tuxkart-devel — TuxKart Developers.

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Tuxkart crash

[Charles G. <ch...@ve...>]

On Sat, 2004-08-14 at 12:47 +0200, Ingo Ruhnke wrote:
> The skidmarks currently just grow and grow all the time, so yep, if
> you do a lots of laps you will reach a point where it will get quite
> slow, especially with multiple vehicles, this should however change as
> soon as we start placing skidmarks only when you skid and not all the
> time. Expiring skidmarks might also help, even so this might not
> really be necesarry.

Regardless, I think skidmarks should be optional, and optionally expire.
Don't forget the users with crap hardware - they need a 'back to basics'
graphics mode or a compromise inbetween.
-- 
- Charlie

Charles Goodwin <ch...@ve...>
Online @ www.charlietech.com

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Tuxkart crash

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

"Pascal Giard" <pa...@gu...> writes:

> i then use the same old trick, i fire up quake3 then quit, it brings
> back the mouse and the screen resolution.

That should be avoidable by doing atexit(SDL_QUIT); or something along
the lines, which forces a clean shutdown even on segfault.

> PS: what are hooknodes ?
> PS=B2: i noticed that it doesn't lag during your first lap but then it ge=
ts
> worst and worst... is it because of skidrows or there's more to it ?

The skidmarks currently just grow and grow all the time, so yep, if
you do a lots of laps you will reach a point where it will get quite
slow, especially with multiple vehicles, this should however change as
soon as we start placing skidmarks only when you skid and not all the
time. Expiring skidmarks might also help, even so this might not
really be necesarry.

--=20
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20
JabberID: gr...@ja...=20
ICQ:      59461927

[TuxKart-devel] Tuxkart crash

[Pascal G. <pa...@gu...>]

For the first time, tuxkart crashed on me.

i built from CVS at 04:04:51 -0400.

here's the output:

[...]
WARNING: Speed too high for collision detect!
WARNING: Nsteps=115, Speed=45.969669!
WARNING: Speed too high for collision detect!
WARNING: Nsteps=116, Speed=46.016544!
WARNING: Speed too high for collision detect!
WARNING: Nsteps=116, Speed=46.051704!
More than 200 hooknodes in database!

than i get back to X, mouse no longer works and i'm in 800x600 instead of
1024x768.

i then use the same old trick, i fire up quake3 then quit, it brings back the
mouse and the screen resolution.

-Pascal
PS: what are hooknodes ?
PS²: i noticed that it doesn't lag during your first lap but then it gets
worst and worst... is it because of skidrows or there's more to it ?
--
Projet MoviXMaker (http://sv.gnu.org/projects/movixmaker)
Projet [e]MoviX[2] (http://movix.sf.net) 
Debian Project (http://www.debian.org)
TuxKart (Wiki (GOTM): http://netpanzer.berlios.de/tuxkart/index.php)

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Question about ssgaParticleSystem

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Jacob Persson <st...@sv...> writes:

> We have added a particle system and it works when we attach it to
> the karts. But when we attach it to global space you only see the
> particles when you are facing a specific angle. It doesn't matter
> how large you make the bounding sphere.

The size of the bounding sphere gets overwritten in the
ssgEntity::recalcBSphere() call and set to 0 since the
ssgParticleSystem doesn't override that function, fixed it in CVS.

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

[TuxKart-devel] Question about ssgaParticleSystem

[Jacob P. <st...@sv...>]

Steve, 
 
We have added a particle system and it works when we attach it to the  
karts. But when we attach it to global space you only see the  
particles when you are facing a specific angle. It doesn't matter how  
large you make the bounding sphere. 
 
Do you know why it behaves this way? 
...................................................................

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  Klicka här och välj din kommun! - http://www.lokalnyheterna.se 

[TuxKart-devel] TuxKart Won't Compile On PPC

[<jo...@bv...>]

I am trying 'make' tuxkart,
Mandrake on a PowerBook,
this is what it says:

g++ -DPACKAGE=\"tuxkart\" -DVERSION=\"0.4.0\" -DHAVE_LIBGL=1 
-DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_GL_GL_H=1 -DLINUX_JOYSTICK_IS_PRESENT=1 
-DTUXKART_DATADIR=\"/chez/joel/share/games/tuxkart\"  -I. -I.   
-I/usr/local/include  -g -O2 -O6 -Wall -c -o gfx.o `test -f gfx.cxx || 
echo './'`gfx.cxx
gfx.cxx:7:20: sys/io.h: No such file or directory
gfx.cxx:8:81: sys/perm.h: No such file or directory

glibc is properly installed and ./configure worked
without error.  Apparently, this file is supposed
to not exist on ppc.  

What should I do to get it working?

thanx,
jeo

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[James G. <jam...@bt...>]

On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 22:48, Steve Baker wrote:
> James Gregory wrote:
> 
> > I don't think forcing controls on a player is a solution, either.
> > Putting a link to Steve's page about why certain key combinations don't
> > work in the README might be a nice idea, but I don't like the idea of
> > forcing player 1 and player 2 to use awkward keys in an effort to make
> > 3/4 player sharing of the keyboard easier when very few people are ever
> > going to share the keyboard between more than 2 people.
> 
> I was suggesting that we come up with (say) 6 different alternative settings
> for single player, (say) 3 different pairs of settings for two players and
> just one set of settings for 3 or 4 players.
> 
> There are only so many conventions that programs have for this kind of thing
> and for single player, we can provide all of the common conventions (eg Arrow
> keys, number pad, A/S/W/Z, etc.  For two players, we can also come up with a
> few sets of choices that'll work - but the more keys have to work together,
> the fewer choices there are.
> 
> To get four people playing together - all using the keyboard - may actually
> be impossible.
> 
> Allowing any set of choices - with some kind of an explanation in a README
> file flat out won't work.  Players DON'T READ THE MANUAL.   Also, the rules
> for what keys work together are pretty complex.  I doubt that many non-programmers
> would understand them.
> 
> It's better to provide a few sets that work than leave people to flounder around
> trying to find sets that work.
> 
> Either way, they can't have the exact set of keys they want - that's just not
> possible in general.

Well, OK. If anyone else wants to come up with some sets of keys that
work according to Steve's guide to the evilness of keyboards then they
can email them to this list I'll put them in.

	James

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

James Gregory wrote:

> I don't think forcing controls on a player is a solution, either.
> Putting a link to Steve's page about why certain key combinations don't
> work in the README might be a nice idea, but I don't like the idea of
> forcing player 1 and player 2 to use awkward keys in an effort to make
> 3/4 player sharing of the keyboard easier when very few people are ever
> going to share the keyboard between more than 2 people.

I was suggesting that we come up with (say) 6 different alternative settings
for single player, (say) 3 different pairs of settings for two players and
just one set of settings for 3 or 4 players.

There are only so many conventions that programs have for this kind of thing
and for single player, we can provide all of the common conventions (eg Arrow
keys, number pad, A/S/W/Z, etc.  For two players, we can also come up with a
few sets of choices that'll work - but the more keys have to work together,
the fewer choices there are.

To get four people playing together - all using the keyboard - may actually
be impossible.

Allowing any set of choices - with some kind of an explanation in a README
file flat out won't work.  Players DON'T READ THE MANUAL.   Also, the rules
for what keys work together are pretty complex.  I doubt that many non-programmers
would understand them.

It's better to provide a few sets that work than leave people to flounder around
trying to find sets that work.

Either way, they can't have the exact set of keys they want - that's just not
possible in general.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[James G. <jam...@bt...>]

On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 18:42, Ricardo Cruz wrote:
> Em Quarta, 11 de Agosto de 2004 00:45, o Steve Baker escreveu:
> > Charles Goodwin wrote:
> > > Maybe just restrict to a max of 1 or 2 players per keyboard (KEY1 &
> > > KEY2) requiring joypads or other devices for extra players.  Then the
> > > preselection becomes a bit easier (right?) since there can only be two
> > > players on at once.
> >
> > Even with just one player, you can easily find key combinations that don't
> > work...a completely free choice of keys is really not possible in games
> > where keys are held down rather than just tapped briefly.
> >
>  Steve is right. First time he mentioned this problem, I didn't really care 
> about it. But since a SuperTux player told me that he couldn't jump and move 
> at the same time and it was discovered it was because the keys he has used, I 
> was urged to this problem.
> 
>  Anyway, I still think it is better to let the player choose the keys on a 
> single player game, since it is not likely a problem might happen. But in a 
> multi-player game - and especially a kart one, where you have to keep keys 
> pressed -, it is just better to have default combinations.
> 
>  About Ingo bitching, players get used to keys combinations pretty fast and 
> better this than having a broken control. Telling players to buy gamepads is 
> not a solution either, IMHO.
> 

I don't think forcing controls on a player is a solution, either.
Putting a link to Steve's page about why certain key combinations don't
work in the README might be a nice idea, but I don't like the idea of
forcing player 1 and player 2 to use awkward keys in an effort to make
3/4 player sharing of the keyboard easier when very few people are ever
going to share the keyboard between more than 2 people.

	James

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...>]

Em Quarta, 11 de Agosto de 2004 00:45, o Steve Baker escreveu:
> Charles Goodwin wrote:
> > Maybe just restrict to a max of 1 or 2 players per keyboard (KEY1 &
> > KEY2) requiring joypads or other devices for extra players.  Then the
> > preselection becomes a bit easier (right?) since there can only be two
> > players on at once.
>
> Even with just one player, you can easily find key combinations that don't
> work...a completely free choice of keys is really not possible in games
> where keys are held down rather than just tapped briefly.
>
 Steve is right. First time he mentioned this problem, I didn't really care 
about it. But since a SuperTux player told me that he couldn't jump and move 
at the same time and it was discovered it was because the keys he has used, I 
was urged to this problem.

 Anyway, I still think it is better to let the player choose the keys on a 
single player game, since it is not likely a problem might happen. But in a 
multi-player game - and especially a kart one, where you have to keep keys 
pressed -, it is just better to have default combinations.

 About Ingo bitching, players get used to keys combinations pretty fast and 
better this than having a broken control. Telling players to buy gamepads is 
not a solution either, IMHO.

Cheers,
 Ricardo

-- 
"The bad reputation UNIX has gotten is totally undeserved, laid on by people
who don't understand, who have not gotten in there and tried anything."
		-- Jim Joyce, owner of Jim Joyce's UNIX Bookstore

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[Charles G. <ch...@ve...>]

Steve Baker wrote:

> Charles Goodwin wrote:
>
>> Maybe just restrict to a max of 1 or 2 players per keyboard (KEY1 & 
>> KEY2) requiring joypads or other devices for extra players.  Then the 
>> preselection becomes a bit easier (right?) since there can only be 
>> two players on at once.
>
>
> Even with just one player, you can easily find key combinations that 
> don't
> work...a completely free choice of keys is really not possible in games
> where keys are held down rather than just tapped briefly. 


Oh, I meant to say to give them a fixed choice like you suggested.

- Charlie

Charles Goodwin <ch...@ve...>

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Charles Goodwin wrote:

> Maybe just restrict to a max of 1 or 2 players per keyboard (KEY1 & 
> KEY2) requiring joypads or other devices for extra players.  Then the 
> preselection becomes a bit easier (right?) since there can only be two 
> players on at once.

Even with just one player, you can easily find key combinations that don't
work...a completely free choice of keys is really not possible in games
where keys are held down rather than just tapped briefly.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[Charles G. <ch...@ve...>]

Steve Baker wrote:

> Ricardo Cruz wrote:
>
>>  Go ahead! I love multi player games!
>>
>>  Just want to say something about the controls. As Steve pointed in 
>> an article (sorry, don't have a link), in multi-players games keys 
>> should already be pre-configurated.
>>  I know this sounds like forcing the player, but it is better than 
>> the player setup the keys and then they don't work, without 
>> understanding why.
>
>
> It might be possible to come up with several different key mappings 
> that work and
> give the player the option to choose between them...but it's quite 
> hard to find
> mappings that work for more than a couple of players.
>
> One thing that complicates matters is that some international 
> keyboards have
> different restrictions from US keyboards - also, some 'unusual' 
> keyboards like
> the more costly ergonomic ones have different restrictions.
>
> This is a VERY nasty problem. 


Maybe just restrict to a max of 1 or 2 players per keyboard (KEY1 & 
KEY2) requiring joypads or other devices for extra players.  Then the 
preselection becomes a bit easier (right?) since there can only be two 
players on at once.

- Charlie

Charles Goodwin <ch...@ve...>

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Ricardo Cruz wrote:
>  Go ahead! I love multi player games!
> 
>  Just want to say something about the controls. As Steve pointed in an article 
> (sorry, don't have a link), in multi-players games keys should already be 
> pre-configurated.
>  I know this sounds like forcing the player, but it is better than the player 
> setup the keys and then they don't work, without understanding why.

