[Super-tux-devel] Re: Next version plans

[matr1x <ma...@sh...>]

Since there seems to be a general "what should be and shouldn't be" in=20
SuperTux milestone 2, I thought i'd add my 2 cents

I actually only noticed the change in supertux just this week, I'd played a=
ll=20
the original Kendrick versions, and they were okay, but they didn't feel li=
ke=20
anything more than a proof of concept.  I really like the change in=20
direction, and hope I can contribute to it in some fashion.



> > over the webpage: http://super-tux.sourceforge.net/milestone2/index.html
> > ).
> >
> > * Vertical scrolling
> >
> >  Already made, there can be a bug here and there, but it is pretty good.
> >  Now, we only need to make the built-in level editor supporting it...
> > Does FlexLay already supports it?
> >
> > * Auto horizontal scrolling
> >
> >  I believe this is pretty stable by now.
> >  To enable it, just add the line to the level:
> >   (hor_autoscroll_speed 0.5)
> >  Being 0.5 the speed you wish. The velocity is in pixels per the number
> > of frames at defines.h.
> >
> > * Back scrolling
> >
> >  The camera stills needs work. It moves too fast in the beginning what =
is
> > really annoying and distracting.
> >  Anyway, you can already make levels supporting it by adding the
> > following line:
> >   (back_scrolling #t)
> > #t means true and #f false.
> >  Note that you also need to be in debug mode (supertux --debug-mode), in
> > order to enable it!
> >
> > * Smart camera
> >
> >  When the camera movement is improved, we can implement it to show more
> > stuff ahead Tux when he is running.
> >  It should also be possible for Tux to be stuff below and upper when
> > pressing in the Up and Down keys. This would also mean the use of anoth=
er
> > key for jumping.
> >
> > * Butt jump
> >
> >  Ryan already made a simple implementation of this. Currently it destro=
ys
> > the brick in the bottom after a jump and pressing both the Up and Down
> > keys. We still need graphics for it, and also to decide how it will be.=
 I
> > think it should be enabled by keep down pressing after a full jump and =
it
> > would also create a small earthquake in the ground killing enemies in a
> > short distance. Tux would also get stuck for 1.5 second.
> >
> > * Ice flower
> >
> >  In the end of the first world, Tux got the availability of the ice
> > flower...So, we should implement it.
> >  IMHO, it should be a straight fire and the enemy would froze for 3
> > seconds or so, Tux could then kill them or just run away.
> >  I think this should not affect ice enemies... I mean, they are already
> > frozen :D
> >
> >  The hard work will be the creation of graphics for the enemies...
> >
> > * 800x600 resolution
> >
> >  I really would like to go for it, but it would mean a lot of artwork.
> >  We could also just make use of a higher visible area...
> >
> > * Another world
> >
> >  I would go for an industrial world, as Marek suggested.
> >
> > * More bad guys
> >
> >  This is mostly artist work. Coding is pretty simple for this kinda of
> > stuff, graphics are the worse part.
> >
> >
> > Other nice stuff, not really necessary:
> > * Internationalization
> > * Info boxes, as those on Yoshi's and SM World.
> >
> >
> >  Harder work that should go for another release:
> > * sliding, this would be great;
> > * swimming;
> > * bosses;
> > * moving platforms;
> > * certainly there are thousands of other cool stuff.
> >
> >  I would like to see a few flamming about this :)
> >  At least, send a replay to say if you agree or don't.
> >
> > Ricardo Cruz
> >
> >
> > --
> > It's difficult to see the picture when you are inside the frame.
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by Sleepycat Software
> > Learn developer strategies Cisco, Motorola, Ericsson & Lucent use to
> > deliver higher performing products faster, at low TCO.
> > http://www.sleepycat.com/telcomwpreg.php?From=3Dosdnemail3
> > _______________________________________________
> > Super-tux-devel mailing list
> > Sup...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/super-tux-devel
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: Tobias =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gl=3DE4=3DDFer?=3D <tob...@gm...>
> To: sup...@li...
