tuxkart-devel — TuxKart Developers.

[TuxKart-devel] Location sysem

[Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...>]

Hey there,

 I noticed that TuxKart doesn't make a very smart checking where it is placed. 
Just looks at local dir, up dir and system chunk (/usr).
 Smarter location checking would be:
- asking proc for the binary directory;
- look at the way the binary was executed - won't be able to get the location 
for symlinks.

 An implementation of the last one is here:
http://

 By the way, using chdir() is kinda of ugly. What about having a global 
string?

 Best fix, however, would be to make Linux file manager to execute binaries 
from their own dir.

Cheers,
 Ricardo
(blacksheep from Linux Game Tome)

-- 
I've spent almost all of my life with highly intelligent men.  They're not
like other men.  Their spirit is great and stimulating.  They hate strife;
indeed they reject it.  Their inventive gifts are boundless.  They demand
devotion and obedience.  And a sense of humor.  I happily gave all of this.
I was lucky to be chosen and clever enough to understand them.
		-- Marlene Dietrich, on her friendship with Ernest Hemingway

Re: [TuxKart-devel] hey caleb256 subscibed

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Bram Stolk wrote:

> What is this GoTM you speak of?

There is a kindof a project over on the HappyPenguin forums
(http://happypenguin.org/) where everyone votes on a "Game of The Month"
(GoTM).  The game that's picked is supposed to be a promising game
that just never got "finished" for one reason or another.  The idea
is that people there believe this game could be kicked into shape with
a couple of month's intensive help by a loosely bound group of
developers who hang out over there.

Well, it now looks certain that TuxKart is the game that will be picked this
month.  The voting doesn't formally end until Thursday IIRC - but TuxKart
has something like 95% of the votes...and people are already talking
about what has to be done.

So - the sudden burst of activity here is a direct result of that...expect
it to last a couple of months and then tail off sharply.

It'll be interesting to see where this goes!

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
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Re: [TuxKart-devel] Thoughts on Kart Models.

[Caleb S. <gam...@gm...>]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 03:49:43 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote:
> 
> (Cross-posted to HP Game of The Month - because I don't think everyone
> is over here yet).
> 
> Someone posted a new BSOD-kart model to that forum...here were my
> comments:
> 
> caleb256 wrote:
> 
>  > ok I have made a bsod needs to be textured (can't find his texture :/ )
>  > http://berty.dyndns.org/~caleb/tuxkart/bosd.ac
>  > http://berty.dyndns.org/~caleb/tuxkart/bosd.blend
> 
> As I said before, Karts are pretty much only seen from the rear end. It
> is UTTERLY imperative that artists think about that as they work.
> 
> This kart looks *identical* (because it is) to Grumbel's 'tuxkart4' - but
> with a different driver. I don't think that's going to work. The four (or
> hopefully many more) Karts have to be distinctive from the rear so you can
> tell who is who. My original kart models - although crude and almost identical
> vehicles - had the virtue that they showed off the driver very well - and
> since the drivers were all very different, it was extremely easy to see who
> was who from behind. Grumbel's kart has Tux sitting much lower (more like
> a real GoKart than a cartoon-style thing) - which is OK so long as the other
> karts are *WAY* different so we can tell who's who.

I was thinking of the same thing.

> 
> This kart has a *tiny* BSOD figure - whom you quite literally cannot see at
> all from behind.
>

bah it was not very much of any thing just a cube with a blue face :D
 
> Here is what I would build for a BSOD kart - I'd like to see a model of a
> classic beige-box desk-side PC with CD-ROMs for wheels and the CD drive tray
> opened up to make the seat-back. Take some liberties with real PC design by
> putting the computer on it's side - it doesn't have to be a literally correct
> portrayal - so long as it has recognisable elements of a PC, that's how people
> will see it. However, turning things around allows the back panel of the to be
> on the back of the Kart where we can see it. Plan to have some cables trailing
> out fluttering in the breeze as though they were ripped away from whatever they
> were connected to as the *evil* BSOD absconded with someone's PC. The CD-ROM
> wheels can have 'TuxKart 1.0.0 Backup: 27th July 2005" textured onto them like
> it was hand-written in magic marker.
> 
> This fits the bill for what we need:
> 
> 1) It's DISTINCTIVE from the rear...you can quite easily tell who it is even
>     when he's just a dozen pixels across out in the distance.
> 
> 2) It's INTERESTING from the rear - fluttering cables, maybe with some animated
>     sparks coming out of them. Perhaps some flashing LED's and a spinning power
>     supply fan with little vortices coming out of it. Think: "Pointless eye-candy".
> 
> 3) It's FUNNY/SILLY/CUTE - this is a fun game - not a serious/realistic game.
>     Think of outrageous things to make Karts out of. A computer on wheels is just
>     fine for this genre.
> 
> 4) It fits the established CHARACTER of the 'person' driving it. BSOD is The Evil
>     Blue-screen-of-death -- the antipathy and arch-enemy of Tux. Stealing someone's
>     computer and turning it into a GoKart is exactly the kind of nasty thing we'd
>     expect him to do...so that's what he has to be doing.
> 
> 5) It opens up the possibilities for 'special' attacks and defences - like if you
>     try to rear-end BSOD, you get electrocuted by the sparks from the trailing
>     cables.  He could shoot CD-ROMs as weapons and get huge speedups from driving
>     over nVidia chips in the road on his own special levels. The players will
>     understand why this is immediately if the kart is a computer on wheels. If it's
>     a regular GoKart driven by what looks like a grey cube - it won't make *ANY*
>     sense at all.

also how about if you use a magnet on him he goes mental and I was
thinking he could the super attack MEGA LAG so that all the other
players lag for 1-2 mins and he is fine :D

well its just a thought and what are we going to do about geeko??
> 
> (I'm sorry to come over as negative on these contributions - I'm really VERY
> appreciative of everyone's efforts - they are all food for thought - but it's no
> good just to say "Wow - really good" and then quietly dump the graphic later -
> because that doesn't achieve ANYTHING.)


thats OK it was just a quick 10 min job. If you had said "Wow - really
good" I would have been shock :O

> 
> ---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
> HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
> HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
> Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
>             http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
> V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
> -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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[TuxKart-devel] Getting Started.

