visualpython-users

[Visualpython-users] VPython and Python 3.1

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

Good news and bad news about Python 3. To my surprise and pleasure,
building VPython for Python 3.1 turned out (with one crucial
exception) to be very easy. No changes were necessary in the C++ code;
the Boost libraries just work. This is despite the fact that I've seen
a document that talks about rather significant changes required to
make an extension module written for Python 2 like Visual work with
Python 3. I guess that these changes have been taken care of in Boost.

For those components of Visual written in Python (for example,
primitives.py and graph.py), I ran them through the excellent 2to3
convertor that comes with Python and then made a few minor tweaks.
These converted files work without change on Python 2.7, because a lot
of work went into letting Python 2.7 handle both old and new syntax.
I'm really impressed by the excellent work that has gone into making
the 2 -> 3 transition as easy as possible.

All the demo programs work except for those that use the new 3D text
object (stonehenge, text3D). The problem is that there isn't a Python
3 version of FontTools, and my attempts to make one have failed. As
with the Visual .py files, I ran FontTools through the 2to3 convertor,
then made some minor adjustments having to do with the fact that in
Python 3 there is a clean distinction between strings (Unicode by
default) and byte arrays, whereas Python 2 programs (including
FontTools) often used strings to hold data. I'm currently stuck in the
getTableModule routine in FontTools/fontTools/ttLib/__init__.py. No
matter what I try, the __import__ statement always fails, despite the
fact that I can read the corresponding file in the same routine, as a
test. I'm unable to reproduce this import problem in an isolated test
case. So currently I'm stuck.

I've been doing this work on Windows; I don't expect things will be
different on other platforms.

Bruce Sherwood

Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately needed on the Mac

[Daniel <boy...@gm...>]

Hi all,

Joe this would be very useful!

Bruce makes a good point here: vpython is an extension to the python language.

Now it could be that I don't understand the code so bare with me - I'm just some one that uses python in all 3 platforms.

I think gnuplot has a similar problem I.e. A drawing engine that needs to render on MacOS with a native feel. They solved this problem by having a native client application, called AquaTerm which does all of the rendering.

For MacOS I could imagine a similar solution. Users download a nice vpyterm.app application that displays certain services to the system. Vpython would send drawing instructions to the terminal. It would do this through various ways of interprocess communication on MacOS using the Python Cocoa bridge to make direct calls to the Cocoa. This should be two way, so any interaction instructions can also be returned to vpython. The terminal app is a Cocoa based app that draws with open gl.

Does this move to much of the rendering code out of vp?

Best

Dan 


On 18 Aug 2010, at 00:45, Joe Heafner <hea...@gm...> wrote:

> 
> 
>> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:52:26 -0600
>> From: Bruce Sherwood <bas...@nc...>
>> Subject: Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately
>> 	needed on the Mac
>> 
>> No doubt that Qt is capable of producing cross-platform applications
>> with native look and feel, but the VPython situation is not one of
>> producing an "application" but an add-on to a programming language
>> (Python). Recall that experts on the Cocoa mailing list said that it
>> had been extremely difficult to get Java working in a Cocoa
>> environment, for the same reasons that it looks extremely difficult
>> for VPython (in particular, who owns the interact loop). And working
>> through Qt sounds even more indirect than what was apparently done for
>> Java.
>> 
>> So I should rephrase my question to ask whether there is reason to
>> hope that Qt could be used as a base for VPython on the Mac.
> 
> As my feeble attempt to add to this conversation, I offer the following.
> 
> Software Bisque (www.bisque.com) uses Qt for many (all?) of their flagship products. I know this because I  know one of their developers; we're star party buddies. He's also an OpenGL expert. I'll tell him about VPython (come to think of it, I've already shown it to him at least twice) and I'll see whether he thinks implementing Visual on OS X will work with Qt.
> 
> Joe Heafner
> Sent from my MacBook Pro
> 
> 
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Re: [Visualpython-users] Segmentation Fault

[Nicolas B. <nbi...@gm...>]

2010/8/17 Guenter Schneider <Gue...@ph...>

> I am not surprised that visual runs on nvidia. I never had problems before.
> For ATI cards the following worked for me (note that my problem was never a
> complete crash on import but a seg fault for particular commands, but it may
> work for you).
>
> import wx
> import visual
>
> The rational is that wx has proper initialization for opengl while visual
> does not.
>
> Guenter
>

Wow, ok, so that made it:

> $ python
> Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Aug 17 2010, 14:03:21)
> [GCC 4.5.1] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import wx
> >>> import visual
> >>> visual.sphere()
> i915_program_error: Exceeded max instructions
> <visual.primitives.sphere object at 0x22d47e0>
>
and I see a sphere.

I just tried my script and it seems to work. But it is really slow compared
to pymol with the same data, even on the intel card.. On the nvidia card,
it's blazing fast...

Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately needed on the Mac

[Joe H. <hea...@gm...>]

> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:52:26 -0600
> From: Bruce Sherwood <bas...@nc...>
> Subject: Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately
> 	needed on the Mac
> 
> No doubt that Qt is capable of producing cross-platform applications
> with native look and feel, but the VPython situation is not one of
> producing an "application" but an add-on to a programming language
> (Python). Recall that experts on the Cocoa mailing list said that it
> had been extremely difficult to get Java working in a Cocoa
> environment, for the same reasons that it looks extremely difficult
> for VPython (in particular, who owns the interact loop). And working
> through Qt sounds even more indirect than what was apparently done for
> Java.
> 
> So I should rephrase my question to ask whether there is reason to
> hope that Qt could be used as a base for VPython on the Mac.

As my feeble attempt to add to this conversation, I offer the following.

Software Bisque (www.bisque.com) uses Qt for many (all?) of their flagship products. I know this because I  know one of their developers; we're star party buddies. He's also an OpenGL expert. I'll tell him about VPython (come to think of it, I've already shown it to him at least twice) and I'll see whether he thinks implementing Visual on OS X will work with Qt.

Joe Heafner
Sent from my MacBook Pro

Re: [Visualpython-users] Segmentation Fault

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

This certainly sounds like a graphics driver problem. Just because
some 3D aspects work doesn't mean that all is well.

Bruce Sherwood

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Nicolas Bigaouette
<nbi...@gm...> wrote:
>> Curious that VPython works on one of you machines but not on two
>> others....
>
> I just though about it too and the only difference between these machines is
> that the failing one have integrated intel card, while the one which is
> working has an nvidia. 3D is working fine on the integrated card: I run
> KDE/kwin with composition on without any problem. I can even play some games
> on these machines...
>

Re: [Visualpython-users] Segmentation Fault

[Nicolas B. <nbi...@gm...>]

Thanx for your answer.

It's certainly not obvious what the problem is, but here are two small
> ideas:
>
Indeed...


> 1) Sometimes problems of this kind stem from a need to update the
> graphics drivers. I'm inclined to think that's not your problem,
> because you crash just trying to import visual, before creating any
> objects.
>
My driver is up to date: xf86-video-intel 2.12.0-1


> 2) I see that the visual machinery is in
> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages. I don't know anything about
> Arch-Linux, but on Ubuntu there was a recent change involving
> dist-packages as opposed to site-packages. Is it conceivable that your
> builds have put the newly compiled files somewhere not in
> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages, but there is something in
> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages that is corrupted?
>
VPython is installed in /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/visual/. The
package is built by Arch devs with:

> pythondir=`python -c "from distutils import sysconfig; print
> sysconfig.get_python_lib()"`
> unset PYTHONPATH
>   ./configure --prefix=/usr \
>               --with-example-dir=$pythondir/visual/demos
>


Curious that VPython works on one of you machines but not on two others....
>
I just though about it too and the only difference between these machines is
that the failing one have integrated intel card, while the one which is
working has an nvidia. 3D is working fine on the integrated card: I run
KDE/kwin with composition on without any problem. I can even play some games
on these machines...

Re: [Visualpython-users] Segmentation Fault

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

It's certainly not obvious what the problem is, but here are two small ideas:

1) Sometimes problems of this kind stem from a need to update the
graphics drivers. I'm inclined to think that's not your problem,
because you crash just trying to import visual, before creating any
objects.

2) I see that the visual machinery is in
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages. I don't know anything about
Arch-Linux, but on Ubuntu there was a recent change involving
dist-packages as opposed to site-packages. Is it conceivable that your
builds have put the newly compiled files somewhere not in
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages, but there is something in
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages that is corrupted?

Curious that VPython works on one of you machines but not on two others....

Bruce Sherwood

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Nicolas Bigaouette
<nbi...@gm...> wrote:
> Just a followup of my own message... I've recompiled python and visual with
> debug symbols. Here is the new stack trace:
> http://pastebin.com/zihsxktb
>
> Thanx
>
> 2010/8/17 Nicolas Bigaouette <nbi...@gm...>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've ported one of my script from PyMol to vpython and it's pretty neat.
>> But, I cannot use it on 2 of my machine as vpython is segfaulting. Just
>> importing visual is enough to segfault. Here is a gdb stacktrace:
>> http://pastebin.com/6vLzqjfb I couldn't see anything from it...
>>
>> I tried recompiling visual-5.32_release.tar.bz2 without success.
>>
>> I'm using ArchLinux x86_64
>> python 2.6.5-3
>> python-numpy 1.4.1-1
>> pkg-config 0.25-2
>> boost 1.43.0-1
>> gtkglextmm 1.2.0-4
>> libglademm 2.6.7-1
>> boost-libs 1.43.0-1
>> tk 8.5.8-2
>>
>> Thanx for any help!
>
>
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>
>

Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately needed on the Mac

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

No doubt that Qt is capable of producing cross-platform applications
with native look and feel, but the VPython situation is not one of
producing an "application" but an add-on to a programming language
(Python). Recall that experts on the Cocoa mailing list said that it
had been extremely difficult to get Java working in a Cocoa
environment, for the same reasons that it looks extremely difficult
for VPython (in particular, who owns the interact loop). And working
through Qt sounds even more indirect than what was apparently done for
Java.

So I should rephrase my question to ask whether there is reason to
hope that Qt could be used as a base for VPython on the Mac.

Bruce Sherwood

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Guy K. Kloss <g....@ma...> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 04:48:05 Bruce Sherwood wrote:
>> For those of you with broad experience, would you agree with Hugh that
>> Qt is the best currently available environment for a cross-platform
>> Visual?
>
> "Best" is always very subjective ... But I do think that Qt is a *very* good
> alternative to the problem. It's well proven and tested across the whole
> variety of platforms. Personally, that's what I would choose.
>
> BTW, also the Enthought guys are using Qt for their development, although,
> they do provide multiple front ends (wxWindows and Qt definitely).
>
>> I gather that the free GPL version of Qt would be fine for Visual?
>
> That would be by now the LGPL version of Qt. This leaves you with more option
> to also be able to use Qt for proprietary (non GPL) development.
>
> Guy
>
> --
> Guy K. Kloss
> Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
> Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
> Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
> 473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
> voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9266   fax: +64 9 441-8181
> G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by
>
> Make an app they can't live without
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>

Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual 5.32 now available for Python 2.7

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

Aha. I see that there is indeed now a numpy download for Python 3.1,
posted for the first time today!

I'll make a note about the beta numpy status on the vpython.org
download pages. I did check that VPython demo programs that use numpy
in a significant way work fine (gas, stars).

Bruce Sherwood

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 1:36 PM, James Mueller <mu...@pi...> wrote:
> Bruce,
>        Two points:
>
> 1) the 1.5 series supports BOTH python 3 as well as 2.7.  The major advance they made this year was discovering that they could support both from the same code base.
>
> 2) numpy-1.5.0b1 is the first BETA release of the 1.5 series.  Release notes for a VPython using this numpy should clearly state that it is beta.  In fact the second beta was release about 4 hours ago.
>
> -Jim
>
> On Aug 17, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:
>
>> Here's what I used.
>>
>> Windows: numpy-1.5.0b1-win32-superpack-python2.7.exe
>> Mac: numpy-1.5.0b1-py2.7-python.org.dmg
>>
>> So it's 1.5.0b1, but it's definitely for Python 2.7, not Python 3.
>>
>> FYI, I happened to use Boost 1.42 on Windows and Boost 1.43 on Mac.
>>
>> Bruce Sherwood
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 6:50 AM, James Mueller <mu...@pi...> wrote:
>>> Bruce,
>>>        Which version of numpy was used for this?  1.3.0, 1.4.1, 1.5.0b1? (I doubt it is the beta release of 1.5, as that is aimed at python 3.)
>>>
>>> -Jim
>>>
>>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 11:34 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:
>>>
>>>> Visual 5.32, which has been available for Python 2.6, is now available
>>>> for Python 2.7 for Windows and Mac.
>>>>
>>>> This became possible with the release of Numpy for Python 2.7.
>>>>
>>>> It has been announced that Python 2.7 will be the last of the Python
>>>> 2.x series. Major development is now concentrated on Python 3, the
>>>> first version of Python to have intentional incompatibilities with the
>>>> Python 2 series, though there are some tools in Python 2.7 for easing
>>>> the transition. There is not yet a version of Numpy for Python 3,
>>>> which is why there is no VPython yet for Python 3.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce Sherwood
>>>>
>>>> P.S. Technical note: The file MAC-OSX.txt in CVS now has much
>>>> simplified instructions for building the Boost libraries on a Mac.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by
>>>>
>>>> Make an app they can't live without
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>>>> Visualpython-users mailing list
>>>> Vis...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>

Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately needed on the Mac

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 04:48:05 Bruce Sherwood wrote:
> For those of you with broad experience, would you agree with Hugh that
> Qt is the best currently available environment for a cross-platform
> Visual?

"Best" is always very subjective ... But I do think that Qt is a *very* good 
alternative to the problem. It's well proven and tested across the whole 
variety of platforms. Personally, that's what I would choose.

BTW, also the Enthought guys are using Qt for their development, although, 
they do provide multiple front ends (wxWindows and Qt definitely).

> I gather that the free GPL version of Qt would be fine for Visual?

That would be by now the LGPL version of Qt. This leaves you with more option 
to also be able to use Qt for proprietary (non GPL) development.

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9266   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual 5.32 now available for Python 2.7

[James M. <mu...@pi...>]

Bruce,
	Two points:

1) the 1.5 series supports BOTH python 3 as well as 2.7.  The major advance they made this year was discovering that they could support both from the same code base.

2) numpy-1.5.0b1 is the first BETA release of the 1.5 series.  Release notes for a VPython using this numpy should clearly state that it is beta.  In fact the second beta was release about 4 hours ago.   

-Jim
 
On Aug 17, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

> Here's what I used.
> 
> Windows: numpy-1.5.0b1-win32-superpack-python2.7.exe
> Mac: numpy-1.5.0b1-py2.7-python.org.dmg
> 
> So it's 1.5.0b1, but it's definitely for Python 2.7, not Python 3.
> 
> FYI, I happened to use Boost 1.42 on Windows and Boost 1.43 on Mac.
> 
> Bruce Sherwood
> 
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 6:50 AM, James Mueller <mu...@pi...> wrote:
>> Bruce,
>>        Which version of numpy was used for this?  1.3.0, 1.4.1, 1.5.0b1? (I doubt it is the beta release of 1.5, as that is aimed at python 3.)
>> 
>> -Jim
>> 
>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 11:34 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:
>> 
>>> Visual 5.32, which has been available for Python 2.6, is now available
>>> for Python 2.7 for Windows and Mac.
>>> 
>>> This became possible with the release of Numpy for Python 2.7.
>>> 
>>> It has been announced that Python 2.7 will be the last of the Python
>>> 2.x series. Major development is now concentrated on Python 3, the
>>> first version of Python to have intentional incompatibilities with the
>>> Python 2 series, though there are some tools in Python 2.7 for easing
>>> the transition. There is not yet a version of Numpy for Python 3,
>>> which is why there is no VPython yet for Python 3.
>>> 
>>> Bruce Sherwood
>>> 
>>> P.S. Technical note: The file MAC-OSX.txt in CVS now has much
>>> simplified instructions for building the Boost libraries on a Mac.
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by
>>> 
>>> Make an app they can't live without
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>>> Visualpython-users mailing list
>>> Vis...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Visualpython-users] Segmentation Fault

[Nicolas B. <nbi...@gm...>]

Just a followup of my own message... I've recompiled python and visual with
debug symbols. Here is the new stack trace:
http://pastebin.com/zihsxktb

Thanx

2010/8/17 Nicolas Bigaouette <nbi...@gm...>

> Hi all,
>
> I've ported one of my script from PyMol to vpython and it's pretty neat.
> But, I cannot use it on 2 of my machine as vpython is segfaulting. Just
> importing visual is enough to segfault. Here is a gdb stacktrace:
> http://pastebin.com/6vLzqjfb I couldn't see anything from it...
>
> I tried recompiling visual-5.32_release.tar.bz2 without success.
>
> I'm using ArchLinux x86_64
> python 2.6.5-3
> python-numpy 1.4.1-1
> pkg-config 0.25-2
> boost 1.43.0-1
> gtkglextmm 1.2.0-4
> libglademm 2.6.7-1
> boost-libs 1.43.0-1
> tk 8.5.8-2
>
> Thanx for any help!
>

[Visualpython-users] Segmentation Fault

[Nicolas B. <nbi...@gm...>]

Hi all,

I've ported one of my script from PyMol to vpython and it's pretty neat.
But, I cannot use it on 2 of my machine as vpython is segfaulting. Just
importing visual is enough to segfault. Here is a gdb stacktrace:
http://pastebin.com/6vLzqjfb I couldn't see anything from it...

I tried recompiling visual-5.32_release.tar.bz2 without success.

I'm using ArchLinux x86_64
python 2.6.5-3
python-numpy 1.4.1-1
pkg-config 0.25-2
boost 1.43.0-1
gtkglextmm 1.2.0-4
libglademm 2.6.7-1
boost-libs 1.43.0-1
tk 8.5.8-2

Thanx for any help!

Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual 5.32 now available for Python 2.7

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

Here's what I used.

Windows: numpy-1.5.0b1-win32-superpack-python2.7.exe
Mac: numpy-1.5.0b1-py2.7-python.org.dmg

So it's 1.5.0b1, but it's definitely for Python 2.7, not Python 3.

FYI, I happened to use Boost 1.42 on Windows and Boost 1.43 on Mac.

Bruce Sherwood

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 6:50 AM, James Mueller <mu...@pi...> wrote:
> Bruce,
>        Which version of numpy was used for this?  1.3.0, 1.4.1, 1.5.0b1? (I doubt it is the beta release of 1.5, as that is aimed at python 3.)
>
> -Jim
>
> On Aug 16, 2010, at 11:34 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:
>
>> Visual 5.32, which has been available for Python 2.6, is now available
>> for Python 2.7 for Windows and Mac.
>>
>> This became possible with the release of Numpy for Python 2.7.
>>
>> It has been announced that Python 2.7 will be the last of the Python
>> 2.x series. Major development is now concentrated on Python 3, the
>> first version of Python to have intentional incompatibilities with the
>> Python 2 series, though there are some tools in Python 2.7 for easing
>> the transition. There is not yet a version of Numpy for Python 3,
>> which is why there is no VPython yet for Python 3.
>>
>> Bruce Sherwood
>>
>> P.S. Technical note: The file MAC-OSX.txt in CVS now has much
>> simplified instructions for building the Boost libraries on a Mac.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by
>>
>> Make an app they can't live without
>> Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Visualpython-users mailing list
>> Vis...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>

Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately needed on the Mac

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

This is a very useful suggestion.

At one time David Scherer and I searched for an appropriate
cross-platform environment that would offer native look and feel on
each platform, but at that time we didn't find what we were looking
for. I even tried using GTK on all platforms, Windows and Mac as well
as Linux, but the Windows GTK environment was horribly complex (see
http://vpython.org/gtkmm_on_windows.html), and of course the look and
feel was non-native on Windows and Mac. Moreover, as Scherer put it
(given the relationship between GTK and Gimp ( GNU Image Manipulation
Program), "using GTK on Windows is like importing all of Photoshop
into Visual".

For those of you with broad experience, would you agree with Hugh that
Qt is the best currently available environment for a cross-platform
Visual? I gather that the free GPL version of Qt would be fine for
Visual?

Bruce

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Hugh Fisher <hug...@an...> wrote:
>> From: Bruce Sherwood <bas...@nc...>
>>
>> If you have the necessary expertise to contribute to finding a way to
>> base VPython on Cocoa, please let me know!
>
> Redesigning Visual Python around a Qt core would give cross-platform
> with native look and feel for Macintosh and MS Windows. AFAIK Trolltech
> have rewritten a good chunk of Qt to run on Cocoa for the same reason of
> the transition to 64 bit.
>
> It wouldn't be as smooth for Linux (although Qt apps run perfectly well
> under GNOME) but I don't believe native look & feel and tight desktop
> integration is quite so important on Linux.
>
> Using Qt is banned by the current iPhone/iPad SDK license agreement, but
> Python interpreters were already banned so we'd be no worse off.
>
> --
>        Hugh Fisher
>        CECS, ANU
>
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Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual 5.32 now available for Python 2.7

[James M. <mu...@pi...>]

Bruce,
	Which version of numpy was used for this?  1.3.0, 1.4.1, 1.5.0b1? (I doubt it is the beta release of 1.5, as that is aimed at python 3.)

-Jim

On Aug 16, 2010, at 11:34 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

> Visual 5.32, which has been available for Python 2.6, is now available
> for Python 2.7 for Windows and Mac.
> 
> This became possible with the release of Numpy for Python 2.7.
> 
> It has been announced that Python 2.7 will be the last of the Python
> 2.x series. Major development is now concentrated on Python 3, the
> first version of Python to have intentional incompatibilities with the
> Python 2 series, though there are some tools in Python 2.7 for easing
> the transition. There is not yet a version of Numpy for Python 3,
> which is why there is no VPython yet for Python 3.
> 
> Bruce Sherwood
> 
> P.S. Technical note: The file MAC-OSX.txt in CVS now has much
> simplified instructions for building the Boost libraries on a Mac.
> 
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Re: [Visualpython-users] Visual 5.32 now available for Python 2.7

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:34:02 Bruce Sherwood wrote:
> There is not yet a version of Numpy for Python 3,
> which is why there is no VPython yet for Python 3.

FYI: There seems to be already a development release of NumPy with Py3k 
compatibility. So it looks like we'll be seeing it in the wild in the not too 
distant future:

http://www.mail-archive.com/num...@sc.../msg26524.html

Let's get ready for the ride ...

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9266   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately needed on the Mac

[Guy K. K. <g....@ma...>]

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:21:03 Hugh Fisher wrote:
> It wouldn't be as smooth for Linux (although Qt apps run perfectly well 
> under GNOME) but I don't believe native look & feel and tight desktop 
> integration is quite so important on Linux.

Don't get things confused here. Qt does and has always worked *very* well 
under Linux. And GNOME is *not* part of Linux, but just one popular desktop 
environment.

Qt has been developed from the very start to be cross platform for the 
environments UN*X/Linux, Mac and Wintendo. So, running a Qt app under Gnome is 
no different than running a Gtk app (e. g. Gimp) under KDE. And Gnome as well 
as KDE are pretty much interchangeable towards being usable as well as 
supported.

> Using Qt is banned by the current iPhone/iPad SDK license agreement, but 
> Python interpreters were already banned so we'd be no worse off.

The good thing is that Nokia bought Trolltech, and they're putting heavy loads 
of work in putting Qt onto everything mobile (Linux as well as Symbian based) 
as well as desktop. They're also using Python heavily for mobile apps, and 
they're developing PySide (LGPL PyQt replacement). So, let's see where this 
will all lead us, especially with the current Java issues on Android.

But this is going off on a tangent, now ...

Guy

-- 
Guy K. Kloss
Institute of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Te Kura Pūtaiao o Mōhiohio me Pāngarau
Massey University, Albany (North Shore City, Auckland)
473 State Highway 17, Gate 1, Mailroom, Quad B Building
voice: +64 9 414-0800 ext. 9266   fax: +64 9 441-8181
G....@ma... http://www.massey.ac.nz/~gkloss

Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately needed on the Mac

[Hugh F. <hug...@an...>]

> From: Bruce Sherwood <bas...@nc...>
> 
> If you have the necessary expertise to contribute to finding a way to
> base VPython on Cocoa, please let me know!

Redesigning Visual Python around a Qt core would give cross-platform 
with native look and feel for Macintosh and MS Windows. AFAIK Trolltech 
have rewritten a good chunk of Qt to run on Cocoa for the same reason of 
the transition to 64 bit.

It wouldn't be as smooth for Linux (although Qt apps run perfectly well 
under GNOME) but I don't believe native look & feel and tight desktop 
integration is quite so important on Linux.

Using Qt is banned by the current iPhone/iPad SDK license agreement, but 
Python interpreters were already banned so we'd be no worse off.

-- 
	Hugh Fisher
	CECS, ANU

Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately needed on the Mac

[Lenore H. <lh...@si...>]

Some things I use (gimp and gnucash for instance) have qt versions which enable them to run without X11 or Xquartz.  I don't know if that solves the problem or only adds one more layer to the interface.  

Lenore Horner

On Aug 16, 2010, at 11:50 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

> I should alert everyone to a ticking time bomb with respect to VPython
> on a Mac, in the hopes that someone in the community can contribute to
> a solution.
> 
> When the first native-mode Mac version of VPython was created, it
> didn't seem possible to base it on the Cocoa environment of the Mac,
> due to issues with threading. As I understand it (though I don't claim
> much expertise on the matter), the problem is that Cocoa wants to be
> the primary thread, yet to run a Python program Python has to start,
> then read a .py file, and in the VPython case establish threading of
> Python computations and periodic OpenGL graphics operations, all of
> which is antithetical to standard Cocoa architecture. In fact, in a
> Cocoa mailing list one expert said that just such conflicts had made
> it extremely difficult to implement Java within a Cocoa environment.
> 
> As a result, Mac VPython is based on the older Carbon environment,
> despite the fact that Apple is dropping support for Carbon and has in
> fact announced that Carbon will never run as a 64-bit environment. If
> at some point there is no 32-bit Python, there will be no way to
> produce a Carbon-based VPython. In that case, unless some way is found
> to implement a Cocoa-based VPython, the only way to have a Mac Python
> will be to revert to a "non-native" Unix-oriented version based on
> X11, without the standard Mac look and feel.
> 
> If you have the necessary expertise to contribute to finding a way to
> base VPython on Cocoa, please let me know!
> 
> Bruce Sherwood
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by 
> 
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Re: [Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately needed on the Mac

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

VPython on Linux is based on GTK, which I believe is related to gimp,
and before there was a native VPython for the Mac we used essentially
the same code on the Mac (the Unix side) as on Linux. So that's a
"solution" to which we might have to return, but many Mac users feel
uncomfortable with the resulting non-native look and feel.

Bruce Sherwood

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Lenore Horner <lh...@si...> wrote:
> Some things I use (gimp and gnucash for instance) have qt versions which enable them to run without X11 or Xquartz.  I don't know if that solves the problem or only adds one more layer to the interface.
>
> Lenore Horner
>
> On Aug 16, 2010, at 11:50 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:
>
>> I should alert everyone to a ticking time bomb with respect to VPython
>> on a Mac, in the hopes that someone in the community can contribute to
>> a solution.
>>
>> When the first native-mode Mac version of VPython was created, it
>> didn't seem possible to base it on the Cocoa environment of the Mac,
>> due to issues with threading. As I understand it (though I don't claim
>> much expertise on the matter), the problem is that Cocoa wants to be
>> the primary thread, yet to run a Python program Python has to start,
>> then read a .py file, and in the VPython case establish threading of
>> Python computations and periodic OpenGL graphics operations, all of
>> which is antithetical to standard Cocoa architecture. In fact, in a
>> Cocoa mailing list one expert said that just such conflicts had made
>> it extremely difficult to implement Java within a Cocoa environment.
>>
>> As a result, Mac VPython is based on the older Carbon environment,
>> despite the fact that Apple is dropping support for Carbon and has in
>> fact announced that Carbon will never run as a 64-bit environment. If
>> at some point there is no 32-bit Python, there will be no way to
>> produce a Carbon-based VPython. In that case, unless some way is found
>> to implement a Cocoa-based VPython, the only way to have a Mac Python
>> will be to revert to a "non-native" Unix-oriented version based on
>> X11, without the standard Mac look and feel.
>>
>> If you have the necessary expertise to contribute to finding a way to
>> base VPython on Cocoa, please let me know!
>>
>> Bruce Sherwood
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by
>>
>> Make an app they can't live without
>> Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>

[Visualpython-users] Visual 5.32 now available for Python 2.7

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

Visual 5.32, which has been available for Python 2.6, is now available
for Python 2.7 for Windows and Mac.

This became possible with the release of Numpy for Python 2.7.

It has been announced that Python 2.7 will be the last of the Python
2.x series. Major development is now concentrated on Python 3, the
first version of Python to have intentional incompatibilities with the
Python 2 series, though there are some tools in Python 2.7 for easing
the transition. There is not yet a version of Numpy for Python 3,
which is why there is no VPython yet for Python 3.

Bruce Sherwood

P.S. Technical note: The file MAC-OSX.txt in CVS now has much
simplified instructions for building the Boost libraries on a Mac.

[Visualpython-users] Cocoa-based VPython desperately needed on the Mac

[Bruce S. <bas...@nc...>]

I should alert everyone to a ticking time bomb with respect to VPython
on a Mac, in the hopes that someone in the community can contribute to
a solution.

When the first native-mode Mac version of VPython was created, it
didn't seem possible to base it on the Cocoa environment of the Mac,
due to issues with threading. As I understand it (though I don't claim
much expertise on the matter), the problem is that Cocoa wants to be
the primary thread, yet to run a Python program Python has to start,
then read a .py file, and in the VPython case establish threading of
Python computations and periodic OpenGL graphics operations, all of
which is antithetical to standard Cocoa architecture. In fact, in a
Cocoa mailing list one expert said that just such conflicts had made
it extremely difficult to implement Java within a Cocoa environment.

As a result, Mac VPython is based on the older Carbon environment,
despite the fact that Apple is dropping support for Carbon and has in
fact announced that Carbon will never run as a 64-bit environment. If
at some point there is no 32-bit Python, there will be no way to
produce a Carbon-based VPython. In that case, unless some way is found
to implement a Cocoa-based VPython, the only way to have a Mac Python
will be to revert to a "non-native" Unix-oriented version based on
X11, without the standard Mac look and feel.

If you have the necessary expertise to contribute to finding a way to
base VPython on Cocoa, please let me know!

Bruce Sherwood

[Visualpython-users] Vpython ' box ' rotation function

[Harinath R. <har...@gm...>]

Dear all,

I have the following python code which reads COM port and and graphical
object is rotated by the data coming from COM port.

# Test for Razor 9DOF IMU AHRS
# VPhyton, pyserial and pywin modules

from visual import *
import serial
import string
import math

from time import time

grad2rad = 3.141592/180.0

# Check your COM port and baud rate
ser = serial.Serial(port='COM4',baudrate=57600, timeout=1)

# Main scene
scene=display(title="9DOF Razor IMU test")
scene.range=(1.2,1.2,1.2)
#scene.forward = (0,-1,-0.25)
scene.forward = (1,0,-0.25)
scene.up=(0,0,1)

# Second scene (Roll, Pitch, Yaw)
scene2 = display(title='9DOF Razor IMU test',x=0, y=0, width=500,
height=200,center=(0,0,0), background=(0,0,0))
scene2.range=(1,1,1)
scene.width=500
scene.y=200

scene2.select()
#Roll, Pitch, Yaw
cil_roll =
cylinder(pos=(-0.4,0,0),axis=(0.2,0,0),radius=0.01,color=color.red)
cil_roll2 =
cylinder(pos=(-0.4,0,0),axis=(-0.2,0,0),radius=0.01,color=color.red)
cil_pitch =
cylinder(pos=(0.1,0,0),axis=(0.2,0,0),radius=0.01,color=color.green)
cil_pitch2 =
cylinder(pos=(0.1,0,0),axis=(-0.2,0,0),radius=0.01,color=color.green)
#cil_course =
cylinder(pos=(0.6,0,0),axis=(0.2,0,0),radius=0.01,color=color.blue)
#cil_course2 =
cylinder(pos=(0.6,0,0),axis=(-0.2,0,0),radius=0.01,color=color.blue)
arrow_course = arrow(pos=(0.6,0,0),color=color.cyan,axis=(-0.2,0,0),
shaftwidth=0.02, fixedwidth=1)

#Roll,Pitch,Yaw labels
label(pos=(-0.4,0.3,0),text="Roll",box=0,opacity=0)
label(pos=(0.1,0.3,0),text="Pitch",box=0,opacity=0)
label(pos=(0.55,0.3,0),text="Yaw",box=0,opacity=0)
label(pos=(0.6,0.22,0),text="N",box=0,opacity=0,color=color.yellow)
label(pos=(0.6,-0.22,0),text="S",box=0,opacity=0,color=color.yellow)
label(pos=(0.38,0,0),text="W",box=0,opacity=0,color=color.yellow)
label(pos=(0.82,0,0),text="E",box=0,opacity=0,color=color.yellow)
label(pos=(0.75,0.15,0),height=7,text="NE",box=0,color=color.yellow)
label(pos=(0.45,0.15,0),height=7,text="NW",box=0,color=color.yellow)
label(pos=(0.75,-0.15,0),height=7,text="SE",box=0,color=color.yellow)
label(pos=(0.45,-0.15,0),height=7,text="SW",box=0,color=color.yellow)

L1 = label(pos=(-0.4,0.22,0),text="-",box=0,opacity=0)
L2 = label(pos=(0.1,0.22,0),text="-",box=0,opacity=0)
L3 = label(pos=(0.7,0.3,0),text="-",box=0,opacity=0)

# Main scene objects
scene.select()
# Reference axis (x,y,z)
arrow(color=color.green,axis=(1,0,0), shaftwidth=0.02, fixedwidth=1)
arrow(color=color.green,axis=(0,-1,0), shaftwidth=0.02 , fixedwidth=1)
arrow(color=color.green,axis=(0,0,-1), shaftwidth=0.02, fixedwidth=1)
# labels
label(pos=(0,0,0.8),text="9DOF Razor IMU test",box=0,opacity=0)
label(pos=(1,0,0),text="X",box=0,opacity=0)
label(pos=(0,-1,0),text="Y",box=0,opacity=0)
label(pos=(0,0,-1),text="Z",box=0,opacity=0)
# IMU object
platform = box(length=1, height=0.05, width=1, color=color.red)
p_line = box(length=1,height=0.08,width=0.1,color=color.yellow)
plat_arrow = arrow(color=color.green,axis=(1,0,0), shaftwidth=0.06,
fixedwidth=1)


f = open("Serial"+str(time())+".txt", 'w')

roll=0
pitch=0
yaw=0
while 1:
    line = ser.readline()
    line = line.replace("!ANG:","")   # Delete "!ANG:"
    print line
    f.write(line)                     # Write to the output log file
    words = string.split(line,",")    # Fields split
    if len(words) >2:
        try:
            roll = float(words[0])*grad2rad
            pitch = float(words[1])*grad2rad
            yaw = float(words[2])*grad2rad
        except:
            print "Invalid line"
           # roll=0
           # pitch=0
           # yaw=0
           # words[0]=0
           # words[1]=0
           # words[2]=0
           # continue

        *axis=(cos(pitch)*cos(yaw),-cos(pitch)*sin(yaw),sin(pitch))*
        #print axis
        *
up=(sin(roll)*sin(yaw)+cos(roll)*sin(pitch)*cos(yaw),sin(roll)*cos(yaw)-cos(roll)*sin(pitch)*sin(yaw),-cos(roll)*cos(pitch))
*
       # print up
        platform.axis=axis
        platform.up=up
        platform.length=1.0
        platform.width=0.65
        plat_arrow.axis=axis
        plat_arrow.up=up
        plat_arrow.length=0.8
        p_line.axis=axis
        p_line.up=up
        cil_roll.axis=(0.2*cos(roll),0.2*sin(roll),0)
        cil_roll2.axis=(-0.2*cos(roll),-0.2*sin(roll),0)
        cil_pitch.axis=(0.2*cos(pitch),0.2*sin(pitch),0)
        cil_pitch2.axis=(-0.2*cos(pitch),-0.2*sin(pitch),0)
        arrow_course.axis=(0.2*sin(yaw),0.2*cos(yaw),0)
        L1.text = str(float(words[0]))
        L2.text = str(float(words[1]))
        L3.text = str(float(words[2]))
ser.close
f.close

===========================================================================================
here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuHRCnpcsDQ   is the video of what the
above code does.

I would like to know the *axis **, **up* functionality ( how the object is
rotated meaning that, how the rotation matrix is programmed in these
functions to get the rotation of the object)

Thanks for reading...

Regards
Harinath

Re: [Visualpython-users] building failure from visual-5.2_release.tar.bz2 on Mac OS X10.6.4

[K. U. <u.k...@gm...>]

Hi, all

I summarize my situation.
# I can NOT use fink package because of proxy.

0. Using packages from macports
  gtkglext @1.2.0_4 (active)
  gtkglextmm @1.2.0_0 (active)
  py26-numpy @1.4.1_1+gcc44+no_atlas (active)
  python26 @2.6.5_3+universal (active)
1. Using visual-5.32_release.tar.gz
2. Adding the patch. (attached [patch.txt]; these is some change before)
3. Executing "./configure --prefix=/opt/local && make"", I have built
cvisualmodule.so in site-packages.
4. "cd site-packages"  and "import visual" in python prompt cause the
crash(attached [py.log with 'python -vv']);
    $ python
    Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Jul 24 2010, 17:00:40)
    [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5659)] on darwin
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import visual
   Python(62032) malloc: *** error for object 0x1030cf6c0: pointer
being freed was not allocated
   *** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug
   Abort trap
6. the situation is same as in cvs source.

Could I avoid this crush with using macports ?
Where should I check ?

thanks,


2010/7/25 Bruce Sherwood <bas...@nc...>:
> I'm not competent to comment on the other issues you raise, but the
> answer to the question below is no, you can run VPython on MacOSX by
> installing the binaries available on the Mac download page at
> vpython.org. Or you can use the packages available in fink. It is not
> necessary to build from source to be able to use VPython on the Mac.
>
> Bruce Sherwood
>
> On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 8:17 AM, K. Uebayashi <u.k...@gm...> wrote:
>
>>
>> Is it the only way to use source-built visualpython in MacOSX?
>>
>
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