From: Giancarlo P. <gia...@ya...> - 2009-10-20 17:43:05
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Again on this subject. BTW I agree in ws being in trunk, as it seems that the road ahead is now definetely marked. Marc Laporte wrote: > On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Giancarlo Pinerolo <gia...@ya...> wrote: >> I've been thinking about this matter for quite a while in fact. >> > > Yes, I know and you did a lot of work on AulaWiki. Which is why I am > looking forward to swaying you in :-) > > >> The major doubts I have that cause me confusion are about categ permissions >> >> 1) a workspace is a category, with its categ permissions >> So the categ transition (something like pending/approval path) is going to be >> an extra categ, or substitute the workspace categ? >> This leads to Q2 >> 2) if the transition categ is a second categ, other than the ws, an object >> belongs to, does it zeroadd perms or what? > > > http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Category_Transition_Demonstration > http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Transition+Handler > http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace+Roadmap#Category_transitions > I found the time to install latest svn trunk and give it half an hour test with these profiles. What puzzled me was the fact that category transition was a paragraph in side the Workspace Roadmap page. I imagined that category transition could be deployed inside a workspace, or between two or more workspaces. You know, to avoid using individual object permissions on eg: a single wiki page with different perms than the category. So my question was, and still is: can a category transition profile be installed *inside* workspaces? This explains all my questions about resolution of multiple categ permissions, GUID on categories/objects etc.. And the need to have: categ->categ permsset->categ groups to make it transversal. Giancarlo > > >> In short: if an object can belong to multiple categories, each with its perm, >> how do these perms sum up? Is there a switch that says: zeroadd/add these peo >> this rms? >> > > If you are allowed to see one of the categories, you can see the > object. We had discussions about this and the conclusion was that: > > 1- This is normally what people want/need > 2- It's simpler to code. > 3- If people need an "and" relationship, they can just create a new > group (so there is an acceptable workaround for the less common > case). If WikiPageXYZ should only be seen by people that are both in > GroupA and GroupB, just make a GroupC with shortlist of people that > are in both groups. > > >> At first, reading the doc, it seems that eg: the 'Pending' category can be a >> transversal one, one that you can apply to any object in any workspace. That >> would be nice, but how can this be? >> Or, as I suppose, does every workspace that wants a 'Pending' state categ, >> have its own? >> > > > It sounds like you are trying to make a workflow? > > You create as many or as few categories as you need. And you would > define who is allowed to add to it. Transitions can be moving to the > new category OR adding to the category, but still keeping in the old > one. > > Please note: Not all object types have been adapted yet to the new > system. Wiki pages are done. Tracker items: Sylvie is one the case. > If people can help: > http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Deployment+of+Category+Jail > > >> I am not sure, but something similar is when an object belongs to more than >> one workspace categ, and we want 'Members' of both to have their perms on >> it, but only 'Admins' of one ws to be able to admin it. I mean the answer to >> these question may generate new ones... >> > > > So you give only Admin permissions to the ones you want. > > What issue do you see? > > > >> Also for me, apart from this, is to address the problem of group inclusion, >> because there are many cases when you may want to grant perms to a group, >> but you may not be aware of the other groups it includes, and don' want to, >> or should not have the right to, extend this to them. >> > > Well, don't do group inclusions if you don't want permissions to be inherited. > > >> Or maybe this is all very simple, and I've missed some major concepts. >> > > I can't be sure that we covered absolutely all the cases. But I know > it covers quite few. The way to find out how far/diverse we get is to > address real-World use cases and to learn/experiment with the system > and push its limits. > > Louis-Philippe is particularly gifted in finding simple solutions to > complex problems, and avoiding pitfalls and dead-ends. Here is an > example: The Cross-Lingual Wiki Engine: Enabling Collaboration Across > Language Barriers > http://wiki-translation.com/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=4 > > > One thing to note is that there is no category permission inheritance. > This would have added a lot of complexity. The plan is to compensate > for this with better tools for mass-management of permission (ex.: > copy perms to all children of this category, using profiles as > templates, etc.) > > > Best regards, > > M ;-) > >> Giancarlo >> >> >> >> Alle 14:51, martedì 13 ottobre 2009, Marc Laporte ha scritto: >>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 3:21 AM, Giancarlo Pinerolo <gia...@ya...> >> wrote: >>>> Alle 14:02, sabato 10 ottobre 2009, Marc Laporte ha scritto: >>>>> I think you underestimate both the profiles and workspace system >>>>> developed by Louis-Philippe. I hope you will take some time to >>>>> experiment and learn profiles. >>>> Yes Marc, Aldo. I may have overlooked a few things, but you can be sure >>>> that my curiosity on this subject is still high. I had no time to try an >>>> install, but went on in reading all the new ws code in svn meanwhile. >>>> What I miss is a more in-depth explaination of the workings of quite a >>>> few new things, especially categ related. I've bee looking for it but >>>> found mostly docu intended for the end user. >>> Please see: >>> http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Profile+Developer+Documentation >>> http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Data+Channels >>> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Deployment+of+Category+Jail >>> >>> The first ones to try: >>> http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Jailroot_Demonstration >>> http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Group_Transition_Demonstration >>> http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Category_Transition_Demonstration >>> http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Sample_for_Perms_Auditing >>> >>> These little profiles are great. Run on a fresh install, and you get a >>> small and focused demo of the feature. >>> >>> This is what we are going to build: >>> http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Learning_Center >>> http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Project_Management >>> >>>> I asked in the past for a dev Q&A forum or any other way of discussing >>>> about the new enhancements, from a developer's point of view, or have a >>>> contact with someone I can write to privately. A person/place/way I can >>>> feel free to pose questions without worrying if these are silly, wrong, >>>> or not interesting for the community. Eg.: for Aulawiki-workspaces I >>>> found a good sintony with Xavi with respect to this. >>> This is the right place to ask. >>> >>>> Anyway you must pardon my sometimes sarcastic hirony, I just try to be >>>> provocating to shake out some/any sort of reply, this can be >>>> counter-productive in fact :-) >>> Understood. >>> >>> Please take 5-10 hours to figure out the system. Then, ask questions. >>> The more you will discover, the more possibilities you will see. >>> >>> Thanks! > > > |