tcllib-devel — Discussion of development for tcllib

Re: [Tcllib-devel] Tcllib 1.11.1 Xmas Release Planning

[Larry W. V. <lv...@gm...>]

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:57 AM, Arjen Markus <arj...@wl...> wrote:
> Andreas
 Anybody else having things to add ?
>>Now is the time.
>>
>>
> Hi Andreas,
>
> yes, I have code by Michael Baudin I would like to add to the linear
> algebra package.
>
> As for Tklib: Dave Hanks and I have been working on an extension [...]
>

I notice on the CORE mailing list a discussion concerning getting
Tktags and perhaps another (not certain what) set of code into tklib
as well. Perhaps letting them

Re: [Tcllib-devel] Tcllib 1.11.1 Xmas Release Planning

[Arjen M. <arj...@wl...>]

Andreas Kupries wrote:

>As seen from the version number, I consider this aminor release, mainly to
>get Alejandro Paz's graph operations (his GSoc work for us) into a release.
>We got some other small stuff as well. Anybody else having things to add ?
>Now is the time.
>  
>
Hi Andreas,

yes, I have code by Michael Baudin I would like to add to the linear 
algebra package.

As for Tklib: Dave Hanks and I have been working on an extension useful 
for timecharts
(and Gantt charts) so that you can install scrollbars and scroll the 
contents of the chart.
This is almost finished (with the exception of an enhancement to the 
scaling of the items,
but that is of later concern).

>Current planning
>
>**	Do the main release work next week.
>
>**	Create a release candidate (RC) during the weekend after (Dec 6-7).
>
>**	Put the RC up next Monday (Dec 8) and let it up for a week.
>
>**	Convert the RC to release on Dec 15, pending major changes.
>
>This gives this and next week for the release work, and
>another week with the RC out for general testing.
>
>Time constraint:
>	I am leaving for Xmas vacation on Monday Dec 23.
>
>	The release date is one week before that to keep
>	these dates nicely apart.
>
>Is someone willing to step up and do a Tklib release as ell ?
>  
>
Personally, I won't be able to (time constraints), but I would dearly like
to see a new (minor) release of Tklib too.

Regards,

Arjen

[Tcllib-devel] Tcllib 1.11.1 Xmas Release Planning

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

As seen from the version number, I consider this aminor release, mainly to
get Alejandro Paz's graph operations (his GSoc work for us) into a release.
We got some other small stuff as well. Anybody else having things to add ?
Now is the time.

Current planning

**	Do the main release work next week.

**	Create a release candidate (RC) during the weekend after (Dec 6-7).

**	Put the RC up next Monday (Dec 8) and let it up for a week.

**	Convert the RC to release on Dec 15, pending major changes.

This gives this and next week for the release work, and
another week with the RC out for general testing.

Time constraint:
	I am leaving for Xmas vacation on Monday Dec 23.

	The release date is one week before that to keep
	these dates nicely apart.

Is someone willing to step up and do a Tklib release as ell ?

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122

Re: [Tcllib-devel] Manual writing

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

A quick note, the documentation on SF has been updated now, and now shows
all the new manpages, like YAML, etc.

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andreas Kupries [mailto:and...@ac...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:21 AM
> To: KATO Kanryu; tcl...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Tcllib-devel] Manual writing
>
>
>
> > Currently, it seems that there is no newest document for Tcllib modules.
> > http://tcllib.sourceforge.net/doc/index.html
> >
> > I am worry about generating documents of mine, [huddle.man, yaml.man].
> > Please let me know to need to repair man files, if they are not
> > correct about format.
>
> Kato, and others, the documentation on SourceForge is not regenerated
> automatically. And after the release of 1.11 I simply forgot to ping the
> person maintaining it. I have now done so, and asked him to regenerate it.
> It may still take some time as I do not know when he will have time for
> this.
>
> So, it is not that some issue with / error in the documentation which
> prevents the new stuff from being shown. I validated the doc syntax before
> the release and no problems were shown.
>
> --
> 	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
> 	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
> 	Tel: +1 778-786-1122
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move
> Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win
> great prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in
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> _______________________________________________
> Tcllib-devel mailing list
> Tcl...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tcllib-devel

Re: [Tcllib-devel] Manual writing

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

> Currently, it seems that there is no newest document for Tcllib modules.
> http://tcllib.sourceforge.net/doc/index.html
>
> I am worry about generating documents of mine, [huddle.man, yaml.man].
> Please let me know to need to repair man files, if they are not
> correct about format.

Kato, and others, the documentation on SourceForge is not regenerated
automatically. And after the release of 1.11 I simply forgot to ping the
person maintaining it. I have now done so, and asked him to regenerate it.
It may still take some time as I do not know when he will have time for
this.

So, it is not that some issue with / error in the documentation which
prevents the new stuff from being shown. I validated the doc syntax before
the release and no problems were shown.

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122

[Tcllib-devel] Manual writing

[KATO K. <k.k...@gm...>]

Currently, it seems that there is no newest document for Tcllib modules.
http://tcllib.sourceforge.net/doc/index.html

I am worry about generating documents of mine, [huddle.man, yaml.man].
Please let me know to need to repair man files, if they are not
correct about format.

Regards.

[Tcllib-devel] Release candidates for Tcllib 1.11 ...

[Andreas K. <aku...@sh...>]

... are available at

	ftp://ftp.tcl.tk/pub/incoming/tcllib-1.11rc1.kit
	ftp://ftp.tcl.tk/pub/incoming/tcllib-1.11rc1.tar.bz2
	ftp://ftp.tcl.tk/pub/incoming/tcllib-1.11rc1.tar.gz
	ftp://ftp.tcl.tk/pub/incoming/tcllib-1.11rc1.zip

Checksums (md5)

4e995e1b9e2a202d443328777286997a  tcllib-1.11rc1.kit
682aa8a8eedddcbe9bce35475586f273  tcllib-1.11rc1.tar.bz2
6680abbf8cd9e5c34f4b611b80271227  tcllib-1.11rc1.tar.gz
8d1a37c0bfe697b4b410a65ca63e06be  tcllib-1.11rc1.zip

I plan to release at the end of this week (Fri 17), barring objections.

-- 
So long,
	Andreas Kupries <aku...@sh...>
			<http://www.purl.org/NET/akupries/>
	Developer @	<http://www.activestate.com/>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Tcllib-devel] what is the naming strategy for tcllib module reference pages?

[Virden, L. W. <lv...@ca...>]

One of the frustrating things I've encountered with Tcl over the years has
to do with something as simple as names.

For instance, there is the frustration of remembering the package name. I
mean, is it 

package require tclx
package require Tclx
or
package require TclX

One of the things that makes it confusing is this:

$ man -s n TclX
and I get a reference page
$ tclsh8.5
% package require TclX
can't find package TclX
%

In the case of some other packages, trying to figure out what to do about
colons in the name is a decision. Sometimes, such as in Tcl, the name is
just left alone (man -s n platform::shell). In other cases, the double colon
is turned into an underline or some other character. And in other cases, 
the doc namers just try to avoid the whole issue.

A similar situation occurs in Tcllib. In some cases, man pages are the
name of the command inside of a tcllib module, with no indication of the
module that one requires to get it. In other cases, the man page
names are the module name, an underline, and a command name, or a module name,
an underline, and a descriptive word or abbreviation. And in other
cases, the name is a namespace, an underline, and another command name.

For a developer trying to figure out what to type to find a specific man
command, it becomes a frustration.

Here's some of the issues:

1. In textutil, the string and split command reference pages are installed
as string.n and split.n ... overwriting the Tcl man pages for those commands.

2. These commands are two part names:
ansi_cattr.n             doctoc_lang_faq.n        ntp_time.n
ansi_cctrl.n             doctoc_lang_intro.n      page_intro.n
ansi_cmacros.n           doctoc_lang_syntax.n     page_pluginmgr.n
ansi_code.n              doctoc_plugin_apiref.n   page_util_flow.n
ansi_ctrlu.n             doctools_intro.n         page_util_norm_lemon.n
ansi_send.n              doctools_lang_cmdref.n   page_util_norm_peg.n
bench_intro.n            doctools_lang_faq.n      page_util_peg.n
bench_lang_intro.n       doctools_lang_intro.n    page_util_quote.n
bench_lang_spec.n        doctools_lang_syntax.n   peg_interp.n
bench_read.n             doctools_plugin_apiref.n pop3d_dbox.n
bench_wcsv.n             ftp_geturl.n             pop3d_udb.n
bench_wtext.n            me_ast.n                 rational_funcs.n
comm_wire.n              me_cpu.n                 stringprep_data.n
deleg_method.n           me_cpucore.n             struct_list.n
deleg_proc.n             me_intro.n               struct_set.n
docidx_intro.n           me_tcl.n                 struct_tree.n
docidx_lang_cmdref.n     me_util.n                struct_tree1.n
docidx_lang_faq.n        me_vm.n                  tcllib_dns.n
docidx_lang_intro.n      nns_auto.n               tcllib_interp.n
docidx_lang_syntax.n     nns_client.n             tcllib_ip.n
docidx_plugin_apiref.n   nns_common.n             term_bind.n
docstrip_util.n          nns_intro.n              term_send.n
doctoc_intro.n           nns_protocol.n           tie_std.n
doctoc_lang_cmdref.n     nns_server.n             unicode_data.n

-- 
Tcl - The glue of a new generation.  <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ >
Larry W. Virden <mailto:lv...@ca...><URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ >
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should 
be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
-><-

[Tcllib-devel] Tcllib Release Work, Status

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

... was less than I had planned in the last two weeks, with prepration for
the vacation interfering more than I thought.

Status as of now:

	The CVS head passes testsuite for the Tcl 8.4 and 8.5 Heads, on a linux-x86
box (Ubuntu).

	Integrated some of Alejandro Paz's work on graph algorithms (GSoC 2008)
	- Extension of prioqueue (new method 'remove')
	- New class struct::disjointset (partitioned set, mergefind structure)

I will now be on vacation till Sep 28, and then continue working on the
release.
After the vacation the main focus will be on the checking of version
numbers, validation, etc.
While I will continue integration on the graph work I am not sure how much
of it I will manage to add before release.
If there is substantial stuff which had to be left out to get the release in
time I will schedule a minor release for December, i.e. in time for Xmas.

I would be very glad if anybody with time on their hands would run Tcllib's
testsuite on their system.

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122

Re: [Tcllib-devel] help

[Kevin K. <kk...@ny...>]

Andreas Kupries wrote:
> ... is impossible to give if we are not told what you are asking for help
> about. We are not mind readers.

Only because we haven't implemented TIP #131 (http://tip.tcl.tk/131) yet!

--
73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin

Re: [Tcllib-devel] help

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

... is impossible to give if we are not told what you are asking for help
about. We are not mind readers.

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122

[Tcllib-devel] help

[Rüdiger H. <ha...@po...>]

help

Re: [Tcllib-devel] has anyone began testing tcllib cvs head andtcl8.5.4?

[Michael S. <sc...@un...>]

Am 27.08.2008 um 14:51 schrieb KATO Kanryu:

> Although it is a fundamental question,
> In what kind of environment is test evaluation of the tcllib carried
> out until now?
> (Operating Systems / Distributions / Tcl versions / etc..)

I usually run tests with OS X 10.5, Windows XP, OpenSolaris x86, some  
Linux Distros,
Windows 2003 Server. Mostly what VMs i have around currently.

Tcl Version varies, usually from Tcl 8.4 up to current CVS Head,  
sometimes Tcl 8.3.

Michael

Re: [Tcllib-devel] has anyone began testing tcllib cvs headandtcl8.5.4?

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

> Although it is a fundamental question,
> In what kind of environment is test evaluation of the tcllib carried
> out until now?
> (Operating Systems / Distributions / Tcl versions / etc..)

OS
	Linux, Solaris 2.8, Windows XP, HPUX 11
	Maybe AIX, OSX

	(These are OS's on boxes I have access to, mostly at the office (*))
	(*) Linux I have at home as well.

Distributions
	Applicable mostly to Linux
		SuSE 9.0 / Ubuntu (@home)

Tcl versions
	8.4 cvs head
	8.5 cvs head

These were done in the past, and the plan is to use these for the upcoming
release as well.

Where I can I try to run tests with and without the critcl based
accelerators.

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122

Re: [Tcllib-devel] has anyone began testing tcllib cvs head andtcl8.5.4?

[KATO K. <k.k...@gm...>]

Although it is a fundamental question,
In what kind of environment is test evaluation of the tcllib carried
out until now?
(Operating Systems / Distributions / Tcl versions / etc..)

Re: [Tcllib-devel] has anyone began testing tcllib cvs head andtcl8.5.4?

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

Reducing further, mapping the test names to modules/packages

	control
	snit
	doctools
	grammar::fa
	grammar::me::cpucore
	jpeg
	logger
	math
	math::linearalgebra
	report
	struct::graph
	struct::matrix
	struct::set
	struct::tree
	tie

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122
 

Re: [Tcllib-devel] has anyone began testing tcllib cvs head and tcl8.5.4?

[Virden, L. W. <lv...@ca...>]

 
Modules:
    do-2.3
    docidx-3.0
    doctoc-3.0
    doctools-3.0
    fa-final-tcl-2.0
    fa-next-tcl-1.0
    fa-next-tcl-1.1
    fa-next-tcl-1.9 
    fa-next-tcl-1.10 
    fa-start-tcl-2.0
    fa-state-tcl-1.0
    fa-state-tcl-1.1
    fa-state-tcl-1.4
    fa-state-tcl-1.6
    fa-state-tcl-1.8
    fa-symbol-tcl-1.0
    fa-symbol-tcl-1.2
    fa-symbol-tcl-1.5
    fa-symbol-tcl-1.7
    fa-symbol-tcl-1.9 
    me-cpucore-tok-tcl-1.0
    jpeg-20.0 
    jpeg-20.1 
    ldap-18.0 
    logger-trace-1.1 
    math-1.1 
    math-2.1 
    math-3.1 
    math-4.1 
    math-5.1
    math-6.1
    math-6.2
    math-7.1
    math-7.2
    math-8.1
    math-8.2
    linmin-2.1
    linmin-4.1
    report-6.0
    report-15.0
 report-16.0
 report-17.0
 report-18.0
 report-19.0
 report-20.0
 report-21.0
 report-22.0
 report-23.0
 report-24.0
 htypemethod-1.6
 creation-1.10
 creation-1.14
 hmethod-1.6
 iinfo-1.2
 tinfo-1.2
 graph-tcl-tcl-walk-1.0
 graph-tcl-tcl-arc-attr-1.0
 graph-tcl-tcl-arc-insert-1.0
 graph-tcl-tcl-arc-insert-1.1
 graph-tcl-tcl-node-attr-1.0
 graph-tcl-tcl-arc-set-1.0
 graph-tcl-tcl-arc-set-1.1
 graph-tcl-tcl-node-set-1.0
 graph-tcl-tcl-node-set-1.1
 graph-tcl-tcl-graph-set-1.0
 matrix-11.0
 matrix-11.1
 matrix1-11.0
 matrix1-11.1
 set-tcl-1.0
 tree-tcl-4.4.17
 tree-tcl-6.0
 tie-7.1
 tie-8.0




-- 
<URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ >
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
<URL: mailto:lv...@gm... > <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/
>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Andreas Kupries [mailto:and...@ac...] 
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:46 AM
To: Virden, Larry W.; tcl...@li...
Subject: RE: [Tcllib-devel] has anyone began testing tcllib cvs head and
tcl8.5.4?

>
> $ fgrep -c FAILED tcllib/unix/casrun.lwv
> 148
>
> Now, for each failure, there's two lines with FAILED in it. So 74 test

> cases failed.

> It appears there are quite a large number of errors being generated 
> when I run the tcllib test suite against tcl 8.5.4 built on sparc 
> solaris.

> With this many errors, I don't have time, and you probalby don't have 
> the energy, to handle that many bug reports.

Can you reduce it down to the names of the modules in which we have the
failures ?


> Here's a sampling of what I see:
>
> ==== do-2.3 wrong no of arguments FAILED ==== Contents of test case:
>
>     set res [catch do]
>     if {[string match  {no value given for parameter "body" to "do"*}

> $::errorInfo]
>     } then {
> 	set ::errorInfo {wrong # args: should be "do body args"
>     while executing
> "do"}
>     }
>     list $res $::errorInfo
>
> ---- Result was:
> 1 {wrong # args: should be "do body ?arg ...?"
>     while executing
> "do"}
> ---- Result should have been (exact matching):
> 1 {wrong # args: should be "do body ..."
>     while executing
> "do"}
> ==== do-2.3 FAILED

Snit ... And it seems that the recent drive for 'consistent error
messages'
(which started in the 8.5 series IIRC) has changed the details of the
error stack, causing many tests containing (partial) stack trac traces
to now fail.

We can likely fix this by "simply" updating the test cases. Maybe
changing to glob matching, to ignore the changing parts?



> This difference in error message appears to be the sort of thing many 
> of the failures are.

Yes.

> Here's another type of error:
>
> ==== tree-tcl-4.4.17 error in walk FAILED

Also stacktrace

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122

Re: [Tcllib-devel] has anyone began testing tcllib cvs head and tcl8.5.4?

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

>
> $ fgrep -c FAILED tcllib/unix/casrun.lwv
> 148
>
> Now, for each failure, there's two lines with FAILED in it. So 74
> test cases
> failed.

> It appears there are quite a large number of errors being
> generated when I run
> the tcllib test suite against tcl 8.5.4 built on sparc solaris.

> With this many errors, I don't have time, and you probalby don't have the
> energy, to handle that many bug reports.

Can you reduce it down to the names of the modules in which we have the
failures ?


> Here's a sampling of what I see:
>
> ==== do-2.3 wrong no of arguments FAILED
> ==== Contents of test case:
>
>     set res [catch do]
>     if {[string match  {no value given for parameter "body" to
> "do"*}  $::errorInfo]
>     } then {
> 	set ::errorInfo {wrong # args: should be "do body args"
>     while executing
> "do"}
>     }
>     list $res $::errorInfo
>
> ---- Result was:
> 1 {wrong # args: should be "do body ?arg ...?"
>     while executing
> "do"}
> ---- Result should have been (exact matching):
> 1 {wrong # args: should be "do body ..."
>     while executing
> "do"}
> ==== do-2.3 FAILED

Snit ... And it seems that the recent drive for 'consistent error messages'
(which started in the 8.5 series IIRC) has changed the details of the error
stack, causing many tests containing (partial) stack trac traces to now
fail.

We can likely fix this by "simply" updating the test cases. Maybe changing
to glob matching, to ignore the changing parts?



> This difference in error message appears to be the sort of thing many of
> the failures are.

Yes.

> Here's another type of error:
>
> ==== tree-tcl-4.4.17 error in walk FAILED

Also stacktrace

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122

[Tcllib-devel] has anyone began testing tcllib cvs head and tcl 8.5.4?

[Virden, L. W. <lv...@ca...>]

$ fgrep -c FAILED tcllib/unix/casrun.lwv
148

Now, for each failure, there's two lines with FAILED in it. So 74 test cases
failed.

It appears there are quite a large number of errors being generated when I run
the tcllib test suite against tcl 8.5.4 built on sparc solaris.

With this many errors, I don't have time, and you probalby don't have the
energy, to handle that many bug reports.

Here's a sampling of what I see:


==== do-2.3 wrong no of arguments FAILED
==== Contents of test case:

    set res [catch do]
    if {[string match  {no value given for parameter "body" to "do"*}  $::errorInfo]
    } then {
	set ::errorInfo {wrong # args: should be "do body args"
    while executing
"do"}
    }
    list $res $::errorInfo

---- Result was:
1 {wrong # args: should be "do body ?arg ...?"
    while executing
"do"}
---- Result should have been (exact matching):
1 {wrong # args: should be "do body ..."
    while executing
"do"}
==== do-2.3 FAILED

This difference in error message appears to be the sort of thing many of
the failures are.


Here's a slight variation of the error, I think.

==== htypemethod-1.6 proper error on missing submethod FAILED
==== Contents of test case:

    cleanup

    type dog {
        typemethod {wag tail} {} { }
    }

    dog wag

---- Result was:
wrong # args: should be "dog wag subcommand ?arg ...?"
---- Result should have been (exact matching):
wrong # args: should be "dog wag subcommand ?argument ...?"
==== htypemethod-1.6 FAILED

Here's another type of error:

==== tree-tcl-4.4.17 error in walk FAILED
==== Contents of test case:

    set t [list ]
    proc foo {} {
	global t
	tree mytree
	mytree insert root end 0 1 2 3
	mytree insert 0 end a b c
	lappend t ==
	mytree walk root {a n} {
	    if {[string equal $n "b"]} {
		lappend t .
		error fubar
	    }
	    lappend t $a $n
	}
	lappend t ==
	return bad-return
    }
    catch {lappend t [foo]} result
    mytree destroy
    list $t $result $::errorInfo

---- Result was:
{== enter root enter 0 enter a .} fubar {fubar
    while executing
"error fubar"
    ("WalkCall" body line 4)
    invoked from within
"WalkCall $avar $nvar $name $node "enter" $script"
    (procedure "::struct::tree::_walk" line 88)
    invoked from within
"::struct::tree::_walk ::mytree root {a n} {
	    if {[string equal $n "b"]} {
		lappend t .
		error fubar
	    }
	    lappend t $a $n
	}"
    ("_walk" body line 1)
    invoked from within
"mytree walk root {a n} {
	    if {[string equal $n "b"]} {
		lappend t .
		error fubar
	    }
	    lappend t $a $n
	}"
    (procedure "foo" line 7)
    invoked from within
"foo"}
---- Result should have been (exact matching):
{== enter root enter 0 enter a .} fubar {fubar
    while executing
"error fubar"
    invoked from within
"if {[string equal $n "b"]} {
		lappend t .
		error fubar
	    }"
    ("WalkCall" body line 2)
    invoked from within
"WalkCall $avar $nvar $name $node "enter" $script"
    (procedure "::struct::tree::_walk" line 88)
    invoked from within
"::struct::tree::_walk ::mytree root {a n} {
	    if {[string equal $n "b"]} {
		lappend t .
		error fubar
	    }
	    lappend t $a $n
	}"
    ("_walk" body line 1)
    invoked from within
"mytree walk root {a n} {
	    if {[string equal $n "b"]} {
		lappend t .
		error fubar
	    }
	    lappend t $a $n
	}"
    (procedure "foo" line 7)
    invoked from within
"foo"}
==== tree-tcl-4.4.17 FAILED


-- 
Tcl - The glue of a new generation.  <URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ >
Larry W. Virden <mailto:lv...@ca...><URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ >
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should 
be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
-><-

Re: [Tcllib-devel] Tcllib Release Plan?

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

> Hi all,
>
> just wanted to start the discussion when the next Tcllib release will
> be done.
>
> So, lets toss the open issues into the ring:
>
> 1. When will the next release be done?

If we want to be in time for the conference the release should be a week
before the con starts, latest. Conference is Oct 20-24, so the latest date
for release is Monday Oct 13.

To prepare the release we should allocate a month (4 weeks). The parts
taking most of the time are

	(1)	Testing on a lot of platforms.
	(2)	Going over the modules, their changelogs and writing up which
		packages got changes and how complex (bug fixes, testsuite
		fixes, new features, major api changes), using this info to
		check that the version numbers were/are incremented properly,
		and using the info to write up the README which gives an
		overview of the changes since the last release.

So release work should start Sep 15 latest.

This puts its square at the beginning of my vacation, which is Sep 15 to Sep
26 (*).
Which means I either better start on this on Sep 1, or offload parts to
someone else,
or both.

Anybody volunteering for doing the testing work, or the write up ? (**)

(*) Unusual for me, an end-of-summer vacation.

(**) The testing is easier, the write-up is mind-numbing, going over 88
modules containing that many Changelogs and 249 packages takes time. I am
always pining for sak commands which could make this easier, by
incrementally collecting info from checkins and developers, and then
auto-generating the README and such. I never seem to manage to actually
write them.


> 2. What version should it get?
> 3. Are there pressing issues that should be dealt with until that time?

If we have they should be bumped to priority 9 in the bug tracker.

>  From historical data i would assume there is a release assumed to
> happen before the annual Tcl conference.
> Is this also the plan for this year?

In general yes.

> For the version number..., i don't think there have been any major
> changes to really need a 2.0, but as Tcllib
> is no longer a package of its own anyway we could just push up the
> numbers for marketing reasons. 1.11 sounds
> not as nice as a fresh and shiny 2.0. Or we could drop the style
> alltogether and adopt a year number style, as
> that would coincide with reality of the release schedule.

I would have been happy to simply increment 10 to 11 ...

> Open issues i see are some packages with missing docs or tests, more
> examples are always nice for a release.

Concrete names ? Note: docs and tests should come from the package authors.
I will not write them, except if a package in question is one I maintain.
Even then I am less inclined as it would take time away from th admin stuff
for the release.

> And of course fixing bugs and making sure stuff works fine with the
> 8.5 and possible 8.6 release candidates.

8.5 yes, 8.6 less so. If test suite errors are only about error messages
changed in 8.6 then no, nothing should be done about them, not until 8.6 is
out of alpha.

> Michael

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122

[Tcllib-devel] TCL 2008 Last Call for participation and papers

[<aku...@sh...>]

*****  TCL 2008 Last Call for participation and papers ******

Note extension of abstract deadline.


http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2008/


On October 20-24, 2008,  the city of Manassas, VA will play host to Tcl 
2008.
Join us for what promises to be a memorable, informative and fun 
conference.

Tcl 2008 will be held at the Comfort Suites in Manassas, VA; about 30 miles
outside of Washington DC .   Tutorial sessions on various topics will be
held October 20 and 21.  The technical sessions will run October 22 through
October 24.

*** If you are a student check out the special student rates
*** at the conference website:
*** http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2008/ click Registration

If you have an interesting Tcl paper to contribute, a tutorial to offer,
a suggestion to give, submit it to the Tcl 2008 program commitee:
"tcl2008 at tcl dot tk".  Pretty much anything Tcl/Tk is acceptable.
In the past we have had papers on:

* Application of Tcl/Tk in industries as diverse as engineering,
   science, industrial controls, broadcasting, financial services,
   medical   and electronic design
* Networking with Tcl/Tk, including distributed applications and
   network management
* Object frameworks for Tcl/Tk
* New widgets and techniques for GUI design with Tk
* Simulation and application steering with Tcl/Tk
* Tcl/Tk on handheld and embedded devices
* New Tcl extensions and add-ons, including Tcllib and Tklib
* Tcl/Tk centric operating environments
* Tcl/Tk in education and learning environments.


This year is the first year that the Tcl community is participating
in the Google Summer of Code.  The conference program committee
would like to encourage submissions that report on the Tcl projects
selected for Google SOC 2008.

Author Schedule:
* Submit abstracts and tutorial proposals to Tcl2008 at Tcl dot tk by
   August 22, 2008
* Authors will be informed of acceptance by September 7
* Author materials should be submitted to the proceedings editor
   by October 15, 2008

This year we will be making the conference proceedings available as
a published book.  This may impact our plans for when author materials
must be submitted.  Watch future call for participation for more.

Tcl 2008 provides an unparalleled opportunity to discuss your Tcl
projects with some of the world's top Tcl experts.  Past conferences
have included notables like:

* Jeff Hobbs: The Tcl Guy and ActiveState's point man for Tcl
   development and support.
* Clif Flynt: Author of _Tcl/Tk:_A_Developer's_Guide_,  as well
   as the popular TclTutor application.
* Donal Fellows Author of TCL OO.
* Miguel Sofer, Tcl Core team member and byte code compiler expert.
* D. Richard Hipp, Tcl Core Team member and author of sqlite.
* Mike Doyle: Director of Eolas.
* Joe English, Author of the ttk toolkit formerly (and still)
   known as Tile.
* Sean "Hypnotoad" Woods, author of 'that other' Tao.

Confirmed Speakers:
* Jeff Hobbs will present the annual ActiveState of Tcl talk.

Conference Committee:

Local Site:
===========
                       Affiliation
Sean Woods            Test and Evaluation
                       Solutions  LLC              Facilities chair
Clif Flynt            Noumena Corp.               General Chair


Program Committee:

Sean Woods            Test and Evaluations Solutions LLC
Clif Flynt            Noumena Corp.
Steve Redler  IV      SR Technology
Steve Landers         Digital Smarties
Cyndy Lilagan         Iomas Research
Kevin B. Kenny        G.E. Global Research Center.
Jeffrey Hobbs         ActiveState Software Inc.
Andreas Kupries       ActiveState Software Inc.
Ron Fox               NSCL Michigan State University
Donal Fellows         University of Manchester
Larry Virden          Tcl FAQ Maintainer
Mike Doyle            Iomas Research
Matthew M. Burke      George Washington University
Gerald Lester         TicketSwitch USA LLC
Richard Suchenwirth   Siemens Industrial Solutions
                       and Services Postal Automation
                       Division


Tcl 2008 would like to thank those who are sponsoring the conference:

ActiveState Software Inc.
Noumena Corp.
SR Technology
Tcl Association


--
Sincerely,
	Andreas Kupries <aku...@sh...>
			<http://www.purl.org/NET/akupries/>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Tcllib-devel] Tcllib Release Plan?

[Michael S. <sc...@un...>]

Hi all,

just wanted to start the discussion when the next Tcllib release will  
be done.

So, lets toss the open issues into the ring:

1. When will the next release be done?
2. What version should it get?
3. Are there pressing issues that should be dealt with until that time?

 From historical data i would assume there is a release assumed to  
happen before the annual Tcl conference.
Is this also the plan for this year?

For the version number..., i don't think there have been any major  
changes to really need a 2.0, but as Tcllib
is no longer a package of its own anyway we could just push up the  
numbers for marketing reasons. 1.11 sounds
not as nice as a fresh and shiny 2.0. Or we could drop the style  
alltogether and adopt a year number style, as
that would coincide with reality of the release schedule.

Open issues i see are some packages with missing docs or tests, more  
examples are always nice for a release.
And of course fixing bugs and making sure stuff works fine with the  
8.5 and possible 8.6 release candidates.

Michael

  

[Tcllib-devel] google protocol buffers

[Andreas K. <and...@ac...>]

So, there is a new (binary) rpc/xdr/idl/asn/serialization and encoding
format in the world ...
http://code.google.com/apis/protocolbuffers/docs/overview.html

Will anybody have time to implement that for Tcl, in Tcl ?
Right now they have apparently code for Java, C++, and Python.

--
	Andreas Kupries <and...@Ac...>
	Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com
	Tel: +1 778-786-1122

Re: [Tcllib-devel] Writing tests - how?

[KATO K. <k.k...@gm...>]

*** 'installers':

How to specify forcibly the module of testsuite used by the [whole
test] before installation can be considered. It is the form where
[tcltest-2.x.x.tm] is enclosed in the distribution package of tcllib.
(Probably it is arranged below at [support/devel/*])


*** 'developers':

Except for the minute version difference, we may assume that the
common testsuite tool is installed. I want you to be the form which
can do both the whole test of tcllib and the simple test of the module
I am writing.


Now, the test script is arranged to the same directory as each module,
and there may be assumption of operating a test script alone by a
modular current directory. That is, there is two usage.


(1) ensemble test
$ sak test run modules/foo

(2) single test
$ cd modules/foo
$ tclsh foo.test

In (2), it should be cautious of necessarily not using devtools of tcllib.
But it will be thought that he wants to use convenient support-tool.
However the tool is not necessarily installed at[.. /devtools/*]


*** 'solution':

Branch is required to support both (1) and (2).

# ---------------
# foo.test begin

if {[lsearch [namespace children] ::tcllibtest] == -1} {
    # (1) ensemble test
    package require tcllib::testutilities
    testsNeedTcl     8.3
    testsNeedTcltest 1.0
    testing {
        useLocal foo.tcl foo
    }
} else {
    # (2) single test
    set selfrun 1
    package require tcltest
    namespace import ::tcltest::*
    source foo.tcl
}

test foo-1.1 "concrete tests..." { [body] } { result }
test foo-1.2
...
..
.

if [info exists selfrun] {
    tcltest::cleanupTests
} else {
    testsuiteCleanup
}

# foo.test end
# ---------------

What is necessary is just to guarantee operating correctly by (1) as a
test script enclosed to tcllib.

Re: [Tcllib-devel] Tcl 8.2 support

[Jeff H. <je...@ac...>]

Lars Hellström wrote:
> This is an old thread, and an issue probably already settled, but it 
> just occurred to me that the main argument for the strict interpretation 
> is flawed, or requires changes also elsewhere.
> 
> On 2008-05-25, Jeff Hobbs wrote:
>> Lars Hellström wrote:
>>> I can understand a policy of "don't make any changes to patches, or 
>>> otherwise restrain your coding style, just for the sake of preserving 
>>> compatibility with Tcl 8.x if x<4". I can also understand not wanting 
>>> to entertain old Tcl versions just for the sake of testing tcllib 
>>> releases, in the hope that someone, somewhere might appreciate it.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, denying the actual compatibility level of a piece 
>>> of software feels rather artificial.
>>>
>>> Is the catch the uncertainty factor: that one can _presume_ a package 
>>> works with Tcl 8.2 based on the features it uses, but won't really 
>>> _know_ whether this is the case until having tested it on an actual 
>>> Tcl 8.2 interpreter?
>>
>> This is the primary reason.  Unless someone else is secretly doing it, 
>> tcllib hasn't been tested against anything below 8.4 in a long time.
> 
> This seems reasonable as long as one considers only the Tcl version, but 
> in this context Tcl is just a package on which there is some dependence; 
> one package among many. Hence if this "we can only have [package 
> require] for versions actively tested" principle is to be taken 
> seriously, then it should be applied also for all other packages, should 
> it not?
	...
> The conditional use of C extension packages (such as Trf) complicates 
> the matter further, because making use of these then requires running 
	...
> Conclusion: I doubt we have ever conducted tests at the level of rigor 
> that this principle aims for.

While true, it does not invalidate the previous point.  Also, the 
inter-library package issues are a less-key subclass than the feature 
set assumptions of the core.

Jeff