visualpython-users

[Visualpython-users] new beta release

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

At http://sourceforge.net/projects/visualpython there is 4.beta8 for 
Windows and Linux/Unix.

The big change is that this incorporates the work of Arthur Siegel to 
use the new numpy and eliminate dependence on Numeric, which is no 
longer supported.

There are three major known bugs still being worked on, somewhat 
different from the previous release:

    1) On Windows, programs that process mouse events may leave a copy
    of python running after clicking the close box. The example program
    toroid_drag.py has this problem.

    2) On some Windows machines, the animation in the program gas.py is
    very jerky; this is the only example program affected in this way.

    3) Graphing (from visual.graph import *) works well for many simple
    uses, but if the axes must be continually adjusted it can be very
    slow. If you know the extent of your variables and can specify xmax
    and ymax for the graph, the graphing is very fast.

This version is much more usable on Windows, because mouse events now 
seem to work okay while running, thanks to a workaround by Arthur 
Siegel. However, there remains a mouse-related problem with quitting. 
Arthur has narrowed the problem down to being associated with situations 
like the following:

if scene.mouse.events:
   m = scene.mouse.getevent()

One way to track the quit problem on Windows is to press Ctrl-Alt-Del, 
choose Processes tab, click on Image Name, and scroll to python. If 
you're running IDLE, normally there is one copy of python for IDLE 
itself, another copy for the shell, and a third copy for the running 
program (though oddly enough if you run a program and wait about ten 
seconds you may see the third listing disappear).

Issues on Linux: When I compiled and installed Python 2.5, numpy 1.0, 
and Visual into /usr/local on Ubuntu, I found that at the start of every 
run I get a warning message (which doesn't prevent running), "Python C 
API version mismatch for module cvisual: This Python has API version 
1013, module cvisual has version 1012." Through Google I've seen many 
references to this exact same warning, with the same version numbers, 
but no enlightenment.

When I tried to build against Ubuntu packages for Python 2.5 and numpy 
1.0 (in /usr), the configuration failed in a way I don't understand, 
with the check for the existence of numpy looking in 
/usr/local/lib/Python2.5/site-packages/numpy instead of in 
/usr/lib/Python2.5/site-packages/numpy, despite other indications in 
config.log that it knew that I'd specified --prefix=/usr.

Any help in testing and debugging would be most welcome!

Bruce Sherwood

Re: [Visualpython-users] Install on Mandriva, crashes KDE...

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

Does running glxgears cause the same problem?  What does glxinfo report?

On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 22:51 +0000, chris wrote:
> I've just loaded Vpython on Mandriva 2007 and it imports ok (from visual 
> import *) but upon typing 
> a = sphere(), the desktop crashes and I need to log in again...
> 
> The install all went ok, but I'm a bit stumped as what to try first.
> 
> I had to move the visual directory from /usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages 
> to /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages but other than that everything proceeded 
> as normal.
> 
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[Visualpython-users] Install on Mandriva, crashes KDE...

[chris <chr...@sp...>]

I've just loaded Vpython on Mandriva 2007 and it imports ok (from visual 
import *) but upon typing 
a = sphere(), the desktop crashes and I need to log in again...

The install all went ok, but I'm a bit stumped as what to try first.

I had to move the visual directory from /usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages 
to /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages but other than that everything proceeded 
as normal.

Re: [Visualpython-users] VPython on OS X, steps forward and otherwise

[Dethe E. <de...@li...>]

On 30-Nov-06, at 12:17 PM, Martin Costabel wrote:

> Yes, that's what you get when you link cvisualmodule.so with Fink's  
> libboost_python.dylib that was compiled with the system python2.3.  
> To work around this, you can link with the static libboost_python.a  
> by changing "-lboost_python" to "/sw/lib/libboost_python.a" at the  
> right place in src/Makefile.in.

That did it!  Thanks for being patient with me and repeating your  
good advice until I see it.  I now have a build of visual that  
supports transparency!

> A better fix would be to build libboost_python.dylib with  
> python2.5, but as I mentioned in one of my earlier messages, there  
> is currently no Fink package that does this. I'll make one soon if  
> I have some time left.

I have build libboost_python before on OS X.  Building all of Boost  
is a major undertaking, but the python part is relatively achievable.

Here's a sample session:

 >>> from visual import *
/sw/lib/python2.5/site-packages/visual/__init__.py:27:  
RuntimeWarning: Python C API version mismatch for module cvisual:  
This Python has API version 1013, module cvisual has version 1012.
   import cvisual
 >>> ball = sphere(color=(0,1,0), opacity=0.3)

(<unknown>:20183): libglade-WARNING **: unknown property  
`urgency_hint' for class `gtkmm__GtkWindow'

(<unknown>:20183): Gtk-WARNING **: gtkwidget.c:3143: widget  
`gtkmm__GtkToolButton' has no activatable signal "clicked" without  
arguments
 >>> cube = box(color=(0,0,1))

As you can see, it's not perfect, but it does put up a transparent  
green sphere with a blue cube inside it.  If X11 is not running or  
the DISPLAY environment variable is not set it crashes Python, and I  
haven't found a clean way to exit it yet, if running from the console  
(closing the window exits OK when I run "python [script]".  The first  
time I ran it, the sphere took a couple of minutes to show up, but it  
has been relatively immediate on subsequent runs.  Running this  
simple scene takes 25-30% of one of my CPUs (2GHz) when run from the  
console, but a much more complex example only uses 11% of a CPU when  
run as a script.

Still, it works, and I've tested most of the example programs.

Martin, thanks for all your help!  There is no motivator like success.

Now I can begin...

--Dethe

"Computers are beyond dumb, they're mind-numbingly stupid. They're  
hostile, rigid, capricious, and unforgiving. They're impossibly  
demanding and they never learn anything." -- John R. Levine

Re: [Visualpython-users] VPython on OS X, steps forward and otherwise

[Dethe E. <de...@li...>]

On 30-Nov-06, at 5:52 AM, Arthur wrote:

> I am concerned that you are working not at the bleeding edge, but =20
> beyond
> it a bit. And are trying to solve problems that shouldn't be yours =20
> - in
> that beta8 is a work in progress that has been focusing not only on
> numpy compatibility but on some Windows specific build issues, and =20
> that
> there has been some futzing with Makefile.in (that I think Bruce =20
> checked
> in) that address those, but without, at the moment, thinking =20
> through the
> crossplatform implications, mainly because we haven't finalized =20
> what the
> keepers are, even for Windows.

I was trying to build from the beta5 tarball, but the files Martin =20
was using weren't in it (there are several build tools involved--not =20
sure how/where pycompile, scons, or mkdist_osx.sh enter into the =20
process (are they used, or just cruft left from earlier builds?).  On =20=

the other hand, now that I have gotten it to build and run (see my =20
reply to Martin following this), I can try to repeat the process from =20=

the beta5 tarball, or selectively roll back what I have checked out =20
from CVS.

> That being said, I think Bruce successfully did a Linux build from the
> cvs as late as yesterday with no apparent problems.

Excellent.  Bruce, if you're reading this, could you give me some =20
insight into which of the build tools you're using?

> Coming in late, but looking at your build log where everything looks
> rather sensible.
>
> Is it clear where -lboost_python -lboost_thread are being found.

Martin had given me the key to this in an earlier message, but I had =20
missed it.  Got it now.

> Presumably you are using a binary distro of these libs that are =20
> placing
> them somewhere standard.  I mention it because when I have built those
> libraries, on Linux, or Windows I have had to handle them with kid
> gloves, re: naming and install issues.

I'm using Fink to build all of the libs.

> Beyond those clues, which might not be clues, don't have a clue =20
> what you
> might be running into.

It's all helpful.  Thanks, Art!

> Art

--Dethe

values of =CE=B2 will give rise to dom --Unix prehistory

Re: [Visualpython-users] VPython on OS X, steps forward and otherwise

[Martin C. <cos...@wa...>]

Dethe Elza wrote:
[]
>  >>> from visual import *
> Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)
> Abort trap

Yes, that's what you get when you link cvisualmodule.so with Fink's 
libboost_python.dylib that was compiled with the system python2.3. To 
work around this, you can link with the static libboost_python.a by 
changing "-lboost_python" to "/sw/lib/libboost_python.a" at the right 
place in src/Makefile.in.

A better fix would be to build libboost_python.dylib with python2.5, but 
as I mentioned in one of my earlier messages, there is currently no Fink 
package that does this. I'll make one soon if I have some time left.

-- 
Martin

Re: [Visualpython-users] VPython on OS X, steps forward and otherwise

[Arthur <ajs...@op...>]

Dethe Elza wrote:

> Unfortunately,  when I go into python after building and installing,  
> I get this:
>
> >>> from visual import *
> Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)
> Abort trap

I haven't been following this discussion in detail.

But...

I am concerned that you are working not at the bleeding edge, but beyond 
it a bit. And are trying to solve problems that shouldn't be yours - in 
that beta8 is a work in progress that has been focusing not only on 
numpy compatibility but on some Windows specific build issues, and that 
there has been some futzing with Makefile.in (that I think Bruce checked 
in) that address those, but without, at the moment, thinking through the 
crossplatform implications, mainly because we haven't finalized what the 
keepers are, even for Windows.

That being said, I think Bruce successfully did a Linux build from the 
cvs as late as yesterday with no apparent problems.

Coming in late, but looking at your build log where everything looks 
rather sensible.

Is it clear where -lboost_python -lboost_thread are being found. 

Presumably you are using a binary distro of these libs that are placing 
them somewhere standard.  I mention it because when I have built those 
libraries, on Linux, or Windows I have had to handle them with kid 
gloves, re: naming and install issues.

Beyond those clues, which might not be clues, don't have a clue what you 
might be running into.

Art







> Not sure why this is, but my config.log doesn't look right.  I've  
> attached both that file and my src/build.log.  That's all I can do  
> for today, maybe I'll make more progress tomorrow.  Any suggestions  
> welcome.
>
> --Dethe
>
>
>
> "Ambiguity, calculated or generative, as a means of discontinuous  
> organization, at first seems familiar to us"
> -- Pain Not Bread, An introduction to Du Fu
>
>
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[Visualpython-users] VPython on OS X, steps forward and otherwise

[Dethe E. <de...@li...>]

The following incantation has allowed me to compile visual (fresh  
checkout from vpython-core2) once I got all the dependencies  
installed and made sure my paths had /sw/bin first:

#!/bin/sh -ex
   rm config.guess
   rm config.sub
   rm ltmain.sh
   sh ./autogen.sh
   export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/sw/lib/fontconfig2/lib/pkgconfig:/sw/lib/ 
xft2/lib/pkgconfig:/sw/lib/freetype219/lib/pkgconfig
   export PYTHON=/sw/bin/python2.5
   export CXXFLAGS="-O2 -finline-functions"
   export CFLAGS='-O3'
   ./configure --prefix=/sw --disable-dependency-tracking
    make

Unfortunately,  when I go into python after building and installing,  
I get this:

 >>> from visual import *
Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?)
Abort trap

Not sure why this is, but my config.log doesn't look right.  I've  
attached both that file and my src/build.log.  That's all I can do  
for today, maybe I'll make more progress tomorrow.  Any suggestions  
welcome.

--Dethe

[Visualpython-users] OS X build getting closer

[Dethe E. <de...@li...>]

OK the problem turned out to be that I am a doofus.  Although I had  
sourced /sw/bin/init.sh, I hadn't actually checked my path afterwards  
(maybe I ran it instead of sourcing it?).  Anyway, I was picking up  
Apple's autoconf chain, not fink's.  Changed that, found a couple of  
more dependencies needed, installed those, made it much further.

I'm running into a problem when VPython tries to bind to numpy.  I  
have numpy installed in my standard Python, and (via scipy) in fink.   
But VPython's make can't find it, and setting GCC_INCLUDE_DIR doesn't  
appear to help.  Is this something I need to add to PKG_CONFIG_PATH?

I'm feeling like this is so close now.  And I found where the .info  
file was hiding, so I'm looking at that to see how the fink VPython  
was built.

Progress!

Thanks,

--Dethe


On 29-Nov-06, at 9:43 AM, Martin Costabel wrote:

> Dethe Elza wrote:
> []
>> I'm using the source tree from CVS and I've compared the  
>> autogen.sh to the one you are using and they are identical, so I'm  
>> not sure why I'm getting errors with it.  When I try to run the  
>> resulting configure script I get the following errors:
>> ./configure: line 19239: syntax error near unexpected token `GTK,'
>> ./configure: line 19239: `      PKG_CHECK_MODULES( GTK, sigc+ 
>> +-2.0, ,'
>
> I don't know anything about the autotools either, but this doesn't  
> look good, indeed. Here is what I have installed in this area from  
> Fink:
>
>  i   autoconf                   2.60-4
>  i   automake1.9                1.9.6-3
>  i   libtool14                  1.5.22-1000
>  i   libtool14-shlibs           1.5.22-1000
>  i   m4                         1.4.5-3
>
> What do you have there? (This is on 10.4.8/intel).
>
> -- 
> Martin
>


We must be careful not to build a world we don't want to live in. -- 
Stu Card

Re: [Visualpython-users] One more stab at OS X compatibility

[Dethe E. <de...@li...>]

On 29-Nov-06, at 9:43 AM, Martin Costabel wrote:

> Dethe Elza wrote:
> []
>> I'm using the source tree from CVS and I've compared the  
>> autogen.sh to the one you are using and they are identical, so I'm  
>> not sure why I'm getting errors with it.  When I try to run the  
>> resulting configure script I get the following errors:
>> ./configure: line 19239: syntax error near unexpected token `GTK,'
>> ./configure: line 19239: `      PKG_CHECK_MODULES( GTK, sigc+ 
>> +-2.0, ,'
>
> I don't know anything about the autotools either, but this doesn't  
> look good, indeed. Here is what I have installed in this area from  
> Fink:
>
>  i   autoconf                   2.60-4
>  i   automake1.9                1.9.6-3
>  i   libtool14                  1.5.22-1000
>  i   libtool14-shlibs           1.5.22-1000
>  i   m4                         1.4.5-3
>
> What do you have there? (This is on 10.4.8/intel).

That's what I have too.  The only difference (from the above, there  
may be other differences) is my m4 is listed as "(i)" rather than  
"i".  I'm also on 10.4.8/intel.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Well, Apple just applied a bunch of security updates via Software  
Update.  I'll reboot and try again.

Thanks!

--Dethe

>
> -- 
> Martin
>


Every day computers are making people easier to use. --David Tompkin

Re: [Visualpython-users] One more stab at OS X compatibility

[Martin C. <cos...@wa...>]

Dethe Elza wrote:
[]
> I'm using the source tree from CVS and I've compared the autogen.sh to 
> the one you are using and they are identical, so I'm not sure why I'm 
> getting errors with it.  When I try to run the resulting configure 
> script I get the following errors:
> 
> ./configure: line 19239: syntax error near unexpected token `GTK,'
> ./configure: line 19239: `      PKG_CHECK_MODULES( GTK, sigc++-2.0, ,'

I don't know anything about the autotools either, but this doesn't look 
good, indeed. Here is what I have installed in this area from Fink:

  i   autoconf                   2.60-4
  i   automake1.9                1.9.6-3
  i   libtool14                  1.5.22-1000
  i   libtool14-shlibs           1.5.22-1000
  i   m4                         1.4.5-3

What do you have there? (This is on 10.4.8/intel).

-- 
Martin

Re: [Visualpython-users] One more stab at OS X compatibility

[Dethe E. <de...@li...>]

On 28-Nov-06, at 12:58 AM, Martin Costabel wrote:

> I am building this from inside a source tree checked out directly  
> via cvs. Maybe the tarball that you are using doesn't contain  
> autogen.sh, but it will contain a ready configure script. I was  
> simply following instructions from HACKING.txt.

I'm using the source tree from CVS and I've compared the autogen.sh  
to the one you are using and they are identical, so I'm not sure why  
I'm getting errors with it.  When I try to run the resulting  
configure script I get the following errors:

./configure: line 19239: syntax error near unexpected token `GTK,'
./configure: line 19239: `      PKG_CHECK_MODULES( GTK, sigc++-2.0, ,'

So it looks like the autogen.sh is building a bum configure, but I'm  
still no closer to understanding why.  I've done a fink upgrade-all  
and run on a clean checkout from CVS.  I guess the next step is to  
delve into autoconf lore, but that is black magick I never really  
wanted to have to get into, and this is the only program where I feel  
I have no choice.

Any advice or pointers would be welcome.

--Dethe

>
> -- 
> Martin
>


"...coding isn't the poor handmaiden of design or analysis. Coding is
where your fuzzy, comfortable ideas awaken in the harsh dawn of reality.
It is where you learn what your computer can do. If you stop coding,
you stop learning."     Kent Beck, Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns

Re: [Visualpython-users] Mac X11 update

[Joe H. <bet...@ya...>]

--- Bruce Sherwood <Bru...@nc...> wrote:

> Interesting. At a time when others were reporting
> this upgrade, I was 
> still not seeing it in the list of updates. Maybe I
> missed the "bad" 
> one? Martin Costabel also mentioned that the
> appearance of the update 
> seemed to be a bit random.
> 

Apple's X11 1.1.2 update introduced a problem that
broke OpenOffice.org. It had to do with certain font
files. The 1.1.3 update corrected the problem.

Joe Heafner


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index

[Visualpython-users] X11 Upgrade

[Mark H. <mha...@st...>]

I figured out where I saw that the X11 update caused problems... but it
wasn't on this listserv (it was the Matter and Interactions Yahoo
discussion group). And the update that was mentioned was version 1.1.2.=20
The update that popped up on my computer a couple of weeks ago was versio=
n
1.1.3, and I think this must be the update that Bruce is referring to.

To all those working on the Mac version of Vpython, thank you. I can't
wait for the non-X11 version! And I learn so much from reading all that
you guys have to say.

Mark

Re: [Visualpython-users] Mac X11 update

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

Interesting. At a time when others were reporting this upgrade, I was 
still not seeing it in the list of updates. Maybe I missed the "bad" 
one? Martin Costabel also mentioned that the appearance of the update 
seemed to be a bit random.

Bruce

Frank Wolfs, Physics and Astronomy, U of R wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> I also have not encountered any problems on my PPC PowerBook after the 
> upgrade of X11.  Please note however, that apple released two X11 
> upgrades shortly after each other (at least for the PPC).  Could it be 
> that the first X11 upgrade broke vptyhon, but that functionality was 
> restored after the second upgrade?  I only ran vptyhon after the 
> second X11 upgrade.
>
> Frank
>
>  On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Bruce Sherwood wrote:
>
>> Since problems have been reported with the following, I should report
>> that I just was offered and accepted the X11 update on an Intel MacBook,
>> and VPython (visual-py24) still runs after the update.
>>
>> Bruce Sherwood
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
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>> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
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>>
>

Re: [Visualpython-users] Mac X11 update

[Frank W. P. a. A. U of R <wo...@pa...>]

Bruce,

I also have not encountered any problems on my PPC PowerBook after the 
upgrade of X11.  Please note however, that apple released two X11 upgrades 
shortly after each other (at least for the PPC).  Could it be that the 
first X11 upgrade broke vptyhon, but that functionality was restored after 
the second upgrade?  I only ran vptyhon after the second X11 upgrade.

Frank

  On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

> Since problems have been reported with the following, I should report
> that I just was offered and accepted the X11 update on an Intel MacBook,
> and VPython (visual-py24) still runs after the update.
>
> Bruce Sherwood
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your
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-- 

_____________________________________________________________________

  Frank L. H. Wolfs                  e-mail: wo...@pa...
  Department of Physics and Astronomy
  University of Rochester
  B&L 203A, RC Box 270171                      fax: (585) 273 - 3237
  500 Wilson Blvd.                           phone: (585) 275 - 4937
  Rochester, NY 14627              http://teacher.pas.rochester.edu/

[Visualpython-users] Mac X11 update

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

Since problems have been reported with the following, I should report 
that I just was offered and accepted the X11 update on an Intel MacBook, 
and VPython (visual-py24) still runs after the update.

Bruce Sherwood

Re: [Visualpython-users] One more stab at OS X compatibility

[Dethe E. <de...@li...>]

Hi Martin,

On 28-Nov-06, at 12:58 AM, Martin Costabel wrote:

> Dethe Elza wrote:
>
>> checking for GTK... configure: error: gtkglextmm 1.2, pangoft2,   
>> glibmm-2.4, and pangomm-1.4 libglademm-2.4 are required on Unix- 
>> like  systems
>
> You can look in src/build.log for more information on this error.  
> It will show you which library or package is still missing.

Excellent, thanks for the tip.

>> Now one thing I notice immediately that differs on my system from  
>> the  instructions above is that I do not have an autogen.sh script  
>> in the  root.
>
> I am building this from inside a source tree checked out directly  
> via cvs. Maybe the tarball that you are using doesn't contain  
> autogen.sh, but it will contain a ready configure script. I was  
> simply following instructions from HACKING.txt.

OK, I've checked out a clean copy from CVS.  Now when I run "sh ./ 
autogen.sh" I get the following:

configure.ac: installing `./install-sh'
configure.ac: installing `./mkinstalldirs'
configure.ac: installing `./missing'
aclocal.m4:319: installing `./py-compile'
Makefile.am:6: SUBDIRS was already defined in condition TRUE, which  
implies condition BUILD_EXAMPLES_TRUE

   SUBDIRS (User, where = Makefile.am:6) +=
   {
     TRUE => site-packages/visual src
   }
Makefile.am:6: SUBDIRS was already defined in condition TRUE, which  
implies condition BUILD_DOCS_TRUE

   SUBDIRS (User, where = Makefile.am:6) +=
   {
     TRUE => site-packages/visual src
     BUILD_EXAMPLES_TRUE => examples
   }
Makefile.am:6: directory should not contain `/'
configure.ac:33: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_MSG_ERROR
       If this token and others are legitimate, please use  
m4_pattern_allow.
       See the Autoconf documentation.
Completed successfully

====================== snip ========================

Lulled by the false sense of security from that last line ("Completed  
successfully") I tried running the resulting .configure, but received  
syntax errors, so I'm taking a step back to try to get autogen.sh to  
run without errors.  Do any of the above ring any bells for you?  Do  
these indicate that I'm missing a library, need a newer version of  
the autoconf chain (I'm pretty sure I'm up to date with that), or  
something else?

Thanks again for your help!

--Dethe

>
> -- 
> Martin
>


Email is where knowledge goes to die. --Bill French

Re: [Visualpython-users] One more stab at OS X compatibility

[Martin C. <cos...@wa...>]

Dethe Elza wrote:

> checking for GTK... configure: error: gtkglextmm 1.2, pangoft2,  
> glibmm-2.4, and pangomm-1.4 libglademm-2.4 are required on Unix-like  
> systems

You can look in src/build.log for more information on this error. It 
will show you which library or package is still missing.

> Now one thing I notice immediately that differs on my system from the  
> instructions above is that I do not have an autogen.sh script in the  
> root.

I am building this from inside a source tree checked out directly via 
cvs. Maybe the tarball that you are using doesn't contain autogen.sh, 
but it will contain a ready configure script. I was simply following 
instructions from HACKING.txt.

-- 
Martin

Re: [Visualpython-users] One more stab at OS X compatibility

[Martin C. <cos...@wa...>]

Dethe Elza wrote:
[]
> When I import visual, I do get the following error, although it  
> appears to work OK:
> 
>  >>> from visual import *
> /sw/lib/python2.5/site-packages/visual/array_backend.py:1:  
> RuntimeWarning: Python C API version mismatch for module cvisual:  
> This Python has API version 1013, module cvisual has version 1012.
>    import cvisual
> 
> I assume that is the warning you were talking about?

Yes. I think (not 100% sure though) that it detects some trace of the 
python2.3 that libboost_python was built with. The cvisual module now 
links to the static version of libboost_python. When it linked to the 
dynamic version, at the place of the above warning there was a crash.

> Under the assumption that Python2.5 extensions were binary  
> compatible, as long as it was the same version, I naively tried  
> moving cvisualpython.so and visual/ to the site-packages directory of  
> my framework build of Python2.5, but no such luck:
> 
>  >>> from visual import *
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>    File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
> python2.5/site-packages/visual/__init__.py", line 15, in <module>
>      import array_backend
>    File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
> python2.5/site-packages/visual/array_backend.py", line 1, in <module>
>      import cvisual
> ImportError: dlopen(/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/ 
> lib/python2.5/site-packages/cvisualmodule.so, 2): Symbol not found:  
> _PyType_GenericAlloc
>    Referenced from: /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/ 
> lib/python2.5/site-packages/cvisualmodule.so
>    Expected in: /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/ 
> Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python

The cvisualmodule.so wants to load this symbol PyType_GenericAlloc from 
the python executable. It is defined in Fink's python2.5, but apparently 
not in the framework version of the python executable. There it is 
defined in the Python library. The module is compiled with the 
-bundle-loader linker flag which can have this side effect.

[]
>> So for now I am just waiting for reports on working/non-working
>> visual-py25 (and visual-py24 for that matter) installations.
> 
> Looks good here.

Thanks.
[]
> I think you've nailed the crux of the matter.  What is wanted is (in  
> order of importance):
> 
> 1. Run under Aqua with no dependencies on X11 (and thus no need for  
> gtk libraries)
> 2. Integrate with other tools that run under a framework build of  
> Python (so, for instance, VPython programs could be packaged with  
> py2app, could run in the same process as PyObjC programs, could  
> interact with PyGame, etc.)
> 
> I think there is some resistance to Fink because of perhaps some  
> instability in earlier versions, but more importantly, because Fink  
> tends to bring along more Linuxisms and retain a dependency on X11  
> rather than integrating with Aqua.  At least, that has been my  
> impression, whether fairly or not.

It may appear so, because Fink traditionally focused on porting software 
from linux/Unix (hence X11) to Mac OSX. But there is no technical or 
philosophical reason why Fink cannot package Aqua applications and 
application bundles. There are a couple (though still very few) of them 
in Fink now.

-- 
Martin

[Visualpython-users] Help much appreciated

[Bruce S. <Bru...@nc...>]

I would like to express public appreciation for the significant efforts 
being expended by several people to improve VPython.

Arthur Siegel has contributed code that allows Visual to run with the 
new numpy, eliminating the dependence on the now defunct numeric and/or 
numarray. The changes are in CVS, but no packages have been built 
because there remain some not-understood problems with mouse 
interactions and with quitting, at least on Windows. Arthur is also 
exploring various core issues in an intelligent and rapid manner.

Martin Costabel has for some time been building Fink packages for the 
Mac, which is currently the only feasible way to get VPython running on 
a Mac. He has also been offering helpful advice to Arthur and to Dethe Elza.

Dethe Elza is trying to come up to speed on the Mac version so as to 
make a stab at eliminating the unfortunate reliance on X11, which keeps 
causing problems.

Jonathan Brandmeyer is now otherwise engaged but has been generous in 
answering the questions that Arthur and I keep coming up with.

Thanks, everyone!

Bruce Sherwood

Re: [Visualpython-users] One more stab at OS X compatibility

[Dethe E. <de...@li...>]

On 25-Nov-06, at 12:51 PM, Martin Costabel wrote:

> Arthur wrote:
> []
>> gtkglextmm is more of an issue
>
> There is now a Fink package of gtkglextmm, so this is now no more an
> issue than the other packages. In fact, I got vpython-core2 CVS to  
> build
> on OSX 10.4.8/intel without problem, using existing Fink packages for
> all prerequisites:
>
>    fink install freetype219 fontconfig2-dev libglademm2.4 gtkglextmm
> scipy-py25 boost1.33
>      (this list is probably not complete)
>    sh ./autogen.sh
>    export
> PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/sw/lib/fontconfig2/lib/pkgconfig:/sw/lib/xft2/lib/ 
> pkgconfig:/sw/lib/freetype219/lib/pkgconfig
>    ./configure --prefix=/sw
>    make

OK, this looks like an excellent tutorial which explains (at least in  
part) why I have been having so much trouble getting VPython to  
configure (much less build).  Unfortunately, I still am getting the  
same errors I always have when I try to build visual-4.beta5 (when  
running .configure)

checking for GTK... configure: error: gtkglextmm 1.2, pangoft2,  
glibmm-2.4, and pangomm-1.4 libglademm-2.4 are required on Unix-like  
systems

Now one thing I notice immediately that differs on my system from the  
instructions above is that I do not have an autogen.sh script in the  
root.

If you can help me get through the config/build steps, I'm willing to  
look into Aquafication.  My stumbling block with VPython has been my  
poor autoconf-fu.

Thanks!

--Dethe


>
> -- 
> Martin
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
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"The real trouble with this world of ours is not that it is an  
unreasonable world, nor even that it is a reasonable one. The  
commonest kind of trouble is that it is nearly reasonable, but not  
quite. Life is not an illogicality; yet it is a trap for logicians.  
It looks just a little more mathematical and regular than it is; its  
exactitude is obvious, but its inexactitude is hidden; its wildness  
lies in wait." --G.K. Chesterton

Re: [Visualpython-users] One more stab at OS X compatibility

[Dethe E. <de...@li...>]

Hi Martin,

> Adding it to Fink's 10.4/unstable tree is a matter of seconds, so I  
> just
> did it.

Thanks for putting this together.  I switched to unstable and was  
able to install visual-py25 without problems.  I haven't exercised it  
extensively yet, but I can open a window and create basic shapes  
(sphere, cube). [Update: I took some time to run it over some more  
(much more) complex examples and haven't had any trouble]

> I am, however, not completely comfortable with these pythonXX  
> variants,
> because I don't know if they wouldn't ultimately also require
> corresponding variants for the boost-python libraries. Currently I am
> building the libboost_python libraries with the version of python that
> comes with OSX, which is python-2.3. This is then linked into the
> cvisualmodule.so which is ultimately run under python-2.5. On starting
> vpython2.5, the python shell complains mildly about differing APIs,  
> but
> in my (very few) tests it did run correctly. I cannot exclude that  
> there
> will be other situations where this leads to serious problems, though.

When I import visual, I do get the following error, although it  
appears to work OK:

 >>> from visual import *
/sw/lib/python2.5/site-packages/visual/array_backend.py:1:  
RuntimeWarning: Python C API version mismatch for module cvisual:  
This Python has API version 1013, module cvisual has version 1012.
   import cvisual

I assume that is the warning you were talking about?

Under the assumption that Python2.5 extensions were binary  
compatible, as long as it was the same version, I naively tried  
moving cvisualpython.so and visual/ to the site-packages directory of  
my framework build of Python2.5, but no such luck:

 >>> from visual import *
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
python2.5/site-packages/visual/__init__.py", line 15, in <module>
     import array_backend
   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/ 
python2.5/site-packages/visual/array_backend.py", line 1, in <module>
     import cvisual
ImportError: dlopen(/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/ 
lib/python2.5/site-packages/cvisualmodule.so, 2): Symbol not found:  
_PyType_GenericAlloc
   Referenced from: /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/ 
lib/python2.5/site-packages/cvisualmodule.so
   Expected in: /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/ 
Resources/Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python

> Rearranging the packaging of the boost libraries so that the
> libboost_python libs would inhabit different packages corresponding to
> different python versions would require some work for which I haven't
> had the time yet.

Well, I certainly appreciate what you've done so far.

> So for now I am just waiting for reports on working/non-working
> visual-py25 (and visual-py24 for that matter) installations.

Looks good here.

>> Ultimately, some are hoping for a vpython that does not require fink.
>> Do you have an opinion as to what might be the best path towards  
>> that??
>
> I am not the right person to ask about this. In my opinion, every Mac
> user should install Fink ;-)
>
> What might be more interesting is to get rid of the X11 dependency and
> build a vpython that runs with Apple's python and aqua graphics.  
> Fink or
> not Fink is not the question.

I think you've nailed the crux of the matter.  What is wanted is (in  
order of importance):

1. Run under Aqua with no dependencies on X11 (and thus no need for  
gtk libraries)
2. Integrate with other tools that run under a framework build of  
Python (so, for instance, VPython programs could be packaged with  
py2app, could run in the same process as PyObjC programs, could  
interact with PyGame, etc.)

I think there is some resistance to Fink because of perhaps some  
instability in earlier versions, but more importantly, because Fink  
tends to bring along more Linuxisms and retain a dependency on X11  
rather than integrating with Aqua.  At least, that has been my  
impression, whether fairly or not.

>> Untangling vpython from its boost dependencies does not seem  
>> realistic.
>> I see that you maintain the boost fink packages.  But is boost itself
>> dependent upon fink if it is to be used as a dependency on OS X??

I could live with (but never love) Boost, if VPython could play  
nicely as an OS X citizen (no X11, framework build of Python).

Thanks also for the insights into how Fink packages are built.  That  
process has been opaque to me up until now, but I feel like you've  
given me enough to get started.

--Dethe

"Why is Virtual Reality always posited in terms of space, when time  
is the only real commodity left?" --Rich Gold

Re: [Visualpython-users] One more stab at OS X compatibility

[Martin C. <cos...@wa...>]

Arthur wrote:
[]
> As my questions below will indicate, I am not a Mac person myself, but 
> am interested in the subject of vpython and Mac.
> 
> Do you see a visual-py25 on the horizon?

Adding it to Fink's 10.4/unstable tree is a matter of seconds, so I just 
did it.

I am, however, not completely comfortable with these pythonXX variants, 
because I don't know if they wouldn't ultimately also require 
corresponding variants for the boost-python libraries. Currently I am 
building the libboost_python libraries with the version of python that 
comes with OSX, which is python-2.3. This is then linked into the 
cvisualmodule.so which is ultimately run under python-2.5. On starting 
vpython2.5, the python shell complains mildly about differing APIs, but 
in my (very few) tests it did run correctly. I cannot exclude that there 
will be other situations where this leads to serious problems, though.

Rearranging the packaging of the boost libraries so that the 
libboost_python libs would inhabit different packages corresponding to 
different python versions would require some work for which I haven't 
had the time yet.

So for now I am just waiting for reports on working/non-working 
visual-py25 (and visual-py24 for that matter) installations.

> And:
> 
> Is there anywhere where one can find  succinct and complete instructions 
> for a fink build??

Well, for the released version of vpython, there is not much to say (in 
principle, at least):

1. Install Fink and (optionally) enable the "unstable" tree
2. Run "fink selfupdate"
3. Run "fink install visual-py24"

Points 2 and 3 can be replaced by the corresponding mouse clicks in the 
FinkCommander GUI.

Of course, there are details that need to be learned by reading 
documentation, and things can go wrong, too, but basically it is that 
simple.

> Ultimately, some are hoping for a vpython that does not require fink.  
> Do you have an opinion as to what might be the best path towards that??

I am not the right person to ask about this. In my opinion, every Mac 
user should install Fink ;-)

What might be more interesting is to get rid of the X11 dependency and 
build a vpython that runs with Apple's python and aqua graphics. Fink or 
not Fink is not the question.

> Untangling vpython from its boost dependencies does not seem realistic. 
> I see that you maintain the boost fink packages.  But is boost itself 
> dependent upon fink if it is to be used as a dependency on OS X??

Well, nothing "depends" on Fink. Fink is only a package manager and a 
convenient way to organize the downloading, building and installation of 
open source software. You can imitate by hand everything Fink does; it 
suffices to read the *.info and, if it exists, the *.patch file for each 
package in the list of dependencies. The *.info files are 
human-readable, not much more than succinct descriptions of the build 
procedures. If you do things by hand, you will even gain in simplicity: 
You can install into the standard directory /usr/local instead of Fink's 
/sw, and you can directly install into the runtime directory; you don't 
need to install into an intermediate directory like it needs to be done 
by a package manager. You will lose in cleanliness, on the other hand, 
because you have to live alongside all the other garbage that will be 
installed in /usr/local.

-- 
Martin

Re: [Visualpython-users] One more stab at OS X compatibility

[Arthur <ajs...@op...>]

Martin Costabel wrote:

> Arthur wrote:
> []
>
>> gtkglextmm is more of an issue
>
>
> There is now a Fink package of gtkglextmm, so this is now no more an 
> issue than the other packages. In fact, I got vpython-core2 CVS to 
> build on OSX 10.4.8/intel without problem, using existing Fink 
> packages for all prerequisites:

Hi Martin -

I see that your interest,work,knowledge of these matters is more than 
casual:

http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=Martin%20Costabel

As my questions below will indicate, I am not a Mac person myself, but 
am interested in the subject of vpython and Mac.

Do you see a visual-py25 on the horizon?

And:

Is there anywhere where one can find  succinct and complete instructions 
for a fink build??

Ultimately, some are hoping for a vpython that does not require fink.  
Do you have an opinion as to what might be the best path towards that??

Untangling vpython from its boost dependencies does not seem realistic. 
I see that you maintain the boost fink packages.  But is boost itself 
dependent upon fink if it is to be used as a dependency on OS X??

Art