visualpython-users

Re: [Visualpython-users] MacEnthon

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 09:26 -0500, Gary Pajer wrote:
> Gary Pajer wrote:
> 
> > Many of you have probably seen the recent unveiling of "MacEnthon"
> >
> > http://www.scipy.org/wikis/featurerequests/MacEnthon
> >
> > It's a all-in-one scientific package for python, similar to Enthought 
> > Python for windows, including scipy, matplotlib, ipython ....   The 
> > author says that "The goal is to make something that a user can 
> > install and have running without installing anything else, so it is 
> > going to use the pre-installed Python (or install its own in the case 
> > of Python 2.4)."
> >
> > It is a "framework" package.
> 
> [...]
> 
> >
> > So ... is this new development providing enough reason to develop a 
> > "framework" vpython?
> > (Asked in ignorance of the technical details, and a sense of the level 
> > of effort needed.)
> >
> > -gary
> 
> 
> I've had an off-line discussion with someone about the feasibility of 
> doing this.  I think that neither of us is competent to comment with 
> authority.
> 
> I've taken a quick look at the mailing list archives, and I conclude 
> that I can't conclude anything.  I suspect that if it were 
> straightforward, someone would have already done it.  (If someone has 
> done it and reported to this list, and I'm just blind, please speak up.)   
> 
> No one has yet commented here, which makes me wonder if there is no 
> interest.   While I understand that all of us already have working 
> versions of visual, this development promises (I think) to make life 
> much easier for newcomers and for us in the future.
> 
> MacEnthon is the first and only thing that I've seen that makes me want 
> to consider MacPython/"framework"  python. I have no experience with 
> it.  If there are good reasons for not using it (other than visual 
> python unavailability) I'd appreciate hearing what they are.
> 
> I stopped maintaining my Mac at OS 10.2.6.  Do I understand correctly 
> that OS 10.3 adopts MacPython as the native python?  IIRC,  OS 10.2.x 
> actually had three pythons available, the native one, MacPython and 
> Fink's python.  Ugh.
> 
> In truth, I had my Mac removed while 10.2.6 was current.  It was too 
> much trouble ... impossible in some cases  ... to maintain the python 
> packages I wanted (matplotlib, e.g.).  I understand that 10.3 is easier 
> because the fink packages are being currently maintained for 10.3.    
> But we still have Macs in the labs.  I have not taken on the task of 
> installing visual on them, although I think I will have to by next 
> September when I start teaching M&I.  The installation and maintenance 
> issues were prohibitive. 
> 
> So you see how much easier my task (and that of others) would be to have 
> a simply installed package, and one that does not require the additional 
> complication of  Fink.  Hence the compelling nature of MacEnthon, and my 
> desire to have visual run with it.  I wish I had the skills to do it 
> myself. 
> 
> -gary

It's doable, and mostly just requires a lot of hand-waving in Autoconf's
direction.  First, you would build FSF G++ 3.3.4 and Boost.Python 1.31
with the FSF compiler, and install them into /usr/local.  Building
Boost.Python will require the most work - I still need to do a write-up
on it.  Then configure Visual with:

CXX=/usr/local/bin/g++-3.3.4 CXXFLAGS="-O2 -finline-functions"
CPPFLAGS="-I/sw/include" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-framework,Python"
PYTHON=/usr/bin/python ../visual-3.0.2/configure
--prefix=/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3

Note that even going this route, you will still depend on the Gtk+ and
gtkglarea libs from Fink.

Hopefully that will get you pointed in the right direction.

-Jonathan

Side note: The main reason that we do not provide a framework build of
Visual against the Apple-supplied Python 2.3, is that the Apple-supplied
Python does not provide Idle or TkInter.  The second reason is that it
would be a major pain to also build and ship a complete set of gtk+
libs, independent of the Fink project.

Re: [Visualpython-users] MacEnthon

[Gary P. <gp...@ri...>]

Gary Pajer wrote:

> Many of you have probably seen the recent unveiling of "MacEnthon"
>
> http://www.scipy.org/wikis/featurerequests/MacEnthon
>
> It's a all-in-one scientific package for python, similar to Enthought 
> Python for windows, including scipy, matplotlib, ipython ....   The 
> author says that "The goal is to make something that a user can 
> install and have running without installing anything else, so it is 
> going to use the pre-installed Python (or install its own in the case 
> of Python 2.4)."
>
> It is a "framework" package.

[...]

>
> So ... is this new development providing enough reason to develop a 
> "framework" vpython?
> (Asked in ignorance of the technical details, and a sense of the level 
> of effort needed.)
>
> -gary


I've had an off-line discussion with someone about the feasibility of 
doing this.  I think that neither of us is competent to comment with 
authority.

I've taken a quick look at the mailing list archives, and I conclude 
that I can't conclude anything.  I suspect that if it were 
straightforward, someone would have already done it.  (If someone has 
done it and reported to this list, and I'm just blind, please speak up.)   

No one has yet commented here, which makes me wonder if there is no 
interest.   While I understand that all of us already have working 
versions of visual, this development promises (I think) to make life 
much easier for newcomers and for us in the future.

MacEnthon is the first and only thing that I've seen that makes me want 
to consider MacPython/"framework"  python. I have no experience with 
it.  If there are good reasons for not using it (other than visual 
python unavailability) I'd appreciate hearing what they are.

I stopped maintaining my Mac at OS 10.2.6.  Do I understand correctly 
that OS 10.3 adopts MacPython as the native python?  IIRC,  OS 10.2.x 
actually had three pythons available, the native one, MacPython and 
Fink's python.  Ugh.

In truth, I had my Mac removed while 10.2.6 was current.  It was too 
much trouble ... impossible in some cases  ... to maintain the python 
packages I wanted (matplotlib, e.g.).  I understand that 10.3 is easier 
because the fink packages are being currently maintained for 10.3.    
But we still have Macs in the labs.  I have not taken on the task of 
installing visual on them, although I think I will have to by next 
September when I start teaching M&I.  The installation and maintenance 
issues were prohibitive. 

So you see how much easier my task (and that of others) would be to have 
a simply installed package, and one that does not require the additional 
complication of  Fink.  Hence the compelling nature of MacEnthon, and my 
desire to have visual run with it.  I wish I had the skills to do it 
myself. 

-gary

Re: [Visualpython-users] Building visual on SuSE 9.2 Pro

[overbyte <ove...@ea...>]

Thanks again, Jonathan.  I'll track down Gtk 1.2.x -devel package;  if
it's not on SuSE 9.2, I have earlier releases 9.1 and 8.0.  If
necessary, I'll download it from the gtk.org site.

Stan

> On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 16:57 -0500, Jonathan Brandmeyer wrote:

> 
> Gtk+ 2.x is a completely different package from Gtk+ 1.2.  VPython needs
> Gtk+ 1.2.x.  You need to get the development package for Gtk+ 1.x, _NOT_
> 2.x.
> 
> Python does not provide a .pc file for pkg-config.  Visual's configure
> script uses other means to figure out the information it needs to
> compile against Python.
> 
> 
> > So I tried "pkg-config --modversion gtk+-2.0" and wahoo!  I got a reply
> > of "2.4.9".
> >    It seems to me that the gtk+ package in this distribution is named
> > gtk+-2.0.  Probably this was a change made by the gtk development team
> > in this new release level 2.x.x.  I doubt that Novell/SuSE made such a
> > name change to this application package.   Maybe I can satisfy the
> > configure script by creating some links to give more generic alias names
> > to the actual packages, but I don't know the extent to which I have to
> > rename things (directories, files, libraries, etc.) and what that might
> > break.  Most likely a small change to the configure script and makefile
> > will handle this name discrepancy for all who use this and other
> > distributions having the 2.x.x releases of gtk.
> > 
> > Stan
> 
> This won't work.  Gtk+ 2.x is both ABI and API incompatible with Gtk+
> 1.2, which is why the Gtk+ developers raised the major version number.
> 
> I do not have access to a SUSE 9.2 system to figure out what the right
> package is, and Novell/SUSE does not make this information publicly
> available, as far as I can see.  So, you will have to figure out which
> package provides the development versions of the libraries for Gtk+ 1.2.
> The last thing that I heard was that the package was named "gtk+-devel",
> which is why I mentioned that name in the INSTALL.txt file.  When you
> find out what the right package is for SUSE 9.2, please let me know so
> that I can update the installation notes.
> 
> Sorry,
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Visualpython-users] Building visual on SuSE 9.2 Pro

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 08:42 -0800, overbyte wrote:
> Thanks for your suggestion Jonathan.  I was pretty sure I installed the
> development package.  So I tried "pkg-config --modversion gtk+" but all
> I got was 3 lines of "sh: gtk-config: command not found".  Then I tried
> "pkg-config --modversion python" just to see if it found python
> (although maybe that's not a proper package name -- didn't look it up)
> and I got an error message tellimg e to add to directory named in
> PKG_CONFIG_PATH env variable.  So I looked at that path variable and
> listed the directories in the path.  In /opt/gnome/lib/pkgconfig I found
> the gtk ".pc" files as follows:
> 
> gtk+-2.0.pc
> gtk-doc.pc
> gtk-engines-2.pc
> gtkhex.pc
> gtksourceview-1.0.pc
> gtk+-x11-2.0.pc

Gtk+ 2.x is a completely different package from Gtk+ 1.2.  VPython needs
Gtk+ 1.2.x.  You need to get the development package for Gtk+ 1.x, _NOT_
2.x.

Python does not provide a .pc file for pkg-config.  Visual's configure
script uses other means to figure out the information it needs to
compile against Python.


> So I tried "pkg-config --modversion gtk+-2.0" and wahoo!  I got a reply
> of "2.4.9".
>    It seems to me that the gtk+ package in this distribution is named
> gtk+-2.0.  Probably this was a change made by the gtk development team
> in this new release level 2.x.x.  I doubt that Novell/SuSE made such a
> name change to this application package.   Maybe I can satisfy the
> configure script by creating some links to give more generic alias names
> to the actual packages, but I don't know the extent to which I have to
> rename things (directories, files, libraries, etc.) and what that might
> break.  Most likely a small change to the configure script and makefile
> will handle this name discrepancy for all who use this and other
> distributions having the 2.x.x releases of gtk.
> 
> Stan

This won't work.  Gtk+ 2.x is both ABI and API incompatible with Gtk+
1.2, which is why the Gtk+ developers raised the major version number.

I do not have access to a SUSE 9.2 system to figure out what the right
package is, and Novell/SUSE does not make this information publicly
available, as far as I can see.  So, you will have to figure out which
package provides the development versions of the libraries for Gtk+ 1.2.
The last thing that I heard was that the package was named "gtk+-devel",
which is why I mentioned that name in the INSTALL.txt file.  When you
find out what the right package is for SUSE 9.2, please let me know so
that I can update the installation notes.

Sorry,
Jonathan

[Visualpython-users] More info on problem building VPython with gtk+-2.0 on SuSE 9.2 Pro Linux

[overbyte <ove...@ea...>]

Jonathan,

Here's another piece of info that may help unravel the problem.  I
listed another directory in the package configuration search path and
here's the output:

--------------

overbyte@linux:~> cat /usr/lib/pkgconfig/pygtk-2.0.pc
prefix=/usr
exec_prefix=/usr
includedir=/usr/include
datadir=/usr/share

# you can use the --variable=pygtkincludedir argument to
# pkg-config to get this value.  You might want to use this to
# install additional headers.
pygtkincludedir=${includedir}/pygtk-2.0

# same here.  Useful when calling the code generator in addon packages.
defsdir=${datadir}/pygtk/2.0/defs
codegendir=${datadir}/pygtk/2.0/codegen

Name: PyGTK
Description: Python bindings for GTK+ and related libraries
Requires: gobject-2.0
Version: 2.2.0
Cflags: -I${pygtkincludedir}


--------------
Stan

Re: [Visualpython-users] Building visual on SuSE 9.2 Pro

[overbyte <ove...@ea...>]

Thanks for your suggestion Jonathan.  I was pretty sure I installed the
development package.  So I tried "pkg-config --modversion gtk+" but all
I got was 3 lines of "sh: gtk-config: command not found".  Then I tried
"pkg-config --modversion python" just to see if it found python
(although maybe that's not a proper package name -- didn't look it up)
and I got an error message tellimg e to add to directory named in
PKG_CONFIG_PATH env variable.  So I looked at that path variable and
listed the directories in the path.  In /opt/gnome/lib/pkgconfig I found
the gtk ".pc" files as follows:

gtk+-2.0.pc
gtk-doc.pc
gtk-engines-2.pc
gtkhex.pc
gtksourceview-1.0.pc
gtk+-x11-2.0.pc

So I tried "pkg-config --modversion gtk+-2.0" and wahoo!  I got a reply
of "2.4.9".
   It seems to me that the gtk+ package in this distribution is named
gtk+-2.0.  Probably this was a change made by the gtk development team
in this new release level 2.x.x.  I doubt that Novell/SuSE made such a
name change to this application package.   Maybe I can satisfy the
configure script by creating some links to give more generic alias names
to the actual packages, but I don't know the extent to which I have to
rename things (directories, files, libraries, etc.) and what that might
break.  Most likely a small change to the configure script and makefile
will handle this name discrepancy for all who use this and other
distributions having the 2.x.x releases of gtk.

Stan


On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 06:23 -0500, Jonathan Brandmeyer wrote:
> On Sun, 2004-11-28 at 21:16 -0800, overbyte wrote:
> > While trying to install VPython on SuSE 9.2 Pro (the latest release from
> > Novell/SuSE which just arrived this month), I get a fatal error message
> > from the configure script.  It's complaining that I don't have Gtk+ .
> > I've checked the package list in the SuSE package installer (YAST) and
> > it says the system has packages called gtk and gtk2, which both refer to
> > themselves as versions of Gtk+, however, there's nothing actually called
> > Gtk+ or gtk+ in the system. There isn't a libgtk or directory gtk
> > except /usr/lib/gtk which contains only themes.  I even did a complete
> > file search for a name gtk+ and didn't find one. Does anyone have any
> > suggestion on where I go from here?
> 
> You are probably missing the development version of the package,
> possibly named gtk-devel.  When you have it installed, the command
> `pkg-config --modversion gtk+` should print out 1.2.x, for some value of
> x (on my system, 10).
> 
> Make sure to install the development versions of all the required
> dependencies.
> 
> HTH,
> -Jonathan Brandmeyer
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. 
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> _______________________________________________
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> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users

Re: [Visualpython-users] Building visual on SuSE 9.2 Pro

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

On Sun, 2004-11-28 at 21:16 -0800, overbyte wrote:
> While trying to install VPython on SuSE 9.2 Pro (the latest release from
> Novell/SuSE which just arrived this month), I get a fatal error message
> from the configure script.  It's complaining that I don't have Gtk+ .
> I've checked the package list in the SuSE package installer (YAST) and
> it says the system has packages called gtk and gtk2, which both refer to
> themselves as versions of Gtk+, however, there's nothing actually called
> Gtk+ or gtk+ in the system. There isn't a libgtk or directory gtk
> except /usr/lib/gtk which contains only themes.  I even did a complete
> file search for a name gtk+ and didn't find one. Does anyone have any
> suggestion on where I go from here?

You are probably missing the development version of the package,
possibly named gtk-devel.  When you have it installed, the command
`pkg-config --modversion gtk+` should print out 1.2.x, for some value of
x (on my system, 10).

Make sure to install the development versions of all the required
dependencies.

HTH,
-Jonathan Brandmeyer

[Visualpython-users] Building visual on SuSE 9.2 Pro

[overbyte <ove...@ea...>]

While trying to install VPython on SuSE 9.2 Pro (the latest release from
Novell/SuSE which just arrived this month), I get a fatal error message
from the configure script.  It's complaining that I don't have Gtk+ .
I've checked the package list in the SuSE package installer (YAST) and
it says the system has packages called gtk and gtk2, which both refer to
themselves as versions of Gtk+, however, there's nothing actually called
Gtk+ or gtk+ in the system. There isn't a libgtk or directory gtk
except /usr/lib/gtk which contains only themes.  I even did a complete
file search for a name gtk+ and didn't find one. Does anyone have any
suggestion on where I go from here?

I tried to build on my prior installed SuSE 9.1 Pro, but I was stumped
by an internal error in g++ at the end of a long compilation.  So I
waited for 9.2 to be released with the newer compiler, only to run into
this configure problem.  

Stan Sokolow

[Visualpython-users] MacEnthon

[Gary P. <gp...@ri...>]

Many of you have probably seen the recent unveiling of "MacEnthon"

http://www.scipy.org/wikis/featurerequests/MacEnthon

It's a all-in-one scientific package for python, similar to Enthought 
Python for windows, including scipy, matplotlib, ipython ....   The 
author says that "The goal is to make something that a user can install 
and have running without installing anything else, so it is going to use 
the pre-installed Python (or install its own in the case of Python 2.4)."

It is a "framework" package.

