tiny-cobol-users

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] PROGRAM ID.

[John R. C. <jo...@we...>]

On Monday 14 August 2006 08:22, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> Not a real problem, but a question out of curiosity.
>
> I just tried to compile a program I already had and it flagged all
> the "-" in the PROGRAM ID as errors.  I could not find anywhere in
> any of my COBOL books where this is not allowed.  As a matter of
> fact, I have a Hardcover book called the ANSI COBOL Programmer
> Companion (or somethign close to that) that specifically said that
> "-" is a legal character in the PROGRAM ID.
>
> Comments anyone?  Did the standard change?  This program compiles
> just fine with the compiler under OpenVMS.
>
> bill

The PROGRAM-ID entry is also the name by which the program is
known if it is in fact a called subprogram. This might have some
bearing, I don't know. 

-- 
John Culleton
Able Indexing and Typesetting
Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost.
Satisfaction guaranteed. 
http://wexfordpress.com

[Tiny-cobol-users] PROGRAM ID.

[Bill G. <bi...@cs...>]

Not a real problem, but a question out of curiosity.

I just tried to compile a program I already had and it flagged all
the "-" in the PROGRAM ID as errors.  I could not find anywhere in
any of my COBOL books where this is not allowed.  As a matter of
fact, I have a Hardcover book called the ANSI COBOL Programmer
Companion (or somethign close to that) that specifically said that
"-" is a legal character in the PROGRAM ID.

Comments anyone?  Did the standard change?  This program compiles
just fine with the compiler under OpenVMS.

bill

--=20
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolve=
s
bi...@cs...     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] screen section

[David E. <de...@ar...>]

donald tees wrote:

 > I have installed Tinycobol on a Mandrake Linux system,
 > and it appears to  be working, with the exception of the
 > screen section.
 > Perhaps I am missing libraries, or a compilation/link option
 > ... I do not know.
 > The normal display verb works fine, and the screen section
 > compiles.  However, a display screen-name appears to have no
 > effect at all, and the accept screen-name falls through immediately
 > to the stop run below it.
 > Perhaps someone can clue me in, or give me a hint where to look.

The TC source code contains some sample SCREEN programs in the
'test.code' directory.
With minor modifications to the make files these should compile
and run.

However the TC SCREEN SECTION is dependent on nCurses, which made the
TC RTL a real pain to maintain as I could not get any consistency
between nCurses versions and/or terminals.
Fix one problem in one place and another would usually appear. Or
change the terminal, say from linux to vt220, and the colors would
change or the blink option would no longer work.

If the source code examples fail to run, the try using a different
terminal program and/or TERM variable (export TERM=linux).

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] screen section

[John R. C. <jo...@we...>]

On Tuesday 08 August 2006 19:41, donald tees wrote:
> I have installed Tinycobol on a Mandrake Linux system, and it appears to
> be working, with the exception of the screen section.
> Perhaps I am missing libraries, or a compilation/link option ... I do
> not know. The normal display verb works fine, and the screen section
> compiles.  However, a display screen-name appears to have no effect at
> all, and the accept screen-name falls through immediately to the stop
> run below it.  Perhaps someone can clue me in, or give me a hint where
> to look.
>
> Donald
>

As you know T-C is no longer being maintained. Please send an
example program. I will try it on my Slack system and see if it
functions correctly. As I recall T-C depends on ncurses. Do you
have that installed?

I prefer T-C over Open-COBOL precisely because it has caught up
with Ryan-MacFarland COBOL I used 20 years ago in this very area
of controlling the display. 
-- 
John Culleton
Able Indexing and Typesetting
Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost.
Satisfaction guaranteed. 
http://wexfordpress.com

[Tiny-cobol-users] screen section

[donald t. <don...@sy...>]

I have installed Tinycobol on a Mandrake Linux system, and it appears to
be working, with the exception of the screen section.
Perhaps I am missing libraries, or a compilation/link option ... I do
not know. The normal display verb works fine, and the screen section
compiles.  However, a display screen-name appears to have no effect at
all, and the accept screen-name falls through immediately to the stop
run below it.  Perhaps someone can clue me in, or give me a hint where
to look.

