From: Sylvie G. <sgr...@gm...> - 2009-01-29 23:38:04
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I am one of the person (not the only one) who gave Louis Philppe hard time. Louis Philippe I apologize. I am very sorry. You do not deserve to be so upset. I will only explain the point that was conflictual for me in my own words. I let others explain the other point if they want. Sorry guys it was not on the devel list because we began in French. The controls management in the ui revamping. - in other words, the tabs, icons, dropdowns at the top and the bottom of a wiki page (and other page) .... The starting point was: http://ui.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Technical+Changes Now the template is like this http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/branches/experimental/ui-revamp/templates/tiki-pagecontrols-tab-header.tpl?revision=16356&view=markup And the phps that prepare the information are like http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/branches/experimental/ui-revamp/lib/TikiPageControls_Wiki.php?revision=16255 http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/branches/experimental/ui-revamp/lib/TikiPageControls.php?revision=16278 The advantage - thanks Louis Philippe - 1) The code is clean. 2) There is no double check of permission in the templates The problem from my point of view : if a designer wants to change the look(ex: transform the actual edit tab to the old edit icon) - either he has to change in the smarty 'php code' (not easy ) or he has to change the php code (more easy - but a mess with a multitiki) Are we ready to say to a user - it is more difficult to change the buttons now - but the code isless buggy? Will a user used to the edit icon be happy with a tab? One of the objective is to release this UI with 3.0. I think that this is a major flaw: if we want to do calendar release and functional release we will have fun. So Do we want this kind of evolution? My personal answer is yes Must this evolution in the current status be part of the release in March? My personal answer is no. 1) I think we have to find a way to give back to a user that does not know php the possibility to change the look. are admin panels that configure the buttons a good choice????? 2) this branch has not been very well tested. Some features disappeared. We know that. Are we ready to have a bugged trunk for a while as trunk is the only place people fix bugs. I can not blame Louis Philippe for that. 1) Nobody works on on experimental branches. 2) It is a huge work. Lph did a lot but there are a lot more to do. Who is ready to contribute? But to have customers unhappy.... I am sure that we can find a solution. We could think a little more about what the controls should be - We could work more often on the experimental branch - We can be less ambitious for a release.... I am very sorry Louis Philippe. I know you work hard and well. Big moves forward are not easy to manage. Sylvie On Thu, 2009-01-29 at 17:37 -0500, Nelson Ko wrote: > This comes as a surprise to me and I too really hope all this can be > resolved so Louis-Philippe stays. And I am here, available to help > mediate the situation, or help out in any other way if needed. Surely, > > - If some harsh words were exchanged in the heat of the moment, a > sincere apology will be accepted. > > - If it is a debate about software architecture, surely some kind of > well-discussed conclusion can be reached. > > - If it is about whether something will be in the next version, surely > we can objectively tell if it can be tested well enough in time. > > - If it is about the lack of preserving environment when changing > code, let's remember that we are stronger if we work towards this as a > team. On one hand, it may require slowing down for those members of > the team (who may be temporarily busy) so that they can help. On the > other hand, we should trust and support the person changing code to > address any issues caused within reasonable time. > > I am sure, from knowing the people in the community personally, that > absolutely no one wishes Louis-Philippe to leave, and if criticisms > were made they were not intended to hurt. > > I applaud Louis-Philippe's drive to improve things in the software, > especially things that push the envelope of the status-quo. However, > if the issue here (as I guess from LPH's email) is about balancing new > improvements with backward compatibility concerns, then it is a > resolvable problem. Most of the time, the correct solution is to > simply address backward compatibility directly. But *if really* that > is just not feasible, options include not upgrading and > maintaining/backporting to a legacy version, or postponing changes to > a later release so that there are not too many changes at one go. > Either way, some cool-headed and patient compromise is required. It > also requires effort that may seem "wasteful" but believe me in my 10+ > years of software experience, it is part of life :) > > nkoth > > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 1:25 PM, J Bradley <jm...@no...> wrote: > > > > +1 if not more on all that, Mike. > > > > I really hope this can be resolved so everyone stays (i'm kind of > > optimistic like that) but if anyone has to leave it really should be > > those that contribute less than Louis-Philippe, which would be just > > about all of us, surely! > > > > Or, if there are significant problems with it (the code) which we've > > missed somehow, then can't we discuss and improve? > > > > If it is farewell LP - then thanks and good luck! > > But i hope not... > > > > jonny B > > > > > > > > On 29 Jan 2009, at 16:44, Kerr, Michael E (Mike) wrote: > > > >> Wow, this is a sad day. Despite any disagreements we may have had in > >> the past, they were pretty minor in retrospect, definitely the > >> Montreal > >> meeting in November helped put things in perspective. > >> > >> I, personally, believe your continued contribution to the stability of > >> the project generally outweighs by far any negativity directed your > >> way > >> by individuals who really should be making their issues known to the > >> community. Healthy debate is one thing, but piling on, in private, to > >> the point where a major contributor wants to leave is pretty weak. > >> Especially when it is done in private and impacts the community as a > >> whole...that's just selfish and not how I understand our community to > >> operate. I've had no inkling that there were these sorts of issues, > >> but > >> I think it is somewhat fair to say that the silent majority supports > >> the > >> work you have done, and without knowledge to the contrary, would > >> rather > >> see these dissenting (anonymous) individuals who are causing your > >> departure to leave instead of you. > >> > >> There are always two sides, and I encourage those responsible to > >> explain > >> their part in this. I consider this a pretty big blow to the project. > >> > >> Mike. > >> > >> ______________________________ > >> Mike Kerr > >> Sr. Internet Network Engineer > >> (703) 886-2251 > >> mik...@ve... > >> "I didn't come here to be ordinary." > >> > >> verizonbusiness > >> global capability. personal accountability. > >> http://www.verizonbusiness.com > >> This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the > >> addressee unless otherwise indicated. > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Louis-Philippe Huberdeau [mailto:lphuberdeau@drone- > >>> alliance.org] > >>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:24 AM > >>> To: Tikiwiki developers > >>> Subject: [Tikiwiki-devel] Disengagement letter > >>> > >>> Hello everyone, > >>> > >>> Well, it has been a long time. I got involved a lot with the project, > >> had > >>> a > >>> lot of ideas for the future, got to realize a few. However, it has to > >> come > >>> to > >>> an end. Recent changes in the community make my life impossible and > >> makes > >>> the > >>> whole adventure unenjoyable. It got to the point I did not feel like > >>> getting > >>> up in the morning. Things have to change. > >>> > >>> Those following svn commits know I have been working on a lot of > >> different > >>> things in the last few months. Some changes shake the statu-quo. I > >> believe > >>> they were for the best interests of the project and long term > >>> sustainability, > >>> however not all parties agree. I feel the rules of this community are > >>> being > >>> perverted to a point where any attempt to improve the situation > >> becomes > >>> unacceptable. I cannot participate in the project if there are no > >> hopes of > >>> making a difference. > >>> > >>> Most criticism happens off this list, which makes the situation even > >>> worst. I > >>> always had the project's best interests at heart, but I don't feel > >> it's > >>> the > >>> same for everyone. All my efforts have been slowed down by a group of > >>> individuals for at least two months, providing very little > >> constructive > >>> criticism and argumenting without facts, without making the effort to > >>> verify > >>> their claims. I wanted to spend my time, even free time, coding and > >> making > >>> the > >>> project better. It seems neither is possible anymore. > >>> > >>> I have been involved for a long time, and I would resign completely > >>> if > >> it > >>> was > >>> not for the the fact that too much of my income structure is based on > >> this > >>> project. Complete departure will have to wait. From this day, I will > >> not > >>> perform any more personal contributions, follow mailing lists, sit in > >> IRC > >>> or > >>> perform any voluntary work for the project. My contributions will be > >>> minimal > >>> and leave existing things as immobile as possible to please the cult. > >>> > >>> I feel sad about this, and I feel sad for all the great people around > >> this > >>> project. I've had a great time with most of you. Good luck. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> LP > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> -- > >>> ---- > >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: > >>> SourcForge Community > >>> SourceForge wants to tell your story. > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > >>> Tik...@li... > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: > >> SourcForge Community > >> SourceForge wants to tell your story. > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > >> Tik...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > > SourcForge Community > > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > > _______________________________________________ > > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > > Tik...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This SF.net email is sponsored by: > SourcForge Community > SourceForge wants to tell your story. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword > _______________________________________________ > Tikiwiki-devel mailing list > Tik...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel |