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From: Chris N. <pu...@po...> - 2000-12-11 16:53:38
|
At 20:09 -0800 2000.12.09, Rael Dornfest wrote: >First, I should apologise for my delayed response on this -- bad, bad >procmail! :) >On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Chris Nandor wrote: > >> OK, here is a list of the data for stories that we have available, >> that we might want to put in to RSS 1.0 files. I listed pretty much >> all the data for stories, and just a few things for site. Comments >> welcome. > >Chris, could you provide a dump of a typical record so as to see what type >of data is in each of these fields? OK, given below with the data. >What further constraints are >there in terms of what fields are likely to / will always / will _not_ >appear together? For example, will there ever be a case when topic and >section are both appropriate? Which fields have constrained possible >values? There is always a topic and a section. >> The purpose of this is to put these items into available RSS fields, >> either in the RSS core in Dublin Core, or in our own Slash XML module. > >Aside from title, link, and description (corresponding to title, url, >introtext, I believe) nothing else goes into the core as far as items are >concerned. As for Dublin Core, there are various possible mappings you >can do; for example: topic or section or a combinaton of the two in >dc:subject, author in dc:creator, date in dc:date ... see my sample >Slashcode RSS 1.0 document example below. OK. >> >From here, we could then move on to defining fields for comments >> and users, and any other data we want to search on, for the purpose >> of returning search data to users and to any other searches we want >> to enable. > >You need to determine what's necessary/useful from the rest of the fields, >and it makes sense at least initially to put these into a slashcode module >... again, see my sample below. At some point you might find that a >more generalised module exists to house some of this, but that's not the >case right now. Fact is that widespread use of an ad-hoc module will >heavily influence any such generalised module. Yeah, we could either try to come up with a "Slash" module, or some more general module. >Ok, so first a little mapping between the fields you've provided and >the RSS core (rss), Dublin Core (dc), and Syndication (syn) modules, >and a made-up Slashcode (slash) module... > >> site >> ---- >> URL rss:channel->rss:link http://slashdot.org/ >> name rss:channel->rss:title Slashdot >> language rss:channel->dc:language en-us >> slogan (description) rss:channel->rss:description News for Nerds. Stuff that matters. >> contact email rss:channel->dc:creator so...@sl... >> stories >> ------- I'll list three stories' worth of data for examples. >> URL (story ID) rss:item->rss:link http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/12/11/152211 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/12/09/2329239 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/12/09/1933249 >> title rss:item->rss:title New P2P tool Using... IRC? Gifts For Geeks Could Tesla's Broadcast Power System Work? >> author rss:item->dc:creator Hemos CmdrTaco Cliff >> section rss:item->dc:subject articles features askslashdot >> topic rss:item->dc:subject (either/or/combined) internet xmas news >> department rss:item->slash:department interesting-idea cheesy-alliteration-is-where-it's-at relevant-ideas-from-one-of-science's-greatest >> number of comments rss:item->slash:comments 86 184 28 >> date rss:item->dc:date 2000-12-11 15:11:51 2000-12-11 11:06:02 2000-12-10 23:01:49 >> other (probably not useful, or should not be included): As noted, I probably would not want any of the below included, but added in all the story data we have just for kicks, in case I missed something. >> introtext rss:item->rss:description >> bodytext (more content than metadata, but up to you) Technically, introtext is not necessarily metadata either. introtext is what appears on the main page, which may be the entire text of the story. >> writestatus what is this? This is a flag determining whether a new static page should be written out (the story has been changed since last time a static page has been written). >> hits rss:item->slash:hits How many hits the story has received. >> displaystatus what is this? Whether the story should be displayed on the home page, in a particular section, or not at all. >> commentstatus what is this? Whether comments can be posted. Not used. >> hitparade what is this? A list of how many comments at each "score" level. So for "86,58,37,18,5,4,2", that would mean there are 86 total comments, 58 comments with scores of 0 and up, 37 1 and up, 18 2, 5 3, 4 4, and 2 at 5 and up. This is the info you see when you are in a story and you click the Threshold popup menu. >> relatedtext sounds interesting... what is it? This is for the "Related Links" box next to a story. >> extratext sounds interesting... what is it? This is not really used. >I'm afraid I don't know what some of the above are or how useful they >would be, but they'd probably be best in a Slashcode module if deemed >useful/interesting. I don't think any of them would be too useful or interesting -- or we just would not want to give out that information -- with the _possible_ exception of hitparade. >If section and story are mutually exclusive, then have the appropriate >one be dc:subject. If they co-occur, have the most descriptive one >be dc:subject and the one more for internal use by slash:{topic/section}. Well, topic is the most descriptive. Section is more for stuff like "Ask Slashdot", where you can have separate sections on the site. Topic is what is more like Subject. >The following sample template uses ${} to indicate the fields I've slotted >in as mapped above... > ><?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> ><rdf:RDF > xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" > xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" > xmlns:slash="http://slashcode.net/rss/elements/1.0/" > xmlns="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/" >> > > <channel rdf:about="${site_url}"> > <title>${site_name}</title> > <link>${site_url}</link> > <description>${site_slogan}</description> > <dc:rights>Copyright 2000, ${site_name}</dc:rights> > <dc:creator>${site_contact_email}</dc:publisher> > <dc:publisher>${site_name}</dc:publisher> Actually, this would probably be "OSDN" in the case of Slashdot, since OSDN is the publisher of the site. > <dc:language>${site_language}</dc:language> > > <items> > <rdf:Seq> > <rdf:li rdf:resource="${story_url}" /> > ... > <rdf:li rdf:resource="${story_url}" /> > </rdf:Seq> > </items> So <items> lists the individual items which are then described further below? > </channel> > > <item rdf:about="${story_url}"> > <title>${story_title}</title> > <link>${story_url}</link> > <description>${story_intro_text}</description> Yeah, since in the case of Slashdot we don't want to give this text away, we would probably at most give the first $n words or something. But probably, we won't put this in at all, and just rely on section/topic/department. > <dc:creator>${story_author}</dc:creator> > <dc:subject>${story_section}: ${story_topic}</dc:subject> Perhaps: <dc:subject>${story_topic}</dc:subject> <slash:section>${story_section}</slash:section> > <dc:language>${story/site_language}</dc:language> Right now, we just have site language support. > <dc:date>${story-date}</dc:date> > <dc:format>text/html</dc:format> > <slash:department>${story_department}</slash:department> > <slash:comments>${story_number_of_comments}</slash:comments> > <slash:hits>${story_hits}</slash:hits> Yeah, we won't put hits in, that's private data. > ... > </item> > > ... > ></rdf:RDF> > >Again, a template will be much easier to refine with a sample record or >three from your database. And, of course, quite a bit of this needs >only a little artistic license. > >Hope this provides a useful start. Yes, it does. I think what you've given us helps a lot. We need XML::RSS to support 1.0 of course, but we also need to find a way to tell the RSS what each topic (subject) and section means. How does that work? Do we create some document that describes the possible sections and topics? -- Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ |
From: Patrick G. <cap...@sl...> - 2000-12-10 17:21:49
|
Brian Aker wrote: > elijah wright wrote: > > [a side-thought; i'm only subscribed to this one list. should i be > > brainstorming somewhere else? or is this a tolerable place for that?] > That is exactly what this list is for. > > > feedback on my ranting from earlier this afternoon :) i really like > > slashdot but i need it to do some more stuff.... *grin* i eventually > > want to use it as a discussion forum for my students, but it needs a bit > > more fine-grained tuning before it'll serve as i like :) I don't think the stories being posted based upon users "moderating" or "voting" the story as being visible will necessarily necessitate a plugin. Well, if one were to make submissions a plugin, and modify it to allow some sort of voting of approval. I'm not sure. This needs to be explained in further detail though, as it involves the story submission process, moderation, and abuse protection (as well as other things I'm not even considering). If something like this is to happen, it'd be best to make use of the people on this list to perhaps come up with ideas for implementing this feature. I would however like to say that we're trying to get bender released, and right now we're in the stage of bug and performance testing, and any additional features should wait until the code is released. I'm also not sure if this feature is being thought of as being implemented with MAIN or Bender. If anything like this is to happen, it should be based upon Bender, as that's the codebase that will accomodate any sort of plugins or modifications, as that will soon be the current codebase within a month or so. > > In my list of plugins, Malda has a request in for discussions that > are not linked to stories. What features were you looking for? > Somewhere also in my list is a comment plugin that is not linked > to stories. > This is already the case in the current codebase. You just have to create a discussion by going to comments.pl with a "made-up" sid, that discussion is then created, which is then listed in a full list of current discussions which can be viewed upon loading comments.pl without an sid. Maybe I'm not thinking about the same thing. :) > > > is there a forum where people post things they'd eventually like to see a > > slash-like system do? i occasionally have a wacky plugin idea or > > something and it'd be nice to be able to do something with it other than > > just sit on it and hope i get un-busy eventually.. > This is the place for bringing up plugins. When I get a chance I will be > putting up a plugin registry on slashcode.com. > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Slashcode-development mailing list > Sla...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/slashcode-development -- Patrick Galbraith Open Source Development Network Senior Software Developer 50 Nagog Park Slash Code Development Team Acton, MA 01720 "Energy and Persistence conquer all things". Benjamin Franklin |
From: Rael D. <ra...@or...> - 2000-12-10 08:08:53
|
Howdy, While there are other possible uses being bandied about, for the most part beyond my ken (search, replication, etc.), the primary history is this... As you probably know, Slashcode currently affords a Slashsite the ability to provide an XML document containing the titles and descriptions of current stories for syndication, like so: <item> <title>Will Linux Save Microsoft?</title> <link>http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/12/09/1840253</link> </item> This format is known as RSS 0.9. A newer, more modular version of RSS now exists, RSS 1.0 (http://purl.org/rss/1.0/), allowing for a) more information to be disseminated from the Slashcode database and b) modular extension of the feed to include Slashcode specific data, like so: <item rdf:about="http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/12/09/1840253"> <title>Will Linux Save Microsoft?</title> <link>http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/12/09/1840253</link> <description> Chait writes "Check this article out looks interesting! Will Linux Save Microsoft? " Its a fairly logical piece, and certainly not saying anything that any of us haven't thought about. My opinion has always been that as long as the source stays open, I don't care, but it'll definitely be interesting to see what happens. </description> <dc:creator>CmdrTaco</dc:creator> <dc:subject>microsoft</dc:subject> <dc:language>en-us</dc:language> <dc:date>2000-12-09T12:39</dc:date> <dc:format>text/html</dc:format> <slash:department> as-long-as-they-don't-close-the-source-who-cares? </slash:department> <slash:comments>301</slash:comments> </item> Now why would you want to do this? 1. It's incredibly useful to aggregators, websites, et al in order to allow the routing of the appropriate stories to the appropriate places (read: eyeballs). This brings the Slashsite more hits from more folks who would be the most interested. 2. For searches, replication, and countless other data-sharing reasons, bith intra- and inter-site. 3. Why not provide all the information at your disposal -- at least the bits you don't mind sharing? I hope this helps. Rael On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 con...@ho... wrote: > i just got on the list. mind giving me a little history on this request so i > can get my mind cranking in the right direction? > > ciao, > k > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Nandor" <pu...@po...> > To: <sla...@li...> > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:17 AM > Subject: [Slashcode-development] RSS 1.0 > > > > OK, here is a list of the data for stories that we have available, > > that we might want to put in to RSS 1.0 files. I listed pretty much > > all the data for stories, and just a few things for site. Comments > > welcome. > > > > The purpose of this is to put these items into available RSS fields, > > either in the RSS core in Dublin Core, or in our own Slash XML module. > > > > From here, we could then move on to defining fields for comments > > and users, and any other data we want to search on, for the purpose > > of returning search data to users and to any other searches we want > > to enable. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Rael Dornfest ra...@or... Maven, http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael The O'Reilly Network http://meerkat.oreillynet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ |
From: Brian A. <br...@ta...> - 2000-12-10 05:49:45
|
elijah wright wrote: > [a side-thought; i'm only subscribed to this one list. should i be > brainstorming somewhere else? or is this a tolerable place for that?] That is exactly what this list is for. > feedback on my ranting from earlier this afternoon :) i really like > slashdot but i need it to do some more stuff.... *grin* i eventually > want to use it as a discussion forum for my students, but it needs a bit > more fine-grained tuning before it'll serve as i like :) In my list of plugins, Malda has a request in for discussions that are not linked to stories. What features were you looking for? Somewhere also in my list is a comment plugin that is not linked to stories. > is there a forum where people post things they'd eventually like to see a > slash-like system do? i occasionally have a wacky plugin idea or > something and it'd be nice to be able to do something with it other than > just sit on it and hope i get un-busy eventually.. This is the place for bringing up plugins. When I get a chance I will be putting up a plugin registry on slashcode.com. -Brian |
From: Rael D. <ra...@or...> - 2000-12-10 04:09:53
|
Howdy, First, I should apologise for my delayed response on this -- bad, bad procmail! On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Chris Nandor wrote: > OK, here is a list of the data for stories that we have available, > that we might want to put in to RSS 1.0 files. I listed pretty much > all the data for stories, and just a few things for site. Comments > welcome. Chris, could you provide a dump of a typical record so as to see what type of data is in each of these fields? What further constraints are there in terms of what fields are likely to / will always / will _not_ appear together? For example, will there ever be a case when topic and section are both appropriate? Which fields have constrained possible values? > The purpose of this is to put these items into available RSS fields, > either in the RSS core in Dublin Core, or in our own Slash XML module. Aside from title, link, and description (corresponding to title, url, introtext, I believe) nothing else goes into the core as far as items are concerned. As for Dublin Core, there are various possible mappings you can do; for example: topic or section or a combinaton of the two in dc:subject, author in dc:creator, date in dc:date ... see my sample Slashcode RSS 1.0 document example below. > >From here, we could then move on to defining fields for comments > and users, and any other data we want to search on, for the purpose > of returning search data to users and to any other searches we want > to enable. You need to determine what's necessary/useful from the rest of the fields, and it makes sense at least initially to put these into a slashcode module ... again, see my sample below. At some point you might find that a more generalised module exists to house some of this, but that's not the case right now. Fact is that widespread use of an ad-hoc module will heavily influence any such generalised module. --- Ok, so first a little mapping between the fields you've provided and the RSS core (rss), Dublin Core (dc), and Syndication (syn) modules, and a made-up Slashcode (slash) module... > site > ---- > URL rss:channel->rss:link > name rss:channel->rss:title > language rss:channel->dc:language > slogan (description) rss:channel->rss:description > contact email rss:channel->dc:creator > stories > ------- > URL (story ID) rss:item->rss:link > title rss:item->rss:title > author rss:item->dc:creator > section rss:item->dc:subject > topic rss:item->dc:subject (either/or/combined) > department rss:item->slash:department > number of comments rss:item->slash:comments > date rss:item->dc:date > other (probably not useful, or should not be included): > introtext rss:item->rss:description > bodytext (more content than metadata, but up to you) > writestatus what is this? > hits rss:item->slash:hits > displaystatus what is this? > commentstatus what is this? > hitparade what is this? > relatedtext sounds interesting... what is it? > extratext sounds interesting... what is it? I'm afraid I don't know what some of the above are or how useful they would be, but they'd probably be best in a Slashcode module if deemed useful/interesting. If section and story are mutually exclusive, then have the appropriate one be dc:subject. If they co-occur, have the most descriptive one be dc:subject and the one more for internal use by slash:{topic/section}. --- The following sample template uses ${} to indicate the fields I've slotted in as mapped above... <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:slash="http://slashcode.net/rss/elements/1.0/" xmlns="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/" > <channel rdf:about="${site_url}"> <title>${site_name}</title> <link>${site_url}</link> <description>${site_slogan}</description> <dc:rights>Copyright 2000, ${site_name}</dc:rights> <dc:creator>${site_contact_email}</dc:publisher> <dc:publisher>${site_name}</dc:publisher> <dc:language>${site_language}</dc:language> <items> <rdf:Seq> <rdf:li rdf:resource="${story_url}" /> ... <rdf:li rdf:resource="${story_url}" /> </rdf:Seq> </items> </channel> <item rdf:about="${story_url}"> <title>${story_title}</title> <link>${story_url}</link> <description>${story_intro_text}</description> <dc:creator>${story_author}</dc:creator> <dc:subject>${story_section}: ${story_topic}</dc:subject> <dc:language>${story/site_language}</dc:language> <dc:date>${story-date}</dc:date> <dc:format>text/html</dc:format> <slash:department>${story_department}</slash:department> <slash:comments>${story_number_of_comments}</slash:comments> <slash:hits>${story_hits}</slash:hits> ... </item> ... </rdf:RDF> Again, a template will be much easier to refine with a sample record or three from your database. And, of course, quite a bit of this needs only a little artistic license. Hope this provides a useful start. Rael ------------------------------------------------------------------ Rael Dornfest ra...@or... Maven, http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael The O'Reilly Network http://meerkat.oreillynet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ |
From: elijah w. <el...@st...> - 2000-12-10 03:01:24
|
> Yeah, I don't know about that. Kinda seems redundant in my opinion. I > really would not like to see my slash site spammed with all that > Usenet crap that gets posted (IE: Porn and stuff) yeah. its pretty easy to set up a private group, though... for larger orgs hosting many smaller groups under their umbrella, though (like universities; mine already has listservs on a per-course basis and everything stored in LDAP campus-wide...) this kind of yummy goodness makes a solution very efficient and appealing :) > Do you mean like filtering out comments by certain posters? Is that > what your getting at? That might be an idea, or perhaps being able to > filter out Trolls and stuff would be good too. Of course, that would > only be available for articles that haven't been dumped out of the > database yet (IE: still able to comment on). not what i meant, but its a good idea :) * let the user establish regexes for articles that automatically get dumped. killfiles, basically. i was more or less suggesting a clicky-box to dump an article into a different queue as inappropriate. > I know there are times I'd like to filter out some of the crap in > comments to get to the meat. Like a lot of the stuff on Slashdot > lately has been unrelated to the articles, especially the 20-30 first > post people...... i hate those :) (sometimes i think anything with ' fp' anywhere in it should get sh*tcanned... i can't think of any words in english with that string in them..) > > how about a moderate-up-a-random-story button that selects from the > > stories with at least minimum_number of positive votes? :) > > Yeah, well, I kinda like the idea of the stories I see are "human" > approved. Kind of organizes the discussions. yep :) > I'm a little confused as to why you'd want that........seems a lot of > work for something that might not really be all that useful....... oh, the random story approval button was just a whiz-bang idea that might be kind of cute- i wasn't taking it seriously :) > Well, when this "Bender" thing is more stable I'd love to add some > stuff to it, but right now........I'm scared. I like my 1.0.9 setup, > and I've tweaked it, and am going to tweak it a little more to do the > submission thing I mentioned. hehehehehehe :) > Perhaps someone should write a PLUGIN WISH LIST or something on > slashcode so people can write what they'd like to see Bender > do......... if someone would just post a story with that as the title so we can muckity-muck around in a thread there? * plugin idea: i want to see a plugin/system implemented where i can get posts to a thread via email or via digests at regular intervals/size increments ~elijah |
From: Eric D. <eri...@ja...> - 2000-12-10 02:46:56
|
elijah wright wrote: > what i really had in mind wrt nntp was the ability to accept story > submissions via newsgroup crossposting. basically, to make it really easy > to tie a web frontend to a newsgroup and have selected things migrate out > of the NNTP backend and into the mysql||postgres db. it might be just as > productive if someone wrote an NNTP+LDAP backend to run alongside slash... > but i'm not volunteering for that :) > Yeah, I don't know about that. Kinda seems redundant in my opinion. I really would not like to see my slash site spammed with all that Usenet crap that gets posted (IE: Porn and stuff) > thanks. next clarification: i'd like to have the administratievly > overridden entries stashed somewhere that the users can still get at them > if they want. obviously there's likely to be a huge mess of such posts; > perhaps use a configurable threshold of space wasted by natalie portman > and grits posts? 10mb or 2500 posts sound like a reasonable backlog? or > is that too much? (10MB is peanuts these days, imho...) it'll take a > hell of a long time before anyone comes close to that with a smallish site > :) Do you mean like filtering out comments by certain posters? Is that what your getting at? That might be an idea, or perhaps being able to filter out Trolls and stuff would be good too. Of course, that would only be available for articles that haven't been dumped out of the database yet (IE: still able to comment on). I know there are times I'd like to filter out some of the crap in comments to get to the meat. Like a lot of the stuff on Slashdot lately has been unrelated to the articles, especially the 20-30 first post people...... > well, botted posts hit kuro5hin pretty hard last summer. that was sad. > > if story-moderations are not random-selection based (like the slashdot > comment modding) then there needs to be a facility to make sure that an > individual doesn't multiply moderate the story in the queue. i personally > think it'd be pretty cool to be able to go to the story queue page, see > what's there (as a logged in user, probably) and then vote up everything i > thought was worth seeing. > > another brief idea- maybe story moderation is something that some admins > might want to restrict to either logged in users or a subset > usergroup. that probably needs to be settable with little > trouble. slashdot, having an established troll community, probably > wouldn't be able to do mass-open-moderation on its story queue. other > sites might, though. > > authenticated users should always be weighted more heavily than anonymous > users, imho. maybe that threshold needs to be an algorithm with a tunable > constant for teh difference. set it to zero to turn it off, perhaps? > > how about a moderate-up-a-random-story button that selects from the > stories with at least minimum_number of positive votes? :) > Yeah, well, I kinda like the idea of the stories I see are "human" approved. Kind of organizes the discussions. I'm a little confused as to why you'd want that........seems a lot of work for something that might not really be all that useful....... > i think that's a really cool idea. and i appreciate your positive > feedback on my ranting from earlier this afternoon :) i really like > slashdot but i need it to do some more stuff.... *grin* i eventually > want to use it as a discussion forum for my students, but it needs a bit > more fine-grained tuning before it'll serve as i like :) > Well, when this "Bender" thing is more stable I'd love to add some stuff to it, but right now........I'm scared. I like my 1.0.9 setup, and I've tweaked it, and am going to tweak it a little more to do the submission thing I mentioned. > is that extra data stuff something that could be done template-style? I don't think so. Doesn't look like it. It seems fairly easy to do. I just need to sit down and do it......... > is there a forum where people post things they'd eventually like to see a > slash-like system do? i occasionally have a wacky plugin idea or > something and it'd be nice to be able to do something with it other than > just sit on it and hope i get un-busy eventually.. Perhaps someone should write a PLUGIN WISH LIST or something on slashcode so people can write what they'd like to see Bender do......... |
From: elijah w. <el...@st...> - 2000-12-09 22:18:59
|
> > in the absence of that, however, here are some ideas: > > * submission method modularization (email, http, nntp linkages) > Um, email submission might be a cool idea.... now that i am not rushing to take garbage to the trash dump (i'm at my parent's house for the holidays and their garbageman doesn't like large non-household-trash like Dell boxes... what i really had in mind wrt nntp was the ability to accept story submissions via newsgroup crossposting. basically, to make it really easy to tie a web frontend to a newsgroup and have selected things migrate out of the NNTP backend and into the mysql||postgres db. it might be just as productive if someone wrote an NNTP+LDAP backend to run alongside slash... but i'm not volunteering for that :) > > * administrative override (so that the trolls don't mod up a story as a > > prank) > Great idea thanks. next clarification: i'd like to have the administratievly overridden entries stashed somewhere that the users can still get at them if they want. obviously there's likely to be a huge mess of such posts; perhaps use a configurable threshold of space wasted by natalie portman and grits posts? 10mb or 2500 posts sound like a reasonable backlog? or is that too much? (10MB is peanuts these days, imho...) it'll take a hell of a long time before anyone comes close to that with a smallish site :) > > * settable limits on the speed with which a story can be modded up before > > an automated mechanism decides a bot is doing the modding; logging > > of accounts used in this fashion > > Is that really a problem? I think the logging of story moderations by users is a > good idea. well, botted posts hit kuro5hin pretty hard last summer. that was sad. if story-moderations are not random-selection based (like the slashdot comment modding) then there needs to be a facility to make sure that an individual doesn't multiply moderate the story in the queue. i personally think it'd be pretty cool to be able to go to the story queue page, see what's there (as a logged in user, probably) and then vote up everything i thought was worth seeing. another brief idea- maybe story moderation is something that some admins might want to restrict to either logged in users or a subset usergroup. that probably needs to be settable with little trouble. slashdot, having an established troll community, probably wouldn't be able to do mass-open-moderation on its story queue. other sites might, though. authenticated users should always be weighted more heavily than anonymous users, imho. maybe that threshold needs to be an algorithm with a tunable constant for teh difference. set it to zero to turn it off, perhaps? how about a moderate-up-a-random-story button that selects from the stories with at least minimum_number of positive votes? :) > > * graphing of story-submitters and frequency (libgd-perl is your friend) > Hmm.........another good idea someone could probably gut MRTG or simply rig it up to do this. that might be a good project even outside of the concept of the story moderation queue. it'd be a nice bolt-on. [a side-thought; i'm only subscribed to this one list. should i be brainstorming somewhere else? or is this a tolerable place for that?] > I don't know about these others, but one thing I'd like to see or > perhaps hack out one of these days, is that if you submit a story to a > section that has extra data, say, book reviews, the user can enter > those data fields when doing the original post. Right now in Slash > 1.0.9 I think you can only enter those fields while in the Admin > area..... i think that's a really cool idea. and i appreciate your positive feedback on my ranting from earlier this afternoon :) i really like slashdot but i need it to do some more stuff.... *grin* i eventually want to use it as a discussion forum for my students, but it needs a bit more fine-grained tuning before it'll serve as i like :) is that extra data stuff something that could be done template-style? is there a forum where people post things they'd eventually like to see a slash-like system do? i occasionally have a wacky plugin idea or something and it'd be nice to be able to do something with it other than just sit on it and hope i get un-busy eventually.. ~elijah |
From: Eric D. <eri...@ja...> - 2000-12-09 19:29:00
|
> > in the absence of that, however, here are some ideas: > > * submission method modularization (email, http, nntp linkages) Um, email submission might be a cool idea.... > > * administrative override (so that the trolls don't mod up a story as a > prank) Great idea > > * settable limits on the speed with which a story can be modded up before > an automated mechanism decides a bot is doing the modding; logging > of accounts used in this fashion Is that really a problem? I think the logging of story moderations by users is a good idea. > > * graphing of story-submitters and frequency (libgd-perl is your friend) Hmm.........another good idea > > * a configurable point system that can handle multiple levels of users, > differing moderation values, and various point assignments from each. Again, great idea > > * the ability to assign different point values to different categories- > something may deserve +5 points from a newbie if posted to a > "tech" section, +8 points from a recognized > "strong-supporter-or-friend-of-admin, but only 3 points from a newbie in > "politics" and 5 from the aforementioned strong supporter. this puts > responsibility for categorization in the hands of the users. i'd like > to see dropdown javascript boxes (or whatever) allowing the story > submitter to give the top 3 categories they see fitting and their point > values. form submit boxes with regex/match-parsing would work just as > well. > * RDF / RSS exports of the story submission queues > * items in queue web-accessible via some means other than the story > moderation page- i'd like to be able to get to a raw dump of the > stories. i don't really care how- NNTP or mysql or postgres with a > simple page that just dumps the data would be fine. of course, that > page will need controls on how quickly it can be dumped- perhaps the > perl script responsible for that can log accesses from IP's and slow > itself down accordingly? > * a weird idea i just had- what if slashcode could parse in the rdf/rss > headlines from other sites and include THOSE into the story submission > queue? it might not be such a bad idea to be able to choose to see > headlines frmo other relevant sites in a one-shot format, rather than > the full-on slash frontpage format. working on flexibility here rather > than what most people would want... I don't know about these others, but one thing I'd like to see or perhaps hack out one of these days, is that if you submit a story to a section that has extra data, say, book reviews, the user can enter those data fields when doing the original post. Right now in Slash 1.0.9 I think you can only enter those fields while in the Admin area..... |
From: Jason R. <ja...@ar...> - 2000-12-09 19:20:25
|
How about this: If you receive no responses on you RFC, what will this thing do? We have nothing to comment on. CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote: > First of all, I was not hostile towards him, you'll see I took the time to > interact with him 4 or 5 times. Don't get huffy with me because I don't > agree with Chris, that's irrational and immature. Politics are not > appreciated nor welcome. > > " you need to explain in detail the way in which your story submission queue > plugin works. " > > Once again, how do you expect me to detail exactly HOW it works when we > haven't even finished decided WHAT all it will do? What it will do would be > done if we were not taking the time, regrettably, to ask others for what > they would like to see in it so we can use OUR time to make this more useful > for other people. If we did not do this, and the 'what' part was done, I > wouldn't even be mailing the list because there would be no point. > > Look this is a very simple concept. We will be developing an open submission > queue plugin for Slash. Email me everything you would like to see in it and > THEN we will come back with a final RFC on final feature set, logic, and > *implementation*. > > I don't understand why What (Business logic) and How (Technical logic) are > such confusing concepts to most techies. > > I will not further clarify this. Not only is the horse beaten, but the very > molecules it is made of are so strained it's cm's from vapourising. I'm > ready and eager to get down to code. > > Ciao, > k > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "elijah wright" <el...@st...> > To: <sla...@li...> > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 9:52 AM > Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] RFC for Open Story Submission Queue > plugin > > > > > > > Further explanation is needed by you, apparently, but with all do > respect, > > > you don't speak for everyone. As I've already stated, I've spoken with > > > > you need to explain in detail the way in which your story submission queue > > plugin works. you have NOT explained it in any reasnoable sense, other > > than saying that it will exist. chris is right, it *does* merit > > explanation. even for those of us who have a vague sense of what you are > > doing- we'd like to make sure that you are on the 'right path' and aren't > > wasting your time on something that's going to be blatantly useless to > > everyone else :) > > > > so please do explain it instead of being hostile to nandor... thanks. > > > > elijah > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Slashcode-development mailing list > > Sla...@li... > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/slashcode-development > > > > _______________________________________________ > Slashcode-development mailing list > Sla...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/slashcode-development -- "Jason C. Richey" <ja...@ar...> |
From: elijah w. <el...@st...> - 2000-12-09 19:12:01
|
> First of all, I was not hostile towards him, you'll see I took the time to > interact with him 4 or 5 times. Don't get huffy with me because I don't > agree with Chris, that's irrational and immature. Politics are not > appreciated nor welcome. be extremely careful when you use rhetoric like "even you"- it pisses a large number of people off and is not the best PR :) anyway, point taken. please don't name-call, though. > Once again, how do you expect me to detail exactly HOW it works when we > haven't even finished decided WHAT all it will do? What it will do would be > done if we were not taking the time, regrettably, to ask others for what i am asking what your vision of it thus far is. otherwise you're really not doing anything more than asking the community to define your project goals for you in their entirety. that's the hard part. not the code. :) > Look this is a very simple concept. We will be developing an open submission > queue plugin for Slash. Email me everything you would like to see in it and > THEN we will come back with a final RFC on final feature set, logic, and > *implementation*. that's not such a simple concept when you have provided next to no information on what your planned stance is. do you have one? at all? don't ask people who read your message to waste their time coming up with a feature set critique unless you already have one in mind as a basis. and the story submission queue concept isn't simple. doing a one-shot implementation is "easy", doing one that works will be harder. > I don't understand why What (Business logic) and How (Technical logic) are > such confusing concepts to most techies. they aren't. but you haven't provided this list with either. i'm asking you to be rhetorically clear and provide a clear picture of what it is that you're asking, the basis for your assumptions, your ideas thus far, and your envisioned goal. in the absence of that, however, here are some ideas: * submission method modularization (email, http, nntp linkages) * administrative override (so that the trolls don't mod up a story as a prank) * settable limits on the speed with which a story can be modded up before an automated mechanism decides a bot is doing the modding; logging of accounts used in this fashion * graphing of story-submitters and frequency (libgd-perl is your friend) * a configurable point system that can handle multiple levels of users, differing moderation values, and various point assignments from each. * the ability to assign different point values to different categories- something may deserve +5 points from a newbie if posted to a "tech" section, +8 points from a recognized "strong-supporter-or-friend-of-admin, but only 3 points from a newbie in "politics" and 5 from the aforementioned strong supporter. this puts responsibility for categorization in the hands of the users. i'd like to see dropdown javascript boxes (or whatever) allowing the story submitter to give the top 3 categories they see fitting and their point values. form submit boxes with regex/match-parsing would work just as well. * RDF / RSS exports of the story submission queues * items in queue web-accessible via some means other than the story moderation page- i'd like to be able to get to a raw dump of the stories. i don't really care how- NNTP or mysql or postgres with a simple page that just dumps the data would be fine. of course, that page will need controls on how quickly it can be dumped- perhaps the perl script responsible for that can log accesses from IP's and slow itself down accordingly? * a weird idea i just had- what if slashcode could parse in the rdf/rss headlines from other sites and include THOSE into the story submission queue? it might not be such a bad idea to be able to choose to see headlines frmo other relevant sites in a one-shot format, rather than the full-on slash frontpage format. working on flexibility here rather than what most people would want... ~elijah |
From: CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...> - 2000-12-09 18:00:54
|
First of all, I was not hostile towards him, you'll see I took the time to interact with him 4 or 5 times. Don't get huffy with me because I don't agree with Chris, that's irrational and immature. Politics are not appreciated nor welcome. " you need to explain in detail the way in which your story submission queue plugin works. " Once again, how do you expect me to detail exactly HOW it works when we haven't even finished decided WHAT all it will do? What it will do would be done if we were not taking the time, regrettably, to ask others for what they would like to see in it so we can use OUR time to make this more useful for other people. If we did not do this, and the 'what' part was done, I wouldn't even be mailing the list because there would be no point. Look this is a very simple concept. We will be developing an open submission queue plugin for Slash. Email me everything you would like to see in it and THEN we will come back with a final RFC on final feature set, logic, and *implementation*. I don't understand why What (Business logic) and How (Technical logic) are such confusing concepts to most techies. I will not further clarify this. Not only is the horse beaten, but the very molecules it is made of are so strained it's cm's from vapourising. I'm ready and eager to get down to code. Ciao, k ----- Original Message ----- From: "elijah wright" <el...@st...> To: <sla...@li...> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] RFC for Open Story Submission Queue plugin > > > Further explanation is needed by you, apparently, but with all do respect, > > you don't speak for everyone. As I've already stated, I've spoken with > > you need to explain in detail the way in which your story submission queue > plugin works. you have NOT explained it in any reasnoable sense, other > than saying that it will exist. chris is right, it *does* merit > explanation. even for those of us who have a vague sense of what you are > doing- we'd like to make sure that you are on the 'right path' and aren't > wasting your time on something that's going to be blatantly useless to > everyone else :) > > so please do explain it instead of being hostile to nandor... thanks. > > elijah > > _______________________________________________ > Slashcode-development mailing list > Sla...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/slashcode-development > |