Donald

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] HELP!

[lcf <lc...@lu...>]

El Mi=E9 12 Jul 2006 11:28, Eddy Alfaro escribi=F3:
> > Hello everyone
> > Today i've install tinycobol, and do my first program "Hello world", but
> > when i execute it, the execution fails and this is the error message
> >
> > ./new:error while coding shared libraries: libhtcobol.so.0: cannot open
> > shared object file: no such file or directory
> >
> > This library is in my directory  usr/local/lib

 	You must define/export your LD_LIBRARY_PATH variable...

	$ export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=3D"/usr/local/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH"

	Saludos...

> > This library exist in my system
> >
> >
> > Some one can help me?, how i can fix it?
> >
> > Thnks a lot
> >
> > Eddy Alfaro
> > Analista IT
> > Sistemas Pisopak Peru S.A.C
> > Telf:  2217123 - Anexo 235

=2D-

Luis

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] HELP!

[Carlucio L. <car...@te...>]

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:28:51 -0500
"Eddy Alfaro" <ea...@pi...> wrote:

> 
> > Hello everyone
> > Today i've install tinycobol, and do my first program "Hello world", but
> > when i execute it, the execution fails and this is the error message
> > 
> > ./new:error while coding shared libraries: libhtcobol.so.0: cannot open
> > shared object file: no such file or directory
> > 
> > This library is in my directory  usr/local/lib 
> > 
> > This library exist in my system

login you root
#cd ../devolpment
# cd lib
#make install-shared

bye

-- 
Carlucio Lopes- Goiania-Goias-Brasil msn:car...@ho...
Entenda Pirataria => http://www.carlinux.v10.com.br
Compilador Cobol Free http://tinycobol.org em Portugues
Porque Cobol? ==> http://www.clubecobol.com.br/cc_porque_cobol_02.asp
Projeto Debian Brasil http://cdd.debian-br.org
Tinycobol/Debian Gnu-Linux/Postgresql/Tcl-Tk

[Tiny-cobol-users] HELP!

[Eddy A. <ea...@pi...>]

> Hello everyone
> Today i've install tinycobol, and do my first program "Hello world", but
> when i execute it, the execution fails and this is the error message
> 
> ./new:error while coding shared libraries: libhtcobol.so.0: cannot open
> shared object file: no such file or directory
> 
> This library is in my directory  usr/local/lib 
> 
> This library exist in my system
> 
> 
> Some one can help me?, how i can fix it?
> 
> Thnks a lot
> 
> Eddy Alfaro
> Analista IT
> Sistemas Pisopak Peru S.A.C
> Telf:  2217123 - Anexo 235
> 

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] SCREEN SECTION examples. (cross posted)

[John R. C. <jo...@we...>]

On Sunday 02 July 2006 07:27, David Essex wrote:
> John R. Culleton wrote:
>   > Does anyone know any worked examples or tutorials for the
>   > SCREEN SECTION and associated DISPLAY/ACCEPT statements?
>   > I have already downloaded the pages from the M*crof*cus
>   > manual and am studying them.
>   > I have looked at the SCREEN0 example.
>
> The SCREEN SECTION was not part of the COBOL standard until the 2002
> draft. Consequently there are many vendor variations around.
>
> The objective of TC was to achieve COBOL 85 standard compatibility, so
> the 2002 draft was not really considered.
>
> TC does support 'DISPLAY/ACCEPT SCREEN-N' and 'DISPLAY/ACCEPT at LINE X
> POSITION Y' statements.
> These features are not well documented, other than the examples found in
> 'test.code/t23' and  'test.code/t26' directories of the source code
> distribution.
>
Thanks. I will look at those examples. 

-- 
John Culleton
Books with answers to marketing and publishing questions:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

Book coaches, consultants and packagers:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] SCREEN SECTION examples. (cross posted)

[David E. <de...@ar...>]

John R. Culleton wrote:

  > Does anyone know any worked examples or tutorials for the
  > SCREEN SECTION and associated DISPLAY/ACCEPT statements?
  > I have already downloaded the pages from the M*crof*cus
  > manual and am studying them.
  > I have looked at the SCREEN0 example.

The SCREEN SECTION was not part of the COBOL standard until the 2002
draft. Consequently there are many vendor variations around.

The objective of TC was to achieve COBOL 85 standard compatibility, so
the 2002 draft was not really considered.

TC does support 'DISPLAY/ACCEPT SCREEN-N' and 'DISPLAY/ACCEPT at LINE X
POSITION Y' statements.
These features are not well documented, other than the examples found in
'test.code/t23' and  'test.code/t26' directories of the source code
distribution.


Hope this helps.


David Essex

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] Distributing COBOL executables

[David E. <de...@ar...>]

John R. Culleton wrote:

 > ...
 > I am considering creating Cobol applications and distributing
 > them to MSWindows users. At a minimum what do I have to
 > distribute with the executable in order to make it work? Can the
 > whole application be a one directory thing?
 >
 > I am assuming users want a simple download and run type
 > operation.
 >
 > Has anyone done this already with TC?

You should be able to create a stand alone executable using MinGW,
assuming the following.

GCC will link with shared libraries (DLLs) if they are available,
if not it will use static libraries and add what ever is needed to the
executable.

So if you create the executable using the TC run-time, PDcurses and BDB
static libraries, then a stand alone executable will be created.
Otherwise the relavent DLLs will need to be distributed with the executable.

Note that there are two basic types of Win32 executables. A console
application which will run in a DOS/CMD window, and a GUI application.

The GCC default is a console application. A GUI application can be
created by using the '-mwindows' GCC option in the link step.

A sample Win32 GUI application using TC can be found in the
'test.code/tgui02' directory.

Also note that since a native GUI application does not open a DOS/CMD
window, any DISPLAY/ACCEPT command will not be seen by the end user.

Once the executable is created, you can distribute it as a zip file, or
use a open source Win32 setup program such as INNO setup.

Hope this helps.


David Essex

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] SCREEN SECTION examples. (cross posted)

[Merlin M. <mmo...@gm...>]

On 7/1/06, John R. Culleton <jo...@we...> wrote:
> Does anyone know any worked examples or tutorials for the SCREEN
> SECTION and associated DISPLAY/ACCEPT statements? I have already
> downloaded the pages from the Mirofocus manual and am studying
> them. I have looked at the SCREEN0 example.

I worked quite a bit with AcuCobol screen sections both text and
graphics..  Quite useful and behind their cobol 'RAD' technology but
with their own problems.  mostly useful for cheap and easy mouse
support.

merlin

[Tiny-cobol-users] SCREEN SECTION examples. (cross posted)

[John R. C. <jo...@we...>]

Does anyone know any worked examples or tutorials for the SCREEN
SECTION and associated DISPLAY/ACCEPT statements? I have already
downloaded the pages from the Mirofocus manual and am studying
them. I have looked at the SCREEN0 example. 


-- 
John Culleton
Books with answers to marketing and publishing questions:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

Book coaches, consultants and packagers:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf

[Tiny-cobol-users] Distributing COBOL executables.

[John R. C. <jo...@we...>]

I asked a similar question about Open Cobol:

I am considering creating Cobol applications and distributing
them to MSWindows users. At a minimum what do I have to
distribute with the executable in order to make it work? Can the
whole application be a one directory thing? 

I am assuming users want a simple download and run type
operation. 

Has anyone done this already with TC?
-- 
John Culleton
Books with answers to marketing and publishing questions:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

Book coaches, consultants and packagers:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] MySQL and TinyCOBOL

[mgw <mwi...@fr...>]

I guess that a way to use MySQL Directly with TinyCOBOL would be to modify
/test.code/tdb03/tdb03a.c to use MySQL C APIs
(http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/c-api-functions.html) instead of
libpq (postgresql)
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/MySQL--and-TinyCOBOL-t1660512.html#a4871378
Sent from the tiny-cobol-users forum at Nabble.com.