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Looks like a lot of people from GoTM are already subscribed here,
I think we should kick off with a more comprehensive ToDo List.


Here is the ToDo from the TuxKart thread over on HP GoTM with more
of my comments.   Please chip in with suggestions (and volunteering):


1) Better kart dynamics (skidding, etc). I didn't think I needed that at the
    time - but enough people tell me it sucks without it that I have to agree.

We talked some about using ODE physics for this...that seems possible.
This is a concrete decision we have to take - we can't start off on one route
and change our minds.

Does anyone have much ODE experience?   I've played with it (with mixed
success).

Either way, we want some variety in the Kart's handling - so we can vary
the power, the tyre grip, etc, etc.



2) Better eye-candy (smoke puffs, skid marks, etc).

This is fairly simple - the PLIB library supports particle systems and
most of these things can be described that way.  We need some hooks in the
game engine to turn them on - and someone to paint some small textures for
the particles themselves.

Do we have any particle system gurus?   I've done some work with them...but
it's not like I don't have anything else to do here!



3) Improved collision detection (sometimes a kart will fall through a hole in
    the terrain)

Two choices:

    If we go with ODE, it has it's own collision detection - although you
    can supply your own.  Dunno if it's fast enough though.

    If we don't go with ODE - or if we don't want to use ODE's collision
    library - we can just try to fix whatever the bug is in the present
    system.

I guess we need to work the ODE decision first.



4) More tracks, better 3D models in general...this game was designed for a
    graphics card that could draw maybe 1000 polygons at reasonable frame rates.
    Modern cards can to a thousand times more than that.

We've had a couple of ideas for new models.

Basically, we have three catagories of model:

    a) Characters and their GoKarts...we need (IMHO) at least six of these so
       that we don't have to run all the same characters in all of the races.

    b) Racetracks.  Some of the present ones are OK "as is" - others need to be
       dumped or radically improved.   I'd like to get a thread started with
       ideas for new tracks.

    c) Special effects, road hazards, weapons & collectibles.  These tend to
       be quite easy to do...we just need a list.


5) Better enemy AI (OK - *some* enemy AI!) - at present, the enemy karts just
    steer to try to follow a curve laid down through the approximate center of
    the track..

Um - yes.  Help!  Who does good AI?


6) Split-screen Multiplayer maybe? MarioKart is a lot of fun in multiplayer -
    so TuxKart would be too.

I can certainly handle this...in fact, I think I'll work this today.


7) Stuff like high score tables, option pages, action replay....

Yep.  LOTS of annoying minor details here.  Ability to select a player,
ability to select a course using screenshots, ability to pick difficulty
levels and show kart properties (eg Speed, Accelleration, Grip, Damage
resistance).


8) An improved 'bridge' from Blender to '.ac' format. (or maybe a '.blend'
    loader for PLIB).

It's not clear whether we have to improve TuxKart's handling of '.ac', improve
Blender's exporter, or write an entire new '.blend' loader for AC3D.  Comments
please?


9) Shadows under the Karts, Environment mapping for shiney chrome exhausts, etc.

I've already added simple spheremapping...it looks good on Grumbel's new kart.
Shadows are very easy - but they have to track along the ground - I can do that
easily.


10) Considering getting network play working.

I checked the TuxKart code - and there is very minimal network code there, it'll
need a complete rewrite I suspect.   Probably we should leave this until/unless
someone passionately wants to do it.


---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
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Re: [TuxKart-devel] Thoughts on Kart Models.

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Ingo Ruhnke wrote:
> Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> writes:
> 
>>Character identifiability is CRUCIAL to these kinds of games.
> 
> Yep, and therefore its important that the character has some kind of
> personallity to identify them. MrLaptop and MrBSOD didn't had any kind
> of personality, they looked just like poor tries to do a bit Microsoft
> bashing, thats why we dumped them in SuperTux, there was just no way
> one could relate to them.

But how do you *start* a character with a personality?

I'd like to know what process you'd like to use to try to get some
kind of 'recognition' into these critters?

If you have a better way - I'd truly like to hear it.  However,
simply tossing out somewhat established characters and putting in
wholly new ones doesn't really acomplish very much.

Characters don't have to be deep - it's not like I need to know
their opinions or politics - but I DO need to know who the good
guys are and who the bad guys are...who likes herring and who would
be likely to shoot CD-ROMS.

I didn't have anything to do with "Mr Laptop" - but BSOD is obviously
a bad guy.  Everyone knows that a Blue Screen of Death isn't a good
thing...so he's obviously a bad guy.  We know the attributes of a
computer - so when we see him shooting CD-ROMs and getting benefits
from driving over computer chips - we immediately understand what's
happening.

We have to have *SOMETHING* like that or else it's just random and
meaningless.

In any Mario game, you know that a tiny toadstool is an extra 'life'
or a good guy whom you want to talk to instead of killing.  Why a
toadstool of all things??  I have no idea - but since this has been
true in every Mario game since the very first, I don't need to ask,
I don't need to RTFM...you know a LOT about the game from the
get-go - and that makes it easier for the game designer to communicate
with the end-user.

Game players don't read manuals...you have to do SOMETHING to make
that connection.


>>BSOD was my idea - Gown came from that other game who's name I've
>>forgotten,
> 
> 'xtux' I think.

Thanks - Yes, that was it.

>>- and I can only guess that you didn't think it through.
> 
> Well, there wasn't that much to think through, most characters sucked,
> some names sucked, so we fixed that, plain and simple. Beside that I
> simply doubt that the current character set has any much name
> recognition yet, sure some geeks now them, but thats it. Neither
> SuperTux, TuxAQFH or Tuxkart where at a stage where I would call them
> playable back then.

Go read some 'TuxKart' reviews out there.  The game doesn't explicitly
*say* what her name is unless you dig through the config files - but
a lot of them mention her by name.

I have a clipping someone sent me from a Japanese game magazine - I
can't read any of the Japanese text in the review - except that
I see the words "TuxKart", "Tux" and "Gown".  Where did they find out
that name?   They must have seen it elsewhere and recognised her.

Of course they *might* be saying "we can't pronounce 'Gown' so this
game sucks"...I have no idea.

>>See my previous argument for why this is stupid. You guys were
>>undoing an awful lot of very carefully thought out work done by a
>>lot more people than (probably) participated in your vote.
> 
> Well, it wasn't really a vote, it was more that all people agreed on a
> name chance and nobody was oposed to 'Penny'.

Hardly a rational way to choose.

>>We RESEARCHED Gown.
> 
> It didn't seem to have worked much good, since the unpronounceability
> of the name in many non-english languages didn't seem to have taking
> into account.

OK - I'll bite.  Which languages had this problem?   How did you figure
out that 'Penny' was OK?   How many languages did you survey?
Where did you get in contact with all those native speakers in order to
be sure that "Penny" doesn't mean "Stinking Pile of Dog Pooh" in Mongolian?

Huge multinational corporations naming really important things like cars
get this wrong all the time - I find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe that a few
OpenSource developers were able to deduce this in any meaningful way.

Be honest - someone didn't like the name - so without thinking carefully
about it, you just changed it.  I very much doubt that Penny is any
better at all than Gown in every language that's widely spoken by Linux
users.

At least in English 'Gown' has mild humor value and it's memorable for
that reason - and the vast proportion of Linux gamers must speak English
because the overwhelming majority of Linux games are written only in
English and never get translated into anything else.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
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Re: [TuxKart-devel] hey caleb256 subscibed

[Bram S. <br...@sa...>]

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:20:25 -0500
Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote:

> Things have been pretty quiet on this list - but it looks like
> we are gonna get very busy very soon as GoTM'ers start arriving!

What is this GoTM you speak of?

  Bram


-- 
"For the costs of subsidized agriculture in the EU, we can have all 56 million
 European cows fly around the world. First Class." - J. Norberg

[TuxKart-devel] Developer privilages.

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Everyone who wants to work on the GoTM TuxKart effort will need developer
access to CVS.  Please let me have your sourceforge account names so
I can turn this on.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
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Re: [TuxKart-devel] Thoughts on Kart Models.

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> writes:

> Character identifiability is CRUCIAL to these kinds of games.

Yep, and therefore its important that the character has some kind of
personallity to identify them. MrLaptop and MrBSOD didn't had any kind
of personality, they looked just like poor tries to do a bit Microsoft
bashing, thats why we dumped them in SuperTux, there was just no way
one could relate to them.

> If we invent a new character then nobody will know who the heck it
> is, whether it's a good guy or a bad guy, whether it's a stumbling
> idiot or a cunning tactician.

Doesn't really matter in a Kart game if you know the characters or
not, the 'cuteness' is quite a bit more important.

> Now - if every OpenSourced game of the 'cute' genre goes off and
> invents a new set of characters - we'll never build that set of
> characters that people can identify.

Well, maybe not, but I would prefer a wide range of different
characters in different games anytime about seeing BSOD driving or
walking around on my screen.

> Did you notice that Mario originally had a blue hat and red shirt
> rather than the red hat and blue shirt he always wears now? Do you
> think that was a mistake or a carefully thought out design decision?
> Read on...

Design decisions on early-Mario were in large part done for technical
reasons (limited number of colors, low resolutions and such).

> BSOD was my idea - Gown came from that other game who's name I've
> forgotten,

'xtux' I think.

> It is extremely difficult to get 'name recognition' for your
> characters, once you've got it, don't throw it away or screw it up.

Name recognition requires that one has a recognizable name in the
first place, thats why we dumped 'Gown'. There wasn't anybody that
liked that name and in a lot of languages it was simply
unpronounceable, thus not much recognizable.

> It's MUCH better to pick a set that most players will recognise than it
> is to invent a whole new set that nobody knows.

Only if the set itself is any good.

> I'm frankly horrified that you guys changed that in SuperTux...it was a
> really bad tactical mistake IMHO

Most of the players think different.

> - and I can only guess that you didn't think it through.

Well, there wasn't that much to think through, most characters sucked,
some names sucked, so we fixed that, plain and simple. Beside that I
simply doubt that the current character set has any much name
recognition yet, sure some geeks now them, but thats it. Neither
SuperTux, TuxAQFH or Tuxkart where at a stage where I would call them
playable back then.

> Certainly I'd like to see the BSD Daemon ('Beastie'), Mozilla, and
> Wilbur (The GIMP) added to our set. Wilbur is difficult because he
> doesn't have a body - which is the reason he's not in TuxKart right
> now.

I kind of have a strong dislike for just having driving
software-logos, neither of them really has anykind of personality,
beside that I don't think they mix all that well.

> See my previous argument for why this is stupid. You guys were
> undoing an awful lot of very carefully thought out work done by a
> lot more people than (probably) participated in your vote.

Well, it wasn't really a vote, it was more that all people agreed on a
name chance and nobody was oposed to 'Penny'.

> We RESEARCHED Gown.

It didn't seem to have worked much good, since the unpronounceability
of the name in many non-english languages didn't seem to have taking
into account.

> We carefully made her the same basic size and shape as Tux so that
> in games where it matters, the game designer can have them fit
> through the same sized doors and have them not look stupid when they
> can jump the same height and run at the same speed...maybe share the
> same 'bones' to cut down on the animation workload.

Which would have been ok for a 'brother' character, but for a female
character reusing almost the same body just doesn't work very well.

> Gown *IS* called Gown - and hundreds of thousands of Linux gamers
> know that. You can no more vote to change that than you could have
> Nintendo change Mario's name to Bob.

We didn't just changed the name, we basically started to create a new
character. Current SuperTux doesn't even contain a picture how her, so
the design is pretty much open for discussion.

> or introduct the possibility that Tux is two-timing his faithful
> companion of all these years. That in turn damages Tux's character -

Not really, Mario has Princess Daisy and Princess Peace (in some
countries called Toadstool) and nobody really seems to care.

> which erodes the plot line

Havn't yet seen a Tux game with something that is worth calling a
'plot-line'.

> Please understand - Game design is a SCIENCE - these decisions are
> things you arrive at after careful thought - not just on a whim when
> you say "lets have a poll about this".

Game Design should be art, not science, if we continue the route of
Microsoft bashing and walking logos we are doomed to fail.

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Thoughts on Kart Models.

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Oh - I just remembered the other character.  We used 'Clippie' the
Microsoft dancing paperclip as another minor bad-guy character.

In these days of lawsuits and Microsoft having finally 'noticed'
Linux, that might be a bad idea.  :-(

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
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Re: [TuxKart-devel] Thoughts on Kart Models.

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Ryan Flegel wrote:

> For SuperTux GotM we moved away from the geek-theme (ie, evil BSOD's)
> and made it a little more "realistic" (you know, walking iceballs and
> iceblocks :). I don't think that would be a bad idea for TuxKart to go
> thise route either. There seems to be quite a few linux-geek-theme
> games out there and to anyone new to linux (or that just doesn't get
> the "joke") it may look kind of dumb or not make sense.

Well, here's the deal.  You need characters...things *with* character.

Nintendo and Sony (and pretty much all the other 'cute' game companies)
have spent billions working up their characters and getting them identifyable.

There can't be many people who don't know who Mario is - and I'd be suprised
if there were any games players who didn't know who Peach, Luigi, Wario and
Bowser are.

Do they feel that they need to replace their characters because they've used
them too much?   NO!!  To the contrary - they even bring in characters that
are over-used from other pantheons to expand the set.  (Note the appearance
of Pikachu, DonkeyKong, etc in their more recent games).

Character identifiability is CRUCIAL to these kinds of games.

If we invent a new character then nobody will know who the heck it is,
whether it's a good guy or a bad guy, whether it's a stumbling idiot
or a cunning tactician.

In the Mario 'world', you know that if you choose DonkeyKong's kart,
you'll have banana 'privilages' (DK doesn't skid on them like everyone
else) - you also know that he's a big guy - so you aren't suprised that
his heavy kart is harder to steer but better in collisions.

You didn't need to RTFM to know that...you just knew it.

Now - if every OpenSourced game of the 'cute' genre goes off and invents
a new set of characters - we'll never build that set of characters that
people can identify.

Please don't come away with the idea that this was all an arbitary
decision - it was all well-researched.   It wasn't just me.  Here is the history:

So - we needed a set that everyone can use.  When TuxAQFH, TuxKart, TuxRacer,
SuperTux and ..some other one (I don't recall it's name) were being developed,
the developers got together and thought carefully about these characters.

Characters like Sonic, Mario, Crash Bandicoot, etc are CAREFULLY chosen and
people write huge 'style guides' for their artists to work with.  Did you notice
that Mario originally had a blue hat and red shirt rather than the red hat and
blue shirt he always wears now?  Do you think that was a mistake or a carefully
thought out design decision?  Read on...

BSOD was my idea - Gown came from that other game who's name I've forgotten,
I wrote a letter to SuSE asking them if we could use their Camelion and if
so, what was it's name?  Their response was a resounding YES - and they
ran a competition to choose the name ("Geeko" won - Susie came second).

The original Gown was just a baby-blue version of Tux with pink eyes - she
looked terrible.  I emailed a bunch of sites dedicated to women in OpenSource
(eg TuxChix) and asked them for their input on what Gown should look like.
They suprised me by NOT wanting some kind of strong 'grrrl' image but
almost universally wanted either the Foxxy character you can see on
my Tux history page (http://www.sjbaker.org/tux) - but some cross between
Minnie mouse and Daffy Duck.   I played around a bit and Tux's girlfriend
was born as a somewhat girl-shaped penguin in a red and white spotted
mini-skirt and with a bow on her head (so you can tell her from Tux when
she's in a GoKart!).  Her beak is a little shorter and more rounded
and her eyes are larger and blue instead of black.

It is extremely difficult to get 'name recognition' for your characters,
once you've got it, don't throw it away or screw it up.

It's MUCH better to pick a set that most players will recognise than it
is to invent a whole new set that nobody knows.

I'm frankly horrified that you guys changed that in SuperTux...it was a
really bad tactical mistake IMHO - and I can only guess that you didn't
think it through.

> I'm not saying that we *definitely* should get rid of the BSOD's
> (after all, I think it fits a lot better into a racing game than into
> a game like supertux), but I do think it's something we should think
> about. Also, if we invent new characters (so we have 6-8), it gets
> kind of repetitive when we have a bunch of boring geek stuff.

We need to add characters - that's for sure.  The only reason there weren't
more in the original TuxKart was because I'm not a great artist and four
were the minimum I could get away with!

Certainly I'd like to see the BSD Daemon ('Beastie'), Mozilla, and Wilbur
(The GIMP) added to our set.  Wilbur is difficult because he doesn't have
a body - which is the reason he's not in TuxKart right now.  I chose not
to do Beastie at the time because he absolutely requires a heck of a lot
of polygons what with the trident and all.  Mozilla wasn't the popular
package it is now - and back then when it was still pronounced "Netscape",
so I don't think people would have recognised the red dinosaur.

> Also, Gown should be renamed to Penny :P Ok.. maybe not. We ended up
> doing this in SuperTux because we found it sounded much nicer.

 > After a vote it won by a landslide (I'm pretty sure all votes went towards it
 > :)

AAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!

See my previous argument for why this is stupid.   You guys were undoing
an awful lot of very carefully thought out work done by a lot more people
than (probably) participated in your vote.

We RESEARCHED Gown.  We asked female gamers - who might want to hit the
'Play as Gown' button.

We asked if they liked the name...they did.   We cared less about what male
programmers thought of the name than we did what female gamers thought.

We carefully made her the same basic size and shape as Tux so that in
games where it matters, the game designer can have them fit through
the same sized doors and have them not look stupid when they can jump
the same height and run at the same speed...maybe share the same 'bones'
to cut down on the animation workload.

We carefully made her the same basic colouration (requiring a change
to the game that made her blue) because it's easier to tune the
colours of the backgrounds when you know the colour of your characters.
If Gown is blue - then levels with a blue sky in them will make it
hard to see her.  (That's why there are so few blue Nintendo characters).
Notice that BSOD's blue screen has a white 'bezel' around it - so you
can still see him clearly against a blue background - since he MUST be
blue.

Gown *IS* called Gown - and hundreds of thousands of Linux gamers know
that. You can no more vote to change that than you could have Nintendo
change Mario's name to Bob.  What you have probably done is either confuse
people who already know her name - or introduct the possibility that Tux
is two-timing his faithful companion of all these years.  That in turn
damages Tux's character - which erodes the plot line of every other
game that uses Tux-is-rescuing-Gown or Gown-is-rescuing-Tux.   Changing
her name (or appearance) is vandalism!

Please understand - Game design is a SCIENCE - these decisions are things
you arrive at after careful thought - not just on a whim when you say
"lets have a poll about this".  If the reasons BEHIND such a choice
are not carefully discussed then the people doing the voting will make
bad choices that you'll regret later on.

Ack!

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] Thoughts on Kart Models.

[Ryan F. <rf...@gm...>]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 03:49:43 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote:

> Here is what I would build for a BSOD kart - I'd like to see a model of a
> classic beige-box desk-side PC with CD-ROMs for wheels and the CD drive tray
> opened up to make the seat-back. Take some liberties with real PC design by
> putting the computer on it's side - it doesn't have to be a literally correct
> portrayal - so long as it has recognisable elements of a PC, that's how people
> will see it. However, turning things around allows the back panel of the to be
> on the back of the Kart where we can see it. Plan to have some cables trailing
> out fluttering in the breeze as though they were ripped away from whatever they
> were connected to as the *evil* BSOD absconded with someone's PC. The CD-ROM
> wheels can have 'TuxKart 1.0.0 Backup: 27th July 2005" textured onto them like
> it was hand-written in magic marker.

[snip]

> 5) It opens up the possibilities for 'special' attacks and defences - like if you
>     try to rear-end BSOD, you get electrocuted by the sparks from the trailing
>     cables.  He could shoot CD-ROMs as weapons and get huge speedups from driving
>     over nVidia chips in the road on his own special levels. The players will
>     understand why this is immediately if the kart is a computer on wheels. If it's
>     a regular GoKart driven by what looks like a grey cube - it won't make *ANY*
>     sense at all.

For SuperTux GotM we moved away from the geek-theme (ie, evil BSOD's)
and made it a little more "realistic" (you know, walking iceballs and
iceblocks :). I don't think that would be a bad idea for TuxKart to go
thise route either. There seems to be quite a few linux-geek-theme
games out there and to anyone new to linux (or that just doesn't get
the "joke") it may look kind of dumb or not make sense.

I'm not saying that we *definitely* should get rid of the BSOD's
(after all, I think it fits a lot better into a racing game than into
a game like supertux), but I do think it's something we should think
about. Also, if we invent new characters (so we have 6-8), it gets
kind of repetitive when we have a bunch of boring geek stuff.

I do think that "geeky" characters like the suse lizard or beastie,
the BSD demon, would fit quite well into the game (for the same reason
that tux does: they're things that work well when taken completely out
of context).

Also, Gown should be renamed to Penny :P Ok.. maybe not. We ended up
doing this in SuperTux because we found it sounded much nicer. After a
vote it won by a landslide (I'm pretty sure all votes went towards it
:)

Anyway.. off to bed.

-- 
Ryan

Re: [TuxKart-devel] CVS commits via email.

[Ryan F. <rf...@gm...>]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 02:52:34 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote:
> 
> I think I've successfully enabled the option to send CVS commits
> to the 'tuxkart-cvs' mailing list.
> 
> It takes SourceForge a day or two to process a new mailing list,
> so you may not be able to subscribe to it until maybe Monday
> sometime.
> 
> I should warn you that I'm a 'commit early, commit often' kind of
> person - so there will be considerable traffic on that list when
> we get going.   Don't say I didn't warn you!

Don't worry, the supertux cvs list was quite busy during it's peak
times :) Also, commit early, commit often is the best way to go with
multiple dev's

-- 
Ryan

[TuxKart-devel] Thoughts on Kart Models.

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

(Cross-posted to HP Game of The Month - because I don't think everyone
is over here yet).

Someone posted a new BSOD-kart model to that forum...here were my
comments:

caleb256 wrote:

 > ok I have made a bsod needs to be textured (can't find his texture :/ )
 > http://berty.dyndns.org/~caleb/tuxkart/bosd.ac
 > http://berty.dyndns.org/~caleb/tuxkart/bosd.blend

As I said before, Karts are pretty much only seen from the rear end. It
is UTTERLY imperative that artists think about that as they work.

This kart looks *identical* (because it is) to Grumbel's 'tuxkart4' - but
with a different driver. I don't think that's going to work. The four (or
hopefully many more) Karts have to be distinctive from the rear so you can
tell who is who. My original kart models - although crude and almost identical
vehicles - had the virtue that they showed off the driver very well - and
since the drivers were all very different, it was extremely easy to see who
was who from behind. Grumbel's kart has Tux sitting much lower (more like
a real GoKart than a cartoon-style thing) - which is OK so long as the other
karts are *WAY* different so we can tell who's who.

This kart has a *tiny* BSOD figure - whom you quite literally cannot see at
all from behind.

Here is what I would build for a BSOD kart - I'd like to see a model of a
classic beige-box desk-side PC with CD-ROMs for wheels and the CD drive tray
opened up to make the seat-back. Take some liberties with real PC design by
putting the computer on it's side - it doesn't have to be a literally correct
portrayal - so long as it has recognisable elements of a PC, that's how people
will see it. However, turning things around allows the back panel of the to be
on the back of the Kart where we can see it. Plan to have some cables trailing
out fluttering in the breeze as though they were ripped away from whatever they
were connected to as the *evil* BSOD absconded with someone's PC. The CD-ROM
wheels can have 'TuxKart 1.0.0 Backup: 27th July 2005" textured onto them like
it was hand-written in magic marker.

This fits the bill for what we need:

1) It's DISTINCTIVE from the rear...you can quite easily tell who it is even
    when he's just a dozen pixels across out in the distance.

2) It's INTERESTING from the rear - fluttering cables, maybe with some animated
    sparks coming out of them. Perhaps some flashing LED's and a spinning power
    supply fan with little vortices coming out of it. Think: "Pointless eye-candy".

3) It's FUNNY/SILLY/CUTE - this is a fun game - not a serious/realistic game.
    Think of outrageous things to make Karts out of. A computer on wheels is just
    fine for this genre.

4) It fits the established CHARACTER of the 'person' driving it. BSOD is The Evil
    Blue-screen-of-death -- the antipathy and arch-enemy of Tux. Stealing someone's
    computer and turning it into a GoKart is exactly the kind of nasty thing we'd
    expect him to do...so that's what he has to be doing.

5) It opens up the possibilities for 'special' attacks and defences - like if you
    try to rear-end BSOD, you get electrocuted by the sparks from the trailing
    cables.  He could shoot CD-ROMs as weapons and get huge speedups from driving
    over nVidia chips in the road on his own special levels. The players will
    understand why this is immediately if the kart is a computer on wheels. If it's
    a regular GoKart driven by what looks like a grey cube - it won't make *ANY*
    sense at all.

(I'm sorry to come over as negative on these contributions - I'm really VERY
appreciative of everyone's efforts - they are all food for thought - but it's no
good just to say "Wow - really good" and then quietly dump the graphic later -
because that doesn't achieve ANYTHING.)

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] tuxgames

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Caleb Sawtell wrote:

> wow I did not know that I thought that the  Nintendo 64's did 3d rendering...

They do 3D render most things - but they couldn't get the performance they
needed with full-3D for the very detailed kart models - so they cheated!

> is there AC3D for linux?

Yep.  Actually, AC3D *started* on Linux and was ported to Windows later.

>>The version of Tuxkart in CVS supports 'mirrored' tracks which adds some
>>extra life to the existing levels.
> 
> I will go check it out tomorrow

You also need the PLIB that's in CVS because the collision-detection
routines have to be aware that the polygons are mirrored - or else
everything looks to be backfaced.   You can tell OpenGL to reverse
the direction that it uses for culling - but there was no such option
in PLIB until I added it a while back.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] tuxgames

[Caleb S. <gam...@gm...>]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 02:44:52 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Caleb Sawtell wrote:
> > tuxgames did a review of tuxkart and we will be able to take some of
> > there ideas to make tuxkart better the review can be found here :
> > http://www.linuxgames.com/?dataloc=/reviews/tuxkart/
> 
> Yeah - I can't disagree with most of what they said.  I thought
> the 'ding' they gave us for 'Installing' (5 out of 10) was a
> little harsh.
> 
> Most of the other complaints should get fixed with this GoTM effort.
> 
> Other comments about their review:
> 
> The sounds seem like 'stock' sounds - well, yes - that would be
> because they *are* stock sounds.  (Have you ever *tried* to record
> sounds of your own with a microphone or whatever?  It's just about
> impossible without a folie stage and professional equipment.)
> 
> As for the worry that parents might find it 'offensive' for younger
> players...sheesh!  Can I count this as an educational game?...Educational
> for parents that is?   There isn't a kid alive of an age who could
> play TuxKart who doesn't see fart and belch jokes on TV - or from
> friends or whatever.  Compared to the gore and violence in most games,
> I think a good healthy belch from a Penguin who *loves* his herring is OK.

heh yeah I did not even think that parents would find this 'offensive'
I mean com on they would find it cute or funny :D
> 
> Graphics are 'chunky' - yes - they were designed to run on a Voodoo-1
> and a 133MHz CPU!  That gives you only a thousand or so polygons to
> play with and still get reasonable frame rates.  Most of the karts
> are already up at several hundred polygons - so every polygon that
> could be shaved off - was.  This is certainly an area we can fix if
> we focus on graphics cards with hardware T&L - or even non-T&L hardware
> with a faster-than-133MHz CPU.
> 

lol yeah its very good for a p133 with a voodoo-1 :D

> It's interesting to dig out an old Nintendo 64 and look at MarioKart'64
> (which bears 'certain resemblances' to TuxKart!)...notably, the karts
> in MarioKart'64 were not rendered in true 3D.  They pre-rendered the
> karts from a number of positions - and draw them as flat, 2D billboards.
> The result is that the lighting on them never changes. They have to be
> very careful with camera angles. As the karts turn, they do so in
> distinct 'steps'.  Even so, the couple of levels which we did to look
> like MarioKart levels stand up reasonably well to comparison - even though
> an N64 is much faster than a Voodoo-1 card.
 
wow I did not know that I thought that the  Nintendo 64's did 3d rendering...

> 
> They are dead on with their complaints about game-play.  My AI is just
> pathetic - and interest from users died out before I got around to
> writing any 'series' competition modes.  I think a split-screen 2 player
> or 4 player mode would help a lot - but back then, we barely had the
> throughput to render one scene - let alone 2 or 4.

to true

> 
> The complaint about needing a track editor is a bit unfair.  Tuxkart
> doesn't need a special track editor - you can build tracks fairly easily
> in Blender or AC3D - in a sense, those *are* the track editors.

is there AC3D for linux?

> 
> The version of Tuxkart in CVS supports 'mirrored' tracks which adds some
> extra life to the existing levels.

I will go check it out tomorrow

> 
> Overall, a fair statement of the current state of the game...but hopefully
> that's all about to change.
>

yeah :D
 
> ---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
> HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
> HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
> Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
>             http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
> V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
> -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training.
> Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 -
> digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches,
> unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com
> _______________________________________________
> Tuxkart-devel mailing list
> Tux...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tuxkart-devel
>

[TuxKart-devel] CVS commits via email.

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

I think I've successfully enabled the option to send CVS commits
to the 'tuxkart-cvs' mailing list.

It takes SourceForge a day or two to process a new mailing list,
so you may not be able to subscribe to it until maybe Monday
sometime.

I should warn you that I'm a 'commit early, commit often' kind of
person - so there will be considerable traffic on that list when
we get going.   Don't say I didn't warn you!

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] tuxgames

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Caleb Sawtell wrote:
> tuxgames did a review of tuxkart and we will be able to take some of
> there ideas to make tuxkart better the review can be found here :
> http://www.linuxgames.com/?dataloc=/reviews/tuxkart/

Yeah - I can't disagree with most of what they said.  I thought
the 'ding' they gave us for 'Installing' (5 out of 10) was a
little harsh.

Most of the other complaints should get fixed with this GoTM effort.

Other comments about their review:

The sounds seem like 'stock' sounds - well, yes - that would be
because they *are* stock sounds.  (Have you ever *tried* to record
sounds of your own with a microphone or whatever?  It's just about
impossible without a folie stage and professional equipment.)

As for the worry that parents might find it 'offensive' for younger
players...sheesh!  Can I count this as an educational game?...Educational
for parents that is?   There isn't a kid alive of an age who could
play TuxKart who doesn't see fart and belch jokes on TV - or from
friends or whatever.  Compared to the gore and violence in most games,
I think a good healthy belch from a Penguin who *loves* his herring is OK.

Graphics are 'chunky' - yes - they were designed to run on a Voodoo-1
and a 133MHz CPU!  That gives you only a thousand or so polygons to
play with and still get reasonable frame rates.  Most of the karts
are already up at several hundred polygons - so every polygon that
could be shaved off - was.  This is certainly an area we can fix if
we focus on graphics cards with hardware T&L - or even non-T&L hardware
with a faster-than-133MHz CPU.

It's interesting to dig out an old Nintendo 64 and look at MarioKart'64
(which bears 'certain resemblances' to TuxKart!)...notably, the karts
in MarioKart'64 were not rendered in true 3D.  They pre-rendered the
karts from a number of positions - and draw them as flat, 2D billboards.
The result is that the lighting on them never changes. They have to be
very careful with camera angles. As the karts turn, they do so in
distinct 'steps'.  Even so, the couple of levels which we did to look
like MarioKart levels stand up reasonably well to comparison - even though
an N64 is much faster than a Voodoo-1 card.

They are dead on with their complaints about game-play.  My AI is just
pathetic - and interest from users died out before I got around to
writing any 'series' competition modes.  I think a split-screen 2 player
or 4 player mode would help a lot - but back then, we barely had the
throughput to render one scene - let alone 2 or 4.

The complaint about needing a track editor is a bit unfair.  Tuxkart
doesn't need a special track editor - you can build tracks fairly easily
in Blender or AC3D - in a sense, those *are* the track editors.

The version of Tuxkart in CVS supports 'mirrored' tracks which adds some
extra life to the existing levels.

Overall, a fair statement of the current state of the game...but hopefully
that's all about to change.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

[TuxKart-devel] tuxgames

[Caleb S. <gam...@gm...>]

tuxgames did a review of tuxkart and we will be able to take some of
there ideas to make tuxkart better the review can be found here :
http://www.linuxgames.com/?dataloc=/reviews/tuxkart/

Re: [TuxKart-devel] just out of interest

[Caleb S. <gam...@gm...>]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 01:24:49 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote:
> 
> Caleb Sawtell wrote:
> 
> > Cool so we can make tuxkart look realy cool :D
> 
> Yeah - we're going to need exhaust-smoke, smokin'tyres, sparks...
> all that good stuff.
>

heh yeah :D
 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
> HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
> HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
> Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
>             http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
> V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
> -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training.
> Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 -
> digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches,
> unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com
> _______________________________________________
> Tuxkart-devel mailing list
> Tux...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tuxkart-devel
>

Re: [TuxKart-devel] just out of interest

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Caleb Sawtell wrote:

> Cool so we can make tuxkart look realy cool :D

Yeah - we're going to need exhaust-smoke, smokin'tyres, sparks...
all that good stuff.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] hey caleb256 subscibed

[Caleb S. <gam...@gm...>]

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 23:07:05 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote:
> 
> Caleb Sawtell wrote:
> 
> >>Things have been pretty quiet on this list - but it looks like
> >>we are gonna get very busy very soon as GoTM'ers start arriving!
> >
> > 1 already here :D
> 
> Actually, I think at least three have subscribed so far.
> 
>
oh 
> 
> ---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
> HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
> HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
> Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
>             http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
> V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
> -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training.
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tuxkart-devel
>

Re: [TuxKart-devel] just out of interest

[Caleb S. <gam...@gm...>]

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 23:06:01 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Caleb Sawtell wrote:
> > can plib do particles it probably can but I am just asking
> 
> Yes.
> 
> PLIB is structured into a bunch of smaller libraries. SSG
> is the 3D scenegraph library - and there is a second library
> that can optionally be included called ssgAux that adds another
> layer of stuff onto the base library.
> 
> ssgAux has particles.

Cool so we can make tuxkart look realy cool :D
> 
> ---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
> HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
> HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
> Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
>             http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
> V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
> -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training.
> Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 -
> digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches,
> unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com
> _______________________________________________
> Tuxkart-devel mailing list
> Tux...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tuxkart-devel
>

Re: [TuxKart-devel] hey caleb256 subscibed

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Caleb Sawtell wrote:

>>Things have been pretty quiet on this list - but it looks like
>>we are gonna get very busy very soon as GoTM'ers start arriving!
> 
> 1 already here :D

Actually, I think at least three have subscribed so far.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] just out of interest

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Caleb Sawtell wrote:
> can plib do particles it probably can but I am just asking

Yes.

PLIB is structured into a bunch of smaller libraries. SSG
is the 3D scenegraph library - and there is a second library
that can optionally be included called ssgAux that adds another
layer of stuff onto the base library.

ssgAux has particles.

---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
            http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [TuxKart-devel] hey caleb256 subscibed

[Caleb S. <gam...@gm...>]

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:20:25 -0500, Steve Baker <sjb...@ai...> wrote:
> 
> Caleb Sawtell wrote:
> > I think this is the right list isnt it??
> 
> Well, I guess it depends on what you were expecting.  If
> you wanted TuxKart Developers - then this is the correct
> list.  If you wanted "Cat Herding for Fun and Profit" - then
> you are probably in the wrong place!  :-)
> 
LOL I came here form  GoTM on Linux game tome...
I will try and do some modeling and ideas for you.
> Things have been pretty quiet on this list - but it looks like
> we are gonna get very busy very soon as GoTM'ers start arriving!

1 already here :D

> 
> ---------------------------- Steve Baker -------------------------
> HomeEmail: <sjb...@ai...>    WorkEmail: <sj...@li...>
> HomePage : http://www.sjbaker.org
> Projects : http://plib.sf.net    http://tuxaqfh.sf.net
>             http://tuxkart.sf.net http://prettypoly.sf.net
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> GCS d-- s:+ a+ C++++$ UL+++$ P--- L++++$ E--- W+++ N o+ K? w--- !O M-
> V-- PS++ PE- Y-- PGP-- t+ 5 X R+++ tv b++ DI++ D G+ e++ h--(-) r+++ y++++
> -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training.
> Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 -
> digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches,
> unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com
> _______________________________________________
> Tuxkart-devel mailing list
> Tux...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tuxkart-devel
>