#1082 BugReportCernel07_World War II Classic

[Cernel]

In TripleA the default for naval bombard is currently set as the casualties being unable to return fire.
As a consequence, currently the V1 map has the default casualties from bombard not able to return fire.
Either change the default in the engine or change the property for the V1 map.
Of course, all maps using no properties, maybe because they are meant to work by V1 rules, currently are unable to return fire, as well (for example, the Games of Thrones map).
So, changing the default for the engine may damage playtested maps (but not those with the property specified in the XML), but not changing it may left them damaged (as I think it is the case for GoT).
Since that property does the opposite of what it says, I suggest not even having it optionally settable in the V1 map. I've asked around to some V1 veterans and it seems that noone really cares about having that option, anyway.

My suggestion is to change the default for the engine of "Naval Bombard Casualties Return Fire Restricted" from false to true (which means false, since it does the opposite of what it says) and remove that option from the XML of the V1 map (or changing it, as well, and making it not editable).

Cheers

p.s.: I assume you don't need proof about the fact that in V1 casualties from naval bombard are able to return fire (in V1, V3, V4 and V5, you are able to return fire; unable is V2 only; no bombard at all in V6).

p.p.s.: Best would be, of course, having a property doing what it says, not the opposite (if the current property would be inverted in what it does, V1 would be made fine, with no xml changes needed); but I do understand that changing all XML would be insane, although it would regard only the ones with the specific property set (most just go with the V2 or V3 Rules general property).

p.p.p.s.: Since, aside from being bugged, that is the most confusing to read property ever, what about making a new property called "Naval Bombard Casualties Removed" (default "false"; as per v1 rules) (I hate long wordy properties), instead of the current "Naval Bombard Casualties Return Fire Restricted", leaving the second one bugged as it is, for compatibility?

p.p.p.p.s.: It's amazing I've discovered this bug playing V1 one time and noone noticed till now (I guess); also, some V1 players don't see the bug, because they just play by engine, instead of knowing the rules (so, if this bug gets corrected, some people will be surprised).

p.p.p.p.p.s.: Definitively, the best thing would be to invert what "Naval Bombard Casualties Return Fire Restricted" does (both making it correct telling and solving the V1 map bug, as well as the same bug for all maps having default rules); inverting how the V2 and V3 general properties set it; then, check all XML having the "Naval Bombard Casualties Return Fire Restricted" property specified in them and change it the other way round (assuming the mapmaker set it on what it did, not on what it said); but this would be a damn big work.

p.p.p.p.p.p.s.: If you need assistance in checking XML or stuff, do tell.

[Chris Duncan]

I will change this on each xml that we find that needs it.
Unfortunately for backwards compatibility, and to avoid unintended side effects, I will not change the default behavior in the engine or rename the property.
Can you help me find all the maps that need changing, besides the ones in the Classic and Classic variations zips?

[Cernel]

It's sad being stuck having a wrong default (this would be the only 1 case in which the TripleA default is not v1 compliant; aside from the unlimited placement in original), especially since we may have all maps with the v2 general properties specified (plus, of course, all of them having the "Naval Bombard Casualties Return Fire Restricted" specified) not being influenced by the default change; but this is your decision.

If you are sure about not be wanting to change the default (while leaving the specific "Naval Bombard Casualties Return Fire Restricted" just as wrong as it is now), I think it would be better making a list of conditions, to have the xml change, and systematically applying it, instead of spuriously guessing what to change.

Assuming the default will be kept wrong, as it is now, this is my suggestion:

Adding:

<property name="Naval Bombard Casualties Return Fire Restricted" value="true" editable="false"></property>

To all maps, satisfying all of these conditions:

1) The "Naval Bombard Casualties Return Fire Restricted" property is absent, in the xml
2) The "WW2V2" property is absent OR set to "false"
3) The "WW2V3" property is absent OR set to "false"
4) There is at least 1 unit having the option name="canBombard" value="true" (it can also be an unit not actually used in game, or even commented out; only requirement is finding this option true somewhere at the right place in the xml)

If you agree with this, I think I can check all depot maps (maybe excluding the ones in development) and make a list of all of those requiring the addition of the above property.

I still think having the right default would be much better though (I mean changing the default from false to true, while keeping the property doing the opposite of what it says; like it does now (so, not influencing any maps with the property specified or the "WW2V2" set to true).

Also, I'm not sure about the point "4". For example, as it is now, if 270BC would have ships able to bombard, they would bombard the wrong way (since 270BC is supposed being v1 rules). So, should we add the property also to maps like 270BC, that have no bombard, or better not to bother with those (I guess better not to; that's why I added the point 4 to the list)?

Still, this can bug off custom maps that are meant to have the v2 bombard, while the remaining rules are v1, because the mapmaker wanted that, and didn't specify it, because he tested that all was working as he wanted to, already.

What do you think?

Tell me if you want me to proceed making a depot list based on the above conditions; or some others.