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] undefined symbol: tcob_init

[Carlucio L. <car...@te...>]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:58:44 -0300 (ART)
Juliano Dorneles dos Santos <jul...@ya...> wrote:

> 
> When I try to run my program, I have this error:
> ./impger: symbol lookup error: ./impger: undefined symbol: tcob_init

my /etc/profile add:

PATH=/usr/local/pgsql/bin:/usr/local/pgsql/lib:$PATH
export PATH PS1 
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib
export TCOB_LD_LIBRARY_PATH=.

> 
> I set this variables:
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/usr/lib" 
>  TCOB_LD_LIBRARY_PATH="./" 
>  TCOB_DIR="/usr/share/htcobol/"


ps:use the groups  co...@ya...

-- 
Carlucio Lopes- Cobolito 62-8415-8939 62-526-8006 msn:car...@ho...
Goiania-Goias-Brazil
Projeto Debian Brasil http://cdd.debian-br.org
Tinycobol/Debian Gnu-Linux/Postgresql/Tcl-Tk

[Tiny-cobol-users] undefined symbol: tcob_init

[Juliano D. d. S. <jul...@ya...>]

Hi friends. This is my first post, I try to find this error trought Google and can't find an answer so I'm here ...

I already install tinycobol under Ubuntu (Debian) wiht all this dependencies plus the libpq3 libraries.

When I try to run my program, I have this error:
./impger: symbol lookup error: ./impger: undefined symbol: tcob_init

(impger is the name of the program).

I set this variables:
LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/usr/lib" 
 TCOB_LD_LIBRARY_PATH="./" 
 TCOB_DIR="/usr/share/htcobol/"

There is something wrong or missing ?

(sorry for my poor english :) )


[ ]'s
Juliano Dorneles

 __________________________________________________
Fale com seus amigos  de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger 
http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/ 

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] tinycobol binary to C

[John R. C. <jo...@we...>]

On Sunday 21 May 2006 21:18, Rod Schell wrote:
> Is there a program that can take the tinycobol binary
> program and convert it to the C language?
>
> Rodney
You can download the source and work from that. You may need such
tools as Lexx and Yacc however. What is your platform?

John Culleton
Books with answers to marketing and publishing questions:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf

Book coaches, consultants and packagers:
http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf

[Tiny-cobol-users] tinycobol binary to C

[Rod S. <rod...@ya...>]

Is there a program that can take the tinycobol binary
program and convert it to the C language?

Rodney

__________________________________________________
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[Tiny-cobol-users] MySQL and TinyCOBOL

[Rod S. <rod...@ya...>]

Also I was able to get tinycobol to read MYSQL with a
command line call (both single records and multiple
records) but I am looking for a way to get directly to
MySQL.

       READ-ACCOUNTS-RECORD.
           INITIALIZE WS-SYSTEM.
           STRING 'mysql -ppassword database -e '
                  '"select '
                  'username, '
                  'useremail, '
                  'userdata '
                  'from theusertable" > /rodfile'
              delimited by size
            INTO WS-SYSTEM
           END-STRING.
           CALL "system" using WS-SYSTEM.

The "insert into" will also work to put a delimited
file into MySQL.

Rodney


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[Tiny-cobol-users] using POST with tinycobol CGI

[Rod S. <rod...@ya...>]

I am looking for a way to use POST vs GET for
tinycobol cgi programs.  I was able to get the
following info...

ACCEPT FORM-DATA1 FROM ENVIRONMENT-VARIABLE
"CONTENT_TYPE".
ACCEPT FORM-DATA2 FROM ENVIRONMENT-VARIABLE
"CONTENT_LENGTH".
ACCEPT FORM-DATA3 FROM ENVIRONMENT-VARIABLE
"HTTP_COOKIE".
ACCEPT FORM-DATA4 FROM ENVIRONMENT-VARIABLE
"REQUEST_METHOD".
ACCEPT FORM-DATA5 FROM ENVIRONMENT-VARIABLE
"QUERY_STRING".

but I was not able to get the actual stdio data.

Rodney


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[Tiny-cobol-users] Tiny Cobol compile problems

[John R. C. <jo...@we...>]

Returning to Tiny Cobol after an absence I tried a test program
called screen2.cbl. The compile hangs. Using the verbose option I
get the following:
 found copybook name 'PROMPTI.cpy'
found copybook name 'PROMPTP.cpy'

I ran the compile with 
htcobool -v -F screen2.cbl

Then I tried a recompile of the 63 source and ran the test suite.
I got the following failures:
-------------------------------
C004:  FAIL Identification Division Test 1
 C004:  FAIL Permit multi-line remarks
 SL02:  FAIL Recognize full SELECT (SEQUENTIAL)
 SL04:  FAIL Recognize full SELECT (RELATIVE)
 SL06:  FAIL Recognize full SELECT (RANDOM)
 SL08:  FAIL Recognize full SELECT (INDEXED)
 CPI1:  FAIL Recognize INITIALIZE verb full format
    COMPILER ONLY TESTS: FAILED
  Sort fixed file US OP                                              : FAILED
  Sort fixed file US GI                                              : FAILED
----------------------------

Are these the expected results from the test suite?


Is development of Tiny Cobol continuing? I like it better then
Open Source Cobol because of the SCREEN facility.

-- 
John Culleton

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] Fixed a bit but there's another question

[John R. C. <jo...@we...>]

On Sunday 02 April 2006 11:24, Marion C. Magee wrote:
> Try putting '100-MAIN. ' right below the line 'PROCEDURE DIVISION'.
> Then remove the '.' at the end of the DISPLAY line
>
> **Program Listing**
>
> IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
> PROGRAM-ID. HELLO.
> ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
> DATA DIVISION.
> PROCEDURE DIVISION.
> 100-MAIN.
>     DISPLAY "HELLO WORLD"
>     STOP RUN.
>
> **End Listing**
>
> Marion C. Magee
> Student/ECU
> ma...@cs...
> 580-421-9681
>
> Fred Mobach wrote:
> > On Friday 31 March 2006 06:50, Dilsia A. Martinez wrote:
> >> Dear TinyCOBOL Users:
> >>
> >>   I've rewritten the program hello world but now it
> >> gives me the following error:
> >>
> >> C:\TinyCOBOL>htcobol hello.cob
> >> hello.cob:     6: error: syntax error on or before '.'
> >> hello.cob      6: error: unknown or wrong statement,
> >> on or before '.'
> >>
> >>
> >> My program is written as follows:
> >>
> >> IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
> >> PROGRAM-ID. HELLO.
> >> DATA DIVISION.
> >> PROCEDURE DIVISION.
> >> DISPLAY   'HELLO WORLD'.
> >> STOP RUN.
> >
> > I don't know if it is nowadays still important but in the old days the
> > COBOL syntax requested the proper usage of margins. In case it is still
> > important you might prefix the lines with DISPLAY and STOP with four
> > space characters.
>

I agree with the need for at leat one paragraph header in the
PROCEDURE DIVISION. I don't agree with removing the period. It
should work either way.

I agree with the need for more indentation for non-header lines.
The rules on the modern format are a bit confusing to me so I
always use the old format (sometimes with line numbers!) I
start headers, level  01, and level 77 in column 8 and everything
else in column 12 or more. Your program with additional space works
 with Tiny Cobol and Open Cobol on my Slackware Linux system:

       IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
       PROGRAM-ID. HELLO.
       DATA DIVISION.
       PROCEDURE DIVISION.
       DISPLAY   'HELLO WORLD'.
       STOP RUN.

