len(dir())

Mine reads 556

If you're brave you'll print dir()!
Although this is a drawback, it is also a Gold mine of amazing, obscure, 
bizarre but quite often useful things.
But then, on the other hand I would like to be able to 'import visual' 
as a minimal system then import any modules
of my choosing. I can see the dilemma.

Symion

Re: [Visualpython-users] numpy array in random

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:33:53 Bruce Sherwood wrote:
> I should comment that the backwards compatibility issue has lots of 
> ramifications that may not be obvious. For example, there are many faculty
>  who  run demos in their lectures that were written in VPython, and they
>  themselves may not know much about the environment, and they may be
>  running on classroom computers over which they have no control. These
>  computers are periodically updated by a central university classroom
>  technology group. If "from visual import *" breaks due to a new version of
>  Python and Visual being installed, it's an educational disaster when the
>  unsuspecting faculty member in the middle of class finds that an important
>  demo program doesn't run.

Indeed, fully understood. We've discussed that at length.

Maybe we should go that way of "cleaning up" the internal imports (as I've 
done once for the 5.11 version), and then do the wild card import *only* on 
the package level once for the package that needs these imports or backward 
compatibility reasons. Once I've got my thesis handed soon (this 
summer/December), I could assist in patching up the sources again towards that 
goal.

Then we could easily introduce a "shadow" package "visual2", "visual_", 
"visual_clean" or whatever ... which does not include these wild card imports. 
I think this way everybody could be happy and just use what they need, or use 
the default for compatibility reasons.

For a future version (5.2+ or 6.x) then it could be "reversed", so that the 
default becomes a clean "visual", and a "visual_compat" is provided for the 
ones who like it convenient as it was in the past.

Just my two kiwi cents,

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

Re: [Visualpython-users] numpy array in random

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

Yes, I should have said either "import visual2" or "from visual2 import *". The 
key point is that neither of these imports would import anything from math or 
numpy beyond what is utterly essential for visual itself to run.

I should comment that the backwards compatibility issue has lots of 
ramifications that may not be obvious. For example, there are many faculty who 
run demos in their lectures that were written in VPython, and they themselves 
may not know much about the environment, and they may be running on classroom 
computers over which they have no control. These computers are periodically 
updated by a central university classroom technology group. If "from visual 
import *" breaks due to a new version of Python and Visual being installed, it's 
an educational disaster when the unsuspecting faculty member in the middle of 
class finds that an important demo program doesn't run.

Bruce Sherwood

Guy K. Kloss wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:12:42 Tony Risinger wrote:
>> Why not just "import visual2"?  Isn't the * somewhat discouraged?
>>
>> I would rather have to important math/numpy stuff myself if I need
>> them, and let the visual.* namespace be nothing but sphere/display/etc.
> 
> Yeah, that's been discussed in the past ...
> 
> The issues are (A) backwards compatibility, and (B) ease of use for students 
> otherwise *not* into programming, that they have got immediate and instant 
> access at a huge fund of useful functions for the purpose.
> 
> Having said that, myself, I'm much more a fan of keeping it clean as well.
> 
> So that's the reasoning behind the suggestion(s).
> 
> Guy
> 

Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual on Ubuntu *Karmic*? Has *anyone* managed?

[Guenter S. <Gue...@ph...>]

Tony Risinger wrote:
> All tests work on 5.11 as well, although I do get some issues that may
> be only related to me:
> 
> VPython WARNING: errors in sharer program:
> linking with uncompiled shader
In my experience, this message appears when not using hardware 
accelerated graphics. Not a bug, and most certainly has nothing to do 
with the boost_python issue.

Guenter
> 
> None of my materials work, either, seems to be related.  When I run
> the materials_test I get that output for each skinned object...
> 
> Anyone know of this?
> 
> On Oct 21, 2009, at 9:39 PM, "Tony Risinger" <To...@br...> wrote:
> 
>> I just successfully ran visual by compiling boost from svn, and using
>> 5.13
>>
>> I will try more tests to confirm, and also try with 5.11 to make sure
>> it had nothing to do with visual
>>
>> Also, boost 1.40.0rc1 did not work, I used trunk which identifies
>> itself as 1.41.0
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2009, at 8:50 PM, "Bruce Sherwood"
>> <Bru...@nc...> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks much for tracking this and reporting progress (or lack
>>> thereof)!
>>>
>>> Bruce Sherwood
>>>
>>> Guy K. Kloss wrote:
>>>> Apparently that was a good move to file that bug. Other people have
>>>> become
>>>> aware of it and are looking into it, now. Also people on the Python
>>>> project
>>>> itself, as the fix that modified the __doc__ behaviour might have
>>>> some
>>>> previously unexpected side effects as this one we're talking about.
>>>> Anyway,
>>>> here is their job ticket:
>>>>
>>>> http://bugs.python.org/issue7183
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---
>>> ---
>>> ---
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
>>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
>>> your
>>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
>>> stay
>>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
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>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Visualpython-users mailing list
>>> Vis...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Tony Risinger
>> Application Development Specialist
>> Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639
>>
>> To...@Br...
>>
>> http://www.brokerbin.com/
>>
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>> may contain information that is propriety, privileged or
>> confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the
>> intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, by reply
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>> may correct our records. Also, delete the original electronic mail
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tony Risinger
>> Application Development Specialist
>> Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639
>>
>> To...@Br...
>>
>> http://www.brokerbin.com/
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> 
> 
> Tony Risinger
> Application Development Specialist
> Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639
> 
> To...@Br...
> 
> http://www.brokerbin.com/
> 
> CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the specific individual(s) or entity(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is propriety, privileged or confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, by reply electronic mail or by telephone, of any unintended recipients so we may correct our records. Also, delete the original electronic mail and any attachments without making any copies of the electronic mail message or attachments.
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Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual on Ubuntu *Karmic*? Has *anyone* managed?

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:24:36 Tony Risinger wrote:
> All tests work on 5.11 as well, although I do get some issues that may
> be only related to me:
> 
> VPython WARNING: errors in sharer program:
> linking with uncompiled shader

Would you be so kind and add potentially helpful but missing information to 
the bug report on launchpad, please?

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boost1.38/+bug/457688

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual on Ubuntu *Karmic*? Has *anyone* managed?

[Tony R. <To...@br...>]

All tests work on 5.11 as well, although I do get some issues that may
be only related to me:

VPython WARNING: errors in sharer program:
linking with uncompiled shader

None of my materials work, either, seems to be related.  When I run
the materials_test I get that output for each skinned object...

Anyone know of this?

On Oct 21, 2009, at 9:39 PM, "Tony Risinger" <To...@br...> wrote:

> I just successfully ran visual by compiling boost from svn, and using
> 5.13
>
> I will try more tests to confirm, and also try with 5.11 to make sure
> it had nothing to do with visual
>
> Also, boost 1.40.0rc1 did not work, I used trunk which identifies
> itself as 1.41.0
>
> On Oct 21, 2009, at 8:50 PM, "Bruce Sherwood"
> <Bru...@nc...> wrote:
>
>> Thanks much for tracking this and reporting progress (or lack
>> thereof)!
>>
>> Bruce Sherwood
>>
>> Guy K. Kloss wrote:
>>> Apparently that was a good move to file that bug. Other people have
>>> become
>>> aware of it and are looking into it, now. Also people on the Python
>>> project
>>> itself, as the fix that modified the __doc__ behaviour might have
>>> some
>>> previously unexpected side effects as this one we're talking about.
>>> Anyway,
>>> here is their job ticket:
>>>
>>> http://bugs.python.org/issue7183
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
>> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
>> your
>> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
>> stay
>> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
>> _______________________________________________
>> Visualpython-users mailing list
>> Vis...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>>
>>
>
>
> Tony Risinger
> Application Development Specialist
> Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639
>
> To...@Br...
>
> http://www.brokerbin.com/
>
> CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: This electronic mail message and any
> attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of
> the specific individual(s) or entity(s) to whom it is addressed and
> may contain information that is propriety, privileged or
> confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, by reply
> electronic mail or by telephone, of any unintended recipients so we
> may correct our records. Also, delete the original electronic mail
> and any attachments without making any copies of the electronic mail
> message or attachments.
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
> your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
> stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
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>
>
>
>
> Tony Risinger
> Application Development Specialist
> Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639
>
> To...@Br...
>
> http://www.brokerbin.com/
>
> CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: This electronic mail message and any
> attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of
> the specific individual(s) or entity(s) to whom it is addressed and
> may contain information that is propriety, privileged or
> confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, by reply
> electronic mail or by telephone, of any unintended recipients so we
> may correct our records. Also, delete the original electronic mail
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Tony Risinger
Application Development Specialist
Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639

To...@Br...

http://www.brokerbin.com/

CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the specific individual(s) or entity(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is propriety, privileged or confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, by reply electronic mail or by telephone, of any unintended recipients so we may correct our records. Also, delete the original electronic mail and any attachments without making any copies of the electronic mail message or attachments.

Re: [Visualpython-users] numpy array in random

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:12:42 Tony Risinger wrote:
> Why not just "import visual2"?  Isn't the * somewhat discouraged?
> 
> I would rather have to important math/numpy stuff myself if I need
> them, and let the visual.* namespace be nothing but sphere/display/etc.

Yeah, that's been discussed in the past ...

The issues are (A) backwards compatibility, and (B) ease of use for students 
otherwise *not* into programming, that they have got immediate and instant 
access at a huge fund of useful functions for the purpose.

Having said that, myself, I'm much more a fan of keeping it clean as well.

So that's the reasoning behind the suggestion(s).

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual on Ubuntu *Karmic*? Has *anyone* managed?

[Tony R. <To...@br...>]

I just successfully ran visual by compiling boost from svn, and using
5.13

I will try more tests to confirm, and also try with 5.11 to make sure
it had nothing to do with visual

Also, boost 1.40.0rc1 did not work, I used trunk which identifies
itself as 1.41.0

On Oct 21, 2009, at 8:50 PM, "Bruce Sherwood"
<Bru...@nc...> wrote:

> Thanks much for tracking this and reporting progress (or lack
> thereof)!
>
> Bruce Sherwood
>
> Guy K. Kloss wrote:
>> Apparently that was a good move to file that bug. Other people have
>> become
>> aware of it and are looking into it, now. Also people on the Python
>> project
>> itself, as the fix that modified the __doc__ behaviour might have
>> some
>> previously unexpected side effects as this one we're talking about.
>> Anyway,
>> here is their job ticket:
>>
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue7183
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
> your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
> stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
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> _______________________________________________
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> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>


Tony Risinger
Application Development Specialist
Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639

To...@Br...

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Re: [Visualpython-users] numpy array in random

[Tony R. <To...@br...>]

You could maybe use the __all__ list in init to somehow trigger a full
import, maybe a dummy submodule...  A way to transparently detect an
"import visual" from an "from visual import *" seems the ideal case
but I'm not sure if it could easily be imemented that way.

Although there seems to be alot of namespace correction code in the
visual package that could possibly be moved to a dummy submodule that
is only triggered when someone uses the * syntax

On Oct 21, 2009, at 9:15 PM, "Guy K. Kloss" <g....@ma...>
wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:47:09 Bruce Sherwood wrote:
>> Here's an idea about how to unpollute in a way that wouldn't break
>> existing  programs. Suppose one said "from visual2 import *" to get
>> just
>> the visual objects?
>
> Hmmm, to have a "shadow package" that is unpolluted. Might be an
> idea. Make it
> API identical ...
>
> Another option to have a "vidual_" package that actually implements
> all the
> stuff, and then have a "visual" package (for backward compatibility)
> that
> imports "from visual_ import *" as well as does the other wild
> imports from
> NumPy and math.
>
> That might do the trick ... while trying to keep the implementation
> as clean
> as possible.
>
> Guy
>
> --
> Guy K. Kloss
> Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
> Te Kura Putaiao o Mohiohio me Pangarau
> Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
> 473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
> voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585   fax: +64 9 441-8181
> G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
> your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
> stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users


Tony Risinger
Application Development Specialist
Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639

To...@Br...

http://www.brokerbin.com/

CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the specific individual(s) or entity(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is propriety, privileged or confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, by reply electronic mail or by telephone, of any unintended recipients so we may correct our records. Also, delete the original electronic mail and any attachments without making any copies of the electronic mail message or attachments.

Re: [Visualpython-users] numpy array in random

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:47:09 Bruce Sherwood wrote:
> Here's an idea about how to unpollute in a way that wouldn't break
>  existing  programs. Suppose one said "from visual2 import *" to get just
>  the visual objects?

Hmmm, to have a "shadow package" that is unpolluted. Might be an idea. Make it 
API identical ...

Another option to have a "vidual_" package that actually implements all the 
stuff, and then have a "visual" package (for backward compatibility) that 
imports "from visual_ import *" as well as does the other wild imports from 
NumPy and math.

That might do the trick ... while trying to keep the implementation as clean 
as possible.

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

Re: [Visualpython-users] numpy array in random

[Tony R. <To...@br...>]

Why not just "import visual2"?  Isn't the * somewhat discouraged?

I would rather have to important math/numpy stuff myself if I need
them, and let the visual.* namespace be nothing but sphere/display/etc.

That's how ive seen other modules internally and seems to be the norm
to only explicitly import what you need.  Is that not feasible for
visual?  Maybe the module needs to be one version for non programmers
with a huge first level namespace, and another module more properly
structured for integrators.

On Oct 21, 2009, at 8:48 PM, "Bruce Sherwood"
<Bru...@nc...> wrote:

> Here's an idea about how to unpollute in a way that wouldn't break
> existing
> programs. Suppose one said "from visual2 import *" to get just the
> visual objects?
>
> Bruce Sherwood
>
> Guy K. Kloss wrote:
>> Hi Symion,
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:53:30 Symion wrote:
>>> I have been using Visual.random number generators and have found
>>> that the
>>> following Methods return as numpy arrays, which when Printed or
>>> Evaluated
>>> returns a list that is not separated by the usual commas.
>>>
>>> from visual import *
>>
>> Yes, this is one of the issues that I've been mentioning on the
>> list before,
>> caused by the snowball imports that Visual is conducting under the
>> bonnet in
>> the code (from math import *; from numpy import *).
>>
>> Therefore the namespace is quite "polluted" with modules that are
>> not from
>> Visual, but that also may behave in some way unexpected, as they
>> come from
>> different packages.
>>
>> In the case of random this originates from NumPy, and therefore
>> returns
>> NumPy's ndarray structures.
>>
>>> print visual.random.sample(5)  # floating point list with no commas
>>> print visual.random.permutation(5) # Integer list with no commas
>>> print visual.random.randint(1,46,5) # Integer list with no commas
>>>
>>> visual.safe_eval(str(visual.random.randint(1,46,5))) # generates
>>> error
>>>
>>> No commas between elements?!
>>
>> The ndarray objects are *not* lists or tuples. But they do
>> implement the
>> methods of the iterable interface so they behave in many ways like
>> lists. As
>> for your observation, their __str__() method is implemented to
>> print out
>> arrays separated by blanks, and not to use commas as separators, as
>> well as
>> other rounding style, and some truncation style on very extensive
>> arrays.
>>
>>> A work around is to add .tolist()
>>
>> Or to call the list constructor: list(a_numpy_array)
>>
>>> visual.random.sample(5).tolist() # returns normal list of floats
>>> visual.random.permutation(6).tolist()
>>> visual.random.randint(1,46,5).tolist()
>>> visual.safe_eval(str(visual.random.randint(1,46,5).tolist()))
>>
>> Be very careful what's imported, and what you're using. It might be
>> not what
>> you expect. That's also why an "from visual import *" can be quite
>> dangerous
>> for your own code, as their name spaces are *very* full and may
>> mask stuff
>> you're doing yourself.
>>
>> Guy
>>
>
> ---
> ---
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart
> your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
> stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>


Tony Risinger
Application Development Specialist
Tel: 507-535-7563 | Fax: 507-292-5747 | Toll Free: 866-241-0639

To...@Br...

http://www.brokerbin.com/

CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the specific individual(s) or entity(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is propriety, privileged or confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, by reply electronic mail or by telephone, of any unintended recipients so we may correct our records. Also, delete the original electronic mail and any attachments without making any copies of the electronic mail message or attachments.

Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual on Ubuntu *Karmic*? Has *anyone* managed?

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

Thanks much for tracking this and reporting progress (or lack thereof)!

Bruce Sherwood

Guy K. Kloss wrote:
> Apparently that was a good move to file that bug. Other people have become 
> aware of it and are looking into it, now. Also people on the Python project 
> itself, as the fix that modified the __doc__ behaviour might have some 
> previously unexpected side effects as this one we're talking about. Anyway, 
> here is their job ticket:
>  
> http://bugs.python.org/issue7183
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Visualpython-users] numpy array in random

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

Here's an idea about how to unpollute in a way that wouldn't break existing 
programs. Suppose one said "from visual2 import *" to get just the visual objects?

Bruce Sherwood

Guy K. Kloss wrote:
> Hi Symion,
> 
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:53:30 Symion wrote:
>> I have been using Visual.random number generators and have found that the
>>  following Methods return as numpy arrays, which when Printed or Evaluated
>>  returns a list that is not separated by the usual commas.
>>
>> from visual import *
> 
> Yes, this is one of the issues that I've been mentioning on the list before, 
> caused by the snowball imports that Visual is conducting under the bonnet in 
> the code (from math import *; from numpy import *).
> 
> Therefore the namespace is quite "polluted" with modules that are not from 
> Visual, but that also may behave in some way unexpected, as they come from 
> different packages.
> 
> In the case of random this originates from NumPy, and therefore returns 
> NumPy's ndarray structures.
> 
>> print visual.random.sample(5)  # floating point list with no commas
>> print visual.random.permutation(5) # Integer list with no commas
>> print visual.random.randint(1,46,5) # Integer list with no commas
>>
>> visual.safe_eval(str(visual.random.randint(1,46,5))) # generates error
>>
>> No commas between elements?!
> 
> The ndarray objects are *not* lists or tuples. But they do implement the 
> methods of the iterable interface so they behave in many ways like lists. As 
> for your observation, their __str__() method is implemented to print out 
> arrays separated by blanks, and not to use commas as separators, as well as 
> other rounding style, and some truncation style on very extensive arrays.
> 
>> A work around is to add .tolist()
> 
> Or to call the list constructor: list(a_numpy_array)
> 
>> visual.random.sample(5).tolist() # returns normal list of floats
>> visual.random.permutation(6).tolist()
>> visual.random.randint(1,46,5).tolist()
>> visual.safe_eval(str(visual.random.randint(1,46,5).tolist()))
> 
> Be very careful what's imported, and what you're using. It might be not what 
> you expect. That's also why an "from visual import *" can be quite dangerous 
> for your own code, as their name spaces are *very* full and may mask stuff 
> you're doing yourself.
> 
> Guy
> 

Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual on Ubuntu *Karmic*? Has *anyone* managed?

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

Apparently that was a good move to file that bug. Other people have become 
aware of it and are looking into it, now. Also people on the Python project 
itself, as the fix that modified the __doc__ behaviour might have some 
previously unexpected side effects as this one we're talking about. Anyway, 
here is their job ticket:
 
http://bugs.python.org/issue7183



-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

[Visualpython-users] boost versions ...

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

Hi,

having a go with different versions of visual and boost on different Ubuntu 
versions has just made me aware that the next problem is up on the horizon: 
Visual does not compile against Boost 1.40, at least here on my platform 
(Ubuntu Karmic)!

It might be worth to have a look into it before that version becomes more 
common, and more people will trip up over it.

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual on Ubuntu *Karmic*? Has *anyone* managed?

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

Just filed another bug on Launchpad against boost1.38:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boost1.38/+bug/457688

I've been told that an Ubuntu developer I know has been given the info that it 
probably won't be fixed in the release candidate (which is due tomorrow) or 
final Karmic, but could be fixed in karmic-updates once it's tracked down.

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

Re: [Visualpython-users] numpy array in random

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

Hi Symion,

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:53:30 Symion wrote:
> I have been using Visual.random number generators and have found that the
>  following Methods return as numpy arrays, which when Printed or Evaluated
>  returns a list that is not separated by the usual commas.
> 
> from visual import *

Yes, this is one of the issues that I've been mentioning on the list before, 
caused by the snowball imports that Visual is conducting under the bonnet in 
the code (from math import *; from numpy import *).

Therefore the namespace is quite "polluted" with modules that are not from 
Visual, but that also may behave in some way unexpected, as they come from 
different packages.

In the case of random this originates from NumPy, and therefore returns 
NumPy's ndarray structures.

> print visual.random.sample(5)  # floating point list with no commas
> print visual.random.permutation(5) # Integer list with no commas
> print visual.random.randint(1,46,5) # Integer list with no commas
> 
> visual.safe_eval(str(visual.random.randint(1,46,5))) # generates error
> 
> No commas between elements?!

The ndarray objects are *not* lists or tuples. But they do implement the 
methods of the iterable interface so they behave in many ways like lists. As 
for your observation, their __str__() method is implemented to print out 
arrays separated by blanks, and not to use commas as separators, as well as 
other rounding style, and some truncation style on very extensive arrays.

> A work around is to add .tolist()

Or to call the list constructor: list(a_numpy_array)

> visual.random.sample(5).tolist() # returns normal list of floats
> visual.random.permutation(6).tolist()
> visual.random.randint(1,46,5).tolist()
> visual.safe_eval(str(visual.random.randint(1,46,5).tolist()))

Be very careful what's imported, and what you're using. It might be not what 
you expect. That's also why an "from visual import *" can be quite dangerous 
for your own code, as their name spaces are *very* full and may mask stuff 
you're doing yourself.

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual and Python 3.x

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:29:28 Scott David Daniels wrote:
> There is a 2.6.4 coming out, you could check release candidate 2.6.4rc2
> 

Karmic is on 2.6.4 already. Didn't work with that one. I'm assuming that some 
incompatible changes were made, and Boost trips up over them.

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9585   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

[Visualpython-users] numpy array in random

[Symion <kn...@ip...>]

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<tt>Hi there,<br>
<br>
I have been using Visual.random number generators and have found that
the following Methods return as <br>
numpy arrays, which when Printed or Evaluated returns a list that is
not separated by the usual commas.<br>
<br>
from visual import *<br>
<br>
print visual.random.sample(5)&nbsp; # floating point list with no commas<br>
print visual.random.permutation(5)</tt><tt> # Integer list with no
commas</tt><br>
<tt>print visual.random.randint(1,46,5)</tt><tt> # Integer list with no
commas</tt><br>
<tt><br>
visual.safe_eval(</tt><tt>str(visual.random.randint(1,46,5))) #
generates error<br>
<br>
</tt><tt>No commas between elements?!<br>
<br>
A work around is to add .tolist()<br>
<br>
visual.random.sample(5).tolist() # returns normal list of floats<br>
visual.random.permutation(6).tolist()<br>
visual.random.randint(1,46,5).tolist()<br>
visual.safe_eval(str(visual.random.randint(1,46,5).tolist()))<br>
<br>
Symion</tt>
<br>
</body>
</html>