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:22:17 +0200
> Subject: [Super-tux-devel] SuperTux 0.1.1 packages
> Reply-To: sup...@li...
>
> Hi all,
>
> it would be great, if Debian, Mandrake, Redhat, SuSe
> and Gentoo (sorry if I forgot your favourite)
> fan boys, contributed properly packaged
> versions of SuperTux 0.1.1 to the project.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Greetz...
>
> Tobias Gl=C3=A4=C3=9Fer
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Subject: Re: [Super-tux-devel] Next version plans
> From: Keir Lawson <ke...@th...>
> To: sup...@li...
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:01:51 +0100
> Reply-To: sup...@li...
>
> On Wed, 2004-05-12 at 13:36 +0100, Ricardo Cruz wrote:
> > Hey there,
> >
> >  I would like to discuss with you guys the plans for a future version.
> > Here goes my suggestions (highly influenced by those that Ingo described
> > over the webpage: http://super-tux.sourceforge.net/milestone2/index.html
> > ).
> >
> > * Vertical scrolling
> >
> >  Already made, there can be a bug here and there, but it is pretty good.
> >  Now, we only need to make the built-in level editor supporting it...
> > Does FlexLay already supports it?
> >
> > * Auto horizontal scrolling
> >
> >  I believe this is pretty stable by now.
> >  To enable it, just add the line to the level:
> >   (hor_autoscroll_speed 0.5)
> >  Being 0.5 the speed you wish. The velocity is in pixels per the number
> > of frames at defines.h.
> >
> > * Back scrolling
> >
> >  The camera stills needs work. It moves too fast in the beginning what =
is
> > really annoying and distracting.
> >  Anyway, you can already make levels supporting it by adding the
> > following line:
> >   (back_scrolling #t)
> > #t means true and #f false.
> >  Note that you also need to be in debug mode (supertux --debug-mode), in
> > order to enable it!
> >
> > * Smart camera
> >
> >  When the camera movement is improved, we can implement it to show more
> > stuff ahead Tux when he is running.
> >  It should also be possible for Tux to be stuff below and upper when
> > pressing in the Up and Down keys. This would also mean the use of anoth=
er
> > key for jumping.
> >
> > * Butt jump
> >
> >  Ryan already made a simple implementation of this. Currently it destro=
ys
> > the brick in the bottom after a jump and pressing both the Up and Down
> > keys. We still need graphics for it, and also to decide how it will be.=
 I
> > think it should be enabled by keep down pressing after a full jump and =
it
> > would also create a small earthquake in the ground killing enemies in a
> > short distance. Tux would also get stuck for 1.5 second.
> >
> > * Ice flower
> >
> >  In the end of the first world, Tux got the availability of the ice
> > flower...So, we should implement it.
> >  IMHO, it should be a straight fire and the enemy would froze for 3
> > seconds or so, Tux could then kill them or just run away.
> >  I think this should not affect ice enemies... I mean, they are already
> > frozen :D
> >
> >  The hard work will be the creation of graphics for the enemies...
> >
> > * 800x600 resolution
> >
> >  I really would like to go for it, but it would mean a lot of artwork.
> >  We could also just make use of a higher visible area...
> >
> > * Another world
> >
> >  I would go for an industrial world, as Marek suggested.
> >
> > * More bad guys
> >
> >  This is mostly artist work. Coding is pretty simple for this kinda of
> > stuff, graphics are the worse part.
> >
> >
> > Other nice stuff, not really necessary:
> > * Internationalization
> > * Info boxes, as those on Yoshi's and SM World.
> >
> >
> >  Harder work that should go for another release:
> > * sliding, this would be great;
> > * swimming;
> > * bosses;
> > * moving platforms;
> > * certainly there are thousands of other cool stuff.
> >
> >  I would like to see a few flamming about this :)
> >  At least, send a replay to say if you agree or don't.
