From: Jamie T. <ja...@th...> - 2011-10-31 00:55:06
|
Hello everyone, I've been trying to understand what is going on with a set of SMW templates that I'm working on. I'm getting really erratic results, and I'm pretty sure that the issue is the order in which templates are executed and how that affects properties and internal objects. Any help in understanding what is going on here would be really appreciated. Would love to know if I'm just doing this the wrong way. In short, I've got a wiki for my book club. We have a page for books we read, and that page has a form/template that sets a number of properties. It also has a 2nd form/template that can occur 0..n times to add some semantic internal objects. Sort of like this… http://rwbookclub.com/wiki/The_Master_Switch [[Book]] -> {{Book…}} -> many internal properties set -> {{Show star rating for book…}} [[Book]] -> {{Rating…}} -> sets semantic internal objects The Book template also has an {{#ask…}} query that looks for the SIO data. The {{Show star rating for book}} template queries the SIO objects set by {{Rating}} and displays, a star rating. Both the ask query and the template call to {{Show star rating for book}} are inconsistent. If I force the page refresh I get no ratings in return to the #ask, even though the there are three calls to {{Rating}} in the page. Sometimes though it will work. Now, I assumed this was some order of operation problem so I tried moving all the {{Rating}} template calls in front of the {{Book}} template, but that didn't seem to make a bit of difference. How does the order of processing work on a page like this? Any suggestions how I can structure the templates for these so it works properly? Jamie Thingelstad ja...@th... mobile: 612-810-3699 find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn |
From: Dan B. <dan...@gm...> - 2011-10-31 12:39:15
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Caching can be problematic when calling templates that have dynamic results. i.e. refreshing the page isn't always enough (I think). Try disabling caching to debug your templates. You can leave it off if it isn't a performance hit, or turn it back on once you've debugged your wiki. If you turn it back on, you can periodically purge the cache by setting up a cron job (actually I don't know exactly how to do that, as I usually end up leaving it off). http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ#How_do_I_completely_disable_caching.3F HTH, Dan. On 31 October 2011 00:39, Jamie Thingelstad <ja...@th...> wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've been trying to understand what is going on with a set of SMW templates that I'm working on. I'm getting really erratic results, and I'm pretty sure that the issue is the order in which templates are executed and how that affects properties and internal objects. Any help in understanding what is going on here would be really appreciated. Would love to know if I'm just doing this the wrong way. > > In short, I've got a wiki for my book club. We have a page for books we read, and that page has a form/template that sets a number of properties. It also has a 2nd form/template that can occur 0..n times to add some semantic internal objects. Sort of like this… > > http://rwbookclub.com/wiki/The_Master_Switch > > [[Book]] -> {{Book…}} -> many internal properties set -> {{Show star rating for book…}} > [[Book]] -> {{Rating…}} -> sets semantic internal objects > > The Book template also has an {{#ask…}} query that looks for the SIO data. The {{Show star rating for book}} template queries the SIO objects set by {{Rating}} and displays, a star rating. > > Both the ask query and the template call to {{Show star rating for book}} are inconsistent. If I force the page refresh I get no ratings in return to the #ask, even though the there are three calls to {{Rating}} in the page. Sometimes though it will work. > > Now, I assumed this was some order of operation problem so I tried moving all the {{Rating}} template calls in front of the {{Book}} template, but that didn't seem to make a bit of difference. > > How does the order of processing work on a page like this? Any suggestions how I can structure the templates for these so it works properly? > Jamie Thingelstad > ja...@th... > mobile: 612-810-3699 > find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook > in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps > for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and simple > it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev > > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > > |
From: Jamie T. <ja...@th...> - 2011-11-01 23:41:54
|
Thanks for the reply Dan, I should have mentioned that I'm seeing this behavior both with caching and without it. Even with everything disabled I still get bad results. I think it must have something to do with the order the templates are executed? But then again, when I change the order of templates it does not fix it. Any other recommendations would be very welcome… Cheers, Jamie On Oct 31, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Dan Bolser wrote: > Caching can be problematic when calling templates that have dynamic > results. i.e. refreshing the page isn't always enough (I think). > > Try disabling caching to debug your templates. You can leave it off if > it isn't a performance hit, or turn it back on once you've debugged > your wiki. If you turn it back on, you can periodically purge the > cache by setting up a cron job (actually I don't know exactly how to > do that, as I usually end up leaving it off). > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ#How_do_I_completely_disable_caching.3F > > > HTH, > Dan. > > On 31 October 2011 00:39, Jamie Thingelstad <ja...@th...> wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> I've been trying to understand what is going on with a set of SMW templates that I'm working on. I'm getting really erratic results, and I'm pretty sure that the issue is the order in which templates are executed and how that affects properties and internal objects. Any help in understanding what is going on here would be really appreciated. Would love to know if I'm just doing this the wrong way. >> >> In short, I've got a wiki for my book club. We have a page for books we read, and that page has a form/template that sets a number of properties. It also has a 2nd form/template that can occur 0..n times to add some semantic internal objects. Sort of like this… >> >> http://rwbookclub.com/wiki/The_Master_Switch >> >> [[Book]] -> {{Book…}} -> many internal properties set -> {{Show star rating for book…}} >> [[Book]] -> {{Rating…}} -> sets semantic internal objects >> >> The Book template also has an {{#ask…}} query that looks for the SIO data. The {{Show star rating for book}} template queries the SIO objects set by {{Rating}} and displays, a star rating. >> >> Both the ask query and the template call to {{Show star rating for book}} are inconsistent. If I force the page refresh I get no ratings in return to the #ask, even though the there are three calls to {{Rating}} in the page. Sometimes though it will work. >> >> Now, I assumed this was some order of operation problem so I tried moving all the {{Rating}} template calls in front of the {{Book}} template, but that didn't seem to make a bit of difference. >> >> How does the order of processing work on a page like this? Any suggestions how I can structure the templates for these so it works properly? >> Jamie Thingelstad >> ja...@th... >> mobile: 612-810-3699 >> find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook >> in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps >> for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and simple >> it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Semediawiki-user mailing list >> Sem...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user >> >> Jamie Thingelstad ja...@th... mobile: 612-810-3699 find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn |
From: Yaron K. <ya...@wi...> - 2011-11-02 01:50:31
|
Hi Jamie, The order of the templates on the page shouldn't matter - when the page is saved, all the semantic data is stored, including the SIO data. Afterwards, accessing the page should lead to the queries on the page retrieving the right data; though a refresh might not be necessary. Can you point to a page on the wiki where this isn't working? -Yaron On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Jamie Thingelstad <ja...@th...> wrote: > Thanks for the reply Dan, > > I should have mentioned that I'm seeing this behavior both with caching and without it. Even with everything disabled I still get bad results. > > I think it must have something to do with the order the templates are executed? But then again, when I change the order of templates it does not fix it. > > Any other recommendations would be very welcome… > > Cheers, > > Jamie > > On Oct 31, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Dan Bolser wrote: > >> Caching can be problematic when calling templates that have dynamic >> results. i.e. refreshing the page isn't always enough (I think). >> >> Try disabling caching to debug your templates. You can leave it off if >> it isn't a performance hit, or turn it back on once you've debugged >> your wiki. If you turn it back on, you can periodically purge the >> cache by setting up a cron job (actually I don't know exactly how to >> do that, as I usually end up leaving it off). >> >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ#How_do_I_completely_disable_caching.3F >> >> >> HTH, >> Dan. >> >> On 31 October 2011 00:39, Jamie Thingelstad <ja...@th...> wrote: >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> I've been trying to understand what is going on with a set of SMW templates that I'm working on. I'm getting really erratic results, and I'm pretty sure that the issue is the order in which templates are executed and how that affects properties and internal objects. Any help in understanding what is going on here would be really appreciated. Would love to know if I'm just doing this the wrong way. >>> >>> In short, I've got a wiki for my book club. We have a page for books we read, and that page has a form/template that sets a number of properties. It also has a 2nd form/template that can occur 0..n times to add some semantic internal objects. Sort of like this… >>> >>> http://rwbookclub.com/wiki/The_Master_Switch >>> >>> [[Book]] -> {{Book…}} -> many internal properties set -> {{Show star rating for book…}} >>> [[Book]] -> {{Rating…}} -> sets semantic internal objects >>> >>> The Book template also has an {{#ask…}} query that looks for the SIO data. The {{Show star rating for book}} template queries the SIO objects set by {{Rating}} and displays, a star rating. >>> >>> Both the ask query and the template call to {{Show star rating for book}} are inconsistent. If I force the page refresh I get no ratings in return to the #ask, even though the there are three calls to {{Rating}} in the page. Sometimes though it will work. >>> >>> Now, I assumed this was some order of operation problem so I tried moving all the {{Rating}} template calls in front of the {{Book}} template, but that didn't seem to make a bit of difference. >>> >>> How does the order of processing work on a page like this? Any suggestions how I can structure the templates for these so it works properly? >>> Jamie Thingelstad >>> ja...@th... >>> mobile: 612-810-3699 >>> find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook >>> in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps >>> for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and simple >>> it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Semediawiki-user mailing list >>> Sem...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user >>> >>> > > Jamie Thingelstad > ja...@th... > mobile: 612-810-3699 > find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > RSA® Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > > -- WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com |
From: Jamie T. <ja...@th...> - 2011-11-02 12:12:34
|
Hello Yaron, Thanks for the reply and I'm glad to hear the order of templates shouldn't matter. Here is an example page that has this problem: http://rwbookclub.com/wiki/The_Master_Switch [[Book]] -> {{Book…}} -> many internal properties set -> {{Show star rating for book…}} [[Book]] -> {{Rating…}} -> sets semantic internal objects I'm doing a bunch of other stuff with SIO (e.g., transit journal and weight journal) and that is solid. I can't figure out what I'm doing with these that causes issue. Note, one pattern I can seem to repeat. If I edit the Book template the pages are rebuilt and the snippets show up with a proper rating [1]. If I then edit the page (no change, just do a save) they are gone [2]. Very confusing... [1] Snippets: [2] No snippets: PS: I know I'm 1 version behind on my extensions (http://rwbookclub.com/wiki/Special:Version)... Jamie Thingelstad ja...@th... mobile: 612-810-3699 find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn On Nov 1, 2011, at 8:50 PM, Yaron Koren wrote: > Hi Jamie, > > The order of the templates on the page shouldn't matter - when the > page is saved, all the semantic data is stored, including the SIO > data. Afterwards, accessing the page should lead to the queries on the > page retrieving the right data; though a refresh might not be > necessary. > > Can you point to a page on the wiki where this isn't working? > > -Yaron > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Jamie Thingelstad <ja...@th...> wrote: >> Thanks for the reply Dan, >> >> I should have mentioned that I'm seeing this behavior both with caching and without it. Even with everything disabled I still get bad results. >> >> I think it must have something to do with the order the templates are executed? But then again, when I change the order of templates it does not fix it. >> >> Any other recommendations would be very welcome… >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jamie >> >> On Oct 31, 2011, at 7:39 AM, Dan Bolser wrote: >> >>> Caching can be problematic when calling templates that have dynamic >>> results. i.e. refreshing the page isn't always enough (I think). >>> >>> Try disabling caching to debug your templates. You can leave it off if >>> it isn't a performance hit, or turn it back on once you've debugged >>> your wiki. If you turn it back on, you can periodically purge the >>> cache by setting up a cron job (actually I don't know exactly how to >>> do that, as I usually end up leaving it off). >>> >>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ#How_do_I_completely_disable_caching.3F >>> >>> >>> HTH, >>> Dan. >>> >>> On 31 October 2011 00:39, Jamie Thingelstad <ja...@th...> wrote: >>>> Hello everyone, >>>> >>>> I've been trying to understand what is going on with a set of SMW templates that I'm working on. I'm getting really erratic results, and I'm pretty sure that the issue is the order in which templates are executed and how that affects properties and internal objects. Any help in understanding what is going on here would be really appreciated. Would love to know if I'm just doing this the wrong way. >>>> >>>> In short, I've got a wiki for my book club. We have a page for books we read, and that page has a form/template that sets a number of properties. It also has a 2nd form/template that can occur 0..n times to add some semantic internal objects. Sort of like this… >>>> >>>> http://rwbookclub.com/wiki/The_Master_Switch >>>> >>>> [[Book]] -> {{Book…}} -> many internal properties set -> {{Show star rating for book…}} >>>> [[Book]] -> {{Rating…}} -> sets semantic internal objects >>>> >>>> The Book template also has an {{#ask…}} query that looks for the SIO data. The {{Show star rating for book}} template queries the SIO objects set by {{Rating}} and displays, a star rating. >>>> >>>> Both the ask query and the template call to {{Show star rating for book}} are inconsistent. If I force the page refresh I get no ratings in return to the #ask, even though the there are three calls to {{Rating}} in the page. Sometimes though it will work. >>>> >>>> Now, I assumed this was some order of operation problem so I tried moving all the {{Rating}} template calls in front of the {{Book}} template, but that didn't seem to make a bit of difference. >>>> >>>> How does the order of processing work on a page like this? Any suggestions how I can structure the templates for these so it works properly? >>>> Jamie Thingelstad >>>> ja...@th... >>>> mobile: 612-810-3699 >>>> find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook >>>> in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps >>>> for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and simple >>>> it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Semediawiki-user mailing list >>>> Sem...@li... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user >>>> >>>> >> >> Jamie Thingelstad >> ja...@th... >> mobile: 612-810-3699 >> find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> RSA® Conference 2012 >> Save $700 by Nov 18 >> Register now! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 >> _______________________________________________ >> Semediawiki-user mailing list >> Sem...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user >> >> > > > > -- > WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com |
From: Yaron K. <ya...@wi...> - 2011-11-02 12:36:14
|
Hi Jamie, First of all, your ratings-to-star-display system is really cool! I looked through the templates, and it's an impressive use of #switch and the like. For the lack of saving of internal objects - I don't know exactly what is causing that, but resaving the page should fix it. In your case, it looks like you haven't actually resaved the pages - in MediaWiki, if you make no changes to a page, and then hit "Save", the wiki ignores it. You'll have to make at least a minor modification to the page, like adding or removing a newline or something. -Yaron On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Jamie Thingelstad <ja...@th...>wrote: > Hello Yaron, > > Thanks for the reply and I'm glad to hear the order of templates shouldn't > matter. > > Here is an example page that has this problem: > > http://rwbookclub.com/wiki/The_Master_Switch > > [[Book]] -> {{Book…}} -> many internal properties set -> {{Show star > rating for book…}} > [[Book]] -> {{Rating…}} -> sets semantic internal objects > > > I'm doing a bunch of other stuff with SIO (e.g., transit journal and > weight journal) and that is solid. I can't figure out what I'm doing with > these that causes issue. > > Note, one pattern I can seem to repeat. If I edit the Book template the > pages are rebuilt and the snippets show up with a proper rating [1]. If I > then edit the page (no change, just do a save) they are gone [2]. Very > confusing... > |
From: Jamie T. <ja...@th...> - 2011-11-03 00:35:43
|
Thank you for looking into it Yaron… And if by "really cool" you mean "nearly unreadable and very confusing" then you are spot on about my templates. :-) I guess I'll try upgrading all the extensions to the latest versions, although I don't expect that to help. And then take it from there… I'll ping the group when and if I know more. Jamie On Nov 2, 2011, at 7:36 AM, Yaron Koren wrote: > Hi Jamie, > > First of all, your ratings-to-star-display system is really cool! I looked through the templates, and it's an impressive use of #switch and the like. > > For the lack of saving of internal objects - I don't know exactly what is causing that, but resaving the page should fix it. In your case, it looks like you haven't actually resaved the pages - in MediaWiki, if you make no changes to a page, and then hit "Save", the wiki ignores it. You'll have to make at least a minor modification to the page, like adding or removing a newline or something. > > -Yaron > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Jamie Thingelstad <ja...@th...> wrote: > Hello Yaron, > > Thanks for the reply and I'm glad to hear the order of templates shouldn't matter. > > Here is an example page that has this problem: > > http://rwbookclub.com/wiki/The_Master_Switch > > [[Book]] -> {{Book…}} -> many internal properties set -> {{Show star rating for book…}} > [[Book]] -> {{Rating…}} -> sets semantic internal objects > > I'm doing a bunch of other stuff with SIO (e.g., transit journal and weight journal) and that is solid. I can't figure out what I'm doing with these that causes issue. > > Note, one pattern I can seem to repeat. If I edit the Book template the pages are rebuilt and the snippets show up with a proper rating [1]. If I then edit the page (no change, just do a save) they are gone [2]. Very confusing... Jamie Thingelstad ja...@th... mobile: 612-810-3699 find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn |