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From: Hedayat V. <hed...@ai...> - 2007-06-16 07:09:30
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> </head> <body dir="ltr" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><small><font size="+1"><small>Hi,</small></font></small></p> <p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><small>I think that the vision percepts for the agent is wrong when he is in the right team. I've run two agents from two different teams, this is the vision percept of the second agent (which is in the right team and with the initial orientation):</small></p> <p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">(See (F1L (pol 96.29 -94.13 -2.76)) (F2L (pol 113.78 -57.52 -1.97)) (F1R (pol 10.41 134.63 -17.79)) (F2R (pol 61.49 6.61 -2.30))<br> </span><span style="font-size: 13px;"></span></p> <p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 13px;"><br> </span><span style="font-size: 13px;"></span></p> <p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">It seems that the horizontal degrees are incorrect. The zero horizontal degree points backwards. <br> </span><span style="font-size: 13px;"></span></p> <p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 13px;"><br> </span><span style="font-size: 13px;"></span></p> <p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">Good luck,<br> </span><span style="font-size: 13px;"></span></p> <p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">Hedayat</span><br> </p> <p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 13px;"></span></p> <p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-top: 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 13px;"></span></p> </body> </html> |
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From: Yuan X. <xuy...@gm...> - 2007-06-16 08:08:22
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Hi Hedayat and Joschka,
> It seems that the horizontal degrees are incorrect. The zero horizontal
> degree points backwards.
Yes, you are right.
After quick check, I found that while the agent initialize ( in
InitEffector::PrePhysicsUpdateInternal ),
the initial position is request from GameState, but the rotation is not!
In the Vision::DynamicAxisPercept the flags are flipped for the right team.
I'll try to work it out.
--
Best wishes!
Xu Yuan
School of Automation
Southeast University, Nanjing, China
mail: xuy...@gm...
xy...@ya...
web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com
--------------------------------------------------
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From: Yuan X. <xuy...@gm...> - 2007-06-16 09:19:14
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Hi Joschka, I have work it out, and solve the beam effector problem. I think. In my test, our agent can start walk after 20 beams. I will commit changes to the HEAD, right? 2007/6/16, Yuan Xu <xuy...@gm...>: > Hi Hedayat and Joschka, > > > It seems that the horizontal degrees are incorrect. The zero horizontal > > degree points backwards. > > Yes, you are right. > After quick check, I found that while the agent initialize ( in > InitEffector::PrePhysicsUpdateInternal ), > the initial position is request from GameState, but the rotation is not! > In the Vision::DynamicAxisPercept the flags are flipped for the right team. > > I'll try to work it out. > > > -- > Best wishes! > > Xu Yuan > School of Automation > Southeast University, Nanjing, China > > mail: xuy...@gm... > xy...@ya... > web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com > -------------------------------------------------- > -- Best wishes! Xu Yuan School of Automation Southeast University, Nanjing, China mail: xuy...@gm... xy...@ya... web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com -------------------------------------------------- |
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From: Joschka B. <jbo...@un...> - 2007-06-16 09:45:10
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Hey Yuan, On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 17:19 +0800, Yuan Xu wrote: > Hi Joschka, > > I have work it out, and solve the beam effector problem. I think. > In my test, our agent can start walk after 20 beams. Terrific! :-) > I will commit changes to the HEAD, right? Yes, I merged the branches, so please commit to the HEAD. Thank you! Joschka > 2007/6/16, Yuan Xu <xuy...@gm...>: > > Hi Hedayat and Joschka, > > > > > It seems that the horizontal degrees are incorrect. The zero horizontal > > > degree points backwards. > > > > Yes, you are right. > > After quick check, I found that while the agent initialize ( in > > InitEffector::PrePhysicsUpdateInternal ), > > the initial position is request from GameState, but the rotation is not! > > In the Vision::DynamicAxisPercept the flags are flipped for the right team. > > > > I'll try to work it out. > > > > > > -- > > Best wishes! > > > > Xu Yuan > > School of Automation > > Southeast University, Nanjing, China > > > > mail: xuy...@gm... > > xy...@ya... > > web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > |
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From: Yuan X. <xuy...@gm...> - 2007-06-16 11:03:48
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Hi Joschka, I have committed my changes, you can test it. 2007/6/16, Joschka Boedecker <jbo...@un...>: > Hey Yuan, > > On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 17:19 +0800, Yuan Xu wrote: > > Hi Joschka, > > > > I have work it out, and solve the beam effector problem. I think. > > In my test, our agent can start walk after 20 beams. > > Terrific! :-) > > > I will commit changes to the HEAD, right? > > Yes, I merged the branches, so please commit to the HEAD. > > Thank you! > > Joschka > > > 2007/6/16, Yuan Xu <xuy...@gm...>: > > > Hi Hedayat and Joschka, > > > > > > > It seems that the horizontal degrees are incorrect. The zero horizontal > > > > degree points backwards. > > > > > > Yes, you are right. > > > After quick check, I found that while the agent initialize ( in > > > InitEffector::PrePhysicsUpdateInternal ), > > > the initial position is request from GameState, but the rotation is not! > > > In the Vision::DynamicAxisPercept the flags are flipped for the right team. > > > > > > I'll try to work it out. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Best wishes! > > > > > > Xu Yuan > > > School of Automation > > > Southeast University, Nanjing, China > > > > > > mail: xuy...@gm... > > > xy...@ya... > > > web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > -- Best wishes! Xu Yuan School of Automation Southeast University, Nanjing, China mail: xuy...@gm... xy...@ya... web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com -------------------------------------------------- |
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From: Joschka B. <jbo...@un...> - 2007-06-16 16:17:31
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Hi Yuan, On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 19:03 +0800, Yuan Xu wrote: > Hi Joschka, > > I have committed my changes, you can test it. It works perfectly :-) It's important to know that the rotation is now relative to the current orientation of the agent, not an absolute rotation, but either way is fine (as long as we tell the teams ;-) ). Good job! Cheers, Joschka > 2007/6/16, Joschka Boedecker <jbo...@un...>: > > Hey Yuan, > > > > On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 17:19 +0800, Yuan Xu wrote: > > > Hi Joschka, > > > > > > I have work it out, and solve the beam effector problem. I think. > > > In my test, our agent can start walk after 20 beams. > > > > Terrific! :-) > > > > > I will commit changes to the HEAD, right? > > > > Yes, I merged the branches, so please commit to the HEAD. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Joschka > > > > > 2007/6/16, Yuan Xu <xuy...@gm...>: > > > > Hi Hedayat and Joschka, > > > > > > > > > It seems that the horizontal degrees are incorrect. The zero horizontal > > > > > degree points backwards. > > > > > > > > Yes, you are right. > > > > After quick check, I found that while the agent initialize ( in > > > > InitEffector::PrePhysicsUpdateInternal ), > > > > the initial position is request from GameState, but the rotation is not! > > > > In the Vision::DynamicAxisPercept the flags are flipped for the right team. > > > > > > > > I'll try to work it out. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Best wishes! > > > > > > > > Xu Yuan > > > > School of Automation > > > > Southeast University, Nanjing, China > > > > > > > > mail: xuy...@gm... > > > > xy...@ya... > > > > web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
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From: Yuan X. <xuy...@gm...> - 2007-06-16 16:39:06
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Hi Joschka,
> It works perfectly :-) It's important to know that the rotation is now
> relative to the current orientation of the agent, not an absolute
> rotation, but either way is fine (as long as we tell the teams ;-) ).
Yes, if we set the absolute rotation, we should get the torso rotation,
set the torso to the absolute rotation and calculate the delta rotation,
and apply the delta rotation to all other bodies.
Do you think we should implement that?
> Good job!
>
Thanks!
--
Best wishes!
Xu Yuan
School of Automation
Southeast University, Nanjing, China
mail: xuy...@gm...
xy...@ya...
web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com
--------------------------------------------------
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From: Yuan X. <xuy...@gm...> - 2007-06-16 17:35:52
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Hi Joschka, To make it better, I just implemented what I mentioned. Furthermore, the angle is flipped by sides, i.e. the 0 degree means facing the opponent's goal. Is is OK ? 2007/6/17, Yuan Xu <xuy...@gm...>: > Hi Joschka, > > > > It works perfectly :-) It's important to know that the rotation is now > > relative to the current orientation of the agent, not an absolute > > rotation, but either way is fine (as long as we tell the teams ;-) ). > > Yes, if we set the absolute rotation, we should get the torso rotation, > set the torso to the absolute rotation and calculate the delta rotation, > and apply the delta rotation to all other bodies. > > Do you think we should implement that? > > > Good job! > > > Thanks! > > > -- > Best wishes! > > Xu Yuan > School of Automation > Southeast University, Nanjing, China > > mail: xuy...@gm... > xy...@ya... > web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com > -------------------------------------------------- > -- Best wishes! Xu Yuan School of Automation Southeast University, Nanjing, China mail: xuy...@gm... xy...@ya... web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com -------------------------------------------------- |
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From: Joschka B. <jbo...@un...> - 2007-06-17 02:41:13
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Hi Yuan, On Sun, 2007-06-17 at 01:35 +0800, Yuan Xu wrote: > Hi Joschka, > > To make it better, I just implemented what I mentioned. > Furthermore, the angle is flipped by sides, i.e. the 0 degree means > facing the opponent's goal. > Is is OK ? I had to do some changes in order to make the code compile again. It seems you forgot to update your sources before you committed your changes. Please remember to always update before a commit. Also, please record your changes in the ChangeLog file. >From my own experience, the PCL-CVS tool in Emacs is very useful for working with CVS. It lets you examine a directory, will show any files that were modified, need update, have conflicts, etc. You can easily diff files in different windows, add ChangeLog entries, and then use the ChangeLog entries automatically as messages when you do a commit. I use it all the time, it's very handy. As an example, I usually go to the rcssserver3D folder and then choose Tools->PCL-CVS->Examine Directory. This will show me which files are different from the versions in the CVS. I can then do a diff using '=', open a file using 'f', add a ChangeLog entry using 'A', and then commit changes using 'C' and 'Ctrl-c Ctrl-c'. This will automatically use the message I put in the ChangeLog the file(s) I want to commit, so I don't have to document twice. You can find many manuals about PCL-CVS on the web, for instance here [1]. Of course there are other good tools, but my own experience with this one has been really good, so I thought I'd share :-) There is also a mailing-list for receiving all the emails generated by the CVS system if someone commits new code. It can be handy also. You can subscribe at [2], if you haven't done it yet. Apart from that: the code works great now. Not only will the robot rotate at a global angle now, it will also stand up if it had fallen down before ;-) Cheers, Joschka [1] http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/old/texinfo/cvs/pcl-cvs_toc.html [2] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sserver-commits |
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From: Yuan X. <xuy...@gm...> - 2007-06-17 03:03:19
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Hi Joschka,
> I had to do some changes in order to make the code compile again. It
> seems you forgot to update your sources before you committed your
> changes. Please remember to always update before a commit. Also, please
> record your changes in the ChangeLog file.
Thank you very much for your guide!
I will take a look at it.
Come back to the Vision Perceptor, there is still a problem.
I flipped all the object global positions for right team,
the agent will assume he is still in left side while localizing by flags,
but other objects information are wrong ;-(
So, in fact I think what we need is only flip the flags (and goal flags),
then the right team also think they are in left.
Otherwise, do not flip any object, then teams take care of this themselves,
I checked my old 3D sphere agent code, the agent need to take care it.
So, just now I have commented out the flip.
If we know which is flag or not, we can do something better.
Any idea?
--
Best wishes!
Xu Yuan
School of Automation
Southeast University, Nanjing, China
mail: xuy...@gm...
xy...@ya...
web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com
--------------------------------------------------
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From: Joschka B. <jbo...@un...> - 2007-06-17 08:52:38
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Hi Yuan, On Sun, 2007-06-17 at 11:03 +0800, Yuan Xu wrote: > Hi Joschka, [...] > Come back to the Vision Perceptor, there is still a problem. > I flipped all the object global positions for right team, > the agent will assume he is still in left side while localizing by flags, > but other objects information are wrong ;-( > So, in fact I think what we need is only flip the flags (and goal flags), > then the right team also think they are in left. > Otherwise, do not flip any object, then teams take care of this themselves, > I checked my old 3D sphere agent code, the agent need to take care it. > So, just now I have commented out the flip. > If we know which is flag or not, we can do something better. We set names for the flags in the RSG file and you can check these names by using the GetName() method, similar to the line element.AddValue((*i)->GetName()); in the Vision Perceptor. Does this help? Cheers, Joschka |
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From: Hedayat V. <hed...@ai...> - 2007-06-18 08:11:42
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Hi Yuan, There is a problem; currently the right team can't think that they are on the left because: 1. the init message says: (team right) 2. All of the game states use "right" for that team (e.g. KickOffRight). I just want to say that it would be better if we use "left" and "right" consistently. To be more consistent, we may avoid using left and right for the flags altogether. For example, we may call: our flags and opponent flags! And we may use left and right instead of 1 and 2 which are used currently. So, we will have "our left flag(FLO), our right flag (FRO),..."!! (This is an example only). Cheers, Hedayat /*"Yuan Xu" <xuy...@gm...>*/ wrote on 06/17/2007 06:33:16 AM: > Hi Joschka, > > > >> I had to do some changes in order to make the code compile again. It >> seems you forgot to update your sources before you committed your >> changes. Please remember to always update before a commit. Also, please >> record your changes in the ChangeLog file. >> > > Thank you very much for your guide! > I will take a look at it. > > Come back to the Vision Perceptor, there is still a problem. > I flipped all the object global positions for right team, > the agent will assume he is still in left side while localizing by flags, > but other objects information are wrong ;-( > So, in fact I think what we need is only flip the flags (and goal flags), > then the right team also think they are in left. > Otherwise, do not flip any object, then teams take care of this themselves, > I checked my old 3D sphere agent code, the agent need to take care it. > So, just now I have commented out the flip. > If we know which is flag or not, we can do something better. > > Any idea? > > > |
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From: Yuan X. <xuy...@gm...> - 2007-06-18 08:34:55
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Hi Hedayat,
> There is a problem; currently the right team can't think that they are on
> the left because: 1. the init message says: (team right) 2. All of the game
> states use "right" for that team (e.g. KickOffRight). I just want to say
> that it would be better if we use "left" and "right" consistently.
> To be more consistent, we may avoid using left and right for the flags
> altogether. For example, we may call: our flags and opponent flags! And we
> may use left and right instead of 1 and 2 which are used currently. So, we
> will have "our left flag(FLO), our right flag (FRO),..."!! (This is an
> example only).
>
Good idea! This is what exactly my mean ;-)
This is useful while teams design strategy and formation, I think.
Joschka, will we use the new flag names?
--
Best wishes!
Xu Yuan
School of Automation
Southeast University, Nanjing, China
mail: xuy...@gm...
xy...@ya...
web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com
--------------------------------------------------
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From: Joschka B. <jbo...@un...> - 2007-06-18 13:53:47
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On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 15:17 +0200, Jan Murray wrote: [...] > > >> If you label the flags with "my" / "opponent", this is a _semantic_ > >> annotation of the flag that can't be found on the soccer field. The > >> vision perceptor should only deliver the syntactic label of the flag, > >> and the intelligence of deciding which side the flags belong to > >> should be in the agent, not in the simulator. > > > > Wasn't there something like flipping the labels in the old simulator? > > Maybe I'm completely wrong though, I didn't check... > > I checked the visionperceptor of version 0.4. There all > (x/y)-coordinates were multiplied with -1 for the right team for the > static and dynamic axis percept. I think this goes back to the time > before we used the dynamic axis. In those days ;-) it was easier to say > the x-axis points towards the opponent goal. Thanks for checking. I knew there was something, but I didn't remember the details :-/ > What I didn't get from the previous discussion is whether only the > flag/goal labels should be flipped, or all positions should be flipped. Yuan implemented flipping the flag/goal labels. > >> So IMHO, flipping the labels should be removed from the perceptor, > >> and using "left" for the left flags of teams of either side isn't any > >> better than the original labels. > > In this case we could perhaps replace left and right with yellow and > blue. This avoids confusion if you move the camera round and the yellow > goal is on the right, suddenly. ;) But then we should apply this to the > gamestateperceptor as well. > > > OK, so we leave the old labels and remove the flipping? > > This would be like 2D. IIRC the vision in the 2D simulator was exactly > as Oliver proposed. > > I tend to agree with Oliver. It's easy for a team to implement a flip > based on their side, but it's (unnecessary) overhead for the simulator. Since I also would like to limit the changes the teams have to do (I actually do, hard to believe some times I guess ;-) ), I'd propose then to keep the names we have now and remove the flipping again. Yuan, could you take care of this, please? Cheers, Joschka |
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From: Yuan X. <xuy...@gm...> - 2007-06-18 13:59:42
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Hi all,
> Since I also would like to limit the changes the teams have to do (I
> actually do, hard to believe some times I guess ;-) ), I'd propose then
> to keep the names we have now and remove the flipping again. Yuan, could
> you take care of this, please?
>
Well, I am wrong ;-( this is not the work of server.
After remove flipping names, everything should be OK, I think.
BTW, another work I did may be also redundant ;-(
I rotate the angles while agent beam, so that 0 degree is face to opponent goal.
Then, should I also remove this?
--
Best wishes!
Xu Yuan
School of Automation
Southeast University, Nanjing, China
mail: xuy...@gm...
xy...@ya...
web: http://xuyuan.cn.googlepages.com
--------------------------------------------------
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From: Joschka B. <jbo...@un...> - 2007-06-18 10:42:55
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Hi, On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 16:34 +0800, Yuan Xu wrote: > Hi Hedayat, > > > > There is a problem; currently the right team can't think that they are on > > the left because: 1. the init message says: (team right) 2. All of the game > > states use "right" for that team (e.g. KickOffRight). I just want to say > > that it would be better if we use "left" and "right" consistently. > > To be more consistent, we may avoid using left and right for the flags > > altogether. For example, we may call: our flags and opponent flags! And we > > may use left and right instead of 1 and 2 which are used currently. So, we > > will have "our left flag(FLO), our right flag (FRO),..."!! (This is an > > example only). > > > > Good idea! This is what exactly my mean ;-) > This is useful while teams design strategy and formation, I think. > > Joschka, will we use the new flag names? I think it's a good idea. But we should choose different names from "our" and "opponent" (both start with 'O' ;-) ). How about "my team" (M) and "opponent team" (0). So it would look like: FLM....................FLO GLM....................GLO GRM....................GRO FLM....................FLO ...for the one team, and flipped for the other team, right? Cheers, Joschka |
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From: Oliver O. <oli...@ne...> - 2007-06-18 12:07:35
