LilyIssues / Issues / #3208 Wrong MultiMeasureRest glyph

Google Importer - 2013-02-27

Originally posted by: PhilEHol...@googlemail.com

OK - let's just be clear about what the bug is. Lilypond does the right thing (TM) for single Whole Measure Rests - breve rests and longa rests are correct. It does the wrong thing for multimeasure rests, where what it uses for 2 breve bar rests (staff system 2 above) it uses the symbol for a 4 bar church rest. That's wrong, agreed, and needs fixing.

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Description has changed:

Diff:

--- old
+++ new
@@ -11,26 +11,29 @@
 With measures longer than two whole notes LilyPond chooses different
 glyphs for MultiMeasureRest.

+~~~~
+:::TeX
 \version "2.17.12"

-\new Staff \{
-&nbsp; \compressFullBarRests
+\new Staff {
+  \compressFullBarRests

-&nbsp; \time 7/4
-&nbsp; [r1]\*7/4
-&nbsp; [r1]\*7/4\*2
+  \time 7/4
+  R1*7/4
+  R1*7/4*2

-&nbsp; \break
+  \break

-&nbsp; \time 9/4
-&nbsp; [r1]\*9/4
-&nbsp; [r1]\*9/4\*2
-&nbsp; \break
+  \time 9/4
+  R1*9/4
+  R1*9/4*2
+  \break

-&nbsp; \time 18/4
-&nbsp; [r1]\*18/4
-&nbsp; [r1]\*18/4\*2
-\}
+  \time 18/4
+  R1*18/4
+  R1*18/4*2
+}
+~~~~

 Discussion on the user-list:
 [http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Glyph-for-longer-MultiMeasureRest-td141438.html](http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Glyph-for-longer-MultiMeasureRest-td141438.html)

Needs: -->
Patch: -->

Trevor Daniels - 2015-09-25

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Malte Meyn - 2017-12-26

issue 3208: MMRs for > 1 m. only count m.

MMRs with measure-count == 1 (single whole measure rests) don’t change
their behaviour (i. e. they respect measure length when choosing the
displayed rest symbol).

MMRs with measure-count > 1 now only respect measure-count and don’t
scale that by closest_duration_log which depends on measure-length.

What do Gould et al. say about the whole issue? I don’t find the discussion on the tracker very clear

http://codereview.appspot.com/333340043

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Malte Meyn - 2017-12-26

assigned_to: Malte Meyn

Needs: -->

Type: -->
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Malte Meyn - 2017-12-26

use only whole rests and longer

http://codereview.appspot.com/333340043

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Malte Meyn - 2017-12-26

This is the current situation (2.19.80) vs. the suggested patch, both use

\compressFullBarRests \override MultiMeasureRest.expand-limit = 15 \override MultiMeasureRest.usable-duration-logs = #'(2 1 0 -1 -2)

Last edit: Malte Meyn 2017-12-26

issue3208.png

issue3208_patch.png
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- Benkő Pál - 2018-01-01
  
  I like the change to the 1/4 case, but the other cases, i.e. making a part of a multi-measure rest corresponding to a single measure look different than a single measure rest look crazy. did Werner cite Gould (or like) anywhere else (as I couldn't find such a reference in the user-list discussion above)?
  
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  - Werner LEMBERG - 2018-01-01
    
    Here's a proof for my point of view, taken from the Violin part of BWV 232, New Bach edition (Bärenreiter). The image clearly shows that a multi-measure rest's symbol represents the number of bars, while in single-measure bars the symbol gives the number of beats.
    
    The ambiguity between a two-bar eight-beat rest and a one-bar eight-beat rest gets resolved by putting number one or two over the rest.
    
    mmrest.png
    
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    - Benkő Pál - 2018-01-01
      
      this is a bit different; is there a case in this part with an odd number of measures in a multi-measure rest? My greatest concern is the current patch writing a single measure rest as a breve rest if it's bounded by barlines (and the violin part you cited does the same), but as a semibreve rest if it's the last bit of a multi-measure rest of odd measures (is there an example for this too?).
      
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      - Werner LEMBERG - 2018-01-01
        
        Alas, on IMSLP there's only the Violin 1 part from the NBA, and it doesn't contain a MM rest with an odd number of measures. Here's another example, this time from Saint-Saëns's Symphony No. 3 (percussion part), which uses a 3/1 measure.
        
        mm-organ-symphony.png
        
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        Benkő Pál - 2018-01-01
        
        (Alas 2: on IMSLP I could find an original violin part for Kyrie-Gloria, but not for Credo. rests in Kyrie II and Gratias follow Lilypond's default, but arguably those are not 4/2 bars but 2/2 ones.)
        and in the Saint-Saëns example a single measure rest is written as a whole, not as a breve; that's at least consistent, but sort of confusing as some measures earlier a single bar contained two whole rests and some other stuff.
        
