Thread: [Super-tux-devel] Release Schedule/Milestones/GotM
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-02-11 12:35:52
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Hi, as it is today, SuperTux provides a more or less working MarioBros1 style engine, but lacks levels, a readable font, graphics and other stuff like that. The current Todo[1] is very much focused on the far furture, basically going into a YoshiIsland/MarioBros3 direction, which would mean a huge change for the engine (backscrolling, vertical scrolling, different shaped tiles, an "Oberwelt"[2]). While that is good and fine to focus a bit on the far future, I would consider it a bit of a waste to simply throw the current working engine away. So my suggestion is that we: * fix up the current engine back into a usable state, ie. MarioBros1 like, no back-scrolling or other funky stuff that could get too complicated * create new graphics or update the current ones where doable * create a handfull of levels and connect them to a playable game * create a little credits-screen/extro or something like that * time-frame for this should relativly short, something around one month, see also the discussion about "Game of the Month" at happypenguin[3] [1] http://super-tux.sourceforge.net/development/index.html [2] The part of the game that are not the levels, but which connects them, also known as levelmap, not sure if there is a correct english term for it. [3] http://www.happypenguin.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1156 -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-02-11 16:05:33
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Hi all, that's mostly the same as I planed and told you already. ;) Am Mi, den 11.02.2004 schrieb Ingo Ruhnke um 07:35: > Hi, > > as it is today, SuperTux provides a more or less working MarioBros1 > style engine, but lacks levels, a readable font, graphics and other > stuff like that. That's the big problem and I hope to receive a bit more stuff _after_ the 0.0.6 release. > The current Todo[1] is very much focused on the far > furture, basically going into a YoshiIsland/MarioBros3 direction, > which would mean a huge change for the engine (backscrolling, vertical > scrolling, different shaped tiles, an "Oberwelt"[2]). While that is Hey, backscrolling _is_ already possible. ./supertux --debug-mode. ;) Bill Kendrick has prepared the "Oberwelt" idea, so this is in the spirit of SuperTux and therefore a must! :) > good and fine to focus a bit on the far future, I would consider it a > bit of a waste to simply throw the current working engine away. So my > suggestion is that we: Yep. > * fix up the current engine back into a usable state, ie. MarioBros1 > like, no back-scrolling or other funky stuff that could get too > complicated Well, there is much place for funky stuff and I rewrote much SuperTux so that adding them isn't that hard. > * create new graphics or update the current ones where doable Yep. > * create a handfull of levels and connect them to a playable game Yep. > * create a little credits-screen/extro or something like that Dunno, if that's needed. > * time-frame for this should relativly short, something around one > month, see also the discussion about "Game of the Month" at > happypenguin[3] I don't think SuperTux is a good candidate for such a title atm. Wait until 0.1. I'm trying to make short cycled releases after 0.0.6. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer -- |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-02-11 16:32:16
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Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes:
> Hey, backscrolling _is_ already possible. ./supertux --debug-mode.
The question is not so much if backscrolling is possible, but more if
we want or need it. With vertical scrolling its a must have, but with
just horizontal scrolling its not really important and doesn't provide
much advantages.
> Well, there is much place for funky stuff and I rewrote much
> SuperTux so that adding them isn't that hard.
Yep, but funky stuff should be keep to a minimum, I would prefer to
get 0.1.0 fastly done and then move on, instead of simply adding lots
of stuff to the old codebase, that might later turn out to be useless.
>> * create a little credits-screen/extro or something like that
> Dunno, if that's needed.
To make it short, its a must have. It doesn't has to be groundbreaking
or anything, but simply poping back to the start menu or something
like that after the last level looks just so damn broken.
>> * time-frame for this should relativly short, something around one
>> month, see also the discussion about "Game of the Month" at
>> happypenguin[3]
>
> I don't think SuperTux is a good candidate for such a title atm.
> Wait until 0.1. I'm trying to make short cycled releases after 0.0.6.
I wouldn't do any official releases at all once SuperTux reached a
'useable' state (be that 0.0.6 or 0.0.7 or whatever). My suggestion
would be something like:
0.0.6 - fixup to get back to the state before the huge cleanup
0.0.x - more fixup, feature freeze, so that levels don't break due to
newly added feature, at this point given a good ToDo it could
become "Game of the Month"
[no releases for a while, but instead working on the content (levels,
gfx, etc)]
0.1.0 - release a fully playable SuperTux with something like 10
levels or so, static-binary, etc.
0.1.1 - bugfixes for 0.1.0 only
0.2.x - changing the engine to handle features listed in the current
Todo, break compability with 0.1.0 levels, basically creating a
pretty different game.
--=20
WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20
JabberID: gr...@ja...=20
ICQ: 59461927
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-02-11 19:46:16
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Just to point out that "Game of the Month" is a place where monthly a game= =20 that needs some help, in terms of code, graphics, sounds, levels... is=20 placed. =2D- Ricardo Em Quarta, 11 de Fevereiro de 2004 22:09, o Tobias Gl=C3=A4=C3=9Fer escreve= u: > > * time-frame for this should relativly short, something around one > > month, see also the discussion about "Game of the Month" at > > happypenguin[3] > > I don't think SuperTux is a good candidate for such a title atm. > Wait until 0.1. I'm trying to make short cycled releases after 0.0.6. > > Greetz... > > Tobias Gl=C3=A4=C3=9Fer =2D-=20 Many people are secretly interested in life. |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-02-11 16:43:42
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Thank you for writing down this release plan. It doesn't differ from what I told you in the IRC meeting, I think. You may put this plan on our development homepage! > 0.0.6 - fixup to get back to the state before the huge cleanup That's what I'm doing currently. > 0.0.x - more fixup, feature freeze, so that levels don't break due to > newly added feature, at this point given a good ToDo it could > become "Game of the Month" Yep. I hope so! > [no releases for a while, but instead working on the content (levels, > gfx, etc)] Yep. > 0.1.0 - release a fully playable SuperTux with something like 10 > levels or so, static-binary, etc. Only 10 levels? That's really damn less. With a leveleditor it should be possible to "produce" at least 50 levels. ;) > 0.1.1 - bugfixes for 0.1.0 only Yep. > 0.2.x - changing the engine to handle features listed in the current > Todo, break compability with 0.1.0 levels, basically creating a > pretty different game. Yep. But let's concentrate on the 0.0.x series for now. :) Greetz... Tobias Gläßer -- |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-02-11 17:41:27
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Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > You may put this plan on our development homepage! I'll open up a new section for it soon. BTW. Should we move the main SuperTux page to sf.net too (ie the non-developer part)? > Only 10 levels? That's really damn less. With a leveleditor it should > be possible to "produce" at least 50 levels. ;) Depends on the output of the "Game of the Month" thing, if there are lots of people contributing good levels, there can be of course more, however something like 10 should be the target, if we get more than that, thats good, however if we get 10 that should be enough to release it. And anyway, 10 good levels are better than 50 sucky ones, more doesn't necesarrily mean its better (quantity vs quality). Just for the record SuperMarioBros and GianaSisters had both 'just' 32 levels.=20 --=20 WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20 JabberID: gr...@ja...=20 ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Bill K. <nb...@so...> - 2004-02-11 21:01:10
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On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 06:40:36PM +0100, Ingo Ruhnke wrote: > Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: >=20 > > You may put this plan on our development homepage! >=20 > I'll open up a new section for it soon. BTW. Should we move the main > SuperTux page to sf.net too (ie the non-developer part)? Probably. My participation lately has been low, once again. It seems to be 'your guy's' project now, and not 'mine,' so I'm happy to dust off everything and hand it over. :^) <snip>=20 > Depends on the output of the "Game of the Month" thing, if there are > lots of people contributing good levels, I'd like lots of voting (by us developers) on what we consider 'good' :) I don't trust the average response to be very good, unfortunately... -bill! bi...@ne... "Hey Shatner, ya remember that episod= e of http://newbreedsoftware.com/bill/ Space Trek where your show got cancel= led?" |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-02-12 09:38:46