I use the Mac less and less these days, but it is a fixture around here, 
so it won't go away.   I've been *more* than comfortable with the fink 
set-up, and in fact, I wish the MacEnthon effort was a fink package.  
But it's not.

The advertised ease of setup of MacEnthon has *great* appeal:   single 
click installation.   I think the attraction to MacEnthon is going to be 
enormous, leaving us to decide between a complete (too much, in fact) 
scientific environment installed with a single click, *without* vpython, 
versus the rather pesky fink vpython, along with a raft of other 
individual packages, some of which are not updated regularly.

So ... is this new development providing enough reason to develop a 
"framework" vpython?
(Asked in ignorance of the technical details, and a sense of the level 
of effort needed.)

-gary

Re: [Visualpython-users] VPython and TkAqua

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

On Wed, 2004-11-17 at 11:59 -0700, Owen Densmore wrote:
> Looking in the archives, I did not see anything definitive about using 
> VPython with the MacPython/TkAqua package.  I did not succeed in doing 
> so.

> First, I downloaded and installed vpython, and the demos ran fine, 
> using the default x11 Tk windows.  Great!

To be specific - VPython does not use Tk.  There is one demo program
that uses TkInter from Python, but Visual itself is still using Gtk+.
You cannot change this behavior right now.

> I then installed TkAqua, then installed the MacPython "additional 
> packages" which includes an IDE and package manager.  I used the 
> package manager to install tkinter, which successfully uses TkAqua.
> 
> Thus I get to the point that I can run both TclTk and Python with Aqua 
> windows rather than the X11 windows.  Very sweet!
> 
> However, when I modify the VPython script to use the above, by changing 
> it to use /usr/bin/pythonw rather than /sw/bin/python (below), it dies 
> because it cannot find the visual package.

Option #1: Build VPython from source against the MacPython package
yourself.

Option #2: Copy the components of Visual
from /sw/lib/python2.3/site-packages to the site-packages directory of
the MacPython build, and pray that the two are binary compatable.  If
they are not, you will probably get one or more weird crashes.

Note that in either case, Visual will still need to build against the
Gtk package in /sw, since it uses that library for its own window(s).  

Also, you may not be able to use the TkAqua package in conjunction with
Visual at all.  It is known to be incompatible with PyGtk, for example.

HTH,
-Jonathan

[Visualpython-users] VPython and TkAqua

[Owen D. <ow...@ba...>]

Looking in the archives, I did not see anything definitive about using 
VPython with the MacPython/TkAqua package.  I did not succeed in doing 
so.

First, I downloaded and installed vpython, and the demos ran fine, 
using the default x11 Tk windows.  Great!

I then installed TkAqua, then installed the MacPython "additional 
packages" which includes an IDE and package manager.  I used the 
package manager to install tkinter, which successfully uses TkAqua.

Thus I get to the point that I can run both TclTk and Python with Aqua 
windows rather than the X11 windows.  Very sweet!

However, when I modify the VPython script to use the above, by changing 
it to use /usr/bin/pythonw rather than /sw/bin/python (below), it dies 
because it cannot find the visual package.

Now, I'm a newbie to python, so am not aware of how to import packages 
etc for a program like vpython.  I know the MacPython package manager 
can download and install the Numeric package, but it does not have a 
pointer to the visual package.

Is there a simple way for me to modify my startup script to use the 
/sw/../visual package?  Is this the right approach?  I suspect not, 
because there are likely built-in x11 dependencies in the visual 
package itself.

Thanks

	-- Owen

Owen Densmore         908 Camino Santander   Santa Fe, NM 87505
Cell: 505-570-0168    Home: 505-988-3787     http://backspaces.net


#! /bin/sh
PYTHON=/usr/bin/pythonw
visualdemodir=/sw/lib/python2.3/site-packages/visual/demos
visualidledir=/sw/lib/python2.3/idlelib
cd $visualdemodir
$PYTHON $visualidledir/idle

[Visualpython-users] Restricted posting

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

As the result of spam addressed to this mailing list, I've restricted 
posts to members. Please let me know if this causes more problems than 
it solves!

Bruce Sherwood

Re: [Visualpython-users] controls

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

Please use plain-text email in the future.

On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 16:31 -0500, Jon Schull wrote:
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> Greetings
> 
> I'm playing with visual.controls and want to mention 3 issues.
> ####### Issue1:  I can't position the controls window. Help?

This is because Gtk+ version 1.2 does not support moving windows from
within the program itself at all.  Even under Gtk+ 2.0, moving a window
only represents a request to the window manager to do so, and the window
manager may not honor your request.

> ######   Issue2: it is apparently impossible to subclass vpython
> objects.  
> ######
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-November/018952.html

The poster in that thread was correct - a visual.sphere was not a class
at all, but a free function that returned a cvisual.DisplayObject, which
could not be safely subclassed.  Thanks to Boost.Python, that is no
longer the case.  

See the thread "Subclassing cvisual classes is cool" from August 1,
2004.  Be sure to read my reply, since that represents the "official"
documentation at this time.  At some point, a section will be added to
the documentation under a title like "Advanced Topics" or somesuch that
will talk about subclassing Visual classes and other things.

> ###### Issue3: 
> ######  But I can simulate the effect I want by adding attributes
> (including methods) to an object. FYI.
> ######  (This should be documented shouldn't it?)  Comment?

This has been a standard property of all Python classes since at least
Python 2.2.

HTH,
-Jonathan Brandmeyer

Re: [Visualpython-users] controls

[Jon S. <js...@so...>]

Greetings

I'm playing with visual.controls and want to mention 3 issues.
#######  Issue1:  I can't position the controls window.  Help?

######   Issue2: it is apparently impossible to subclass vpython 
objects.
######   
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-November/018952.html

###### Issue3:
######  But I can simulate the effect I want by adding attributes 
(including methods) to an object. FYI.
######  (This should be documented shouldn't it?)  Comment?

These Issues are illustrated in the snippet below, which creates a 
variant slider that displays an ID and its current value.

Visual 3.0 -2003-10-05, Mac OSX 10.3

Comments welcome.

from visual.controls import *

#######  Issue1:  I can't position the controls window.
c=controls(x=800)  # Issue 1:
print c.display.x
####### this confirms that the value of 800 'took', but it has no 
consequence.  Help?

###### Issue2: it is apparently impossible to subclass vpython objects.
######   
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2002-November/018952.html
######  (This should be documented shouldn't it?)  Comment?

###### Issue3:
######  But I can simulate the effect by adding attributes (including 
methods) to an object. FYI.
def jslider2(**args):
     self=slider(**args)
     #########  create the object, passing all arguments up to the 
"parent"
     self.label=label(display=c.display, pos=(self.pos[0] , 
self.pos[1]+self.length),  text=str(self.value), box=0 )

     #########  turn the optional attribute ID into the text of a label
     if 'ID' in args:
         self.ID=label(display=c.display, pos=self.pos,  
text=args['ID'], box=0 )

     #########  Create an internal function to
     def showVal(obj, intify=0):
         if intify:  obj.value=int(round(obj.value))
         obj.label.text=str(obj.value)

     ######### make showVal the "action" attribute
     self.action=lambda:showVal(self, intify=0)

     return self

if __name__=='__main__':
     scene.autoscale=0
     sph=sphere()
     b2=box(pos=(2,2))

     s22 = jslider2(ID='s2', pos=(-30,-50), width=7, length=50, 
axis=(0,1,0) )
     while 1:
         c.interact()
         sph.radius=1+s22.value

Re: [Visualpython-users] VPython and Pentium 4 HT conflict

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

On Fri, 2004-11-05 at 14:54 -0800, Bruce Peterson wrote:
> Jonathan
>     This will be a rather long message as I am attaching some of our 
> correspondence of mid-August.  The problem was (and still is with the Nov 
> 04 release) that my application using the new VPython will run fine on a 
> standard P4 but when run on a P4 with HT will run for several to a dozen or 
> so iterations before crashing and getting the "send error to MS" window. 
> Reverting to the old (Nov 03) VPython eliminates this problem.
> 
> The conversation ended with (at least in my mind) the problem being some 
> conflict between the Pentium hyper-threading and the Visual Python 
> libraries that hopefully would be resolved with a newer release.
> BTW -- the app (with the Nov 03 VPython libraries) is at 
> www.terastat.com/VisualFilter.htm, as I mentioned it's rather complex -- I 
> can stick a version with the new VPython out on the web if you're interested.

Can you put up a link to a tarball or zip archive of the source?


>  > Well its looking more and more like the problems are due to the HT-P4 and
>  > how it handles VPython. Using the old VPython (oct 2003), I can launch
>  > multiple copies of the client, and the server will create multiple,
>  > synchronized, Vpython displays -- this on a Dell Xeon 2.1 GHZ processor.
>  > When I attempt to do this on the P4-HT notebook -- only the first instance
>  > runs, the second can't find the server.
>  > One on the joys of Python is that I can run my server code as a standalone
>  > application (for testing) with no code changes. When I do this, I can run
>  > two copies on both the Xeon and P4-HT machines.  So it appears that
>  > software threading has problems on the P4-HT -- and the new VPython
>  > aggravates these.
> 
> Since the language binding between Python and C++ was completely
> replaced, some functions are a little slower, and a few functions are a
> pinch faster than before.  This small difference in timing (plus the
> availability of an HT Pentium and a dual-proc PowerMac) exposed several
> latent threading bugs in VPython during development.  At least one is
> still unresolved (stereo displays may be blank under unknown
> conditions).

It turned out that my hunch with regard to this particular bug was flat
wrong - the bug was an uninitialized value error that caused the camera
to slew left and right by an undefined (and typically very large) amount
when in stereo mode.  You could work around the bug by setting
display.stereodepth to some known value (like what the default should
have been: 0.0).

-Jonathan

[Visualpython-users] VPython and Pentium 4 HT conflict

[Bruce P. <bap...@te...>]

Jonathan
    This will be a rather long message as I am attaching some of our 
correspondence of mid-August.  The problem was (and still is with the Nov 
04 release) that my application using the new VPython will run fine on a 
standard P4 but when run on a P4 with HT will run for several to a dozen or 
so iterations before crashing and getting the "send error to MS" window. 
Reverting to the old (Nov 03) VPython eliminates this problem.

The conversation ended with (at least in my mind) the problem being some 
conflict between the Pentium hyper-threading and the Visual Python 
libraries that hopefully would be resolved with a newer release.
BTW -- the app (with the Nov 03 VPython libraries) is at 
www.terastat.com/VisualFilter.htm, as I mentioned it's rather complex -- I 
can stick a version with the new VPython out on the web if you're interested.

Bruce Peterson


 >>>Snip<<<<

>Do you know if the problems with Intel's Hyper Threading processors were
>fixed in this release?
>
> >>> Snip <<<<
>
>I can't recall the details of the discussion that I think you are
>referencing - can you refresh my memory?
>
>Thanks,
>-Jonathan

On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 13:45, Bruce Peterson wrote:
 > Jonathan-
 >   I'm sending this to you rather than the Visual Python list because this
 > is not (I
 > think) directly a Visual Python problem. I'm hoping your experience in
 > debugging
 > across multiple platforms may provide some insight.
 >
 > I have a fairly complex app that uses a client-server architecture with 
Visual
 > being run in a threaded server and controlled by a client interface. This
 > allows

Are the client and server programs running as separate processes or as
multiple Python interpreters within the same process?

 > changes to a Visual animation to be made on the fly.

Sounds pretty cool.  IIRC, you went with this design because VPython
didn't support event-loop based GUI programs, right?

It may interest you to know that the next major release of VPython will
contain an object tentatively named "display_kernel".  It manages all of
the GL scenegraph-like functionality, while not including any windowing
system-specific code.  The idea is that you can wrap around or inherit
from this class to provide toolkit-specific windowing and GL context
management to create a custom display object.

If you happen to know some C++, you might want to look at the
'vpython-core2' module in CVS.  It doesn't completely quite work in
Windows yet, and doesn't include bindings to Python, either, but they
are coming soon.  The files of most interest in this matter are
include/display_kernel.hpp and src/core/display_kernel.cpp

 >  To distribute this app, I
 > use Py2exe to roll it into an executable (plus all the support files Py2exe
 > finds)
 > and then use the Wise installation system to make a distributable.
 >
 > When I installed the new Visual Python upgrade, I went through the above
 > falderal and then tested on multiple machines. My development box is WinXP
 > and I
 > also tested another WinXP box and a virtual WinXP (using the VirtualPC
 > emulator) machine. I also tested on a Win2K box and a virtual Win2K
 > machine. All
 > worked as expected.
 >
 > The problem is a WinXP  notebook. When I run the VisualPython animation 
on the
 > notebook WinXP -- it runs for awhile then crashes  to the Windows error
 > reporting
 > dialog. From the variable run time to crash I think it may be related to
 > garbage

About how much time does it take to crash: right away, a few seconds,
several minutes?  If you are running the program with some set of
delays, like rate() or blocking read(), does removing them cause the
test case to crash proportionally faster?

 > collection-- but why only on this one machine escapes me.
 > If it was a dll
 > being
 > omitted in the distribution I would see problems on the other test
 > machines.

It most likely would fail to start at all, with a very different error.

 >  Of
 > course simpler test programs don't have this problem (the problem app 
does data
 > animation with fairly large arrays of data in memory).

Are you using Numeric for these arrays or some custom type?

Are you using curve, convex, or faces?  If so, are you performing
appends, block operations, or both?

 > The previous version of Visual didn't have this problem, so it does appear
 > to be somehow
 > related to the new version of Visual.
 >
 >
 > Any insights would be appreciated.
 >
 > BTW -- good work on maintaining and upgrading Visual Python -- its by 
far the
 > easiest tool for creating 3D animations I've run across.

 >  I would hope that the next version would be able to use the hardware
 > acceleration available on many graphics cards. It appears that
 > currently  Vpython is running "generic" for compatibility, which means
 > having a high end graphics card does no good for increasing speed.
 > Hardware acceleration may allow effects like variable transparency to
 > be implemented.

The hardware support stuff is already done :)  Most of the objects
support translucency, with the current exceptions of ring, curve,
convex, and faces.  (convex may support it before I'm done).


 > > Are you using curve, convex, or faces?  If so, are you performing
 > > appends, block operations, or both?
 >
 > I use curve directly but not convex or faces. I use curve to show a
 > variable length history of prior states so I'm continually appending
 > and slicing the curve. Again the history length is user controllable
 > so one option is no history -- and this doesn't appear to affect the
 > crash rate.
 >
 > One other difference I've noted is that the notebook is the newest of
 > the machines and uses "hyper threading" -- I would think any such
 > hardware threading would be below the level of user programs and
 > therefore transparent -- but maybe not.

It is semi-transparent.  The result of running VPython on an HT-enabled
P4 is that the render and Python threads run truly simultaneously rather
than merely asynchronously.

Are the curves "thin", or do they have some radius set?

Thanks,
-Jonathan
 > >
 > >It is semi-transparent.  The result of running VPython on an HT-enabled
 > >P4 is that the render and Python threads run truly simultaneously rather
 > >than merely asynchronously.
 >
 > Well its looking more and more like the problems are due to the HT-P4 and
 > how it handles VPython. Using the old VPython (oct 2003), I can launch
 > multiple copies of the client, and the server will create multiple,
 > synchronized, Vpython displays -- this on a Dell Xeon 2.1 GHZ processor.
 > When I attempt to do this on the P4-HT notebook -- only the first instance
 > runs, the second can't find the server.
 > One on the joys of Python is that I can run my server code as a standalone
 > application (for testing) with no code changes. When I do this, I can run
 > two copies on both the Xeon and P4-HT machines.  So it appears that
 > software threading has problems on the P4-HT -- and the new VPython
 > aggravates these.

Since the language binding between Python and C++ was completely
replaced, some functions are a little slower, and a few functions are a
pinch faster than before.  This small difference in timing (plus the
availability of an HT Pentium and a dual-proc PowerMac) exposed several
latent threading bugs in VPython during development.  At least one is
still unresolved (stereo displays may be blank under unknown
conditions).

Re: [Visualpython-users] VPython 3.02

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

On Wed, 2004-11-03 at 09:39 -0800, Bruce Peterson wrote:
> Do you know if the problems with Intel's Hyper Threading processors were 
> fixed in this release?

I can't recall the details of the discussion that I think you are
referencing - can you refresh my memory?

Thanks,
-Jonathan

[Visualpython-users] VPython 3.02

[Bruce P. <bap...@te...>]

Do you know if the problems with Intel's Hyper Threading processors were 
fixed in this release?


At 09:03 PM 11/2/2004, you wrote:

>Send Visualpython-users mailing list submissions to
>         vis...@li...
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         vis...@li...
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
>         vis...@li...
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of Visualpython-users digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. VPython 3.0.2 released (Jonathan Brandmeyer)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>From: Jonathan Brandmeyer <jbr...@ea...>
>To: "Vis...@li..." 
><Vis...@li...>
>Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:32:10 -0500
>Subject: [Visualpython-users] VPython 3.0.2 released
>
>This release fixes a bug that caused stereo rendering to sporadically
>fail.  The method of failure is the appearance of a blank window when
>scene.stereo is set to anything other than "nostereo".
>
>All platforms are affected, although this problem may appear to vary
>from one machine to another (even using the same OS), or from one
>invocation of Python to the next.
>
>You can download this release from our Sourceforge project page, here:
>http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6013
>
>The files will appear on www.vpython.org shortly.
>
>-Jonathan Brandmeyer
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>_______________________________________________
>Visualpython-users mailing list
>Vis...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>
>End of Visualpython-users Digest

Bruce Peterson
425 466 7344 

[Visualpython-users] VPython 3.0.2 released

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

This release fixes a bug that caused stereo rendering to sporadically
fail.  The method of failure is the appearance of a blank window when
scene.stereo is set to anything other than "nostereo".

All platforms are affected, although this problem may appear to vary
from one machine to another (even using the same OS), or from one
invocation of Python to the next.

You can download this release from our Sourceforge project page, here:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6013

The files will appear on www.vpython.org shortly.

-Jonathan Brandmeyer

[Visualpython-users] Animation Capture

[Bruce P. <bap...@te...>]

At 07:27 PM 10/24/2004, you wrote:


>    1. RE: Bitmap Rendering (Joel Kahn)
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 03:12:44 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Joel Kahn <jj...@ya...>
>To: vis...@li...
>Subject: [Visualpython-users] RE: Bitmap Rendering
>
>Bruce Peterson described a method of using a screen
>capture utility from the Image Library to grab a
>series of frames that can be later hooked up to make
>an animation. I'm wondering if anyone has available
>any actual code implementing what he laid out. With my
>still-limited knowledge, I'm not sure how well I could
>put it all together just from Bruce's prose; I need to
>know more about exactly which commands to use and how
>to use them. Plus, of course, we all want to avoid
>wheel re-invention when we can. :-)
>
>Joel

Joel
    I've attached some sample code using the VPython ball bounce example. A 
number of items are hard coded in -- like the directories -- that you may 
wish to change before testing it.
=========================code begins ===========================
import win32gui
import Image
from visual import *
from os.path import *

def animate_something():
     strTitle="Demo Screen Capture"
     strSaveFile="C:/temp/capfile.jpg"
     demoscr=display(title=strTitle,width=800, height=600)
     demoscr.select()
     blnQuit=False
     blnCapture=False
     framecount=0

     side = 4.0
     thk = 0.3
     s2 = 2*side - thk
     s3 = 2*side + thk
     wallR = box (pos=( side, 0, 0), length=thk, 
height=s2,  width=s3,  color = color.red)
     wallL = box (pos=(-side, 0, 0), length=thk, 
height=s2,  width=s3,  color = color.red)
     wallB = box (pos=(0, -side, 0), length=s3,  height=thk, 
width=s3,  color = color.blue)
     wallT = box (pos=(0,  side, 0), length=s3,  height=thk, 
width=s3,  color = color.blue)
     wallBK = box(pos=(0, 0, -side), length=s2,  height=s2,  width=thk, 
color = (0.7,0.7,0.7))

     ball = sphere (color = color.green, radius = 0.4)
     ball.mass = 1.0
     ball.p = vector (-0.15, -0.23, +0.27)

     side = side - thk*0.5 - ball.radius

     dt = 0.5
     t=0.0
     while not blnQuit:
         if demoscr.kb.keys:
             ukey=demoscr.kb.getkey()
             if ukey=='Q':
                 blnQuit=True
             elif ukey=='C':
                 blnCapture=not blnCapture


         t = t + dt
         ball.pos = ball.pos + ball.p*(dt/ball.mass)
         if not (side > ball.x > -side):
             ball.p.x = -ball.p.x
         if not (side > ball.y > -side):
             ball.p.y = -ball.p.y
         if not (side > ball.z > -side):
             ball.p.z = -ball.p.z

         if blnCapture:
             rate(1)
             framecount+=1
             my_scrndump(strTitle,demoscr,strSaveFile,framecount)
         rate(99)

     demoscr.visible=False



def my_scrndump(wintitle,actdisplay,svfile,frmno):
         try:
     # built-in driver (1.1.3 and later)
             grabber = Image.core.grabscreen
         except AttributeError:
             return None

         winhndl=win32gui.FindWindow("wglWindowC",wintitle)
         scrntuple=win32gui.GetWindowRect(winhndl)
         actdisplay.select()
         imsize,imdata=grabber()
         imtmp=Image.fromstring("RGB",imsize,imdata,"raw","BGR",(imsize[0]*3+3) 
& -4,-1)

         imtmp=imtmp.crop(scrntuple)
         fntmp=svfile
##        print "base name for file ",fntmp
         fndir=dirname(fntmp)
         fnbase=basename(fntmp)[:-4]
         fntype=basename(fntmp)[-4:]
         fncount=str('%06i' % frmno)
         fn=fndir + '/' + fnbase +fncount + fntype
##        print fn
         try:
             imtmp.save(fn)
         except:
             fn=fn[:-3]+"Jpeg"
             imtmp.save(fn)
         return None

if __name__=='__main__':
     animate_something()

===============================code ends =========================



Bruce Peterson
425 466 7344 

[Visualpython-users] Building VPython 3.0 on Mandrake 9.2

[Fabien W. <fab...@te...>]

Hi!

Wow, not "that" easy.
Below are some comments of what gave me a hard time, and  might be 
avoided for next  wanabees

*   getting the boost libraries.  May be you could add a  link to the 
SourceForge download page...
     http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=7586

* preparing the boost libraries. May be you could add some clues (i know 
it's not "your" business, but since this step is required to get your 
module to work, a few guidance may help)
   * generating the bjam tool (boost_1_31_0/tools/build/jam_src/build.sh)
   * copying the jam binaries in the right location (cp 
boost_1_31_0/tools/build/jam_src/bin.linuxx86/* /usr/bin)

   * generating the boost libraries.
   * first specify python version (export PYTHON_VERSION=2.3)
   * then  generate  the library  (cd boost_1_31_0; bjam 
--with-python-root=/usr/ --with-pydebug)
   * finally install the library (bjam --with-python-root=/usr/ 
--with-pydebug install)

* correcting a few things first, before generating the cvisual module
    * the include directory name (cd /usr/local/include; ln -s 
boost-1_31/boost ./boost)
    * the library file (cd /usr/local/lib; ln -s libboost_python-gcc.a 
libboost_python.a) By the way, there are many libboost_python*.a 
candidates, which one should be used? -the one mentioned above works)
    
* eventually, launch the build of the cvisual module

Voili Voilà,
i am through it, and i am happy...
Fab.

[Visualpython-users] RE: Bitmap Rendering

[Joel K. <jj...@ya...>]

Bruce Peterson described a method of using a screen
capture utility from the Image Library to grab a
series of frames that can be later hooked up to make
an animation. I'm wondering if anyone has available
any actual code implementing what he laid out. With my
still-limited knowledge, I'm not sure how well I could
put it all together just from Bruce's prose; I need to
know more about exactly which commands to use and how
to use them. Plus, of course, we all want to avoid
wheel re-invention when we can. :-)

Joel



		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

[Visualpython-users] Bitmap rendering

[Bruce P. <bap...@te...>]

The Image library has a screen capture capability that can be used to 
capture an animation. It's a bit more kludgy than you may be envisioning -- 
but it works
    the process is basically -- In your animation loop set the rate to 1 
fps. before capturing the screen (so the display doesn't change during 
capture), create an Image.core.grabscreen object, use the win32gui library 
to find the handle, location and dimensions of the Vpython window, capture 
the screen and then using the Image library, trim the captured bitmap to 
only the Vpython window, save the bitmap to disk (as jpeg, bmp, etc), reset 
rate to 30 to get an updated screen, and repeat.

The downside to this method is you can basically only capture 
programmatically controlled displays -- the animation during capture 
essentially slows to 1 fps -- so user interactions are really not captureable.

Bruce


At 08:16 PM 10/18/2004, you wrote:
> >>snip<<
>In any case, is there a capacity to render into a bitmap file set planned
>for Vpython? It seems to me I put together some code a long time ago
>to generate avi files from an OpenGL anim under win32, but just rendering
>to files and using something like ImageMagick would work on most platforms.
>
>Don
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>Subject: Re: [Visualpython-users] Re: CamStudio: may prefer 2.0 over 2.1
>From: Jonathan Brandmeyer <jbr...@ea...>
>To: "Vis...@li..." 
><Vis...@li...>
>Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:05:14 -0400
>
>On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 10:13, Donald_Gaffney wrote:
>
> > In any case, is there a capacity to render into a bitmap file set planned
> > for Vpython? It seems to me I put together some code a long time ago
> > to generate avi files from an OpenGL anim under win32, but just rendering
> > to files and using something like ImageMagick would work on most 
> platforms.
> >
> > Don
>
>The idea has occurred to us.  The main issue is that VPython's rendering
>is purely asynchronous with respect to the rate of animation.  To make a
>movie correctly would require some kind of synchronous rendering mode
>(perhaps tied into rate() somehow), which is not planned at this time.
>
>-Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>_______________________________________________
>Visualpython-users mailing list
>Vis...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>
>End of Visualpython-users Digest

Bruce Peterson
425 466 7344 

Re: [Visualpython-users] Re: CamStudio: may prefer 2.0 over 2.1

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 10:13, Donald_Gaffney wrote:

> In any case, is there a capacity to render into a bitmap file set planned
> for Vpython? It seems to me I put together some code a long time ago
> to generate avi files from an OpenGL anim under win32, but just rendering
> to files and using something like ImageMagick would work on most platforms. 
> 
> Don

The idea has occurred to us.  The main issue is that VPython's rendering
is purely asynchronous with respect to the rate of animation.  To make a
movie correctly would require some kind of synchronous rendering mode
(perhaps tied into rate() somehow), which is not planned at this time.

-Jonathan

[Visualpython-users] Re: CamStudio: may prefer 2.0 over 2.1

[Donald_Gaffney <ga...@ph...>]

> CamStudio is a good freeware program for capturing to avi format on 
> Windows (download at 
> http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Reviews/r1075.html); the help menu 
> doesn't seem to work, but you can get help from the start menu entry for 
> CamStudio. For capturing VPython animations you probably want to choose 
> the menu option "Region" in which case when you start recording it waits 
> for you to draw a capture rectangle.
> 
> Bruce Sherwood

The link mentioned above didn't work for me, so I did a bit of searching
regarding this app and downloaded the 2.0 installer from

http://www.swftools.com/tool-details.php?tool=8162413051

This installer is smaller than the 2.1 installer and lacks the adware
burden of 2.1. A good discussion regarding CamStudio may be found
at http://groups.google.com/, by searching for "CamStudio 2.0 - Last 
Freeware/Open Source version" and locating the thread in alt.comp.freeware
from this past April (2004).

The 2.0 version was GPL'd by RenderSoft, but it is unclear whether the
GPL was the license they had really intended to use. The license files 
bundled with the source zip file read more like a BSD+advert clause 
license, but a GPL screen shot from the former RenderSoft website shows 
that  they distributed the code as GPL.

In any case, the installer from above is freely redistributable.

In any case, is there a capacity to render into a bitmap file set planned
for Vpython? It seems to me I put together some code a long time ago
to generate avi files from an OpenGL anim under win32, but just rendering
to files and using something like ImageMagick would work on most platforms. 

Don