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        Werner LEMBERG - 2018-01-01
        
        And finally, a sample with an odd number of measures for an MM rest using the 3/1 beat (Organ Symphony, last movement, horn 3).
        
        mm-organ-symphony2.png
        
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        Benkő Pál - 2018-01-01
        
        this example contains a single measure rest too, and it's again written as a whole rest; note also that number 1 is printed above.
        so it seems that a full measure rest is written as a whole rest regardless of measure length and rest length.
        
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        Werner LEMBERG - 2018-01-01
        
        ??? The scan of the Bach Violin part above does show full measure rests that have the shape of a breve rest. Admittedly, they are not isolated but used together with cue notes.
        
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        Benkő Pál - 2018-01-01
        
        I meant the Kyrie II and Gratias movements from the original violin part; there the shapes are longa, breve, whole, but the numbers above those rests is the number of wholes; barring in the movement otherwise is like 4/2 with short bar lines (two middle spaces) in the middle.
        yes, the NBA part has breve shapes for the single measure rests, unlike the Saint-Saëns examples.
        
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        Werner LEMBERG - 2018-01-10
        
        I had the opportunity to skip through all BWV 232 parts of Bärenreiter – it wasn't successful, since Bach seems to avoid an uneven number of full bars... Additionally, they re-typeset everything in 2006, with the well-known mediocre typesetting quality from that time...
        
        Nevertheless, I had also access to choir parts, definitely older and manually typeset, and attached you can find a page that shows MMRs for 4/2 beat with an odd number of measures.
        
        bach.pdf
        
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        Benkő Pál - 2018-01-10
        
        thanks, Werner; I'd call that "inconsistently modern practice" in that
        multi-measure rests are written so that one bar is represented by a
        semibreve rest, while a single measure rest is represented by a breve
        rest.
        the example is great as it can be compared to the original: Bach wrote
        an MMR of 21 2/2 bars, see page 2, line 4 of
        http://ks.petruccimusiclibrary.org/files/imglnks/usimg/0/05/IMSLP102259-PMLP04197-Bach_Bm_Mass_parts_278110185_bass.pdf
        (note also that Bach shifts full and half bar-lines at the break
        between lines 3 and 4)
        in the penultimate line of page 3 (Gratias) there's a breve rest with
        number 2: it's a single bar rest in modern terms.
        
        2018-01-10 10:31 GMT+01:00 Werner LEMBERG wlemb@users.sf.net:
        
        I had the opportunity to skip through all BWV 232 parts of Bärenreiter – it
        wasn't successful, since Bach seems to avoid an uneven number of full
        bars... Additionally, they re-typeset everything in 2006, with the
        well-known mediocre typesetting quality from that time...
        
        Nevertheless, I had also access to choir parts, definitely older and
        manually typeset, and attached you can find a page that shows MMRs for 4/2
        beat with an odd number of measures.
        
        [issues:#3208] Wrong MultiMeasureRest glyph
        
        Status: Started
        Created: Wed Feb 27, 2013 03:07 AM UTC by Anonymous
        Last Updated: Tue Jan 09, 2018 09:44 PM UTC
        Owner: Malte Meyn
        Attachments:
        
        mmr-02.png (11.9 kB; image/png)
        
        Originally created by: *anonymous
        
        Originally created by: colingh...@gmail.com
        
        Thomas Morley reported here:
        
        http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2013-02/msg00180.html
        
        as follows:
        
        With measures longer than two whole notes LilyPond chooses different
        glyphs for MultiMeasureRest.
        
        \version "2.17.12"
        
        \new Staff {
        \compressFullBarRests
        
        \time 7/4
        R17/4
        R17/4*2
        
        \break
        
        \time 9/4
        R19/4
        R19/4*2
        \break
        
        \time 18/4
        R118/4
        R118/4*2
        }
        
        Discussion on the user-list:
        http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Glyph-for-longer-MultiMeasureRest-td141438.html
        
        According to Gould LilyPond's default seems to be correct.
        Werner objects.
        
        At least there's need for discussion, I think.
        
        Attached an image showing "LilyPond's default" vs "Correct?"
        
        Regards,
        Harm
        
        Sent from sourceforge.net because you indicated interest in
        https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/3208/
        
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        Related
        
        Issues: ~~#3208~~
        
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Malte Meyn - 2017-12-26

add regtest

http://codereview.appspot.com/333340043

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Malte Meyn - 2017-12-26

small whitespace correction

http://codereview.appspot.com/333340043

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Anonymous - 2017-12-27

Needs: -->

Patch: new --> review

Type: --> Enhancement
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Anonymous - 2017-12-27

Passes make, make check and a ful make doc.

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Malte Meyn - 2017-12-28

Patch: review --> needs_work
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Malte Meyn - 2017-12-30

move round-up-to-longer-rest to calc_closest_duration_log and improve regtest

http://codereview.appspot.com/333340043

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Anonymous - 2017-12-31

Needs: -->

Patch: new --> review

Type: --> Enhancement
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Wrong MultiMeasureRest glyph

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