Re: [TWiki-Dev] [SVN] r8572 - in twiki/branches/DEVELOP/twikiplugins/WysiwygPlugin: data/TWiki pub/TWiki/WysiwygPlugin templates

[Kenneth L. <ke...@la...>]

AJA+TwikiDev wrote:

>Kenneth Lavrsen wrote:
>  
>
>>Cra...@nt... wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Item1529: evil, evil. The XMLSerializer in IE isn't happy serializing the DOM. I have no idea why. Kupu manages to get away with this because it passes the DOM through the XML validator, which I had to disable because it strips comments. So, for now, the IE implementation will strip comments - but at least you can save again
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>There is no way you can release Dakar with WYSIWYG bundled with it. Not 
>>even as a beta. Not even as an alpha. As it works now it is not only 
>>useless. It is dangerous.
>>
>>It does not help trying to write your way out of it in the plugin topic. 
>>If people enable the plugin in configure the WYSIWYG button is there and 
>>people will click on it and save no matter what you write.
>>
>>If you are not able to fix this issue - do not bundle WysiwygPlugin with 
>>Dakar! It should not even be on Twiki.org in its present state.
>>    
>>
>
>Sadly I have to agree.
>Sadly, since the WYSIWYG editor is a big selling point and
>sadly because CC has put such sterling work into this.
>   ... facing fearful odds
>   For the ashes of our temples
>   And the Fathers of our Gods ...
>
>We all know in our hearts that its not his fault, that the real culprit
>is MS-IE, which is broken in other ways for reasons I don't want to get
>into a flame-war about.
>
>Unlike Kenneth I don't - presently - have apps that use tags in
>comments, but like everyone else I do use access control in comments.
>So this is a show-stopper.
>
>*sigh* yes I know I long ago suggested moving access control out of
>band, and keep looking at the codebase and wondering ... about moving
>META out of band as well and lazy loading and faster rendering ... but
>can't deliver the attention span.
>
>No, lets not blame CC for this, unless its to blame him for devoted
>heads-down effort, effort that clearly shows though in the work.
>
>If you want culpability then it needs to be spread around.  The whole
>point of being open source is that we should be able to break away from
>the corporate model of a single target, discarding all alternates.  Some
>of us should have been working on other WYSIWYG approaches.
>
>Maybe CC can come up with a solution.  But that's not the point.
>The point is that the rest of us have allowed a single-point-of-failure
>situation to arise.  We've blithely assumed that CC's genius and
>capability, so well demonstrated by his other contributions, will come
>through on time.
>
>But he's human and this isn't Hollywood.  He needs a break and a chance
>to glue back on all the hair he's been pulling out.
>
>So rather than try to transfer our frustration onto him and add to what
>he's already got, why don't we do what we should have done and come up
>with alternatives.
>
>Perhaps Kupu was the wrong starting point ...
>despite http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/EasyEditor
>
>Lets try this:
>   Do you have a favourite HTML editor?
>     Mozilla Composer .. Quanta ..Screem .. hotdog
>     Bluefish .. Nvu .. VI?
>   Client side, right?
>   OK so we loose some features like pop-ups of topics
>   but we gain a comfort factor.
>   Something like
>http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/EditTWikiExternalEditorAddOn
>   perhaps, which, in its present form, is unusable for a number
>   of reasons.
>   Or http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/UseHtmlEditorOfChoice
>   Or http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/EditDaemonWithGVimIntegration
>   Or http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/EditorDaemonAddOn
>
>I've no doubt that CC will write back to say that
>
>   "HTML editors can be integrated using the WysiwygPlugin
>    infrastructure, which currently supports Kupu but could easily
>    support other client-side editors."
>
>as he has before.
>  
>
Good points.

Just one detail. I am not trying to make a big drama out of this or make 
any hard critique of Crawford. I am sure the WysiwygPlugin will come 
back strong in a week or two after the Dakar release. It was pretty good 
a few days ago and unfortunately right now - a few days before the 
release of Dakar - it has a major bug. Too bad.

All I am saying is - do not bundle it with the Dakar we release now 
because it will hurt the impression of TWiki 4.0. It is better to 
introduce it later. Afterall it is a plugin. And we have a 4.0.1 planned 
where it can re-enter. So no panik or big emotions needed.

Kenneth