Now it really shouldn't. The version below is more
traditional and hence safer:

       IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
       PROGRAM-ID. HELLO.
       ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
       DATA DIVISION.
       PROCEDURE DIVISION.
       MAIN-ROUTINE.
           DISPLAY   'HELLO WORLD'.
           STOP RUN.

To avoid stupid mistakes I always start off with a copy of my
"template.cbl" program and then add code to it:

000010 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
000020 PROGRAM-ID. TEMPLATE.
000030 AUTHOR. JOHN CULLETON.
000040 INSTALLATION. WEXFORDPRESS
000045            Eldersburg MD.
000050*REMARKS.
000060*    THIS IS A TEMPLATE FOR OPEN COBOL AND HTCOBOL.
000070 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
000080
000090 CONFIGURATION SECTION.
000100 SOURCE-COMPUTER.
000110      Linux.
000120 OBJECT-COMPUTER.
000230      Linux.
000140
000150 INPUT-OUTPUT SECTION.
000160 FILE-CONTROL.
000170     SELECT PRINTFILE ASSIGN TO PRINTER.
000180 DATA DIVISION.
000190
000200 FILE SECTION.
000210
000220 WORKING-STORAGE SECTION.
000230
000240 PROCEDURE DIVISION.
000250 001-MAIN-PROCEDURE.
000260     DISPLAY "TEMPLATE".
000270          STOP RUN.




-- 
John Culleton
COBOL since 1968.

Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] Fixed a bit but there's another question

[Marion C. M. <ma...@cs...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Try putting '100-MAIN. ' right below the line 'PROCEDURE DIVISION'.
Then remove the '.' at the end of the DISPLAY line

**Program Listing**

IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
PROGRAM-ID. HELLO.
ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
DATA DIVISION.
PROCEDURE DIVISION.
100-MAIN.
    DISPLAY "HELLO WORLD"
    STOP RUN.

**End Listing**

Marion C. Magee
Student/ECU
ma...@cs...
580-421-9681


Fred Mobach wrote:
> On Friday 31 March 2006 06:50, Dilsia A. Martinez wrote:
>> Dear TinyCOBOL Users:
>>
>>   I've rewritten the program hello world but now it
>> gives me the following error:
>>
>> C:\TinyCOBOL>htcobol hello.cob
>> hello.cob:     6: error: syntax error on or before '.'
>> hello.cob      6: error: unknown or wrong statement,
>> on or before '.'
>>
>>
>> My program is written as follows:
>>
>> IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
>> PROGRAM-ID. HELLO.
>> DATA DIVISION.
>> PROCEDURE DIVISION.
>> DISPLAY   'HELLO WORLD'.
>> STOP RUN.
> 
> I don't know if it is nowadays still important but in the old days the 
> COBOL syntax requested the proper usage of margins. In case it is still 
> important you might prefix the lines with DISPLAY and STOP with four 
> space characters.
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Re: [Tiny-cobol-users] Fixed a bit but there's another question

[Fred M. <fr...@mo...>]

On Friday 31 March 2006 06:50, Dilsia A. Martinez wrote:
> Dear TinyCOBOL Users:
>
>   I've rewritten the program hello world but now it
> gives me the following error:
>
> C:\TinyCOBOL>htcobol hello.cob
> hello.cob:     6: error: syntax error on or before '.'
> hello.cob      6: error: unknown or wrong statement,
> on or before '.'
>
>
> My program is written as follows:
>
> IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
> PROGRAM-ID. HELLO.
> DATA DIVISION.
> PROCEDURE DIVISION.
> DISPLAY   'HELLO WORLD'.
> STOP RUN.

I don't know if it is nowadays still important but in the old days the 
COBOL syntax requested the proper usage of margins. In case it is still 
important you might prefix the lines with DISPLAY and STOP with four 
space characters.
-- 
Fred Mobach - fr...@mo... - pos...@mo...
Systemhouse Mobach bv - The Netherlands - since 1976
website : http://fred.mobach.nl
Q: servos ad pilleum vocare ?
A: servos fenestrae ad pilleum rubrem vocare !