> >
> > Ricardo Cruz
>
> something to add:
> visible checkpoints: so you actually know when youve passed them, also
> more of a bug but tux should fall down 1 blocks worth holes unless he is
> running, currently he can walk over them easily
>
> Keir Lawson
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> From: Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...>
> To: sup...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Super-tux-devel] gettext, patch
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:25:08 +0100
> Reply-To: sup...@li...
>
>
> Hey Fred,
>
>  I18n support would be pretty cool, but I don't think your patch should be
> applied right now. First, we need to add support for accent letters or el=
se
> it would be useless for every European language...
>  Benjamin, could you work on that? :)
>  Anyway, I'll keep your patch and it will be used later.
>
>  And could you fix that VERSION thing, thx :)
>
> Ricardo Cruz
>
> Em Quarta, 12 de Maio de 2004 14:05, o Frederic Rodrigo escreveu:
> > Hi, happy SuperTux developer.
> >
> > I have done a patch to make ready the source to support gettext. I have
> > add all necessary "_()"; only on message for user (not error message for
> > developer).
> > In order to done this I have done some code modification
> > - edit the leveleditor.cpp to done help more easier to translate
> > - edit some use of VERSION in order to be translatable
> > To have gettext up, anyone can done the gettextize structure.
> >
> > An other thing, the VERSION macro is not fill. But used in the code:
> > for example "supertux --version" don't give the version.
> >
> >
> > Fred.
> > ---
> > http://f.rodrigo.free.fr/
>
> --
> Civilization is fun!  Anyway, it keeps me busy!!
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:07:23 -0600
> From: Ryan Flegel <rf...@gm...>
> To: sup...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Super-tux-devel] Next version plans
> Reply-To: sup...@li...
>
> On Wed, 12 May 2004 15:14:48 +0200, Tobias Gl=3DE4=3DDFer <tobi.web@gmx.d=
e>
> wro=3D
>
> te:
> > The 0.1.x series is for bugfixing only from now on.
> > The 0.2.x versions will be started now and are equivalent to the 0.0.x
> > series (which means, that new features are a top priority).
> > This efforts will result in the 0.3.x series aka 1.0.x.
>
> I like that idea, but it's too bad we can't have odd-numbered
> y-versions to be the experimental tree (like the Linux kernel). For
> example, the "1.0" release will actually be "1.1" when it's stable.
> Maybe we should jump a few numbers now (ie, skip 0.2.x)?
>
> --=3D20
> Ryan
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:15:12 -0600
> From: Ryan Flegel <rf...@gm...>
> To: sup...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Super-tux-devel] Next version plans
> Reply-To: sup...@li...
>
> On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:36:17 +0100, Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> wrote:
> > * Back scrolling
> >
> >  The camera stills needs work. It moves too fast in the beginning what =
is
> > really annoying and distracting.
> >  Anyway, you can already make levels supporting it by adding the
> > following line:
> >   (back_scrolling #t)
> > #t means true and #f false.
> >  Note that you also need to be in debug mode (supertux --debug-mode), in
> > order to enable it!
>
> Actually, I changed that yesterday. The backscroll code is always used
> now so all you have to do is add (back_scrolling #t) to your level
> file to enable it. --debug-mode is no longer required.
>
> > * Butt jump
> >
> >  Ryan already made a simple implementation of this. Currently it destro=
ys
> > the brick in the bottom after a jump and pressing both the Up and Down
> > keys. We still need graphics for it, and also to decide how it will be.=
 I
> > think it should be enabled by keep down pressing after a full jump and =
it
> > would also create a small earthquake in the ground killing enemies in a
> > short distance. Tux would also get stuck for 1.5 second.
>
> Another result of the earthquake could be that the enemies get flipped
> upside down for X seconds (btw, this should probably make spikies
> vulnerable to jump attack). Tux wouldn't get stuck in this case.
>
> > * Ice flower
> >
> >  In the end of the first world, Tux got the availability of the ice
> > flower...So, we should implement it.
> >  IMHO, it should be a straight fire and the enemy would froze for 3
> > seconds or so, Tux could then kill them or just run away.
> >  I think this should not affect ice enemies... I mean, they are already
> > frozen :D
>
> I agree. The frozen enemies should also be kickable like MrIceBlocks.
>
> > * 800x600 resolution
> >
> >  I really would like to go for it, but it would mean a lot of artwork.
> >  We could also just make use of a higher visible area...
>
> Yeah, this would require a lot of work. I think from now one we should
> get 256x256 xcf files from graphic artists. This way we can always
> resize in the future.
>
> > * Another world
> >
> >  I would go for an industrial world, as Marek suggested.
>
> I would personally like to see an tropical forest-type world. It would
> be a nice change from all the snow :)
>
> >  Harder work that should go for another release:
> > * sliding, this would be great;
> > * swimming;
> > * bosses;
> > * moving platforms;
> > * certainly there are thousands of other cool stuff.
>
> I'd like to see moving platforms and bosses in this release.
>
> Another thing (maybe for future releases) is sublevels.
>
> --
> Ryan
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:19:52 +0200
> From: "Benjamin P. Jung" <bp...@gm...>
> To:  sup...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Super-tux-devel] gettext, patch
> Reply-To: sup...@li...
>
> Ricardo Cruz wrote:
> >Hey Fred,
> >
> > I18n support would be pretty cool, but I don't think your patch should =
be
> >applied right now. First, we need to add support for accent letters or
> > else it would be useless for every European language...
> > Benjamin, could you work on that? :)
>
> Sure!
> I don't think I'm going to extend the "old" ATARI style letters since
> that might get very compliated ... we'll see.
> My handwriting on the other hand should be easily extensible ... maybe
> not today but surely tomorrow or the
> day after tomorrow ... :-) Let you know when I can present you with
> first results...
> I'll be going ahead in usual ASCII order, right?
>
> btw,
> did you check-out my new squished flying snowball graphics?!?! -->
> http://www.phreakzone.com/tmp/index.html
> I also did a nice flying platform (yessss... I know: past Milestone2
> stuff it is) and two signs that could be useful for
> decorating levels.
>
>
>
>
> Benjamin
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> From: Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...>
> To: sup...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Super-tux-devel] Next version plans
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:12:27 +0100
> Reply-To: sup...@li...
>
>
>  Please, don't compare the Linux development with the SuperTux one.
>  Besides, now without Ingo, our development speed would drop _a lot_!
>
>  Tobias, are you really considering releasing a 1.0, right after the 0.2?
>
> Ricardo Cruz
>
> Em Quarta, 12 de Maio de 2004 16:07, o Ryan Flegel escreveu:
> > On Wed, 12 May 2004 15:14:48 +0200, Tobias Gl=3DE4=3DDFer <tobi.web@gmx=
=2Ede>
> > w=3D
>
> rote:
> > > The 0.1.x series is for bugfixing only from now on.
> > > The 0.2.x versions will be started now and are equivalent to the 0.0.x
> > > series (which means, that new features are a top priority).
> > > This efforts will result in the 0.3.x series aka 1.0.x.
> >
> > I like that idea, but it's too bad we can't have odd-numbered
> > y-versions to be the experimental tree (like the Linux kernel). For
> > example, the "1.0" release will actually be "1.1" when it's stable.
> > Maybe we should jump a few numbers now (ie, skip 0.2.x)?
>
> =3D2D-=3D20
> Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...>
> To: sup...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Super-tux-devel] Next version plans
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:09:18 +0100
> Reply-To: sup...@li...
>
> Em Quarta, 12 de Maio de 2004 16:15, o Ryan Flegel escreveu:
> > On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:36:17 +0100, Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> wrote:
> > > * Butt jump
> > >
> > >  Ryan already made a simple implementation of this. Currently it
> > > destroys the brick in the bottom after a jump and pressing both the Up
> > > and Down keys. We still need graphics for it, and also to decide how =
it
> > > will be. I think it should be enabled by keep down pressing after a
> > > full jump and it would also create a small earthquake in the ground
> > > killing enemies in a short distance. Tux would also get stuck for 1.5
> > > second.
> >
> > Another result of the earthquake could be that the enemies get flipped
> > upside down for X seconds (btw, this should probably make spikies
> > vulnerable to jump attack). Tux wouldn't get stuck in this case.
>
>  That's a good idea, but I think I would prefer the behavior i described:
> enemies in a short range would be killed and Tux would get stuck with the
> ass in the ground for a couple of seconds (there has to be a cons, right?=
).
>
> > > * Ice flower
> > >
> > >  In the end of the first world, Tux got the availability of the ice
> > > flower...So, we should implement it.
> > >  IMHO, it should be a straight fire and the enemy would froze for 3
> > > seconds or so, Tux could then kill them or just run away.
> > >  I think this should not affect ice enemies... I mean, they are alrea=
dy
> > > frozen :D
> >
> > I agree. The frozen enemies should also be kickable like MrIceBlocks.
>
>  That could be hard to implement. I suggest to make them just immune to i=
t.
>
> > > * 800x600 resolution
> > >
> > >  I really would like to go for it, but it would mean a lot of artwork.
> > >  We could also just make use of a higher visible area...
> >
> > Yeah, this would require a lot of work. I think from now one we should
> > get 256x256 xcf files from graphic artists. This way we can always
> > resize in the future.
>
>  That's just too much to ask...
>
>  Tobias, do you agree with this transition?
>  If yes, what would be better: resizing images (we would have to resize
> without interpolation and then polish them) or just enlarge the visible
> area?
>
> > > * Another world
> > >
> > >  I would go for an industrial world, as Marek suggested.
> >
> > I would personally like to see an tropical forest-type world. It would
> > be a nice change from all the snow :)
>
>  Maybe for a 3rd world... i vote for an industrial one.
>
> > >  Harder work that should go for another release:
> > > * sliding, this would be great;
> > > * swimming;
> > > * bosses;
> > > * moving platforms;
> > > * certainly there are thousands of other cool stuff.
> >
> > I'd like to see moving platforms and bosses in this release.
>
>  I don't see how we will be able to make it. i mean that would require so=
me
> sort of scripting.
>
> > Another thing (maybe for future releases) is sublevels.
>
>  Oh, i forgot that. Maybe we could implement that in time for the next
> release.
>
> Ricardo Cruz
>
> --
> Women sometimes forgive a man who forces the opportunity, but never a man
> who misses one.
> 		-- Charles De Talleyrand-Perigord
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:57:35 -0600
> From: Ryan Flegel <rf...@gm...>
> To: sup...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Super-tux-devel] gettext, patch
> Reply-To: sup...@li...
>
> On Wed, 12 May 2004 18:19:52 +0200, Benjamin P. Jung <bp...@gm...> wro=
te:
> > I don't think I'm going to extend the "old" ATARI style letters since
> > that might get very compliated ... we'll see.
>
> Yeah.. that might get really complicated. Maybe you could make a
> legible small handwritten font? :P I dunno..
>
> > My handwriting on the other hand should be easily extensible ... maybe
> > not today but surely tomorrow or the
> > day after tomorrow ... :-) Let you know when I can present you with
> > first results...
> > I'll be going ahead in usual ASCII order, right?
>
> Well, the accented chars are higher up in ASCII, but yeah. you might
> want to leave blank a few lines of uncessary chars.. or just remove
> those lines altogether.
>
> > btw,
> > did you check-out my new squished flying snowball graphics?!?! -->
>
> Sure did. Committed it to CVS.
>
> > I also did a nice flying platform (yessss... I know: past Milestone2
> > stuff it is) and two signs that could be useful for
> > decorating levels.
>
> I'd like to see the platforms in milestone2 myself.. we'll see.