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Hey, I don't think SuperTux should already be the Game of the Month, since the= =20 leveleditor is not yet that fun to use... I mean, without a mouse interface it sucks to edit levels, since you have = to=20 know the right keys. Futhermore, the Help screen doesn't display all the=20 keys, since the fonts don't support some characters... The level editor supports selections=20 [http://rpmcruz.planetaclix.pt/trash/supertux.png] (i'll commit it when the= =20 cvs is updated) and I think that with a mouse interface it would be pretty= =20 trivial and fun to create levels. My idea for the interface is to have a panel in the right that would have = a=20 few buttons (maybe 10, so that there could be numerical key bindings). The= =20 top/main buttons would be something like Background, Foreground, Bricks and= =20 Enemies. When a category was chosen, the avaible tiles would be listed, a=20 long with a Plus button (to display more) and a Back one (to get to the top= =20 level buttons). I think this would be enough for the GUI, there is no need to use a gui=20 library for the current level formats... Of course, with scripting and stuf= f,=20 it would be necessary to have dialogs and stuff and maybe then a gui librar= y=20 could be used. Just my 2 cents, Ricardo Cruz Em Quarta, 11 de Fevereiro de 2004 17:40, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu: > Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > > Only 10 levels? That's really damn less. With a leveleditor it should > > be possible to "produce" at least 50 levels. ;) > > Depends on the output of the "Game of the Month" thing, if there are > lots of people contributing good levels, there can be of course more, > however something like 10 should be the target, if we get more than > that, thats good, however if we get 10 that should be enough to > release it. And anyway, 10 good levels are better than 50 sucky ones, > more doesn't necesarrily mean its better (quantity vs quality). Just > for the record SuperMarioBros and GianaSisters had both 'just' 32 > levels. =2D-=20 Nothing makes one so vain as being told that one is a sinner. Conscience makes egotists of us all. -- Oscar Wilde |
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From: Bill K. <nb...@so...> - 2004-02-11 20:59:17
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On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 05:47:19PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote: > > 0.1.0 - release a fully playable SuperTux with something like 10 > > levels or so, static-binary, etc. >=20 > Only 10 levels? That's really damn less. With a leveleditor it should > be possible to "produce" at least 50 levels. ;) The original Super Mario Bros had 8 'worlds' of 4 'levels' each, so that was 32 zones to play in. Zones seemed roughly the same length, and were divided into two halves. The 'first' and the 'second.' There was no noticable difference between these sections. It was merely that if you died before you reached the midway point in a zone, you'd start at the beginning. If you died AFTER the midway point, you'd be resurrected AT the midway point. -bill! |
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From: Bill K. <nb...@so...> - 2004-02-11 20:52:35
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On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 01:35:06PM +0100, Ingo Ruhnke wrote: > Hi, > > as it is today, SuperTux provides a more or less working MarioBros1 > style engine, but lacks levels, a readable font, graphics and other > stuff like that. The current Todo[1] is very much focused on the far > furture, basically going into a YoshiIsland/MarioBros3 direction, > which would mean a huge change for the engine (backscrolling, vertical > scrolling, different shaped tiles, an "Oberwelt"[2]). While that is > good and fine to focus a bit on the far future, I would consider it a > bit of a waste to simply throw the current working engine away. So my > suggestion is that we: > > * fix up the current engine back into a usable state, ie. MarioBros1 > like, no back-scrolling or other funky stuff that could get too > complicated > Perhaps it would make sense to focus on "Super Tux" being not too much more than Super Mario Bros (the original). Make it fun, polish it, add great graphics and levels... THEN, when THAT'S all done, take the current code base and fork it into "Super Tux 2", which would have the countless additional features that I had never originally envisioned for "Super Tux." -bill! bi...@ne... "Hey Shatner, ya remember that episode of http://newbreedsoftware.com/bill/ Space Trek where your show got cancelled?" |
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From: Bill K. <nb...@so...> - 2004-02-11 20:57:12
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On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 05:31:25PM +0100, Ingo Ruhnke wrote: > Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: >=20 > > Hey, backscrolling _is_ already possible. ./supertux --debug-mode. >=20 > The question is not so much if backscrolling is possible, but more if > we want or need it. With vertical scrolling its a must have, but with > just horizontal scrolling its not really important and doesn't provide > much advantages. >=20 Not to repeat myself too many times, but I'm against 'backscrolling' in a game with Super Tux's theme. My previous jump-n-run game, Bobobot, allowed going back (although it wasn't scrolling), but that's because there was no sense of urgency. It was merely the entire world in danger, not your girlfriend. ;) Also, there was no timer. <snip> > >> * create a little credits-screen/extro or something like that > > Dunno, if that's needed. >=20 > To make it short, its a must have. It doesn't has to be groundbreaking > or anything, but simply poping back to the start menu or something > like that after the last level looks just so damn broken. I agree. We do have the 'Intro', so it'd be nice to have something ot 'end the story [... for now]' (cue evil music) <snip> > 0.2.x - changing the engine to handle features listed in the current > Todo, break compability with 0.1.0 levels, basically creating a > pretty different game. This is where I would fork completely. Hell, it might even make sense to just start from scratch for the 'next game.' Definitely DON'T just jury-rig on top of the current codebase to make a completely different game. There'll be a lot of picking and choosing, and throwing away of code, from the first 'version' to make the 'sequel,' and it makes no sense to do that INSIDE the original's code! -bill! |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-02-11 21:16:46
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Am Mi, den 11.02.2004 schrieb Bill Kendrick um 15:56: > On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 05:31:25PM +0100, Ingo Ruhnke wrote: > > Tobias Gläßer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > > > > Hey, backscrolling _is_ already possible. ./supertux --debug-mode. > > > > The question is not so much if backscrolling is possible, but more if > > we want or need it. With vertical scrolling its a must have, but with > > just horizontal scrolling its not really important and doesn't provide > > much advantages. > > > > Not to repeat myself too many times, but I'm against 'backscrolling' > in a game with Super Tux's theme. > > My previous jump-n-run game, Bobobot, allowed going back (although it > wasn't scrolling), but that's because there was no sense of urgency. > > It was merely the entire world in danger, not your girlfriend. ;) > Also, there was no timer. > > > <snip> > > >> * create a little credits-screen/extro or something like that > > > Dunno, if that's needed. > > > > To make it short, its a must have. It doesn't has to be groundbreaking > > or anything, but simply poping back to the start menu or something > > like that after the last level looks just so damn broken. > > I agree. We do have the 'Intro', so it'd be nice to have something ot > 'end the story [... for now]' (cue evil music) > > > <snip> > > 0.2.x - changing the engine to handle features listed in the current > > Todo, break compability with 0.1.0 levels, basically creating a > > pretty different game. > > This is where I would fork completely. Hell, it might even make sense > to just start from scratch for the 'next game.' Definitely DON'T > just jury-rig on top of the current codebase to make a completely > different game. There'll be a lot of picking and choosing, and throwing > away of code, from the first 'version' to make the 'sequel,' and it makes > no sense to do that INSIDE the original's code! > > -bill! I don't want to make a completely different game, when the 0.2.x development starts. Many parts (not all) of the current codebase are well designed, so that extending them makes sense. Things like scripting and other stuff certainly will make their way into this development branch and porting it to C++ will be an obvious step from my point of view. This step won't be too hard, since I can compile and link the current codebase on my working directory already with g++. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer |
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