From: Benedikt K. <ben...@ki...> - 2013-11-22 10:18:39
|
Hello Yaron, Hello Semantic forms experts, In our medical project I talked about at SMWCon [1], we have the following requirement: * We create a full-fledged form for annotating patients in an online SMW. * Physicians want to reuse that form to offline fill in the form for patients. Offline, since patient data should not be stored in the online SMW. * After a form has been filled in, its contents are not fixed. Physicians may want to modify the content at a later stage. * An RDF export of the filled-in form should be possible to be created to be stored in a secure FTP server. The only way we currently see is to have for the physicians separate offline versions of SMW with the imported template, form pages. But this seems to require a lot of effort in synchronising the online and offline SMW. Thus, we are wondering whether it would be possible to somehow export an full-fledged offline version of a form. I'm thinking of making this a seminar topic for one of our students. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, e.g., * What is your opinion about this use case? * Are there implementations one could somehow build on? * How difficult does it seem? All the best, Benedikt [1] <http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Fall_2013/Challenges_with_Annotating_Liver_Patient_Data_for_Cognition-Guided_Surgery> -- AIFB, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) Phone: +49 (721) 608 48941 Email: ben...@ki... Web: http://www.aifb.kit.edu/web/Hauptseite/en |
From: Krabina B. <kr...@kd...> - 2013-11-22 11:07:07
|
Hi Benedikt, I think your use case is VERY interesting. Are you aware of the Push extension [1]? I havent't used it yet, but it sounds promising. But having some kind of other possibility to solve your usecase would be quite intersting. -Bernhard [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Push ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----- > Hello Yaron, Hello Semantic forms experts, > > In our medical project I talked about at SMWCon [1], we have the > following requirement: > > * We create a full-fledged form for annotating patients in an online > SMW. > > * Physicians want to reuse that form to offline fill in the form for > patients. Offline, since patient data should not be stored in the > online > SMW. > > * After a form has been filled in, its contents are not fixed. > Physicians may want to modify the content at a later stage. > > * An RDF export of the filled-in form should be possible to be > created > to be stored in a secure FTP server. > > The only way we currently see is to have for the physicians separate > offline versions of SMW with the imported template, form pages. But > this > seems to require a lot of effort in synchronising the online and > offline > SMW. > > Thus, we are wondering whether it would be possible to somehow export > an > full-fledged offline version of a form. > > I'm thinking of making this a seminar topic for one of our students. > > Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, e.g., > > * What is your opinion about this use case? > * Are there implementations one could somehow build on? > * How difficult does it seem? > > All the best, > > Benedikt > > [1] > <http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Fall_2013/Challenges_with_Annotating_Liver_Patient_Data_for_Cognition-Guided_Surgery> > > -- > AIFB, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) > Phone: +49 (721) 608 48941 > Email: ben...@ki... > Web: http://www.aifb.kit.edu/web/Hauptseite/en > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription > Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech > innovation. > Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and > game-changing > conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign > up now. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > |
From: Yury K. <kat...@gm...> - 2013-11-22 12:26:43
|
Nice case! I remember the proposal to integrate Extension:Drafts with Semantic Forms but this sounds even more radical! I can tell from my journeys through SF code that this would be a challenge: the majority of form is generated on a server side. Benedikt, what do you think about using Miga for that case? ----- Yury Katkov, WikiVote On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Benedikt Kämpgen <ben...@ki...> wrote: > Hello Yaron, Hello Semantic forms experts, > > In our medical project I talked about at SMWCon [1], we have the > following requirement: > > * We create a full-fledged form for annotating patients in an online SMW. > > * Physicians want to reuse that form to offline fill in the form for > patients. Offline, since patient data should not be stored in the online > SMW. > > * After a form has been filled in, its contents are not fixed. > Physicians may want to modify the content at a later stage. > > * An RDF export of the filled-in form should be possible to be created > to be stored in a secure FTP server. > > The only way we currently see is to have for the physicians separate > offline versions of SMW with the imported template, form pages. But this > seems to require a lot of effort in synchronising the online and offline > SMW. > > Thus, we are wondering whether it would be possible to somehow export an > full-fledged offline version of a form. > > I'm thinking of making this a seminar topic for one of our students. > > Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, e.g., > > * What is your opinion about this use case? > * Are there implementations one could somehow build on? > * How difficult does it seem? > > All the best, > > Benedikt > > [1] > <http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Fall_2013/Challenges_with_Annotating_Liver_Patient_Data_for_Cognition-Guided_Surgery> > > -- > AIFB, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) > Phone: +49 (721) 608 48941 > Email: ben...@ki... > Web: http://www.aifb.kit.edu/web/Hauptseite/en > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription > Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. > Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing > conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel |
From: Yaron K. <ya...@wi...> - 2013-11-22 15:15:12
|
