Thread: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-10 12:33:09
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Okay, I spent quite a bit of thinking on this over the weekend. Ingo made a comment to me that he thinks the fireflower and such should be replaced with various types of magic. I generally think this is a good idea. To encourage laziness, and for overall neatness, I have another idea to add to this: Tux should use scepters (sort of like a cross between wands and staffs) for various magical abilities. This will make it so that we only have to make a few images of him holding the staffs in various forms, and then draw multiple forms of the staff over them. Ingo and I also had a huge clash over this idea... I thought that tux should have a magic meter that would be refilled by collecting coins, and used up by firing fireballs and such. To add a bit of strategy to the game, you know? Ingo absolutely hates this idea, but I think it is great. Perhaps I could squeeze it in as an option then :) However, Ingo did come up with an alternate solution... one that I think is quite good (and that I think should not replace but just be included along with my idea ;) Basically, it would entail that switching to other magic "types" (I.e. from fire to ice) will "puish" the player, like it does in r-type and some other games, as you have to "build up" each type of magic. Say for example that first when you grab the ice power you get only an ice sword, which can simply bash enemies and freeze them. However, when you grab the ice power again, you get the ice scepter, which allows you to shoot ice spells. But if you went and grabbed the fire power, you'd be stuck with just a fire sword once again. I dunno, I'm just throwing ideas out into the open! What do you guys think? I plan on posting up some sketches soon on this. Christopher Allan Webber | The bottom line |
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From: Keir L. <ke...@th...> - 2004-05-10 12:49:36
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On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 07:37 -0500, Christopher A. Webber wrote: > Okay, I spent quite a bit of thinking on this over the weekend. Ingo > made a comment to me that he thinks the fireflower and such should be > replaced with various types of magic. I generally think this is a > good idea. > To encourage laziness, and for overall neatness, I have another idea > to add to this: Tux should use scepters (sort of like a cross between > wands and staffs) for various magical abilities. This will make it so > that we only have to make a few images of him holding the staffs in > various forms, and then draw multiple forms of the staff over them. > Ingo and I also had a huge clash over this idea... I thought that tux > should have a magic meter that would be refilled by collecting coins, > and used up by firing fireballs and such. To add a bit of strategy to > the game, you know? Ingo absolutely hates this idea, but I think it is > great. Perhaps I could squeeze it in as an option then :) > However, Ingo did come up with an alternate solution... one that I > think is quite good (and that I think should not replace but just be > included along with my idea ;) Basically, it would entail that > switching to other magic "types" (I.e. from fire to ice) will "puish" > the player, like it does in r-type and some other games, as you have > to "build up" each type of magic. Say for example that first when you > grab the ice power you get only an ice sword, which can simply bash > enemies and freeze them. However, when you grab the ice power again, > you get the ice scepter, which allows you to shoot ice spells. But if > you went and grabbed the fire power, you'd be stuck with just a fire > sword once again. > I dunno, I'm just throwing ideas out into the open! What do you guys > think? I plan on posting up some sketches soon on this. personally i think supertux should stick to mario-like behaviour Keir Lawson |
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-10 12:57:00
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> personally i think supertux should stick to mario-like behaviour It was decided long ago that we wouldn't restrict ourselves to only doing things that Shigeru Miyamoto & team did before. If we come up with good ideas, there's no reason not to embrace them, if they work well in the game. |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-10 13:13:15
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"Christopher A. Webber" <cr...@li...> writes: > Ingo and I also had a huge clash over this idea... I thought that > tux should have a magic meter that would be refilled by collecting > coins, and used up by firing fireballs and such. To add a bit of > strategy to the game, you know? Ingo absolutely hates this idea, but > I think it is great. Perhaps I could squeeze it in as an option then The problem with ammunition is that the time you collect it and the time you use it, are too far apart from each other. So you either have to be carefull about collecting all coins, which can easily get borning in case you don't need them or will end up running into situations where you need fireballs, but are in real throuble because you havn't collect coins in the beginning. So ammunition basically ends up frustrating the player most of the time, since the out come if you have enough or not, depends largly on that you know before hand what happens in a later part of the level. The kind of ammunition that I do like however is 'short term ammo', ie. you collect a fireflower, get three very powerfull balls to shoot and once done with them, the power is gone, no way to 'refuel' it other by collect another fireflower, which should be rare of course. If one makes it impossible or at least very hard to keep the ammo, ie. by using the run-button for shooting, so that the player no matter what, will have used it up pretty quickly, one can make sure that the fireflower would only be a short term bonus, not something that you collect about large periods of time. For example the fire and shooting abilites in Yoshi Island are done this way, eat a fruit and you get shooting power, but only for a handfull of shoots, problem while having such a fruit is that you are unable to eat enemies. So you get one 'weapon' while you lose another one, so one has to be carefull about what to eat in which situations. Since all fruits are used up pretty quickly one doesn't need to care about them much to keep them for later situations and such. -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Benjamin P. J. <bp...@gm...> - 2004-05-10 13:24:41
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><snip> >For example the fire and shooting abilites in Yoshi Island are done >this way, eat a fruit and you get shooting power, but only for a >handfull of shoots, problem while having such a fruit is that you are >unable to eat enemies. So you get one 'weapon' while you lose another >one, so one has to be carefull about what to eat in which situations. >Since all fruits are used up pretty quickly one doesn't need to care >about them much to keep them for later situations and such. > > Hmm... good one. After all, Super Tux was ment to be a Jump and Run game and not a strategic puzzle game..... right? Benjamin |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-10 13:42:52
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"Benjamin P. Jung" <bp...@gm...> writes: > Hmm... good one. > After all, Super Tux was ment to be a Jump and Run game > and not a strategic puzzle game..... right? The game itself should be when played streight from start to beginning feel like a normal jump'n run, but for secret levels, red-coins and other collect worthy stuff, it really can't be 'strategic puzzle'-like enough. If you ever played one of the Mario or Metroid up to 100% you know what I mean, some stuff really requires quite a lot planing to catch :) -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Keir L. <ke...@th...> - 2004-05-10 13:38:30
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On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 15:13 +0200, Ingo Ruhnke wrote: > "Christopher A. Webber" <cr...@li...> writes: > > > Ingo and I also had a huge clash over this idea... I thought that > > tux should have a magic meter that would be refilled by collecting > > coins, and used up by firing fireballs and such. To add a bit of > > strategy to the game, you know? Ingo absolutely hates this idea, but > > I think it is great. Perhaps I could squeeze it in as an option then > > The problem with ammunition is that the time you collect it and the > time you use it, are too far apart from each other. So you either have > to be carefull about collecting all coins, which can easily get > borning in case you don't need them or will end up running into > situations where you need fireballs, but are in real throuble because > you havn't collect coins in the beginning. So ammunition basically > ends up frustrating the player most of the time, since the out come if > you have enough or not, depends largly on that you know before hand > what happens in a later part of the level. > > The kind of ammunition that I do like however is 'short term ammo', > ie. you collect a fireflower, get three very powerfull balls to shoot > and once done with them, the power is gone, no way to 'refuel' it > other by collect another fireflower, which should be rare of course. > If one makes it impossible or at least very hard to keep the ammo, ie. > by using the run-button for shooting, so that the player no matter > what, will have used it up pretty quickly, one can make sure that the > fireflower would only be a short term bonus, not something that you > collect about large periods of time. > > For example the fire and shooting abilites in Yoshi Island are done > this way, eat a fruit and you get shooting power, but only for a > handfull of shoots, problem while having such a fruit is that you are > unable to eat enemies. So you get one 'weapon' while you lose another > one, so one has to be carefull about what to eat in which situations. > Since all fruits are used up pretty quickly one doesn't need to care > about them much to keep them for later situations and such. this seems like a much better way of doing things that a "magic system" to me Keir lawson |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-10 13:23:57
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Keir Lawson <ke...@th...> writes: > personally i think supertux should stick to mario-like behaviour Which Mario would that be, MarioBros, SuperMarioBros, SuperMarioBros2, SuperMarioBros3, SuperMarioLand, SuperMarioLand2, SuperMarioWorld, YoshisIsland, YoshisIsland2, Mario64, MarioSunshine? There are lots of Mario games out there and none really shares very much with the former release beside some basic elements (ie. bonus blocks, coins), stuff like Yoshi, Cape, Water-Pistol, Racoon, Hammer-Suit, Bunny-Helmet and such are very different from game to game (ie. not reused at all). So there really isn't very much 'stick to mario-like behaviour' that we could do, since there simply isn't one type of Mario behaviour out there. And beside that Tux really needs some kind of uniq gameplay detail on which one could build other stuff (ie. Yoshi in MarioWorld, Suits in MarioBros3, different characters in MarioBros2, Yoshi in YoshisIsland). A magic system could be such a little detail on which to base other stuff, the sliding behaviour could be another such little detail. -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Keir L. <ke...@th...> - 2004-05-10 13:36:25
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On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 15:23 +0200, Ingo Ruhnke wrote: > Keir Lawson <ke...@th...> writes: > > > personally i think supertux should stick to mario-like behaviour > > Which Mario would that be, MarioBros, SuperMarioBros, SuperMarioBros2, > SuperMarioBros3, SuperMarioLand, SuperMarioLand2, SuperMarioWorld, > YoshisIsland, YoshisIsland2, Mario64, MarioSunshine? > > There are lots of Mario games out there and none really shares very > much with the former release beside some basic elements (ie. bonus > blocks, coins), stuff like Yoshi, Cape, Water-Pistol, Racoon, > Hammer-Suit, Bunny-Helmet and such are very different from game to > game (ie. not reused at all). So there really isn't very much 'stick > to mario-like behaviour' that we could do, since there simply isn't > one type of Mario behaviour out there. > > And beside that Tux really needs some kind of uniq gameplay detail on > which one could build other stuff (ie. Yoshi in MarioWorld, Suits in > MarioBros3, different characters in MarioBros2, Yoshi in > YoshisIsland). A magic system could be such a little detail on which > to base other stuff, the sliding behaviour could be another such > little detail. true, im just not convinced that a "magic system" is the best way to achieve uniqueness, seems eiter you have some sort of penalty either for using magic to much, or for switching between magic, but the abilitys themselves wouldnt differ that much for say SMB 3 or SMW (didnt know there was a yoshi's island 2, heard of yoshi's story though), im not a fan of the penatlys idea, makes the game more sonic like (not gameplay wise, just that you can loose coins) hope that makes sense Keir Lawson |
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-10 13:46:37
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On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 08:36, Keir Lawson wrote: > true, im just not convinced that a "magic system" is the best way to > achieve uniqueness, seems eiter you have some sort of penalty either for > using magic to much, or for switching between magic, but the abilitys > themselves wouldnt differ that much for say SMB 3 or SMW (didnt know > there was a yoshi's island 2, heard of yoshi's story though), im not a > fan of the penatlys idea, makes the game more sonic like (not gameplay > wise, just that you can loose coins) I understand where you are coming from... but keep in mind that there has to be balance in the game somehow. Keep in mind that the magic meter thing is not agreed upon... though it seems that ingo and I both agree on the sword/ upgrade to scepter thing. I think, quite frankly, that this would be a heck of a lot of fun. I think that you'll agree too, once it becomes playable. I think one of the things that mades it seem so iffy is that it's never been done before in a platformer (as far as I know of). Anyway, magic itself doesn't "require" a magic meter. Magic is simply a concept. Christopher Allan Webber | The bottom line |
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From: Keir L. <ke...@th...> - 2004-05-10 14:10:14
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On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 08:50 -0500, Christopher A. Webber wrote: > On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 08:36, Keir Lawson wrote: > > true, im just not convinced that a "magic system" is the best way to > > achieve uniqueness, seems eiter you have some sort of penalty either for > > using magic to much, or for switching between magic, but the abilitys > > themselves wouldnt differ that much for say SMB 3 or SMW (didnt know > > there was a yoshi's island 2, heard of yoshi's story though), im not a > > fan of the penatlys idea, makes the game more sonic like (not gameplay > > wise, just that you can loose coins) > > I understand where you are coming from... but keep in mind that there > has to be balance in the game somehow. Keep in mind that the magic > meter thing is not agreed upon... though it seems that ingo and I both > agree on the sword/ upgrade to scepter thing. I think, quite frankly, > that this would be a heck of a lot of fun. I think that you'll agree > too, once it becomes playable. I think one of the things that mades > it seem so iffy is that it's never been done before in a platformer > (as far as I know of). > Anyway, magic itself doesn't "require" a magic meter. Magic is simply > a concept. if there is to be no running-out or penalty for use, then i dont understand how this differs from powerups aka smb2/smw/smw2, other than instead of morhping the whole sprite, a scepter changes personally i agree with ingo that you should have poweups which you have to use quickly, aka smw/smw2 Keir |
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From: Benjamin P. J. <bp...@gm...> - 2004-05-10 14:19:00
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> > >>Hmm... good one. >>After all, Super Tux was ment to be a Jump and Run game >>and not a strategic puzzle game..... right? >> >> > >The game itself should be when played streight from start to beginning >feel like a normal jump'n run, but for secret levels, red-coins and >other collect worthy stuff, it really can't be 'strategic puzzle'-like >enough. If you ever played one of the Mario or Metroid up to 100% you >know what I mean, some stuff really requires quite a lot planing to >catch :) > > Well.... ok: I agree that it's nice to have lot's of "strategic-puzzle" parts that __could__ be solved ... thinking of SuperMario World where lots of levels could only be reached by discovering well- placed secrets..... such things are great fun, indeed. on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running". Benjamin |
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-10 14:35:44
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> on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should > be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running". wait... that doesn't make sense. Do you mean that younger players should be playing the game just by running and jumping, and advanced gamers have to make it harder for themselves or something? :p CAW | Bottom line |
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From: Benjamin P. J. <bp...@gm...> - 2004-05-10 14:39:42
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Christopher A. Webber wrote: >>on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should >>be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running". >> >> > >wait... that doesn't make sense. >Do you mean that younger players should be playing the game just by >running and jumping, and advanced gamers have to make it harder for >themselves or something? :p > > > *sigh* ... no! Not really..... But even without solving all (most) of the puzzles it was possible to finish Super Mario World ... and so even though you had finished the game it was still fun to play. Umm.... just forget what I said before. Benjamin |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-10 14:42:36
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I think Benjamin's point is that the game should be kept pretty intuitive, so that anyone is able to play it right away... Ricardo Cruz Em Segunda, 10 de Maio de 2004 15:39, o Christopher A. Webber escreveu: > > on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should > > be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running". > > wait... that doesn't make sense. > Do you mean that younger players should be playing the game just by > running and jumping, and advanced gamers have to make it harder for > themselves or something? :p > > CAW > > > Bottom line -- The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug. -- Mark Twain |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-10 15:18:49
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Hi folks, this point of view is really straight forwarde IMHO. It doesn't mean we shouldn't implement advanced gameplay features, but they should be kept as intuitive as possible. Beyond that, every (perhaps with a few exceptions ;) ) gameplay feature is a good feature! :) Greetz... Tobias Gläßer Am Mo, den 10.05.2004 um 15:21 Uhr +0100 schrieb Ricardo Cruz: > I think Benjamin's point is that the game should be kept pretty intuitive, so > that anyone is able to play it right away... > > Ricardo Cruz > > Em Segunda, 10 de Maio de 2004 15:39, o Christopher A. Webber escreveu: > > > on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should > > > be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running". > > > > wait... that doesn't make sense. > > Do you mean that younger players should be playing the game just by > > running and jumping, and advanced gamers have to make it harder for > > themselves or something? :p > > > > CAW > > > > > > Bottom line > > -- > The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the > difference between lightning and the lightning bug. > -- Mark Twain > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by Sleepycat Software > Learn developer strategies Cisco, Motorola, Ericsson & Lucent use to > deliver higher performing products faster, at low TCO. > http://www.sleepycat.com/telcomwpreg.php?From=osdnemail3 > _______________________________________________ > Super-tux-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/super-tux-devel > |
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From: C R. <zra...@mi...> - 2004-05-10 18:43:12
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About this, I like the fruits idea (instead of swords/etc)... perhaps=20 it could be adapted more to Tux's world though... here's my ideas:=20 (geared toward levels with plenty of water, but could make for an=20 interesting set of levels) (Powerups and collectibles - I haven't=20 thought of badguys yet - probably sharklike creatures) And as someone=20 said, we'd stay away from "real-looking" animals, but most of these=20 could be easily cartoonized. Pebble: 1 Point Fish: 10 Points and maybe a little faster run speed or something Sardine Tin: 50 points, get bigger Archer Fish: Gives Tux Water Spit ability Lionfish: Gives Tux Fire Spit ability Flying Fish: Gives Tux Flight/Super Jump Ability Shell: Gives Tux Invulnerability Flashlightfish: Gives Tux sight in dark places Sponge: Gives Tux ability to spit bubbles to jump on like flying=20 snowballs to get to high places. Squid: Gives Tux Ink Squirt Ability (could be used to confuse enemies=20 (i.e. squirt and then be able to walk past them) Especially I think these could be interesting because each of the=20 fish-like objects could be moving... ;) Would give a bit of a=20 challenge. Anyone like these? Ratchet On May 10, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote: > Hi folks, > > this point of view is really straight forwarde IMHO. It doesn't mean > we shouldn't implement advanced gameplay features, but they should be > kept as intuitive as possible. > Beyond that, every (perhaps with a few exceptions ;) ) gameplay = feature > is a good feature! :) > > Greetz... > > Tobias Gl=E4=DFer > > Am Mo, den 10.05.2004 um 15:21 Uhr +0100 schrieb Ricardo Cruz: >> I think Benjamin's point is that the game should be kept pretty=20 >> intuitive, so >> that anyone is able to play it right away... >> >> Ricardo Cruz >> >> Em Segunda, 10 de Maio de 2004 15:39, o Christopher A. Webber=20 >> escreveu: >>>> on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should >>>> be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running". >>> >>> wait... that doesn't make sense. >>> Do you mean that younger players should be playing the game just by >>> running and jumping, and advanced gamers have to make it harder for >>> themselves or something? :p >>> >>> CAW >>> >>> >>> Bottom line >> >> --=20 >> The difference between the right word and the almost right word is = the >> difference between lightning and the lightning bug. >> -- Mark Twain >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by Sleepycat Software >> Learn developer strategies Cisco, Motorola, Ericsson & Lucent use to >> deliver higher performing products faster, at low TCO. >> http://www.sleepycat.com/telcomwpreg.php?From=3Dosdnemail3 >> _______________________________________________ >> Super-tux-devel mailing list >> Sup...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/super-tux-devel >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by Sleepycat Software > Learn developer strategies Cisco, Motorola, Ericsson & Lucent use to > deliver higher performing products faster, at low TCO. > http://www.sleepycat.com/telcomwpreg.php?From=3Dosdnemail3 > _______________________________________________ > Super-tux-devel mailing list > Sup...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/super-tux-devel > > --- Are YOU a Good Person? Go here:=20 http://www.wayofthemaster.com/wotm_flash.html |
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-10 20:26:46
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On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 13:43, C Ratchet wrote: > About this, I like the fruits idea (instead of swords/etc)... Wait a minute... I thought the problem people were having was with the concept of the magic meter, not with the sword/scepter thing. What's wrong with that? I think it provides a good opportunity for various magic implementations. CAW | The bottom line |
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From: C R. <zra...@mi...> - 2004-05-10 20:31:23
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You said before you should do new things that would work well in the=20 game... isn't fish more Tux-like than having magic? I personally don't=20= really like the magic-type stuff... Ratchet On May 10, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Christopher A. Webber wrote: > On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 13:43, C Ratchet wrote: > About this, I like the fruits idea (instead of swords/etc)... > > Wait a minute... I thought the problem people were having was with=20 > the concept of the magic meter, not with the sword/scepter thing.=A0=20= > What's wrong with that?=A0 I think it provides a good opportunity for=20= > various magic implementations. > > > CAW > > | > The bottom line --- Are YOU a Good Person? Go here:=20 http://www.wayofthemaster.com/wotm_flash.html |
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From: Ryan F. <rf...@gm...> - 2004-05-10 20:37:31
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On Mon, 10 May 2004 15:31:15 -0500, C Ratchet <zra...@mi...> wrote: > You said before you should do new things that would work well in the > game... isn't fish more Tux-like than having magic? I personally don't > really like the magic-type stuff... While I think fish would work, I also think it's pretty boring. Keep in mind that plumbers don't shoot fireballs or have racoon tails either, but SMB was fun to play :) I think magic (or something similar) would be more fun than fish. -- Ryan |
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-10 21:05:44
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On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 15:37, Ryan Flegel wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 2004 15:31:15 -0500, C Ratchet <zra...@mi...> wrote: > > > You said before you should do new things that would work well in the > > game... isn't fish more Tux-like than having magic? I personally don't > > really like the magic-type stuff... > > While I think fish would work, I also think it's pretty boring. Keep > in mind that plumbers don't shoot fireballs or have racoon tails > either, but SMB was fun to play :) I think magic (or something > similar) would be more fun than fish. agreed. Magic wasn't my idea anyway, it was Ingo's. The sword and scepter were mine. Speaking of which, I'm gonna go plug in my graphical tablet so I can draw this up :) |
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-10 21:39:48
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On this whole magic system thing... well, I threw together a sketch of the flame sword... it's not "ready for prime time" yet, but it's viewable, and you can see the kind of progress I'm making. I'm thinking that besides fire, there should be electricity and ice.. anything else? ( I know C Ratchet will have something :) ) CAW | The bottom line (yes, I always type that manually) |
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From: C R. <zra...@mi...> - 2004-05-10 21:47:35
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Not sure... maybe something like the squid power but don't know how=20 you'd fit that in to a non-fish based system :/ Ratchet On May 10, 2004, at 4:43 PM, Christopher A. Webber wrote: > On this whole magic system thing... well, I threw together a sketch=20= > of the flame sword... it's not "ready for prime time" yet, but it's=20 > viewable, and you can see the kind of progress I'm making. > I'm thinking that besides fire, there should be electricity and ice..=20= > anything else?=A0 ( I know C Ratchet will have something :) ) > > CAW > > | > The bottom line (yes, I always type that manually) --- Are YOU a Good Person? Go here:=20 http://www.wayofthemaster.com/wotm_flash.html |
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-10 21:55:57
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On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 16:43, Christopher A. Webber wrote: > On this whole magic system thing... well, I threw together a sketch of > the flame sword... it's not "ready for prime time" yet, but it's > viewable, and you can see the kind of progress I'm making. > I'm thinking that besides fire, there should be electricity and ice.. > anything else? ( I know C Ratchet will have something :) ) > > CAW > > | > The bottom line (yes, I always type that manually) Yikes! I forgot the URL! Silly me: http://lingocomic.com/gfx/goodies/supertux/flamesword.png http://lingocomic.com/gfx/goodies/supertux/flamesword.xcf |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-11 11:02:36
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"Christopher A. Webber" <cr...@li...> writes: > I'm thinking that besides fire, there should be electricity and ice.. > anything else? Water -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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