#49 Divide Lines for the translation

[Templayer]

I can't find an action to divide lines for the translation column.

Use case scenario:

My main subtitle is empty, as that language doesn't need to be translated (it is the one I am translating from). My translation subtitle has a lot of lines of text. I wish to divide them.

The only workaround I found was to CTRL+X the content of the translation, CTRL+V it into the main subtitle, divide it, and then manually cut and paste each thus divided individual subtitle back. That's a bit hardcore.

I wouldn't mind if Divide Lines for the translation was a standalone action with a similar shortcut.

Additional possibility that could be added WITH the one previously stated one, albeit it is a hard one - combined Divided Lines for both the main and the translated subtitle - it should produce a simplified modal window, and if the number of lines is different between the main subtitle and the translated subtitle, it should give out an error stating that the line count must be the same for both for the feature to work.

In that case, we would have:

• Standard divide by lines
• Divide translation by lines
• Combined line division

The combined version would be nice to have, but it isn't required for this Issue per say. The translation division, however, is.

[Kameleon_]

Thanks. Investigating.

[Kameleon_]

The neccessary menuitems and shortcuts will be added in v6.3.3.
Attached a preliminary test version (#20).

[Templayer]

I did some thorough testing and I think I found a glitch.

I think the "Use automatic duration" is confused.

Create a 1 second subtitle. Put "asdasdasd" in the original subtitle (without quotes).
In the translation subtitle, put "1" (push enter for a new line) "2" (again, no quotes).
Enter the modal window for the translation line division. I have set it to CTRL+ALT+D.
When the translation subtitle is made out of two symbols, each on its own line, shouldn't the automatic duration set the split subtitles to 0,5s each for a 1s duration before the split?

For me it created a duration of 0,111s for the first part of the split and 0,887s for the second part of the split.

It seems like for the purpose of automatic duration calculation (and determining subsequent split durations), the original subtitle was concatenated with the second split of the translation subtitle, for some reason. Something wonky is happening there, that's for sure.

[Kameleon_]

I did some thorough testing and I think I found a glitch.
I think the "Use automatic duration" is confused.

Indeed. Investigating...

[Kameleon_]

I wouldn't mind if Divide Lines for the translation was a standalone action with a similar shortcut.
I did some thorough testing and I think I found a glitch.
I think the "Use automatic duration" is confused.

Solved in the attached version (#22)

[Kameleon_]

Additional possibility that could be added WITH the one previously stated one, albeit it is a hard one - combined Divided Lines for both the main and the translated subtitle - it should produce a simplified modal window, and if the number of lines is different between the main subtitle and the translated subtitle, it should give out an error stating that the line count must be the same for both for the feature to work.

In testversion #22: above is not implemented, but this is:
When the subtitle below the one to be splitted is empty, then a new one is not made, but the empty one is filled with part 2 of the split. The timing of that line is not changed however, only the text.
The end result is very less confusing than before, especially in translator mode...

Any thoughts about this? Perhaps this is not good in your case (2 very different orig and translated subtitles).

[Templayer]

What happens when either the orig subtitle OR the translation subtitle as the next item on the subtitle list view is empty on purpose? Which is my case in some places.

This could be an useful feature for some people, but I would require it to be disabled for my purposes.

Maybe this should only happen when the second subtitle has both the orig. and the translation empty. Even then, what is the use case scenario of somebody making that empty subtitle? Just for timing?

Which reminds me - I sometimes tend to say "screw it" and I'll make a lot of completely empty subtitles (i.e. spending my time timing the subtitles without writing anything in them and then filling them up in one go). This method is particulary useful when I need the timing for audio, but there is already some form of hardcoded subtitles (i.e. Kotor dialogues, for example) in the video, where during actually writing down subtitles (CZ and ENG versions) I no longer have to play the footage (double-clicking subtitles, writing down the CZ and EN subs from the screen, double-clicking on the next pair of subtitles, etc.) - if I find a subtitle that is 120+ symbols, I pretty much have to divide them, and if I have a bunch of completely empty subtitle pairs underneath, it is going to take them over.

[Kameleon_]

Yes. Bad idea. Empty line should be left as they are. The used can obviously want them to be present on purpose. He can choose to save them or not anyway.

[Templayer]

Bad idea. Empty line should be left as they are. The used can obviously want them to be present on purpose.

I mean it wouldn't be bad persay to have it, but I think this behaviour it should be disabled by default. Somebody could find that useful one day in a fringe case.

Misa like lots'f options. :3

As can be seen from my examples, I do like to have lots of options in order to optimalize the time spent on it. It usually takes me half of a weekend to do translations (and sometimes the entire weekend or more...), so I like having options - I've been doing this every weekend since I was 15. Today is my 33th birthday. That's A LOT of weekends. :>

Unfortunately, this week I have long shifts (and the next one I am going to have short shifts), so I am still at work - I'll test the split timings for translations when I get home, hopefully.

[Templayer]

I've tested the auto durations.

Seems to be working correctly. Tests were done on both main and translated subtitles, and the opposite part was always filled with stuff so that I would see if the split for translated subtitles was affected by the content of the original subtitle and vice-versa.

[Kameleon_]

I've tested the auto durations.
Seems to be working correctly.

Thanks.

[Kameleon_]

Additional possibility that could be added WITH the one previously stated one, albeit it is a hard one - combined Divided Lines for both the main and the translated subtitle - it should produce a simplified modal window, and if the number of lines is different between the main subtitle and the translated subtitle, it should give out an error stating that the line count must be the same for both for the feature to work.

Have a look at this (#25). The combined window is used in the translator mode, otherwise the other one is used. The automatic time calculations are derived from a combination of the original texts and the translated texts. The division is still in 2 parts only.

[Templayer]

Didn't even get far enough to test it.

New project (without opening a video), added 1 new line 2 new line 3 into the orig subtitles box - this error occurred: ERangeError, TRichEdit mmoTranslation, RangeCheckError.

The automatic time calculations are derived from a combination of the original texts and the translated texts.

Maybe this should be a radio button? Original text, translated text, combined text.

[Kameleon_]

Indeed an error.
I assume you attempted "Divide Lines" to cause the error?

Please check attached version (#28).
Thanks in advance.

[Kameleon_]

The automatic time calculations are derived from a combination of the original texts and the translated texts.

Maybe this should be a radio button? Original text, translated text, combined text.

Do you have a proposal about how to actually do this calculation? Now I am looking to the length ratio of the 2 parts the text will be separated in.
I do take always the largest of the first part (original or translated) and of the 2nd part (original or translated) to calculate that ratio.
Keep in mind that the possibility that only one parts exists (for short original or short translation) or that no parts exist (for empty original or empty translation).
So, sometimes calculation of on only original text or translated text will make no sense...

[Templayer]

So, sometimes calculation of on only original text or translated text will make no sense...

Then the option should be greyed out and deactivated (empty original subtitle, etc.). And if both cannot be chosen, then it should be impossible to trigger the modal (i.e. only "determine based on orig subtitle" with combined OR "determined based on translation subtitle" with combined should be greyed out, with the other one selected (if you are remembering choices then this must be taken into account when a choice is remembered and that option is no longer available)).

I do take always the largest of the first part (original or translated) and of the 2nd part (original or translated) to calculate that ratio.

Sounds good to me for the combined version.
In the orig subtitle ony, this always takes only the orig subtitle when determining that stuff, and it tries to then accomodate the translation accordingly.
Vice versa for translation only.

[Kameleon_]

In the orig subtitle ony, this always takes only the orig subtitle when determining that stuff, and it tries to then accomodate the translation accordingly.

Yes.

Vice versa for translation only.

At this moment the "translation only" does not exist (it existed only in a testversion, after that I implemented the combined divide window and got rid of the translation only possibility).
So, in translation mode the combined divide window is showing, in not translation mode the single divide window is showing.
I think this is the best option to not make the user confused more that he is already.

[Templayer]

At this moment the "translation only" does not exist (it existed only in a testversion, after that I implemented the combined divide window and got rid of the translation only possibility).
So, in translation mode the combined divide window is showing, in not translation mode the single divide window is showing.
I think this is the best option to not make the user confused more that he is already.

I haven't yet seen the combined window (as I get exceptions even before reaching it), so if that is the case, then I hope the combined window has everything the single one has, because I need it for standalone translation subtitles (when there is no orig subtitle).

[Kameleon_]

I haven't yet seen the combined window (as I get exceptions even before reaching it)

In attached version (#29) you should see the combined divide lines window when in translator mode...
Could you test please if exceptions still occur?

[Templayer]

Your combined dialog seems superb. I'll be using it from now on.

No exceptions.

Still, it would be nice to be able to choose if the duration calculation should be based on the orig OR the translation OR the combined way (I can see a use case scenario for all three).

A few very minor bugs occur - when splitting translation subtitles with new lines, the "divide after line number" for the original component is correctly disabled. But that doesn't happen vice versa - if splitting original subtitles THAT HAVE AT LEAST TWO LINE BREAKS (yeah, I can see why this one was overlooked...), the "divide after line number" component for the translated subtitles is not greyed out and the possible numbers are the same as for original subtitle, even though the translation subtitle is empty.

Another bug is that the combined Divide Lines dialog has cut time boxes visually (this may be also in the original Divide Lines dialog, but it only happens now because of the bigger width of the dialog). This could be solved by making the margin between the original text boxes and translated text boxes nondynamic. Currently, the space between the orig and translation text boxes scales together with the width of the window, so there is a huge gap there if resized enough. Making the gap between them static should solve the time boxes clipping issue as well, as more space will be automatically allocated to them when resizing the window.

The secondary Divide after line nur... is cut by the window boundary.

I'll make a printscreen with highlights.

[Kameleon_]

Good to hear it works.
Thanks for your suggestions. I will have a look tomorrow.

[Kameleon_]

Still, it would be nice to be able to choose if the duration calculation should be based on the orig OR the translation OR the combined way (I can see a use case scenario for all three).

Implemented in this testversion (#30). Also the spacing problem and the enabling of the division selector with empty subtitles should be solved.