RE: [Springframework-developer] EBJ 3 and J2EE 1.5

[Jeff B. <jb...@ds...>]

> EJB was never meant to run outside of a non-ejb container. <

Hum... but you are mixing specification with implementation. 


> You can still use Hibernate for that anyways so who really cares? If
you chose to use EJB then you've chosen to run in container. If you
don't want to then it's very simple.. don't use EJBs. <

Why is one approach a Java Specification while the other one is not?
What so magically about the EJB approach that it has it's own [container
implementation] specification?

Jeff W. Boring
Impulse Point
jb...@im...
 


-----Original Message-----
From: spr...@li...
[mailto:spr...@li...] On Behalf
Of Tim Chen
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 3:56 PM
To: spr...@li...
Subject: Re: [Springframework-developer] EBJ 3 and J2EE 1.5


Jurgen's post quotes:
"And there hasn't been a single credit to Spring and co in Linda's 
talk... (but lots and lots of credits to Hibernate)."
Of course there is no credit to Spring. Why should there be? The main
part of the EJB->Hibernate->EJB 3.0 and EJB 3.0 discussions 
were centered around it's Entity Bean solution.
Particularly CMP.

"Spring's main aim is to make J2EE easier to use and promote good 
programming practice." *
It does this by being a POJO/Dependency Injector container. And it does 
it very well. (Otherwise we wouldnt be using it ;)

"Hibernate is a powerful, ultra-high performance object/relational 
persistence and query service for Java." **
Given that, EJB (at least from the entity side) is closer to Hibernate 
than Spring.
EJB is NOT a container.

"There's a strong difference in terms of flexibility of deployment: EJB 
3 can by design never match Spring's capability of adapting to all sorts

of environments, even if adopting the same development model." Again.
Why should it?! EJB was never meant to run outside of a non-ejb 
container. You can still use Hibernate for that anyways so who really 
cares? If you chose to use EJB then you've chosen to run in container. 
If you don't want to then it's very simple.. don't use EJBs.

"Why oh why does this have to be part of the EJB spec? Why not doing a 
separate O/R mapping spec - no matter if within or outsider the JDO 
scope? There's no technical reason for tying this to an EJB container" I
completely disagree. BMP/CMP/EJB has been getting a bad rap for a 
while now due to it's performance issues. It was in fact just plain 
garbage in most cases. So why not fix it? Why create a whole new spec 
and leave the other one in its state? What good does that do anyone?

"It is not good enough to have some EJB 3 EntityManager implementations 
that can run outside an EJB container. It's still part of the EJB spec, 
not allowing certification for anything but a complete EJB container 
implementation (which includes the entire EJB 2 model)."
I agree with that one. Backwards compatibility with something that was 
intrinsically broken is just a bad idea.

-Tim

* http://www.theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=SpringFramework
** http://www.hibernate.org/

Jeff Boring wrote:

> I agree with most of Juergen's comments about EJB 3
> (http://blog.hibernate.org/cgi-bin/pollxn.cgi?storypath=/Gavin 
> King/ejb3.html).
> I'd like to see:
> 1) Gavin's response
> 2) Juergen and/or Rod join JSR 244
> Has anyone talked with Gavin (Juergen/Rod?) about this. Can you 
> provide a synopsis of what he said? I'd like to believe that he has 
> not completely gone over to the dark side :).
> Politics aside, somebody representing this point of view still needs 
> to contribute. We all know that most of what we want will currently be

> vetoed by the big vendors. However, we should still try and fight for 
> what we can get. Rod is the most qualified from what I know. Rod, can 
> you let us know what is going on in this area? Is there something some

> of us could do to support you in this effort?
> Jeff W. Boring
> Impulse Point




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