From: elijah w. <el...@st...> - 2000-12-09 17:42:35
|
> Further explanation is needed by you, apparently, but with all do respect, > you don't speak for everyone. As I've already stated, I've spoken with you need to explain in detail the way in which your story submission queue plugin works. you have NOT explained it in any reasnoable sense, other than saying that it will exist. chris is right, it *does* merit explanation. even for those of us who have a vague sense of what you are doing- we'd like to make sure that you are on the 'right path' and aren't wasting your time on something that's going to be blatantly useless to everyone else :) so please do explain it instead of being hostile to nandor... thanks. elijah |
From: CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...> - 2000-12-09 16:03:12
|
Further explanation is needed by you, apparently, but with all do respect, you don't speak for everyone. As I've already stated, I've spoken with plenty of people who didn't need even as much clarification as I've given you to know exactly what I am referring to. We don't *need* feedback. We already have all of our needs designed into the plugin. I thought I would give everyone on this list the opportunity to give me feedback because I'm kind and if there was something someone wanted that wouldn't be too difficult, we would go ahead and code it for them. As stated, sadly I do not have the time available it would take obviously to detail every feature to the level *everyone* would understand. If this bothers you, please feel free to ignore this thread; there's nothing more I can do, regrettably. Ciao, k ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nandor" <pu...@po...> To: <sla...@li...> Cc: <sla...@li...> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 7:29 AM Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] RFC for Open Story Submission Queue plugin > At 7:14 -0800 2000.12.09, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote: > >I did simply detail what it will do, as we see it. I'm sorry if I'm not > >being clear but I've discussed it with a non-trivial number of people before > >referring to it only by 'open story submission queue plugin,' no further > >explanation needed. > > Well, now you are publcially asking for comments, and further explanation > is needed. > > -- > Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ > Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Slashcode-development mailing list > Sla...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/slashcode-development > |
From: Chris N. <pu...@po...> - 2000-12-09 15:30:34
|
At 7:14 -0800 2000.12.09, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote: >I did simply detail what it will do, as we see it. I'm sorry if I'm not >being clear but I've discussed it with a non-trivial number of people before >referring to it only by 'open story submission queue plugin,' no further >explanation needed. Well, now you are publcially asking for comments, and further explanation is needed. -- Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ |
From: CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...> - 2000-12-09 15:12:14
|
I did simply detail what it will do, as we see it. I'm sorry if I'm not being clear but I've discussed it with a non-trivial number of people before referring to it only by 'open story submission queue plugin,' no further explanation needed. I would like to be clear to the point where everyone, even you, could understand, but sadly I do not have any time available to further clarify what we'll be coding. People who *really* want this feature will know exactly what we're setting out to do and will have already thought about it a considerable amount, considering how popular of a feature request it is. Thus they will be more the people we seek comments from. Hopefully well get ya on the next feature we code. ;) That's very likely considering we now have a developer dedicated to Slash development full time. Ciao, k ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nandor" <pu...@po...> To: <sla...@li...> Cc: <sla...@li...> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] RFC for Open Story Submission Queue plugin > At 5:29 -0800 2000.12.09, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote: > >Sorry, that being one of the most requested features of Slash I assumed you > >and the others on this list would know what I was referring to. Simply put, > >it creates the ability for the registered users of a Slash site to vote on > >which submissions to the story queue are posted and which are not. Now are > >you clear? > > Only partially. I've actually only seen anything like this requested only > once. I've many times seen people request the ability for users to post > stories, but only once seen anyone ask to vote on stories. And what > happens when they vote? Are they automatically posted? These are the > kinds of details I would need in order to comment on it reasonably. Simply > detail what it will do, as you see it, and note that it is subject to > change. > > -- > Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ > Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Slashcode-development mailing list > Sla...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/slashcode-development > |
From: Chris N. <pu...@po...> - 2000-12-09 14:35:17
|
At 5:29 -0800 2000.12.09, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote: >Sorry, that being one of the most requested features of Slash I assumed you >and the others on this list would know what I was referring to. Simply put, >it creates the ability for the registered users of a Slash site to vote on >which submissions to the story queue are posted and which are not. Now are >you clear? Only partially. I've actually only seen anything like this requested only once. I've many times seen people request the ability for users to post stories, but only once seen anyone ask to vote on stories. And what happens when they vote? Are they automatically posted? These are the kinds of details I would need in order to comment on it reasonably. Simply detail what it will do, as you see it, and note that it is subject to change. -- Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ |
From: CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...> - 2000-12-09 13:27:26
|
Sorry, that being one of the most requested features of Slash I assumed you and the others on this list would know what I was referring to. Simply put, it creates the ability for the registered users of a Slash site to vote on which submissions to the story queue are posted and which are not. Now are you clear? Ciao, k ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nandor" <pu...@po...> To: <sla...@li...> Cc: <sla...@li...> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] RFC for Open Story Submission Queue plugin > At 4:38 -0800 2000.12.09, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote: > >We cannot document *how* we will do this since we don't even yet know *what* > >all people would like to see done. The Request For Comment isn't with > >regards to technical design but rather 'business' design. You must document > >what before you can document how, and this is what we want. Does this make > >it more clear to you? > > No, because I still have no idea what it is that you are talking about. > That's the point. You want to create a "plugin to make the story > submission queue open." What does that mean? > > -- > Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ > Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Slashcode-development mailing list > Sla...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/slashcode-development > |
From: Chris N. <pu...@po...> - 2000-12-09 13:13:25
|
At 4:38 -0800 2000.12.09, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote: >We cannot document *how* we will do this since we don't even yet know *what* >all people would like to see done. The Request For Comment isn't with >regards to technical design but rather 'business' design. You must document >what before you can document how, and this is what we want. Does this make >it more clear to you? No, because I still have no idea what it is that you are talking about. That's the point. You want to create a "plugin to make the story submission queue open." What does that mean? -- Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ |
From: CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...> - 2000-12-09 12:36:41
|
We cannot document *how* we will do this since we don't even yet know *what* all people would like to see done. The Request For Comment isn't with regards to technical design but rather 'business' design. You must document what before you can document how, and this is what we want. Does this make it more clear to you? Ciao, k ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nandor" <pu...@po...> To: <sla...@li...> Cc: <sla...@li...> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 4:25 AM Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] RFC for Open Story Submission Queue plugin > At 3:25 -0800 2000.12.09, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote: > >After talking with Krow/Brian we'll be undertaking the most desirable task > >of creating a plugin to make the story submission queue open. Due to our own > >internal timeline, this must be done this following week. Therefore, I would > >appreciate any comments, suggestions, feature requests, etc. to be emailed > >to me by 0:00 Wednesday GMT. > > Is this an RFC? An RFC usually details a plan that people can comment on. > I don't really have any idea what it is that you propose to do. > > -- > Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ > Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Slashcode-development mailing list > Sla...@li... > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/slashcode-development > |
From: Chris N. <pu...@po...> - 2000-12-09 12:31:45
|
At 3:25 -0800 2000.12.09, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote: >After talking with Krow/Brian we'll be undertaking the most desirable task >of creating a plugin to make the story submission queue open. Due to our own >internal timeline, this must be done this following week. Therefore, I would >appreciate any comments, suggestions, feature requests, etc. to be emailed >to me by 0:00 Wednesday GMT. Is this an RFC? An RFC usually details a plan that people can comment on. I don't really have any idea what it is that you propose to do. -- Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ |
From: Chris N. <pu...@po...> - 2000-12-09 12:26:59
|
At 22:15 -0800 2000.12.08, James Edward Marca wrote: >Stupid question #1. I noticed some small discrepancies and >the like in the install process, and my httpd.conf was based on >apache_1.3.14 default httpd.conf, built with mod_perl and mod_ssl, >so there are differences with the demo httpd.conf. Differences are irrelevant. Just make sure you include the slashcode stuff. >Is it way too early to submit diffs to this stuff, or not? And if >not, what should I send to whom? There's the patch manager on SourceForge. >Q#2, I have the template editor up, on my windows box, >pointing at site/admin.pl?templateed=1 Is that a question? >Now on my linux box, I occasionally (well, twice so far) get pages and >pages of screen dumps scolling by on the virtual terminal window >which ran ./slashd start. Someone put some debugging code in slashd to print that to STDOUT. It needs to be removed. -- Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ |
From: CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...> - 2000-12-09 11:24:25
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Greetings, After talking with Krow/Brian we'll be undertaking the most desirable task of creating a plugin to make the story submission queue open. Due to our own internal timeline, this must be done this following week. Therefore, I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, feature requests, etc. to be emailed to me by 0:00 Wednesday GMT. Ciao, k |
From: James E. M. <jm...@tr...> - 2000-12-09 06:06:51
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I installed bender tarball (slash-1.1.1-bender) under slackware 7.0 it runs. Stupid question #1. I noticed some small discrepancies and the like in the install process, and my httpd.conf was based on apache_1.3.14 default httpd.conf, built with mod_perl and mod_ssl, so there are differences with the demo httpd.conf. Is it way too early to submit diffs to this stuff, or not? And if not, what should I send to whom? Q#2, I have the template editor up, on my windows box, pointing at site/admin.pl?templateed=1 Now on my linux box, I occasionally (well, twice so far) get pages and pages of screen dumps scolling by on the virtual terminal window which ran ./slashd start. the last lines say <!--#include virtual="//slashfoot.inc"--> <!-- end template: ssifoot --> The rest looks like the usual slashdot block code stuff Is that just an echo thing happening because a debugging flag is on, or should it really be happening? Given a previous email documenting performance issues, I thought perhaps pages of output dumped somewhere suspicious (the screen) might be a bug somewhere. Oh, and since this is my first post (sorry), good work to all of you folks on slashcode. james |
From: Chris N. <pu...@po...> - 2000-12-08 22:45:32
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I committed a bunch of changes to Slash::Display, got them all tested, etc. Essentially: * There is a separate Template object for each site, saved in the Slash::Apache cache, along with user/form/constants/etc. * It obeys the cache_enabled flag, so caching in Slash::Display of the templates will be turned off if cache_enabled is false * A new variable in vars, template_cache_size, sets the template object's CACHE_SIZE parameter. "0" is "unlimited cache," not "no cache." To turn off caching, set cache_enabled to false. A template will be purged from the cache if template_cache_size is nonzero, and a the cache size gets to large; the cache is LRU (least recently used). See the Template docs for details. * Templates are purged from the cache if the template has been updated in the Slash::DB cache. This may still need some work in Slash::DB, but the functionality is all there just fine in Slash::Display, so we won't have to worry about it there. -- Chris Nandor pu...@po... http://pudge.net/ Open Source Development Network pu...@os... http://osdn.com/ |