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Hi, On 18/06/2007, at 8:42 PM, Joschka Boedecker wrote: >>> To be more consistent, we may avoid using left and right for the >>> flags >>> altogether. For example, we may call: our flags and opponent >>> flags! And we >>> may use left and right instead of 1 and 2 which are used >>> currently. So, we >>> will have "our left flag(FLO), our right flag (FRO),..."!! (This >>> is an >>> example only). >>> >> >> Good idea! This is what exactly my mean ;-) >> This is useful while teams design strategy and formation, I think. >> >> Joschka, will we use the new flag names? > > I think it's a good idea. But we should choose different names from > "our" and "opponent" (both start with 'O' ;-) ). How about "my > team" (M) > and "opponent team" (0). So it would look like: I'm not sure if I missed something, but as far as I understood the discussion so far, I don't agree it's a good idea. The flag names (with "left" and "right" for flags on the left/right side of the field) should be equally perceived by agents of both teams. This is consistent with that real robots on the field see the same flag on the field in equal colors. If you label the flags with "my" / "opponent", this is a _semantic_ annotation of the flag that can't be found on the soccer field. The vision perceptor should only deliver the syntactic label of the flag, and the intelligence of deciding which side the flags belong to should be in the agent, not in the simulator. So IMHO, flipping the labels should be removed from the perceptor, and using "left" for the left flags of teams of either side isn't any better than the original labels. cheers Oliver -- Oliver Obst ES208 form follows function (Louis Sullivan). Fon: +61 2 492 16175 http://oliver.obst.eu/ Uni Newcastle School of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science |
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From: Joschka B. <jbo...@un...> - 2007-06-18 12:40:53
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Hi, On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 22:06 +1000, Oliver Obst wrote: > On 18/06/2007, at 8:42 PM, Joschka Boedecker wrote: > > >>> To be more consistent, we may avoid using left and right for the > >>> flags > >>> altogether. For example, we may call: our flags and opponent > >>> flags! And we > >>> may use left and right instead of 1 and 2 which are used > >>> currently. So, we > >>> will have "our left flag(FLO), our right flag (FRO),..."!! (This > >>> is an > >>> example only). > >>> > >> > >> Good idea! This is what exactly my mean ;-) > >> This is useful while teams design strategy and formation, I think. > >> > >> Joschka, will we use the new flag names? > > > > I think it's a good idea. But we should choose different names from > > "our" and "opponent" (both start with 'O' ;-) ). How about "my > > team" (M) > > and "opponent team" (0). So it would look like: > > I'm not sure if I missed something, but as far as I understood the > discussion so far, I don't agree it's a good idea. > > The flag names (with "left" and "right" for flags on the left/right > side of the field) should be equally perceived by agents of both teams. > This is consistent with that real robots on the field see the same > flag on the field in equal colors. True. > If you label the flags with "my" / "opponent", this is a _semantic_ > annotation of the flag that can't be found on the soccer field. The > vision perceptor should only deliver the syntactic label of the flag, > and the intelligence of deciding which side the flags belong to > should be in the agent, not in the simulator. Wasn't there something like flipping the labels in the old simulator? Maybe I'm completely wrong though, I didn't check... > So IMHO, flipping the labels should be removed from the perceptor, > and using "left" for the left flags of teams of either side isn't any > better than the original labels. OK, so we leave the old labels and remove the flipping? Cheers, Joschka |
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From: Oliver O. <Oli...@ne...> - 2007-06-18 12:59:53
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Hi, On 18/06/2007, at 10:40 PM, Joschka Boedecker wrote: > Wasn't there something like flipping the labels in the old simulator? > Maybe I'm completely wrong though, I didn't check... If I remember correctly, in rcssserver3D, there was the method FlipView that was used when the sensor delivered the absolute player coordinates (mypos ...). This information was intended for debug purposes only, it was required to deliver the same coordinates for players independent on the side they were playing on. Flag names haven't been changed for teams of one side (I think). > OK, so we leave the old labels and remove the flipping? well, if you ask me, yes. Moreover, the change isn't technically necessary, and teams have enough work to catch up with the current changes. cheers Oliver -- Oliver Obst ES208 form follows function (Louis Sullivan). Fon: +61 2 492 16175 http://oliver.obst.eu/ Uni Newcastle School of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science |
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From: Hedayat V. <hed...@ai...> - 2007-06-18 15:15:37
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Hi, Yes, I'm agree! (in fact, we've used something similar in our 3D teams:)) However, the last line should be FRM....................FRO! :) Cheers, Hedayat /*Joschka Boedecker <jbo...@un...>*/ wrote on 06/18/2007 02:12:44 PM: > Hi, > > On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 16:34 +0800, Yuan Xu wrote: > >> Hi Hedayat, >> >> >> >>> There is a problem; currently the right team can't think that they are on >>> the left because: 1. the init message says: (team right) 2. All of the game >>> states use "right" for that team (e.g. KickOffRight). I just want to say >>> that it would be better if we use "left" and "right" consistently. >>> To be more consistent, we may avoid using left and right for the flags >>> altogether. For example, we may call: our flags and opponent flags! And we >>> may use left and right instead of 1 and 2 which are used currently. So, we >>> will have "our left flag(FLO), our right flag (FRO),..."!! (This is an >>> example only). >>> >>> >> Good idea! This is what exactly my mean ;-) >> This is useful while teams design strategy and formation, I think. >> >> Joschka, will we use the new flag names? >> > > I think it's a good idea. But we should choose different names from > "our" and "opponent" (both start with 'O' ;-) ). How about "my team" (M) > and "opponent team" (0). So it would look like: > > FLM....................FLO > > GLM....................GLO > > GRM....................GRO > > FLM....................FLO > > ...for the one team, and flipped for the other team, right? > > Cheers, > Joschka > > |
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From: Jan M. <mu...@un...> - 2007-06-18 13:17:53
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Joschka Boedecker wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 22:06 +1000, Oliver Obst wrote: > >> On 18/06/2007, at 8:42 PM, Joschka Boedecker wrote: >> >>>>> To be more consistent, we may avoid using left and right for the >>>>> flags >>>>> altogether. For example, we may call: our flags and opponent >>>>> flags! And we >>>>> may use left and right instead of 1 and 2 which are used >>>>> currently. So, we >>>>> will have "our left flag(FLO), our right flag (FRO),..."!! (This >>>>> is an >>>>> example only). >>>>> >>>> Good idea! This is what exactly my mean ;-) >>>> This is useful while teams design strategy and formation, I think. >>>> >>>> Joschka, will we use the new flag names? >>> I think it's a good idea. But we should choose different names from >>> "our" and "opponent" (both start with 'O' ;-) ). How about "my >>> team" (M) >>> and "opponent team" (0). So it would look like: >> I'm not sure if I missed something, but as far as I understood the >> discussion so far, I don't agree it's a good idea. >> >> The flag names (with "left" and "right" for flags on the left/right >> side of the field) should be equally perceived by agents of both teams. >> This is consistent with that real robots on the field see the same >> flag on the field in equal colors. > > True. >> If you label the flags with "my" / "opponent", this is a _semantic_ >> annotation of the flag that can't be found on the soccer field. The >> vision perceptor should only deliver the syntactic label of the flag, >> and the intelligence of deciding which side the flags belong to >> should be in the agent, not in the simulator. > > Wasn't there something like flipping the labels in the old simulator? > Maybe I'm completely wrong though, I didn't check... I checked the visionperceptor of version 0.4. There all (x/y)-coordinates were multiplied with -1 for the right team for the static and dynamic axis percept. I think this goes back to the time before we used the dynamic axis. In those days ;-) it was easier to say the x-axis points towards the opponent goal. What I didn't get from the previous discussion is whether only the flag/goal labels should be flipped, or all positions should be flipped. >> So IMHO, flipping the labels should be removed from the perceptor, >> and using "left" for the left flags of teams of either side isn't any >> better than the original labels. In this case we could perhaps replace left and right with yellow and blue. This avoids confusion if you move the camera round and the yellow goal is on the right, suddenly. ;) But then we should apply this to the gamestateperceptor as well. > OK, so we leave the old labels and remove the flipping? This would be like 2D. IIRC the vision in the 2D simulator was exactly as Oliver proposed. I tend to agree with Oliver. It's easy for a team to implement a flip based on their side, but it's (unnecessary) overhead for the simulator. Bye, Jan |
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