It might be possible to come up with several different key mappings that work and
give the player the option to choose between them...but it's quite hard to find
mappings that work for more than a couple of players.

One thing that complicates matters is that some international keyboards have
different restrictions from US keyboards - also, some 'unusual' keyboards like
the more costly ergonomic ones have different restrictions.

This is a VERY nasty problem.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] playing with 2 gamepads

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Ingo Ruhnke wrote:

> When I am in a position where only a small portion of the track is
> visible the framerate is also a better, in other section it is however
> still unusable slow. Tweaking the Near/Far clipping planes helps here
> quite a bit, even so that would be more an ugly workaround than a
> solution. wolfman8k mentioned VBOs, which might provide some serious
> speedup over vertex arrays which are currently used in plib (correct
> me if I am wrong here). However I have no idea how good that speed
> boost would be.

It varies *tremendously* from one graphics card to another and even
from one driver version to another.   I'd be suprised if that turned
out to help much.

We could create ssgRangeSelector (aka level-of-detail) nodes to toss
out track segments that are further than some specific range.

> Another problem is that breaking the track up into pieces results in
> seams all over the track, this might be due to the way the AC3d
> exporter works which might result in some nummerical errors, however
> havn't checked the details.

I can't explain that problem - it doesn't happen with files created
within AC3D.  Since AC3D files are ASCII text, it should be really
easy to figure it out with a two polygon test model.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes:

>  That's a good point, but the fact is that it is better to just let
> the player select from a few default key arrangements than let him
> choose himself, since it will eventually end up with a configuration
> that doesn't work. This gets really problematic with multi-player.

People don't play multiplayer all the time, so it would just be damn
stupid to force them to some unconfortable layout.

>  I guess you haven't heard of ghost keys... because it is actually
> due to 3 and 4 players that default key arrangements are needed.

There is no way that you get 3 or 4 players, each with 6 keys, two of
them almost constantly pressed, working smoothly anyway, no matter if
you provide defaults or not.

> If they all play using the keyboard, most likely there will be
> problems with the keys *.

Yes, that is at is has been since the very early DOS days and it won't
go away even with more usefull choosen defaults keys. If people want
comfortable multiplayer, they have to buy a bunch of gamepads.

>> 3. Not all keyboards all over the world have the same key layout.
>> Having an unchangeable setup is really going to upset people with,
>> for instance, AZERTY keyboards. Although I'm not sure how common
>> these are nowadays - I assume you're not using a QWERTZU keyboard,
>> grumbel?

>  Dunno how games solve this issue, maybe having different key
> arrangements for different keyboards layouts.

There are two solutions:

a) use keysym instead of keyid, or however they are called, ie. the
first gives you the physical key on the keyboard that is pressed, the
second gives you the letter that it produces. Might work or not,
depending on your luck and the configuration on the users side.

b) Just provide a good config dialog, such as the one for zsnes, which
makes reconfiguring a joy, 5sec and a new joypad or the keyboard is up
and running perfectly.

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...>]

Em Ter=E7a, 10 de Agosto de 2004 16:08, o James Gregory escreveu:
> On Tue, 2004-08-10 at 14:17, Ricardo Cruz wrote:
> >  Go ahead! I love multi player games!
> >
> >  Just want to say something about the controls. As Steve pointed in an
> > article (sorry, don't have a link), in multi-players games keys should
> > already be pre-configurated.
> >  I know this sounds like forcing the player, but it is better than the
> > player setup the keys and then they don't work, without understanding
> > why.
> >
> >  So, just want to ask the one that will make the control configuration =
to
> > make it in the same line as ClanBomber's one (sorry, didn't find a
> > screenshot), where the player can choose between: Gamepad 1 (2, 3... if
> > available), Keyboard cursors, Keyboard left part, Keyboard middle... and
> > mouse (if needed). Each "device" having an image.
>
> Huh? Don't have an option to setup keyboard controls? That's just silly,
> there are a number of reasons why you might not want to use the default
> setup:
>
> 1. You simply don't like the default setup . Maybe you've played so much
> Counterstrike you want to use some keys over on left of the keyboard for
> cursors.
>
 That's a good point, but the fact is that it is better to just let the pla=
yer=20
select from a few default key arrangements than let him choose himself, sin=
ce=20
it will eventually end up with a configuration that doesn't work.
 This gets really problematic with multi-player.

> 2. If you have just one player, you will probably want to use the
> cursors for movement, but some keys some distance away on the keyboard
> for fire, jump, etc (currently we use a,s,d,f). However, if there are 3
> or 4 people having to share the keyboard then there's no way you want
> player one using a,s,d,f, as someone is probably going to be using
> a,s,d,w as cursors.
>
 I guess you haven't heard of ghost keys... because it is actually due to 3=
=20
and 4 players that default key arrangements are needed.
 If they all play using the keyboard, most likely there will be problems wi=
th=20
the keys *.

> 3. Not all keyboards all over the world have the same key layout. Having
> an unchangeable setup is really going to upset people with, for
> instance, AZERTY keyboards. Although I'm not sure how common these are
> nowadays - I assume you're not using a QWERTZU keyboard, grumbel?
>
 Dunno how games solve this issue, maybe having different key arrangements =
for=20
different keyboards layouts.


* Please, read these articles to understand the issue:
http://sjbaker.org/steve/omniv/keyboards_are_evil.html (by Steve Baker - se=
ems=20
to be offline, at the moment)
http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade_input.shtml#KeyboardGhosting

Cheers,
 Ricardo

> 	James
>

=2D-=20
I've read SEVEN MILLION books!!

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Re: [Tuxkart-cvs] tuxkart/src Driver.h,1.14,1.15 joystick.h,1.3,1.4 PlayerDriver.cxx,1.12,1.13 sdldrv.cxx,1.16,1.17 sdldrv.h,1.6,1.7

[Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...>]

 Let me just throw in with my 2 cents.

 In my opinion, if SDL is more confortable for developers to work with, the=
re=20
is no problem with using it. And, in the future, it would get replaced by=20
Plib calls.

Cheers,
 Ricardo

Em S=E1bado, 7 de Agosto de 2004 19:52, o Ryan Flegel escreveu:
> On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 13:16:44 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...>=20
wrote:
> > It's completely unnecessary to do this switch - and it's a total
> > waste of effort - both for you to put it in and for me to take it
> > out again.
>
> I agree, if PLIB can do the job then we should be using PLIB. From
> what I understand PLIB's input lib would work fine. Or am I mistaken?

=2D-=20
Your domestic life may be harmonious.

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[Ryan F. <rf...@gm...>]

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:08:25 +0100, James Gregory
<jam...@bt...> wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-08-10 at 14:17, Ricardo Cruz wrote:
> >  Go ahead! I love multi player games!
> >
> >  Just want to say something about the controls. As Steve pointed in an article
> > (sorry, don't have a link), in multi-players games keys should already be
> > pre-configurated.
> >  I know this sounds like forcing the player, but it is better than the player
> > setup the keys and then they don't work, without understanding why.
> >
> >  So, just want to ask the one that will make the control configuration to make
> > it in the same line as ClanBomber's one (sorry, didn't find a screenshot),
> > where the player can choose between: Gamepad 1 (2, 3... if available),
> > Keyboard cursors, Keyboard left part, Keyboard middle... and mouse (if
> > needed). Each "device" having an image.
> >
> 
> Huh? Don't have an option to setup keyboard controls? That's just silly,
> there are a number of reasons why you might not want to use the default
> setup:
> 
> 1. You simply don't like the default setup . Maybe you've played so much
> Counterstrike you want to use some keys over on left of the keyboard for
> cursors.
> 
> 2. If you have just one player, you will probably want to use the
> cursors for movement, but some keys some distance away on the keyboard
> for fire, jump, etc (currently we use a,s,d,f). However, if there are 3
> or 4 people having to share the keyboard then there's no way you want
> player one using a,s,d,f, as someone is probably going to be using
> a,s,d,w as cursors.
> 
> 3. Not all keyboards all over the world have the same key layout. Having
> an unchangeable setup is really going to upset people with, for
> instance, AZERTY keyboards. Although I'm not sure how common these are
> nowadays - I assume you're not using a QWERTZU keyboard, grumbel?

4. Not to mention the reasons discussed here:
http://sjbaker.org/steve/omniv/keyboards_are_evil.html

-- 
Ryan

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Split screen multiplayer

[James G. <jam...@bt...>]

On Tue, 2004-08-10 at 14:17, Ricardo Cruz wrote:
>  Go ahead! I love multi player games!
> 
>  Just want to say something about the controls. As Steve pointed in an article 
> (sorry, don't have a link), in multi-players games keys should already be 
> pre-configurated.
>  I know this sounds like forcing the player, but it is better than the player 
> setup the keys and then they don't work, without understanding why.
> 
>  So, just want to ask the one that will make the control configuration to make 
> it in the same line as ClanBomber's one (sorry, didn't find a screenshot), 
> where the player can choose between: Gamepad 1 (2, 3... if available), 
> Keyboard cursors, Keyboard left part, Keyboard middle... and mouse (if 
> needed). Each "device" having an image.
> 

Huh? Don't have an option to setup keyboard controls? That's just silly,
there are a number of reasons why you might not want to use the default
setup:

1. You simply don't like the default setup . Maybe you've played so much
Counterstrike you want to use some keys over on left of the keyboard for
cursors.

2. If you have just one player, you will probably want to use the
cursors for movement, but some keys some distance away on the keyboard
for fire, jump, etc (currently we use a,s,d,f). However, if there are 3
or 4 people having to share the keyboard then there's no way you want
player one using a,s,d,f, as someone is probably going to be using
a,s,d,w as cursors.

3. Not all keyboards all over the world have the same key layout. Having
an unchangeable setup is really going to upset people with, for
instance, AZERTY keyboards. Although I'm not sure how common these are
nowadays - I assume you're not using a QWERTZU keyboard, grumbel?

	James

Re: [TuxKart-devel] playing with 2 gamepads

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> writes:

> Both collision code and rendering code will benefit IMMENSELY from
> having the track broken up into short segments. Without that, there
> is no way to cull by field of view - and the collision detection
> code will have to do really costly testing for just about every
> polygon.

Tried that now and at least the time it took until the track gets
useable went down to zero (aka. the slow-on-startup problem went
completly away).

When I am in a position where only a small portion of the track is
visible the framerate is also a better, in other section it is however
still unusable slow. Tweaking the Near/Far clipping planes helps here
quite a bit, even so that would be more an ugly workaround than a
solution. wolfman8k mentioned VBOs, which might provide some serious
speedup over vertex arrays which are currently used in plib (correct
me if I am wrong here). However I have no idea how good that speed
boost would be.

Another problem is that breaking the track up into pieces results in
seams all over the track, this might be due to the way the AC3d
exporter works which might result in some nummerical errors, however
havn't checked the details.

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [TuxKart-devel] sdldrv.cxx:22:25: gui/BaseGUI.h: No such file or directory

[Charles G. <ch...@ve...>]

Ingo Ruhnke wrote:

>You need to use automake 1.6 or larger, earlier versions can't handle
>subdirectories in a single Makefile.
>  
>

Is it possible to adapt the Makefile to reflect this (ie give a 
meaningful error such as, "You need automake 1.6 or greater")?

Re: [TuxKart-devel] sdldrv.cxx:22:25: gui/BaseGUI.h: No such file or directory

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Craig Keogh <cs...@bi...> writes:

> Date: 2004/08/05 18:33:00;  author: jamesgregory; (from Gnus)
> Whenever I try to compile tuxkart from CVS I get:
>
> sdldrv.cxx:22:25: gui/BaseGUI.h: No such file or directory
> tuxkart.h:47:25: gui/BaseGUI.h: No such file or directory
>
> Haven't been able to compile from CVS since
> sdldrv.cxx revision 1.14
> date: 2004/08/05 18:33:00;  author: jamesgregory;

You need to use automake 1.6 or larger, earlier versions can't handle
subdirectories in a single Makefile.

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

[TuxKart-devel] sdldrv.cxx:22:25: gui/BaseGUI.h: No such file or directory

[Craig K. <cs...@bi...>]

Whenever I try to compile tuxkart from CVS I get:

sdldrv.cxx:22:25: gui/BaseGUI.h: No such file or directory
tuxkart.h:47:25: gui/BaseGUI.h: No such file or directory

Haven't been able to compile from CVS since
sdldrv.cxx revision 1.14
date: 2004/08/05 18:33:00;  author: jamesgregory;

-- 
Craig Keogh

Re: [TuxKart-devel] playing with 2 gamepads

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

If you read the section on "How Steve Baker builds tracks" here:

http://netpanzer.berlios.de/tuxkart/index.php/Procedure%20For%20Building%20Tracks

...you'll see that the procedure I recommend just 'naturally' makes it
Cull and collision-detect nicely because each 10m to 20m section ends up
being a separate object.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
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