From: Alex K. <ak...@cr...> - 2009-09-29 01:22:33
|
Hi all, I was wondering if anyone out there had really good examples of an international SMW instance with multiple languages, including properties and forms. I am interested in methods for maintaining a form's structure and array mappings in a centralized location, but allowing things like the form name, template call, content, etc. to be in different languages. This way, one could maintain a single form but allow those changes to propagate among the language versions. And I'm interested in the same thing with properties... as in, allowing different properties in the wiki to be equated with each other but containing different text. For example, [[prop1::x]] is the same as [[prop2:y]], since the meaning of prop1 is the same as prop 2 and the meaning of x is the same as y (but are just expressed with different characters). Any thoughts or insights on internationalizing the mechanics of SMW are appreciated. - Alex -- Alex Kozak Education Program Assistant ccLearn, Creative Commons |
From: Temlakos <tem...@gm...> - 2009-09-29 02:27:00
|
Well, Alex, I haven't implemented Semantic Forms just yet. But I /have/ implemented SMW across languages. You can see this at: <http://creationwiki.org/> and <http://creationwiki.org/fr/> Here's how I do it: As I have said many times before, I routinely declare all properties. And every declaration that is implemented in both languages, has the language-specific Interwiki prefix added, so that you can follow a property declaration from one language to the other and back. All that is involved is making parallel property declarations and placing Interwiki language links in each one. In general: a multilingual wiki is actually a family of wikis, each set up in its own language. The important part is to make sure that the SMW language files exist in each language in which you are planning to implement SMW. Right now the language support is a little thin, in comparison to the incredible multiplicity of languages on Wikipedia. So those of you who are trying to persuade Wikipedia to implement SMW across their project will have an immediate problem: you don't support more than a handful of the languages they use. For my part, our wiki has been in existence for four years now, and I've made sure that, at a minimum, we have appropriate language support for every language that we are reaching out in. In one case (ko), that required me to machine-generate a language file; in two other cases (pt, ru), I had help from a friend who spoke the language as a native. So you can solve the problem, all right, so long as you create a developer's handbook for the development staff for every language-specific version of the wiki involved. Because unless you can recruit the speakers of other languages directly into your project, anyone who implements SMW in an unsupported language is going to have to write a language file. And make sure that his language is supported in SMW_Aliases.php and SMW_Messages.php. Temlakos Alex Kozak wrote: > Hi all, > > I was wondering if anyone out there had really good examples of an > international SMW instance with multiple languages, including > properties and forms. > > I am interested in methods for maintaining a form's structure and > array mappings in a centralized location, but allowing things like the > form name, template call, content, etc. to be in different languages. > This way, one could maintain a single form but allow those changes to > propagate among the language versions. > > And I'm interested in the same thing with properties... as in, > allowing different properties in the wiki to be equated with each > other but containing different text. For example, [[prop1::x]] is the > same as [[prop2:y]], since the meaning of prop1 is the same as prop 2 > and the meaning of x is the same as y (but are just expressed with > different characters). Any thoughts or insights on internationalizing > the mechanics of SMW are appreciated. > > - Alex > > -- > Alex Kozak > Education Program Assistant > ccLearn, Creative Commons > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > |
From: david <dv...@en...> - 2009-09-29 08:55:34
|
Hi, I'm working right now in a wiki like this. I don't have solutions for all yet. 'HKp wiki' is a bilingual (potentially multilingual) spanish-catalan wiki in the same installation. http://enlloc.net/hkp/w I'm using Polyglot extension [1] to redirect to appropriate language pages depending on the browser language settings or the user wiki settings. I'm using Language Selector extension [2] for providing a language selector for every page in the sidebar. I wanted to use the Multilang extension [3] for changing the language in pages and forms depending on the user settings. But unfortunately this extension don't work in MW higher of 1.10. Alternatively I'm using the {{international}} template [4]. It is useful for pages and templates but not for forms because it need a {{SUBPAGENAME}} with language code (/ca, /es, /en, /fr, /pt, ...). I'm using my own code in templates [5] to show or hide a "translation button" depending if the translation page exist or not: {{#ifeq:{{SUBPAGENAME}}|es| {{exists | page={{NAMESPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/ca | then= | else= <p style="margin-top:2em; color: rgb(100, 100, 100)">'''Traducción'''<br>[[Categoria:Per traduir al Castellà]] <small>Esta página aún no está en catalán. Quieres colaborar a traducirla?</small></p> {{#formlink:Entrada Wlog traduir ca|Traducir al catalán|button| preload={{FULLPAGENAME}}&Gestió traduccions[pàgina original]={{BASEPAGENAME}}&Entrada Wlog[llengua entrada]=es&namespace=Wlog }} }} }} Right now I have not solution for having only one form for all languages. What is annoying. If Multilang worked for new MW versions it would serve for the forms. I'm studing how to match same properties and same values in different languages as you say. I do not have a solution yet. Philipp Zaltenbach, Temlakos and Yaron Koren have proposed different aproaches some time ago in this list [6] that I am taking into account. [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Polyglot [2] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:LanguageSelector [3] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Multilang [4] http://enlloc.net/hkp/w/index.php/Plantilla:International [5] http://enlloc.net/hkp/w/index.php/Plantilla:Entrada_Wlog [6] Thread: [Semediawiki-user] multilingual SMW+SF wiki - Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:45:00 +0200 El dl 28 de 09 de 2009 a les 17:17 -0700, en/na Alex Kozak va escriure: > Hi all, > > I was wondering if anyone out there had really good examples of an > international SMW instance with multiple languages, including > properties and forms. > > I am interested in methods for maintaining a form's structure and > array mappings in a centralized location, but allowing things like the > form name, template call, content, etc. to be in different languages. > This way, one could maintain a single form but allow those changes to > propagate among the language versions. > > And I'm interested in the same thing with properties... as in, > allowing different properties in the wiki to be equated with each > other but containing different text. For example, [[prop1::x]] is the > same as [[prop2:y]], since the meaning of prop1 is the same as prop 2 > and the meaning of x is the same as y (but are just expressed with > different characters). Any thoughts or insights on internationalizing > the mechanics of SMW are appreciated. > > - Alex > > -- > Alex Kozak > Education Program Assistant > ccLearn, Creative Commons > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf > _______________________________________________ Semediawiki-user mailing list Sem...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user |
From: Alex K. <ak...@cr...> - 2009-09-29 17:14:42
|
Thank you David and Temlakos for the very helpful comments. As far as I can tell, these solutions still have the problem of multiple forms. For example, you can't have one common form but in different languages so that any change to the structure of the form gets updated in each language version. I'm still interested in trying to solve that problem. - Alex On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:50 AM, david <dv...@en...> wrote: > Hi, I'm working right now in a wiki like this. I don't have solutions > for all yet. > > 'HKp wiki' is a bilingual (potentially multilingual) spanish-catalan > wiki in the same installation. > http://enlloc.net/hkp/w > > I'm using Polyglot extension [1] to redirect to appropriate language > pages depending on the browser language settings or the user wiki > settings. > > I'm using Language Selector extension [2] for providing a language > selector for every page in the sidebar. > > I wanted to use the Multilang extension [3] for changing the language in > pages and forms depending on the user settings. But unfortunately this > extension don't work in MW higher of 1.10. > > Alternatively I'm using the {{international}} template [4]. It is useful > for pages and templates but not for forms because it need a > {{SUBPAGENAME}} with language code (/ca, /es, /en, /fr, /pt, ...). > > I'm using my own code in templates [5] to show or hide a "translation > button" depending if the translation page exist or not: > > {{#ifeq:{{SUBPAGENAME}}|es| > {{exists | page={{NAMESPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/ca | then= | else= > <p style="margin-top:2em; color: rgb(100, 100, > 100)">'''Traducción'''<br>[[Categoria:Per traduir al Castellà]] > <small>Esta página aún no está en catalán. Quieres colaborar a > traducirla?</small></p> > {{#formlink:Entrada Wlog traduir ca|Traducir al catalán|button| > preload={{FULLPAGENAME}}&Gestió traduccions[pàgina > original]={{BASEPAGENAME}}&Entrada Wlog[llengua > entrada]=es&namespace=Wlog }} > }} > }} > > Right now I have not solution for having only one form for all > languages. What is annoying. > If Multilang worked for new MW versions it would serve for the forms. > > I'm studing how to match same properties and same values in different > languages as you say. I do not have a solution yet. > Philipp Zaltenbach, Temlakos and Yaron Koren have proposed different > aproaches some time ago in this list [6] that I am taking into account. > > [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Polyglot > [2] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:LanguageSelector > [3] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Multilang > [4] http://enlloc.net/hkp/w/index.php/Plantilla:International > [5] http://enlloc.net/hkp/w/index.php/Plantilla:Entrada_Wlog > [6] Thread: [Semediawiki-user] multilingual SMW+SF wiki - Thu, 23 Jul > 2009 09:45:00 +0200 > > El dl 28 de 09 de 2009 a les 17:17 -0700, en/na Alex Kozak va escriure: > > Hi all, > > > > I was wondering if anyone out there had really good examples of an > > international SMW instance with multiple languages, including > > properties and forms. > > > > I am interested in methods for maintaining a form's structure and > > array mappings in a centralized location, but allowing things like the > > form name, template call, content, etc. to be in different languages. > > This way, one could maintain a single form but allow those changes to > > propagate among the language versions. > > > > And I'm interested in the same thing with properties... as in, > > allowing different properties in the wiki to be equated with each > > other but containing different text. For example, [[prop1::x]] is the > > same as [[prop2:y]], since the meaning of prop1 is the same as prop 2 > > and the meaning of x is the same as y (but are just expressed with > > different characters). Any thoughts or insights on internationalizing > > the mechanics of SMW are appreciated. > > > > - Alex > > > > -- > > Alex Kozak > > Education Program Assistant > > ccLearn, Creative Commons > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference in SF, CA > > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your > > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay > > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. Register > now! > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf > > _______________________________________________ Semediawiki-user mailing > list Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > > -- Alex Kozak Education Program Assistant ccLearn, Creative Commons |
From: david <dv...@en...> - 2009-09-29 17:16:29
|
El dt 29 de 09 de 2009 a les 09:52 -0700, en/na Alex Kozak va escriure: > Thank you David and Temlakos for the very helpful comments. > > As far as I can tell, these solutions still have the problem of > multiple forms. For example, you can't have one common form but in > different languages so that any change to the structure of the form > gets updated in each language version. I'm still interested in trying > to solve that problem. > > - Alex Yes, I understand what you mean because I would want the same. But I have not found a solution for this, for the time being. Is necessary a solution to show the labels in a language or another depending on the language chosen by the user. Multilang might be it, but it does not work for current versions of MW. :-( - David. > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:50 AM, david <dv...@en...> wrote: > Hi, I'm working right now in a wiki like this. I don't have > solutions > for all yet. > > 'HKp wiki' is a bilingual (potentially multilingual) > spanish-catalan > wiki in the same installation. > http://enlloc.net/hkp/w > > I'm using Polyglot extension [1] to redirect to appropriate > language > pages depending on the browser language settings or the user > wiki > settings. > > I'm using Language Selector extension [2] for providing a > language > selector for every page in the sidebar. > > I wanted to use the Multilang extension [3] for changing the > language in > pages and forms depending on the user settings. But > unfortunately this > extension don't work in MW higher of 1.10. > > Alternatively I'm using the {{international}} template [4]. It > is useful > for pages and templates but not for forms because it need a > {{SUBPAGENAME}} with language code > (/ca, /es, /en, /fr, /pt, ...). > > I'm using my own code in templates [5] to show or hide a > "translation > button" depending if the translation page exist or not: > > {{#ifeq:{{SUBPAGENAME}}|es| > {{exists | page={{NAMESPACE}}:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/ca | then= | > else= > <p style="margin-top:2em; color: rgb(100, 100, > 100)">'''Traducción'''<br>[[Categoria:Per traduir al > Castellà]] > <small>Esta página aún no está en catalán. Quieres colaborar a > traducirla?</small></p> > {{#formlink:Entrada Wlog traduir ca|Traducir al catalán| > button| > preload={{FULLPAGENAME}}&Gestió traduccions[pàgina > original]={{BASEPAGENAME}}&Entrada Wlog[llengua > entrada]=es&namespace=Wlog }} > }} > }} > > Right now I have not solution for having only one form for all > languages. What is annoying. > If Multilang worked for new MW versions it would serve for the > forms. > > I'm studing how to match same properties and same values in > different > languages as you say. I do not have a solution yet. > Philipp Zaltenbach, Temlakos and Yaron Koren have proposed > different > aproaches some time ago in this list [6] that I am taking into > account. > > [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Polyglot > [2] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:LanguageSelector > [3] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Multilang > [4] http://enlloc.net/hkp/w/index.php/Plantilla:International > [5] http://enlloc.net/hkp/w/index.php/Plantilla:Entrada_Wlog > [6] Thread: [Semediawiki-user] multilingual SMW+SF wiki - Thu, > 23 Jul > 2009 09:45:00 +0200 > > El dl 28 de 09 de 2009 a les 17:17 -0700, en/na Alex Kozak va > escriure: > > > Hi all, > > > > I was wondering if anyone out there had really good examples > of an > > international SMW instance with multiple languages, > including > > properties and forms. > > > > I am interested in methods for maintaining a form's > structure and > > array mappings in a centralized location, but allowing > things like the > > form name, template call, content, etc. to be in different > languages. > > This way, one could maintain a single form but allow those > changes to > > propagate among the language versions. > > > > And I'm interested in the same thing with properties... as > in, > > allowing different properties in the wiki to be equated with > each > > other but containing different text. For example, > [[prop1::x]] is the > > same as [[prop2:y]], since the meaning of prop1 is the same > as prop 2 > > and the meaning of x is the same as y (but are just > expressed with > > different characters). Any thoughts or insights on > internationalizing > > the mechanics of SMW are appreciated. > > > > - Alex > > > > -- > > Alex Kozak > > Education Program Assistant > > ccLearn, Creative Commons > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Come build with us! The BlackBerry® Developer Conference > in SF, CA > > is the only developer event you need to attend this year. > Jumpstart your > > developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to > market and stay > > ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9-12, 2009. > Register now! > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconf > > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-user mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user > > > > > > -- > Alex Kozak > Education Program Assistant > ccLearn, Creative Commons > |