Hi Benedikt, I've definitely thought about offline form and data stuff, but I don't quite understand your use case: - Would the offline form be just a copy of an online form? If so, doesn't that mean that sensitive patient data *can* get put on the wiki? - If a physician stores data offline, can other physicians ever view it? - Where would the data be stored - on a single device? - Would each set of offline data have its own RDF export? - How would the RDF data be queried, if it requires FTP to access? Yury: Miga currently only does offline viewing, not offline editing. It could potentially do offline editing (which would be a very interesting addition), though it may or may not fit this particular use case. -Yaron On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Yury Katkov <kat...@gm...> wrote: > Nice case! I remember the proposal to integrate Extension:Drafts with > Semantic Forms but this sounds even more radical! I can tell from my > journeys through SF code that this would be a challenge: the majority > of form is generated on a server side. Benedikt, what do you think > about using Miga for that case? > ----- > Yury Katkov, WikiVote > > > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Benedikt Kämpgen > <ben...@ki...> wrote: > > Hello Yaron, Hello Semantic forms experts, > > > > In our medical project I talked about at SMWCon [1], we have the > > following requirement: > > > > * We create a full-fledged form for annotating patients in an online SMW. > > > > * Physicians want to reuse that form to offline fill in the form for > > patients. Offline, since patient data should not be stored in the online > > SMW. > > > > * After a form has been filled in, its contents are not fixed. > > Physicians may want to modify the content at a later stage. > > > > * An RDF export of the filled-in form should be possible to be created > > to be stored in a secure FTP server. > > > > The only way we currently see is to have for the physicians separate > > offline versions of SMW with the imported template, form pages. But this > > seems to require a lot of effort in synchronising the online and offline > > SMW. > > > > Thus, we are wondering whether it would be possible to somehow export an > > full-fledged offline version of a form. > > > > I'm thinking of making this a seminar topic for one of our students. > > > > Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, e.g., > > > > * What is your opinion about this use case? > > * Are there implementations one could somehow build on? > > * How difficult does it seem? > > > > All the best, > > > > Benedikt > > > > [1] > > < > http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Fall_2013/Challenges_with_Annotating_Liver_Patient_Data_for_Cognition-Guided_Surgery > > > > > > -- > > AIFB, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) > > Phone: +49 (721) 608 48941 > > Email: ben...@ki... > > Web: http://www.aifb.kit.edu/web/Hauptseite/en > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription > > Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. > > Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing > > conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up > now. > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > _______________________________________________ > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > > Sem...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > -- WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com |
From: Benedikt K. <ben...@ki...> - 2013-11-26 13:29:01
|
Hi, Bernhard, Yury, Yaron, Neill, thanks for your answers. @Bernhardt: the Push extension is interesting, but probably will not help, here, since no information shall be pushed to the online wiki. @Yury: One important requirement is to have elaborate forms (dropdown, etc.) and a flexible form design. Not sure whether Miga could be easily extended towards this use case. @Yaron: > - Would the offline form be just a copy of an online form? If so, > doesn't that mean that sensitive patient data *can* get put on the wiki? Ideally, the offline form would provide the same functionality (e.g., autocompletion) than the online form. However, an offline filled-in form will never be stored on SMW but rather be put as-is on a secure file server. The question is, whether "as-is" actually is possible. Apparently, we are looking for some kind of JavaScript library that allows to offline modify an HTML page with forms and to save the modified HTML page. > - If a physician stores data offline, can other physicians ever view it? The current plan is: After offline filling-in a form, the filled-in form will be put on a secure file server. From there it can be downloaded for viewing. > - Where would the data be stored - on a single device? Ideally, the offline form could be used on various workstations. When an offline form has been filled in, it is uploaded on a single secure file server. > - Would each set of offline data have its own RDF export? That is the crucial point and the reason for using SMW in the first place. The online SMW is used to define properties for patients (e.g., "has BMI"). An offline form shall now be used to fill in all properties for a patient. An RDF export of the offline form shall use the same properties as introduced by the online form. This way, we have a unique relationship between properties as defined by the online SMW and filled-in properties for a patient in an offline form. Ideally, an RDF export from an offline form would create the same RDF that would have been created if the form would have been filled-in in the online SMW. Maybe, the RDF export of the offline SMW could also be implemented using RDFa. > - How would the RDF data be queried, if it requires FTP to access? The RDF data would be downloaded on demand from the file server and for instance loaded into a triple store for querying. @Neill: > What would the Physicians use to key in the data into the form? A laptop > or PC/Mac based laptop? Probably a PC with Windows. > If this is the case there is nothing stopping them running a local copy > of MW/SMW and then simply uploading the data to the central instance (a > server somewhere I assume) using the normal MW export/import. True. We just try to avoid the additional effort of managing a local copy SMW by having offline forms that create the same RDF as an online filled-in form. I hope that makes our problem clearer. Best, Benedikt On 11/22/2013 04:15 PM, Yaron Koren wrote: > Hi Benedikt, > > I've definitely thought about offline form and data stuff, but I don't > quite understand your use case: > > - Would the offline form be just a copy of an online form? If so, > doesn't that mean that sensitive patient data *can* get put on the wiki? > > - If a physician stores data offline, can other physicians ever view it? > > - Where would the data be stored - on a single device? > > - Would each set of offline data have its own RDF export? > > - How would the RDF data be queried, if it requires FTP to access? > > Yury: Miga currently only does offline viewing, not offline editing. It > could potentially do offline editing (which would be a very interesting > addition), though it may or may not fit this particular use case. > > -Yaron > > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Yury Katkov <kat...@gm... > <mailto:kat...@gm...>> wrote: > > Nice case! I remember the proposal to integrate Extension:Drafts with > Semantic Forms but this sounds even more radical! I can tell from my > journeys through SF code that this would be a challenge: the majority > of form is generated on a server side. Benedikt, what do you think > about using Miga for that case? > ----- > Yury Katkov, WikiVote > > > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Benedikt Kämpgen > <ben...@ki... <mailto:ben...@ki...>> wrote: > > Hello Yaron, Hello Semantic forms experts, > > > > In our medical project I talked about at SMWCon [1], we have the > > following requirement: > > > > * We create a full-fledged form for annotating patients in an > online SMW. > > > > * Physicians want to reuse that form to offline fill in the form for > > patients. Offline, since patient data should not be stored in the > online > > SMW. > > > > * After a form has been filled in, its contents are not fixed. > > Physicians may want to modify the content at a later stage. > > > > * An RDF export of the filled-in form should be possible to be > created > > to be stored in a secure FTP server. > > > > The only way we currently see is to have for the physicians separate > > offline versions of SMW with the imported template, form pages. > But this > > seems to require a lot of effort in synchronising the online and > offline > > SMW. > > > > Thus, we are wondering whether it would be possible to somehow > export an > > full-fledged offline version of a form. > > > > I'm thinking of making this a seminar topic for one of our students. > > > > Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, e.g., > > > > * What is your opinion about this use case? > > * Are there implementations one could somehow build on? > > * How difficult does it seem? > > > > All the best, > > > > Benedikt > > > > [1] > > > <http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Fall_2013/Challenges_with_Annotating_Liver_Patient_Data_for_Cognition-Guided_Surgery> > > > > -- > > AIFB, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) > > Phone: +49 (721) 608 48941 <tel:%2B49%20%28721%29%20608%2048941> > > Email: ben...@ki... <mailto:ben...@ki...> > > Web: http://www.aifb.kit.edu/web/Hauptseite/en > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription > > Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech > innovation. > > Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and > game-changing > > conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. > Sign up now. > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > _______________________________________________ > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > > Sem...@li... > <mailto:Sem...@li...> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > > > > > -- > WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com -- AIFB, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) Phone: +49 (721) 608 48941 Email: ben...@ki... Web: http://www.aifb.kit.edu/web/Hauptseite/en |
From: Yaron K. <ya...@wi...> - 2013-11-26 16:30:12
|
Hi Benedikt, It could be that there's some wording confusion: by "offline", did you really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking about is people submitting data, via the internet/web, that then gets put into an external server - only one that requires a password to access; as opposed to the usual meaning of "offline", meaning something that people can do locally on their computer, without any network connection. And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have a 2nd wiki, with much more restricted viewing? -Yaron On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Benedikt Kämpgen <ben...@ki... > wrote: > Hi, > > Bernhard, Yury, Yaron, Neill, thanks for your answers. > > @Bernhardt: the Push extension is interesting, but probably will not help, > here, since no information shall be pushed to the online wiki. > > @Yury: One important requirement is to have elaborate forms (dropdown, > etc.) and a flexible form design. Not sure whether Miga could be easily > extended towards this use case. > > @Yaron: > > > > - Would the offline form be just a copy of an online form? If so, > > doesn't that mean that sensitive patient data *can* get put on the wiki? > > Ideally, the offline form would provide the same functionality (e.g., > autocompletion) than the online form. However, an offline filled-in form > will never be stored on SMW but rather be put as-is on a secure file server. > > The question is, whether "as-is" actually is possible. Apparently, we are > looking for some kind of JavaScript library that allows to offline modify > an HTML page with forms and to save the modified HTML page. > > > > - If a physician stores data offline, can other physicians ever view it? > > The current plan is: After offline filling-in a form, the filled-in form > will be put on a secure file server. From there it can be downloaded for > viewing. > > > > - Where would the data be stored - on a single device? > > Ideally, the offline form could be used on various workstations. When an > offline form has been filled in, it is uploaded on a single secure file > server. > > > > - Would each set of offline data have its own RDF export? > > That is the crucial point and the reason for using SMW in the first place. > The online SMW is used to define properties for patients (e.g., "has BMI"). > An offline form shall now be used to fill in all properties for a patient. > An RDF export of the offline form shall use the same properties as > introduced by the online form. This way, we have a unique relationship > between properties as defined by the online SMW and filled-in properties > for a patient in an offline form. Ideally, an RDF export from an offline > form would create the same RDF that would have been created if the form > would have been filled-in in the online SMW. > > Maybe, the RDF export of the offline SMW could also be implemented using > RDFa. > > > > - How would the RDF data be queried, if it requires FTP to access? > > The RDF data would be downloaded on demand from the file server and for > instance loaded into a triple store for querying. > > @Neill: > > > > What would the Physicians use to key in the data into the form? A laptop > > or PC/Mac based laptop? > > Probably a PC with Windows. > > > > If this is the case there is nothing stopping them running a local copy > > of MW/SMW and then simply uploading the data to the central instance (a > > server somewhere I assume) using the normal MW export/import. > > True. We just try to avoid the additional effort of managing a local copy > SMW by having offline forms that create the same RDF as an online filled-in > form. > > I hope that makes our problem clearer. > > Best, > > Benedikt > > |
From: Benedikt K. <ben...@ki...> - 2013-11-27 17:57:50
|
Hi Yaron, Thanks for your thoughts. > really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking about Private and offline in a sense that the form should be filled in without an internet connection. > And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have a 2nd > wiki, with much more restricted viewing? Yes, but that would basically mean in our context to have a second SMW installed on a local machine (without internet connection) for the physicians. I was hoping to find an easier way to forward a form from SMW to someone else. After a form has been filled in, we somehow need to extract the RDF from it to be stored (securely) in our knowledge base (FTP server). But I guess, this is another problem. Best, Benedikt On 11/26/2013 05:30 PM, Yaron Koren wrote: > Hi Benedikt, > > It could be that there's some wording confusion: by "offline", did you > really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking about is > people submitting data, via the internet/web, that then gets put into an > external server - only one that requires a password to access; as > opposed to the usual meaning of "offline", meaning something that people > can do locally on their computer, without any network connection. > > And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have a 2nd > wiki, with much more restricted viewing? > > -Yaron > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Benedikt Kämpgen > <ben...@ki... <mailto:ben...@ki...>> wrote: > > Hi, > > Bernhard, Yury, Yaron, Neill, thanks for your answers. > > @Bernhardt: the Push extension is interesting, but probably will not > help, here, since no information shall be pushed to the online wiki. > > @Yury: One important requirement is to have elaborate forms > (dropdown, etc.) and a flexible form design. Not sure whether Miga > could be easily extended towards this use case. > > @Yaron: > > > > - Would the offline form be just a copy of an online form? If so, > > doesn't that mean that sensitive patient data *can* get put on > the wiki? > > Ideally, the offline form would provide the same functionality > (e.g., autocompletion) than the online form. However, an offline > filled-in form will never be stored on SMW but rather be put as-is > on a secure file server. > > The question is, whether "as-is" actually is possible. Apparently, > we are looking for some kind of JavaScript library that allows to > offline modify an HTML page with forms and to save the modified HTML > page. > > > > - If a physician stores data offline, can other physicians ever > view it? > > The current plan is: After offline filling-in a form, the filled-in > form will be put on a secure file server. From there it can be > downloaded for viewing. > > > > - Where would the data be stored - on a single device? > > Ideally, the offline form could be used on various workstations. > When an offline form has been filled in, it is uploaded on a single > secure file server. > > > > - Would each set of offline data have its own RDF export? > > That is the crucial point and the reason for using SMW in the first > place. The online SMW is used to define properties for patients > (e.g., "has BMI"). An offline form shall now be used to fill in all > properties for a patient. An RDF export of the offline form shall > use the same properties as introduced by the online form. This way, > we have a unique relationship between properties as defined by the > online SMW and filled-in properties for a patient in an offline > form. Ideally, an RDF export from an offline form would create the > same RDF that would have been created if the form would have been > filled-in in the online SMW. > > Maybe, the RDF export of the offline SMW could also be implemented > using RDFa. > > > > - How would the RDF data be queried, if it requires FTP to access? > > The RDF data would be downloaded on demand from the file server and > for instance loaded into a triple store for querying. > > @Neill: > > > > What would the Physicians use to key in the data into the form? A > laptop > > or PC/Mac based laptop? > > Probably a PC with Windows. > > > > If this is the case there is nothing stopping them running a > local copy > > of MW/SMW and then simply uploading the data to the central > instance (a > > server somewhere I assume) using the normal MW export/import. > > True. We just try to avoid the additional effort of managing a local > copy SMW by having offline forms that create the same RDF as an > online filled-in form. > > I hope that makes our problem clearer. > > Best, > > Benedikt > -- AIFB, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) Phone: +49 (721) 608 48941 Email: ben...@ki... Web: http://www.aifb.kit.edu/web/Hauptseite/en |
From: Benedikt K. <ben...@ki...> - 2013-12-05 07:11:32
|
Hello, We now investigate the possibility to have "SMW-on-a-stick". Then, physicians could just start via an .exe file their own version of the online SMW, locally. They can annotate patients and upload RDF exports to the file server. Thanks again for your thoughts. Any advice on getting "SMW-on-a-stick" and possibly optimising performance would be appreciated. All the best, Benedikt On 11/27/2013 06:57 PM, Benedikt Kämpgen wrote: > Hi Yaron, > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > > really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking about > > Private and offline in a sense that the form should be filled in without > an internet connection. > > > And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have a 2nd > > wiki, with much more restricted viewing? > > Yes, but that would basically mean in our context to have a second SMW > installed on a local machine (without internet connection) for the > physicians. I was hoping to find an easier way to forward a form from > SMW to someone else. > > After a form has been filled in, we somehow need to extract the RDF from > it to be stored (securely) in our knowledge base (FTP server). But I > guess, this is another problem. > > Best, > > Benedikt > > On 11/26/2013 05:30 PM, Yaron Koren wrote: >> Hi Benedikt, >> >> It could be that there's some wording confusion: by "offline", did you >> really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking about is >> people submitting data, via the internet/web, that then gets put into an >> external server - only one that requires a password to access; as >> opposed to the usual meaning of "offline", meaning something that people >> can do locally on their computer, without any network connection. >> >> And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have a 2nd >> wiki, with much more restricted viewing? >> >> -Yaron >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Benedikt Kämpgen >> <ben...@ki... <mailto:ben...@ki...>> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Bernhard, Yury, Yaron, Neill, thanks for your answers. >> >> @Bernhardt: the Push extension is interesting, but probably will not >> help, here, since no information shall be pushed to the online wiki. >> >> @Yury: One important requirement is to have elaborate forms >> (dropdown, etc.) and a flexible form design. Not sure whether Miga >> could be easily extended towards this use case. >> >> @Yaron: >> >> >> > - Would the offline form be just a copy of an online form? If so, >> > doesn't that mean that sensitive patient data *can* get put on >> the wiki? >> >> Ideally, the offline form would provide the same functionality >> (e.g., autocompletion) than the online form. However, an offline >> filled-in form will never be stored on SMW but rather be put as-is >> on a secure file server. >> >> The question is, whether "as-is" actually is possible. Apparently, >> we are looking for some kind of JavaScript library that allows to >> offline modify an HTML page with forms and to save the modified HTML >> page. >> >> >> > - If a physician stores data offline, can other physicians ever >> view it? >> >> The current plan is: After offline filling-in a form, the filled-in >> form will be put on a secure file server. From there it can be >> downloaded for viewing. >> >> >> > - Where would the data be stored - on a single device? >> >> Ideally, the offline form could be used on various workstations. >> When an offline form has been filled in, it is uploaded on a single >> secure file server. >> >> >> > - Would each set of offline data have its own RDF export? >> >> That is the crucial point and the reason for using SMW in the first >> place. The online SMW is used to define properties for patients >> (e.g., "has BMI"). An offline form shall now be used to fill in all >> properties for a patient. An RDF export of the offline form shall >> use the same properties as introduced by the online form. This way, >> we have a unique relationship between properties as defined by the >> online SMW and filled-in properties for a patient in an offline >> form. Ideally, an RDF export from an offline form would create the >> same RDF that would have been created if the form would have been >> filled-in in the online SMW. >> >> Maybe, the RDF export of the offline SMW could also be implemented >> using RDFa. >> >> >> > - How would the RDF data be queried, if it requires FTP to access? >> >> The RDF data would be downloaded on demand from the file server and >> for instance loaded into a triple store for querying. >> >> @Neill: >> >> >> > What would the Physicians use to key in the data into the form? A >> laptop >> > or PC/Mac based laptop? >> >> Probably a PC with Windows. >> >> >> > If this is the case there is nothing stopping them running a >> local copy >> > of MW/SMW and then simply uploading the data to the central >> instance (a >> > server somewhere I assume) using the normal MW export/import. >> >> True. We just try to avoid the additional effort of managing a local >> copy SMW by having offline forms that create the same RDF as an >> online filled-in form. >> >> I hope that makes our problem clearer. >> >> Best, >> >> Benedikt >> > -- AIFB, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) Phone: +49 (721) 608 48941 Email: ben...@ki... Web: http://www.aifb.kit.edu/web/Hauptseite/en |
From: Krabina B. <kr...@kd...> - 2013-12-05 07:31:26
|
Hi Benedikt, ontoprise had a great SMW on a stick installation on a semantic web conference years ago. So you might want to ask Michael? regards, Bernhard ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----- > Hello, > > We now investigate the possibility to have "SMW-on-a-stick". Then, > physicians could just start via an .exe file their own version of the > online SMW, locally. They can annotate patients and upload RDF > exports > to the file server. > > Thanks again for your thoughts. > > Any advice on getting "SMW-on-a-stick" and possibly optimising > performance would be appreciated. > > All the best, > > Benedikt > > On 11/27/2013 06:57 PM, Benedikt Kämpgen wrote: > > Hi Yaron, > > > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > > > > really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking > > > about > > > > Private and offline in a sense that the form should be filled in > > without > > an internet connection. > > > > > And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to > > > have a 2nd > > > wiki, with much more restricted viewing? > > > > Yes, but that would basically mean in our context to have a second > > SMW > > installed on a local machine (without internet connection) for the > > physicians. I was hoping to find an easier way to forward a form > > from > > SMW to someone else. > > > > After a form has been filled in, we somehow need to extract the RDF > > from > > it to be stored (securely) in our knowledge base (FTP server). But > > I > > guess, this is another problem. > > > > Best, > > > > Benedikt > > > > On 11/26/2013 05:30 PM, Yaron Koren wrote: > >> Hi Benedikt, > >> > >> It could be that there's some wording confusion: by "offline", did > >> you > >> really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking > >> about is > >> people submitting data, via the internet/web, that then gets put > >> into an > >> external server - only one that requires a password to access; as > >> opposed to the usual meaning of "offline", meaning something that > >> people > >> can do locally on their computer, without any network connection. > >> > >> And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have > >> a 2nd > >> wiki, with much more restricted viewing? > >> > >> -Yaron > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Benedikt Kämpgen > >> <ben...@ki... <mailto:ben...@ki...>> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Bernhard, Yury, Yaron, Neill, thanks for your answers. > >> > >> @Bernhardt: the Push extension is interesting, but probably > >> will not > >> help, here, since no information shall be pushed to the > >> online wiki. > >> > >> @Yury: One important requirement is to have elaborate forms > >> (dropdown, etc.) and a flexible form design. Not sure whether > >> Miga > >> could be easily extended towards this use case. > >> > >> @Yaron: > >> > >> > >> > - Would the offline form be just a copy of an online form? > >> > If so, > >> > doesn't that mean that sensitive patient data *can* get > >> > put on > >> the wiki? > >> > >> Ideally, the offline form would provide the same > >> functionality > >> (e.g., autocompletion) than the online form. However, an > >> offline > >> filled-in form will never be stored on SMW but rather be put > >> as-is > >> on a secure file server. > >> > >> The question is, whether "as-is" actually is possible. > >> Apparently, > >> we are looking for some kind of JavaScript library that > >> allows to > >> offline modify an HTML page with forms and to save the > >> modified HTML > >> page. > >> > >> > >> > - If a physician stores data offline, can other physicians > >> > ever > >> view it? > >> > >> The current plan is: After offline filling-in a form, the > >> filled-in > >> form will be put on a secure file server. From there it can > >> be > >> downloaded for viewing. > >> > >> > >> > - Where would the data be stored - on a single device? > >> > >> Ideally, the offline form could be used on various > >> workstations. > >> When an offline form has been filled in, it is uploaded on a > >> single > >> secure file server. > >> > >> > >> > - Would each set of offline data have its own RDF export? > >> > >> That is the crucial point and the reason for using SMW in the > >> first > >> place. The online SMW is used to define properties for > >> patients > >> (e.g., "has BMI"). An offline form shall now be used to fill > >> in all > >> properties for a patient. An RDF export of the offline form > >> shall > >> use the same properties as introduced by the online form. > >> This way, > >> we have a unique relationship between properties as defined > >> by the > >> online SMW and filled-in properties for a patient in an > >> offline > >> form. Ideally, an RDF export from an offline form would > >> create the > >> same RDF that would have been created if the form would have > >> been > >> filled-in in the online SMW. > >> > >> Maybe, the RDF export of the offline SMW could also be > >> implemented > >> using RDFa. > >> > >> > >> > - How would the RDF data be queried, if it requires FTP to > >> > access? > >> > >> The RDF data would be downloaded on demand from the file > >> server and > >> for instance loaded into a triple store for querying. > >> > >> @Neill: > >> > >> > >> > What would the Physicians use to key in the data into the > >> > form? A > >> laptop > >> > or PC/Mac based laptop? > >> > >> Probably a PC with Windows. > >> > >> > >> > If this is the case there is nothing stopping them running > >> > a > >> local copy > >> > of MW/SMW and then simply uploading the data to the > >> > central > >> instance (a > >> > server somewhere I assume) using the normal MW > >> > export/import. > >> > >> True. We just try to avoid the additional effort of managing > >> a local > >> copy SMW by having offline forms that create the same RDF as > >> an > >> online filled-in form. > >> > >> I hope that makes our problem clearer. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Benedikt > >> > > > > -- > AIFB, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) > Phone: +49 (721) 608 48941 > Email: ben...@ki... > Web: http://www.aifb.kit.edu/web/Hauptseite/en > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK > Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code > base. > Download it for free now! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > |
From: Neill M. <ne...@nl...> - 2013-11-22 15:32:00
|
Hi Benedikt. What would the Physicians use to key in the data into the form? A laptop or PC/Mac based laptop? If this is the case there is nothing stopping them running a local copy of MW/SMW and then simply uploading the data to the central instance (a server somewhere I assume) using the normal MW export/import. Cheers Neill. On 22/11/13 10:18, Benedikt Kämpgen wrote: > Hello Yaron, Hello Semantic forms experts, > > In our medical project I talked about at SMWCon [1], we have the > following requirement: > > * We create a full-fledged form for annotating patients in an online SMW. > > * Physicians want to reuse that form to offline fill in the form for > patients. Offline, since patient data should not be stored in the online > SMW. > > * After a form has been filled in, its contents are not fixed. > Physicians may want to modify the content at a later stage. > > * An RDF export of the filled-in form should be possible to be created > to be stored in a secure FTP server. > > The only way we currently see is to have for the physicians separate > offline versions of SMW with the imported template, form pages. But this > seems to require a lot of effort in synchronising the online and offline > SMW. > > Thus, we are wondering whether it would be possible to somehow export an > full-fledged offline version of a form. > > I'm thinking of making this a seminar topic for one of our students. > > Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, e.g., > > * What is your opinion about this use case? > * Are there implementations one could somehow build on? > * How difficult does it seem? > > All the best, > > Benedikt > > [1] > <http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/SMWCon_Fall_2013/Challenges_with_Annotating_Liver_Patient_Data_for_Cognition-Guided_Surgery> > |
From: Neill M. <ne...@nl...> - 2013-12-05 11:13:18
|
Hi Benedikt I think this approach is definitely the way to go for your application. This may be of interest? http://wiki.uniformserver.com/index.php/USB_MediaWiki It installs a portable server and then you can just create your own custom MW/SMW instance to use. Cheers Neill. On 05/12/13 07:11, Benedikt Kämpgen wrote: > Hello, > > We now investigate the possibility to have "SMW-on-a-stick". Then, > physicians could just start via an .exe file their own version of the > online SMW, locally. They can annotate patients and upload RDF exports > to the file server. > > Thanks again for your thoughts. > > Any advice on getting "SMW-on-a-stick" and possibly optimising > performance would be appreciated. > > All the best, > > Benedikt > > On 11/27/2013 06:57 PM, Benedikt Kämpgen wrote: >> Hi Yaron, >> >> Thanks for your thoughts. >> >> > really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking about >> >> Private and offline in a sense that the form should be filled in without >> an internet connection. >> >> > And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have a 2nd >> > wiki, with much more restricted viewing? >> >> Yes, but that would basically mean in our context to have a second SMW >> installed on a local machine (without internet connection) for the >> physicians. I was hoping to find an easier way to forward a form from >> SMW to someone else. >> >> After a form has been filled in, we somehow need to extract the RDF from >> it to be stored (securely) in our knowledge base (FTP server). But I >> guess, this is another problem. >> >> Best, >> >> Benedikt >> >> On 11/26/2013 05:30 PM, Yaron Koren wrote: >>> Hi Benedikt, >>> >>> It could be that there's some wording confusion: by "offline", did you >>> really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking about is >>> people submitting data, via the internet/web, that then gets put into an >>> external server - only one that requires a password to access; as >>> opposed to the usual meaning of "offline", meaning something that people >>> can do locally on their computer, without any network connection. >>> >>> And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have a 2nd >>> wiki, with much more restricted viewing? >>> >>> -Yaron >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Benedikt Kämpgen >>> <ben...@ki... <mailto:ben...@ki...>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Bernhard, Yury, Yaron, Neill, thanks for your answers. >>> >>> @Bernhardt: the Push extension is interesting, but probably will not >>> help, here, since no information shall be pushed to the online wiki. >>> >>> @Yury: One important requirement is to have elaborate forms >>> (dropdown, etc.) and a flexible form design. Not sure whether Miga >>> could be easily extended towards this use case. >>> >>> @Yaron: >>> >>> >>> > - Would the offline form be just a copy of an online form? If so, >>> > doesn't that mean that sensitive patient data *can* get put on >>> the wiki? >>> >>> Ideally, the offline form would provide the same functionality >>> (e.g., autocompletion) than the online form. However, an offline >>> filled-in form will never be stored on SMW but rather be put as-is >>> on a secure file server. >>> >>> The question is, whether "as-is" actually is possible. Apparently, >>> we are looking for some kind of JavaScript library that allows to >>> offline modify an HTML page with forms and to save the modified HTML >>> page. >>> >>> >>> > - If a physician stores data offline, can other physicians ever >>> view it? >>> >>> The current plan is: After offline filling-in a form, the filled-in >>> form will be put on a secure file server. From there it can be >>> downloaded for viewing. >>> >>> >>> > - Where would the data be stored - on a single device? >>> >>> Ideally, the offline form could be used on various workstations. >>> When an offline form has been filled in, it is uploaded on a single >>> secure file server. >>> >>> >>> > - Would each set of offline data have its own RDF export? >>> >>> That is the crucial point and the reason for using SMW in the first >>> place. The online SMW is used to define properties for patients >>> (e.g., "has BMI"). An offline form shall now be used to fill in all >>> properties for a patient. An RDF export of the offline form shall >>> use the same properties as introduced by the online form. This way, >>> we have a unique relationship between properties as defined by the >>> online SMW and filled-in properties for a patient in an offline >>> form. Ideally, an RDF export from an offline form would create the >>> same RDF that would have been created if the form would have been >>> filled-in in the online SMW. >>> >>> Maybe, the RDF export of the offline SMW could also be implemented >>> using RDFa. >>> >>> >>> > - How would the RDF data be queried, if it requires FTP to access? >>> >>> The RDF data would be downloaded on demand from the file server and >>> for instance loaded into a triple store for querying. >>> >>> @Neill: >>> >>> >>> > What would the Physicians use to key in the data into the form? A >>> laptop >>> > or PC/Mac based laptop? >>> >>> Probably a PC with Windows. >>> >>> >>> > If this is the case there is nothing stopping them running a >>> local copy >>> > of MW/SMW and then simply uploading the data to the central >>> instance (a >>> > server somewhere I assume) using the normal MW export/import. >>> >>> True. We just try to avoid the additional effort of managing a local >>> copy SMW by having offline forms that create the same RDF as an >>> online filled-in form. >>> >>> I hope that makes our problem clearer. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Benedikt >>> |
From: david m. <vid...@zo...> - 2013-12-10 14:35:31
|
another option is to explore something like nobackend (Hoodie). http://nobackend.org/ <http://nobackend.org/examples.html> the design is to support multiple storage storage 'backends,' one could be added for SMW. https://gist.github.com/gr2m/5463475 David On 5 December 2013 06:13, Neill Mitchell <ne...@nl...> wrote: > Hi Benedikt > > I think this approach is definitely the way to go for your application. > > This may be of interest? > http://wiki.uniformserver.com/index.php/USB_MediaWiki > > It installs a portable server and then you can just create your own > custom MW/SMW instance to use. > > Cheers > Neill. > On 05/12/13 07:11, Benedikt Kämpgen wrote: > > Hello, > > > > We now investigate the possibility to have "SMW-on-a-stick". Then, > > physicians could just start via an .exe file their own version of the > > online SMW, locally. They can annotate patients and upload RDF exports > > to the file server. > > > > Thanks again for your thoughts. > > > > Any advice on getting "SMW-on-a-stick" and possibly optimising > > performance would be appreciated. > > > > All the best, > > > > Benedikt > > > > On 11/27/2013 06:57 PM, Benedikt Kämpgen wrote: > >> Hi Yaron, > >> > >> Thanks for your thoughts. > >> > >> > really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking > about > >> > >> Private and offline in a sense that the form should be filled in without > >> an internet connection. > >> > >> > And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have > a 2nd > >> > wiki, with much more restricted viewing? > >> > >> Yes, but that would basically mean in our context to have a second SMW > >> installed on a local machine (without internet connection) for the > >> physicians. I was hoping to find an easier way to forward a form from > >> SMW to someone else. > >> > >> After a form has been filled in, we somehow need to extract the RDF from > >> it to be stored (securely) in our knowledge base (FTP server). But I > >> guess, this is another problem. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Benedikt > >> > >> On 11/26/2013 05:30 PM, Yaron Koren wrote: > >>> Hi Benedikt, > >>> > >>> It could be that there's some wording confusion: by "offline", did you > >>> really just mean "private"? It sounds like what you're talking about is > >>> people submitting data, via the internet/web, that then gets put into > an > >>> external server - only one that requires a password to access; as > >>> opposed to the usual meaning of "offline", meaning something that > people > >>> can do locally on their computer, without any network connection. > >>> > >>> And if that's the case, maybe the easiest solution is just to have a > 2nd > >>> wiki, with much more restricted viewing? > >>> > >>> -Yaron > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Benedikt Kämpgen > >>> <ben...@ki... <mailto:ben...@ki...>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> Bernhard, Yury, Yaron, Neill, thanks for your answers. > >>> > >>> @Bernhardt: the Push extension is interesting, but probably will > not > >>> help, here, since no information shall be pushed to the online > wiki. > >>> > >>> @Yury: One important requirement is to have elaborate forms > >>> (dropdown, etc.) and a flexible form design. Not sure whether > Miga > >>> could be easily extended towards this use case. > >>> > >>> @Yaron: > >>> > >>> > >>> > - Would the offline form be just a copy of an online form? If > so, > >>> > doesn't that mean that sensitive patient data *can* get put on > >>> the wiki? > >>> > >>> Ideally, the offline form would provide the same functionality > >>> (e.g., autocompletion) than the online form. However, an offline > >>> filled-in form will never be stored on SMW but rather be put > as-is > >>> on a secure file server. > >>> > >>> The question is, whether "as-is" actually is possible. > Apparently, > >>> we are looking for some kind of JavaScript library that allows to > >>> offline modify an HTML page with forms and to save the modified > HTML > >>> page. > >>> > >>> > >>> > - If a physician stores data offline, can other physicians > ever > >>> view it? > >>> > >>> The current plan is: After offline filling-in a form, the > filled-in > >>> form will be put on a secure file server. From there it can be > >>> downloaded for viewing. > >>> > >>> > >>> > - Where would the data be stored - on a single device? > >>> > >>> Ideally, the offline form could be used on various workstations. > >>> When an offline form has been filled in, it is uploaded on a > single > >>> secure file server. > >>> > >>> > >>> > - Would each set of offline data have its own RDF export? > >>> > >>> That is the crucial point and the reason for using SMW in the > first > >>> place. The online SMW is used to define properties for patients > >>> (e.g., "has BMI"). An offline form shall now be used to fill in > all > >>> properties for a patient. An RDF export of the offline form shall > >>> use the same properties as introduced by the online form. This > way, > >>> we have a unique relationship between properties as defined by > the > >>> online SMW and filled-in properties for a patient in an offline > >>> form. Ideally, an RDF export from an offline form would create > the > >>> same RDF that would have been created if the form would have been > >>> filled-in in the online SMW. > >>> > >>> Maybe, the RDF export of the offline SMW could also be > implemented > >>> using RDFa. > >>> > >>> > >>> > - How would the RDF data be queried, if it requires FTP to > access? > >>> > >>> The RDF data would be downloaded on demand from the file server > and > >>> for instance loaded into a triple store for querying. > >>> > >>> @Neill: > >>> > >>> > >>> > What would the Physicians use to key in the data into the > form? A > >>> laptop > >>> > or PC/Mac based laptop? > >>> > >>> Probably a PC with Windows. > >>> > >>> > >>> > If this is the case there is nothing stopping them running a > >>> local copy > >>> > of MW/SMW and then simply uploading the data to the central > >>> instance (a > >>> > server somewhere I assume) using the normal MW export/import. > >>> > >>> True. We just try to avoid the additional effort of managing a > local > >>> copy SMW by having offline forms that create the same RDF as an > >>> online filled-in form. > >>> > >>> I hope that makes our problem clearer. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Benedikt > >>> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK > Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. > Download it for free now! > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > Sem...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > > |