visualpython-users

Re: [Visualpython-users] What is IDLE?

[Andrew M. <mo...@tb...>]

Uncelievable!  I went back and re-read your other suggestions from the
previous thread.  After looking around on rpmfind, I could on lyfind the
libstdc++ for RedHat7.0.   I'm using RH6.2, but I decided to install
anyway.  Then, the visual python rpm actually installed cleanly!  So,
thanks for you help on that.

Now, I'm still left with my other question about IDLE.  If IDLE is just
the programming environment, I am guessing it is not included with the
visual python rpm.  I went to python.org and saw I could download
IDLE.  But, if I get that installed will it automatically use the visual
modules?

Also, I've tried running some of the demo programs.  Here's the output:

[morris@domra Demos]$ python1.5 orbit.py 
Visual-2000-11-26
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "orbit.py", line 1, in ?
    from visual import *
  File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/visual/__init__.py", line 12, in ?
    from Numeric import *
ImportError: No module named Numeric


Do I need to get a Numeric module?   

Sorry to be such a bother.   I have tried looking through the
documentation, but didn't really find any answers to these questions.

Andrew


On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Ari Heitner wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 03:58:32PM -0500, Andrew Morrison wrote:
> > 
> > Anyway, the reason I was looking at this was to try to run Vpython
> > (Windows version) with WINE on my redhat machine at school.  I haven't had
> > too much luck with compiling the source and getting it going as suggested
> > in the earlier thread.  I thought this might work, but so far, no go.
> > 
> 
> This is a bad idea. It will not work. Don't even bother.
> 
> The reason there is a nice friendly linux port for VPython is so that you
> can use it under Linux.
> 
> Repeat after me, "Linux version: Good! Windows version: bad!".
> 
> :)
> 
> Compiling the Linux version is easy. You just need to get RPMs (from
> rpmfind.net) for the libraries it needs -- primarily the Mesa/GL devel libs,
> and GtkGLArea4/5 (whatever, either will work) devel libs.
> 
> 
> 
> Ari
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
> 

Re: [Visualpython-users] What is IDLE?

[Ari H. <ahe...@an...>]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 03:58:32PM -0500, Andrew Morrison wrote:
> 
> Anyway, the reason I was looking at this was to try to run Vpython
> (Windows version) with WINE on my redhat machine at school.  I haven't had
> too much luck with compiling the source and getting it going as suggested
> in the earlier thread.  I thought this might work, but so far, no go.
> 

This is a bad idea. It will not work. Don't even bother.

The reason there is a nice friendly linux port for VPython is so that you
can use it under Linux.

Repeat after me, "Linux version: Good! Windows version: bad!".

:)

Compiling the Linux version is easy. You just need to get RPMs (from
rpmfind.net) for the libraries it needs -- primarily the Mesa/GL devel libs,
and GtkGLArea4/5 (whatever, either will work) devel libs.



Ari

Re: [Visualpython-users] What is IDLE?

[Andrew M. <mo...@tb...>]

Oops!!  I guess I should have looked more closely.   I was looking at the
"\tools\visual\" directory and the idle.bat was the only executable file
that I saw there, so naturally I assumed...   I was looking at the Windows
directory remotely, so I was just sort of trying to make an educated
guess.

Anyway, the reason I was looking at this was to try to run Vpython
(Windows version) with WINE on my redhat machine at school.  I haven't had
too much luck with compiling the source and getting it going as suggested
in the earlier thread.  I thought this might work, but so far, no go.

In case you're interested, Using WINE I have:

Installed Python2.0
Installed Vpython
Ran python.exe and pythonw.exe which both "exited with a successful
status"  (I don't know if that means that it worked or not, since I didn't
really get anything else.)

But, when trying to get python to run the idle.py WINE choked and died.

Oh well, back to recompiling, I guess.

Andrew
 

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

> I don't recognize these behaviors. The VPython installer (used after 
> installing Python 2.0 on Windows) creates an icon on the desktop which when 
> doubled-clicked invokes C:\Python20\Tools\idle\idle.pyw, not idle.bat (I 
> don't know under what circumstances idle.bat would be of any use). A 
> similar shortcut to idle.pyw is listed on the Start menu under Python 2.0 
> as "IDLE (Python GUI)". The puzzle is, where did you find a shortcut to 
> idle.bat?
> 
> Invoking idle.pyw brings up an editing environment, "IDLE", which was 
> modified by Dave Scherer from the standard one distributed with Python 2.0. 
> This modified version has many nice features for rapid edit/run cycles. 
> Press F5 to run, and your file is automatically saved and a (safe) separate 
> process is spawned to run your program. Print output goes to a separate 
> scrolling window which nicely packages output from consecutive runs if you 
> don't deliberately kill that window. Pressing F1 gives you useful 
> documentation on Python and on the Visual module.
> 
> Bruce Sherwood
> 
> --On Tuesday, April 10, 2001 12:54 -0500 Andrew Morrison 
> <mo...@tb...> wrote:
> 
> > When I install on Windows, I get a shortcut to idle.bat which is in my
> > C:\Python20\Tools\idle directory.  Looking at the file, I see that it
> > calls the "start" program from \Windows\Command to execute the idle.pyw
> > file in the same directory.
> >
> > The reason I am curious, is that I would like to know what IDLE is, as far
> > as Windows is concerned.  Is there a way to get into IDLE by calling an
> > executable program that is in the \Python20 directory?  If there is, I
> > haven't figured out how to do it, and I'd be curious to know if it is
> > possible or not.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
> 

Re: [Visualpython-users] What is IDLE?

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

I don't recognize these behaviors. The VPython installer (used after 
installing Python 2.0 on Windows) creates an icon on the desktop which when 
doubled-clicked invokes C:\Python20\Tools\idle\idle.pyw, not idle.bat (I 
don't know under what circumstances idle.bat would be of any use). A 
similar shortcut to idle.pyw is listed on the Start menu under Python 2.0 
as "IDLE (Python GUI)". The puzzle is, where did you find a shortcut to 
idle.bat?

Invoking idle.pyw brings up an editing environment, "IDLE", which was 
modified by Dave Scherer from the standard one distributed with Python 2.0. 
This modified version has many nice features for rapid edit/run cycles. 
Press F5 to run, and your file is automatically saved and a (safe) separate 
process is spawned to run your program. Print output goes to a separate 
scrolling window which nicely packages output from consecutive runs if you 
don't deliberately kill that window. Pressing F1 gives you useful 
documentation on Python and on the Visual module.

Bruce Sherwood

--On Tuesday, April 10, 2001 12:54 -0500 Andrew Morrison 
<mo...@tb...> wrote:

> When I install on Windows, I get a shortcut to idle.bat which is in my
> C:\Python20\Tools\idle directory.  Looking at the file, I see that it
> calls the "start" program from \Windows\Command to execute the idle.pyw
> file in the same directory.
>
> The reason I am curious, is that I would like to know what IDLE is, as far
> as Windows is concerned.  Is there a way to get into IDLE by calling an
> executable program that is in the \Python20 directory?  If there is, I
> haven't figured out how to do it, and I'd be curious to know if it is
> possible or not.

[Visualpython-users] What is IDLE?

[Andrew M. <mo...@tb...>]

I have gone back to the Windows version of Vpython, in an effort to better
understand how it works.

When I install on Windows, I get a shortcut to idle.bat which is in my 
C:\Python20\Tools\idle directory.  Looking at the file, I see that it
calls the "start" program from \Windows\Command to execute the idle.pyw
file in the same directory.  

Am I correct so far?   Because now, I don't really know what is going
on.   I have never used this "start" program, so I don't know what it
does.   

The reason I am curious, is that I would like to know what IDLE is, as far
as Windows is concerned.  Is there a way to get into IDLE by calling an
executable program that is in the \Python20 directory?  If there is, I
haven't figured out how to do it, and I'd be curious to know if it is
possible or not.

Thanks!

Andrew

[Visualpython-users] Re: Is this possible

[<Art...@rs...>]

>> Now if I can get the plane to rotate interactively with the mouse.

Not sure its relevant to where you are going, but in the
geometry stuff I'm playing with, I have a plane defined
by three "points" and manipulate the plane position with 
the mouse by picking and moving any of the points which
define it.

You could constrain it by only having only one or two of the points
pickable, visible.

ART

[Visualpython-users] Re: is this possible?

[heafnerj <hea...@vn...>]

On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, heafnerj wrote:

> I want to write a VPython prog that demonstrates flux. I envsion being
> able to display a vector field with a fixed orientation in space and
> simultaneously orient a plane so as to vary the flux of the field through
> the plane. Manipulating the plane is very simple, but what about doing
> that WHILE keeping the field vectors fixed? Is this possible?
> 
Well, it's amazing what 30 minutes can do, because that's how long it took
me to figure out how to do this. The trick is to use a rotating frame. Now
if I can get the plane to rotate interactively with the mouse.

Joe

--
My Book <http://www.willbell.com/new/fundephcomp.htm>
My Home Page <http://users.vnet.net/heafnerj/>
CVAC Home Page <http://users.vnet.net/heafnerj/cvac.html>
PLEASE -- no Microsoft attachments! I will not read them!

[Visualpython-users] is this possible?

[heafnerj <hea...@vn...>]

Hi.

I want to write a VPython prog that demonstrates flux. I envsion being
able to display a vector field with a fixed orientation in space and
simultaneously orient a plane so as to vary the flux of the field through
the plane. Manipulating the plane is very simple, but what about doing
that WHILE keeping the field vectors fixed? Is this possible?

Many thanks,
Joe Heafner

--
My Book <http://www.willbell.com/new/fundephcomp.htm>
My Home Page <http://users.vnet.net/heafnerj/>
CVAC Home Page <http://users.vnet.net/heafnerj/cvac.html>
PLEASE -- no Microsoft attachments! I will not read them!

Re: [Visualpython-users] Re: Beopen v2.0 for Win

[Larry W. <lw...@ca...>]

I looked through the logs created by Zonealarm and found that most references
were for the local host 127.0.0.1:7454 so this would appear to be of no
consequence for security. Not having really been aware of Python's manner of
communicating I find this behaviour unusual but in retrospect it does make
sense. Obviously Zonealarm is behaving in a highly suspicious nature but with
the 50+ probes of my system in the last 3 months I am glad to have it installed
even if it causes the occasional query of legitimate behaviour. Thanks to those
who responded promptly for pointing me in the right direction.
Larry



John Pickard wrote:

> To all,
>
> The use of Zone Alarm affects me when I am running Apache server, for
> testing CGI and also for Linear Devices data CD-ROM which also operates
> as a server.
>
> I have no problems with this because the PC is not connected via the
> 'phone line.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Pickard
>
> In message <240...@HY...>, Bruce Sherwood
> <ba...@an...> writes
> >--On Friday, March 30, 2001 11:26 -0400 David Scherer
> ><dsc...@mi...> wrote:
> >
> >> Zonealarm is apparently objecting to idle's use of sockets to communicate
> >> between the ide process and the program. The IDE does indeed become a
> >> "server" but only to localhost, so there should be no security or privacy
> >> implications. Zonealarm probably does not recognize this case.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Visualpython-users mailing list
> >Vis...@li...
> >http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
> --
> John Pickard

[Visualpython-users] Re: question about Linux and VPython

[Ari H. <ahe...@an...>]

On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:42:53PM -0400, David Scherer wrote:
> I'm glad you like VPython.  Ari maintains the linux build, and is more
> likely to be able to answer your question correctly.
> 

Yeah. The best place to have sent this would have been the visualpython-users
list ...

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Heafner [mailto:hea...@tw...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:01 PM
> > To: dsc...@us...
> > Subject: question about Linux and VPython
> >
> >
> > I'm currently running VPython on both WinME and Linux, and I have a
> > question about the rpm package from the VPython page. I retrieved it and
> > when I tried to install it, I got a dependency for libgtkgl.so.4. So I
> > installed this package (gtkglarea, or something like that), which
> > contained libgtkgl.so.5. The rpm still wants to see libgtkgl.so.5. Do

I haven't tried just linking them; I'm sure it would work if it was just
compiled against GtkGLArea5. You can try symlinking them. Or you can get the
source package, compile cvisualmodule.so (that's what will build in the
cvisual/ directory if you type 'make') and sticking that on top of the one
provided by the package (after doing a force-install).

I should produce some new packages that let you use gtkglarea5 (the current
version in Debian as well). I'll try to do that. I was hoping to finish up
my current feature (frame.color or whatever it is i'm doing) but i don't
know when i will -- i've been going crazy with IBM stuff as well.





ari

RE: [Visualpython-users] Question about lights

[David S. <dsc...@vy...>]

> >> Is it possible to modify the source such that one of the lights is a
> >> spotlight?  I am wanting to model placing a narrow beam on an object.
>
> >No, sorry.  This could be added to cvisual using >projective
> texture mapping,
> >but that's a completely different technique from >normal lighting.
>
> The reason I asked the question as a lighting question is that I
> know OpenGL has a spotlight capability that lets the user specify
> the half angle of the light source, making it into a spotlight.
> I was hoping that a similar capability might be addable /
> klugeable (if I were to code it) to VPython.

The first problem is that cvisual currently only uses OpenGL for
rasterization, and does its own lighting calculations.  This approach was
chosen primarily to improve accuracy when rendering scenes with very small
or very large scales, which is common when doing physics with real units.
It improves speed on slower systems, but actually slows things down on fast
rendering hardware.

You could implement exactly the same effect in visual, but the rendering
quality will not be great.  OpenGL lighting, including spotlights, are
calculated at each vertex rather than at each pixel.  Shining a "narrow
beam" on a low-polygon model, as you want to do, will produce pretty severe
artifacts.

Projective texture mapping, in which a texture of a circular spotlight is
mapped onto the model with an appropriate blending mode, is a much
higher-quality way of rendering a spotlight.  However, implementing it will
require some work - it will have to be added to each primitive.

Dave

RE: [Visualpython-users] Question about lights

[David S. <dsc...@vy...>]

> Is it possible to modify the source such that one of the lights is a
> spotlight?  I am wanting to model placing a narrow beam on an object.

No, sorry.  This could be added to cvisual using projective texture mapping,
but that's a completely different technique from normal lighting.

Dave

Re: [Visualpython-users] Biot-Savart animated GIFs with VPython

[Markus G. <gr...@iu...>]

"Highland, Stephen Ray" wrote:

> I've finally put some animated GIFs together using VPython and could
> use your advice to make them better.  Take a look at
> http://comp.uark.edu/~shighla and follow the link to "Biot-Savart
> law animations."  I'm going to test them out on some student victims
> this week, but I hope anyone who's willing to look at them will send
> in comments, too! I built them "the hard way" by copying and pasting
> window images using VPython programs that interpolate
> scene.range,scene.center, and scene.forward.  I tacked on some
> captions later. I'm eager to hear what you think.  Thanks, Steve
> Highland

They look really nice.  The way you make them ("the hard way") seems
to me like a LOT of boring work.  Maybe you can automate this process
a little bit by automatically export every frame of your animation to
a POVray file by using the povexport.py module.  This can be done
automatically in your interpolation programs.  After this you can
batch-render all the images with POVray.  This way you will get
smoother images and automate the process by avoiding the boring manual
copy/paste cycle.

Give it a try, rendering won't take long, it will probably be faster
than manually copying/pasting the frames.

Markus

Re: [Visualpython-users] fix/hack for hanging program

[Markus G. <gr...@iu...>]

Fred Yankowski wrote:

> David,
>
> Thank you for considering this problem.  I look forward to getting an
> updated VPython that fixes the problem without requiring my hack.
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 11:52:04AM -0500, David Scherer wrote:
> > This is fairly embarrassing, and also rather puzzling - why is it working
> > for everyone except Fred?

Fred's residue.py also hangs on my machine from time to time.  I have a P200,
Diamond Viper V550 16MB.

Markus

[Visualpython-users] Question about lights

[<Do...@ao...>]

Is it possible to modify the source such that one of the lights is a 
spotlight?  I am wanting to model placing a narrow beam on an object.

Thanks,
Wayne

[Visualpython-users] Biot-Savart animated GIFs with VPython

[Highland, S. R. <sh...@ua...>]

I've finally put some animated GIFs together using VPython and could use =
your advice to make them better.  Take a look at

http://comp.uark.edu/~shighla

and follow the link to "Biot-Savart law animations."  I'm going to test =
them out on some student victims this week, but I hope anyone who's =
willing to look at them will send in comments, too!

I built them "the hard way" by copying and pasting window images using =
VPython programs that interpolate scene.range,scene.center, and =
scene.forward.  I tacked on some captions later.

I'm eager to hear what you think.  Thanks,

Steve Highland

[Visualpython-users] (no subject)

[<Art...@ao...>]

Bruce asked -

>>Sorry to be dense, but could you explain what this is and what it is for? 

One can create classes sub-classed from UserVector, adding whatever methods
and attributes one might need to extend the VPython vector, but use this 
"extended" vector as one might use the standard vector in VPython code.  And
the object created from the sub-class can interact with the native VPython 
vector, e.g one can "cross(v1,v2)" where v1 is inherited from UserVector and 
v2
is a native VPython vector.

>Perhaps a paragraph of intent/utility could be included in the module? 
>And/or a routine at the end illustrating its use?

Yeah being a little lazy there.  

I am using the UserVector in a dynamic geometry toy I have been iterating 
over for some time and now brining over to VPython.

It is mostly a self-education exercise - programming, graphics, synthetic 
geometry, analytic geometry, matrix algebra.  Considering my starting point
on all these subjects, I know how much I have gotten from the process and
have become quite an enthusiast of Python\Numeric as an educational tool
and see VPython as a perfect extension.

I do hope to have something to show interested folks in a few days - so I 
would
hope you might have a look at it and see from it how I utilized the 
UserVector.

ART

Re: [Visualpython-users] Can't load cvisual on win32 machine.

[LUK S. <ce...@po...>]

Bruce Sherwood wrote:
> 
> >From what you say, it must be that there are significant differences
> between Python 2.0 and Python 2.1. I think you're the first person to try
> Python 2.1 as the base for Visual. Presumably we'll need to recompile under
> Python 2.1 at some point. You comment that an older version of Numeric
> doesn't work; it's not a surprise that Visual doesn't either.

I've not tried python 2.1 (,yet) but (hope) may be the problem is only
Numeric.
I remember seeing that somewhere you have to get Numeric 18 to work with
Python 2.1 

> 
> This sounds a bit troubling. I have not followed Python itself closely
> recently, but it doesn't sound wonderful if 2.1 invalidates modules that
> worked on 2.0.

I felt that too.

BTW, does vpython compiled under win9x mingw/cygwin gcc?  

Good day,
ST
--

Re: [Visualpython-users] UserVector

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

--On Friday, March 30, 2001 19:22 -0600 Art...@rs... wrote:

> Attached is a stab at a UserVector which can
> disguise itself as and interact with VPython vectors.
>
> I am used it subclassed three and four levels and it
> seems to hold up.
>
> Comments, suggestions quite welcome.
>
> ART

Sorry to be dense, but could you explain what this is and what it is for? 
Perhaps a paragraph of intent/utility could be included in the module? 
And/or a routine at the end illustrating its use?

Bruce Sherwood

[Visualpython-users] UserVector

[<Art...@rs...>]

Attached is a stab at a UserVector which can 
disguise itself as and interact with VPython vectors.

I am used it subclassed three and four levels and it
seems to hold up. 

Comments, suggestions quite welcome.

ART

[Visualpython-users] Re: Beopen v2.0 for Win

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

--On Friday, March 30, 2001 11:26 -0400 David Scherer 
<dsc...@mi...> wrote:

> Zonealarm is apparently objecting to idle's use of sockets to communicate
> between the ide process and the program. The IDE does indeed become a
> "server" but only to localhost, so there should be no security or privacy
> implications. Zonealarm probably does not recognize this case.
>
> Dave

Re: [Visualpython-users] Video Problems

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

--On Friday, March 30, 2001 09:33 -0500 DJ Connor <dj_...@ho...> 
wrote:

> I am VERY new to vpython and am just trying to get a demo to run on my
> computer.  I have loaded a few demo programs (including glinfo.py) and
> tried to run them and nothing happens (a sepate display window never
> opens at all).  I am running vpython on a P2-266 with a NeoMagic 128bit
> 2MB video card and my operating system is Win2000.  The solution may be a
> very simple one so all suggestions are welcome.

Are you trying to run from IDLE (starting from the desktop icon), or by 
double-clicking glinfo.py? If the latter, you would only see a black DOS 
window briefly and no regular output window. However, if you double-click 
any of the other programs (e.g. bounce2.py), you should see a 3D animation.

One thing to try is to go to the web site of your video card manufacturer 
and download the latest version of the video driver for Win2000. This is 
often the problem, because VPython uses the OpenGL graphics machinery, and 
video driver support for OpenGL has been improving with time.

Bruce Sherwood

Re: [Visualpython-users] Can't load cvisual on win32 machine.

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

From what you say, it must be that there are significant differences 
between Python 2.0 and Python 2.1. I think you're the first person to try 
Python 2.1 as the base for Visual. Presumably we'll need to recompile under 
Python 2.1 at some point. You comment that an older version of Numeric 
doesn't work; it's not a surprise that Visual doesn't either.

This sounds a bit troubling. I have not followed Python itself closely 
recently, but it doesn't sound wonderful if 2.1 invalidates modules that 
worked on 2.0.

If you want to try VPython right now, the thing to do is to install Python 
2.0.

Bruce Sherwood

[Visualpython-users] Video Problems

[DJ C. <dj_...@ho...>]

I am VERY new to vpython and am just trying to get a demo to run on my 
computer.  I have loaded a few demo programs (including glinfo.py) and tried 
to run them and nothing happens (a sepate display window never opens at 
all).  I am running vpython on a P2-266 with a NeoMagic 128bit 2MB video 
card and my operating system is Win2000.  The solution may be a very simple 
one so all suggestions are welcome.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Visualpython-users] Beopen v2.0 for Win (fwd)

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

Any ideas? Sounds very bizarre.

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Date: Thursday, March 29, 2001 23:50 -0800
From: Larry Watts <lw...@ca...>
To: je...@py...
Subject: Beopen v2.0 for Win

> Hi
>  This might be old news but I recently installed this version along with
> VPython of 030801 from the Visual Python web site on my home Win98
> machine that has Zone Alarm installed. When I start up idle which has
> been modified by the Vpython folks I get a warning message occasionally
> asking if I want pythonw.exe to be a server and when I try to run one of
> examples programs from idle I again am asked if I wish to let
> pythonw.exe access the internet. Is this the norm? Is ET trying to phone
> home or what? If I say no then the example program (bounce.py) doesn't
> run. If I say yes then it appears to work properly, and I am obviously a
> little paranoid about this behaviour since when I have run this at work
> on Win NT4 from behind a firewall and no ZoneAlarm I have never noted
> this behaviour. Is Zonealarm correct or is it being fooled by something
> inherent in the python code?
>
> Larry Watts
>
> lw...@ca...
> lw...@bc...
>

---------- End Forwarded Message ----------