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Re: [Springframework-developer] Thanks to all the Spring developers
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From: Lars F. <lar...@gm...> - 2003-08-28 22:06:45
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Rob and Rod :-) see below > First and foremost more, better, free(hopefully) documentation, preferably > as a PDF so it can be printed. Your book is excellent, and well worth the > price and I haven't even finished it. (I've been swamped with stuff so I > am only at the beginning of chapter 7, so I haven't even gotten to the > juicy stuff.) But, having to read a 680 page book in order to use a framework > sucks. You can use the book without the framework and the framework without the book. The framework outlined in the book is for the implementation part but I agree that the book helps understanding the core concepts of Spring. > Even worse is that the framework has evolved since the time the book was > printed (it doesn't cover hibernate, etc). As time goes on I am sure the > book, and the development of the framework will diverge even more. A PDF > available on the website could be kept up to date as the project evolves and > always be a valuable resource for newbies to the framework, or a good > reference for those who have been using it for a while. IMO every book about software technology is outdated the day it is released. I would be sad if the framework didn't evolve in the meantime. A PDF would be great but this should be no problem once the documentation is ready. > I would definetly recommend creating the doc in PDF format because it is > much easier to read / digest offline, and can act as a good resource when > internet access is not available. HTML never prints nicely, even pages that > are "printer friendly". The PDF docs available from the Hibernate project > are excellent examples of quality free documentation for a project. I agree, the whole Hibernate project is an excellent example how software projects should be handled and it might even kill companies like the producers of CocoBase. > I think a quality set of documentation with some good examples would go > along way in making the use / understanding of Spring much easier. It would > also help the frameworks user base grow. Again, your book is worth every > cent, and I highly recommend everyone get it, but not everyone is willing to > (or can) shell out $60 for a book on every framework and technology they > are trying out or considering for use. We should not forget that Spring is beta and documentation will grow as time goes by and the user base grows. For many frameworks there isn't any book at all (so it could be worse). I think the tutorial is very important - new users should get started very fast without having to try for hours to get the whole thing working. There is a lot of documentation (even in the source) which is great but sometimes I think it's too abstract to get an immediate result. My wishlist: - One big example showing all the stuff at enterprise level - Many small examples where you can lookup specific things (this is one point where WebWork 1 is great). I would like to have examples for Hibernate and several of the template classes. - The examples should reflect the skeletons (Petclinic doesn't use transactions and so on) - One thing I don't like is this XML hell (just like in EJBs) . The sad thing is I don't know how to do it better. For a web application there are many things you have to configure (several resolvers, etc.). This is where WebWork (1) is much easier to understand. > A second reason to provide quality docs is it reflects well on the > project. I investigated Hibernate and Object Bridge. Eventually I decided that > Hibernate was the way to go (for many many reasons). But what immediately > impressed me with the Hibernate project was the quality of its > documentation. I immediately felt that the project was going to be high in quality > because the time, effort and quality of the (free) documentation was very high. > > > Also consider that there are many other frameworks around on the net, all > of them just a click away. Sometimes you only have a few precious seconds > to impress a potential user before they click onto the next project. Other > frameworks like Struts have an abundance of free documentation and > tutorials as articles on a variety of websites. Plus Struts has a variety of > books available too. These are even more reasons to create high quality > documentation for spring in addition to your existing book. I don't know any framework comparable to Spring. Many of them are only MVC frameworks and can't be compared to Spring. Others are proprietary, expensive or just not good enough. I cannot say anything about Struts because I never used it for technical reasons. How is the quality of the books ? 8 out of 10 computer books are just reflections of APIs and this is where Rod's book (and Spring) is different. All the users can help Spring improve because Spring developers care about the given input. And that's a key to success ... Regards Lars > > > > From: "Rod Johnson" <rod...@in...> > > Date: 2003/08/28 Thu PM 03:34:50 EDT > > To: "Lars Fischer" <lar...@gm...>, > > <spr...@li...> > > Subject: Re: [Springframework-developer] Thanks to all the Spring > developers > > > > Lars, > > > > Thanks for your kind words. > > > > Regarding the learning curve, any suggestions on what we can do to make > > Spring easier to learn are welcome. I don't think Spring is inherently > > complex, although it does do a lot. But I do appreciate that getting to > > grips with it--especially in combination with other products such as > > Hibernate--may be a challenge, and I want to try to change that. > > > > Regards, > > Rod > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lars Fischer" <lar...@gm...> > > To: <spr...@li...> > > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 8:12 PM > > Subject: [Springframework-developer] Thanks to all the Spring developers > > > > > > > This is a message to all Spring developers and potential users of > Spring. > > > > > > This week I've managed to get a first prototype with Spring and > Hibernate > > > (two completely new technologies for me) working. The biggest problem > > > was to get the configuration working (and a 'little' WebLogic > problem). > > > > > > Spring has a high learning curve at the beginning because it's a full > > > featured > > > framework for nearly all your needs. > > > > > > If you are willing to invest some time and get things working you will > > > understand > > > more and more what it's all about. > > > > > > Spring can help you to get rid of all these annoying problems with > EJBs > > and > > > the related patterns only used to avoid performance problems. And > despite > > > the > > > fact that the learning curve maybe high, you just have to learn ONE > > > framework. > > > > > > If you want to keep existing technologies Spring is fine too (just use > > > the needed parts). > > > > > > As a result of my experriences I can highly recommend the use of the > > Spring > > > framework, for me this is an outstanding peace of software with > > > outstanding developers. > > > > > > In the past year I've developed a larger application with EJBs. It's > > working > > > very well (emtremely fast, scalable and stable). Today I'd use Spring > > which > > > is > > > much more elegant and makes you independant of the application server > > > vendor. > > > > > > If someone reading this is in the situation of deciding whether to use > > > Spring or > > > not, my recommandation is to give it a try and you won't be > disappointed ! > > > > > > My thanks go to all Spring developers for providing such a great > framework > > ! > > > > > > Regards > > > Lars > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > > > Welcome to geek heaven. > > > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Springframework-developer mailing list > > > Spr...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > > Welcome to geek heaven. > > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > > _______________________________________________ > > Springframework-developer mailing list > > Spr...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer > > > |
