rails-devel — List for discussion of Rails development

Re: [Rails-devel] Save file names

[Jim B. <jim...@ya...>]

On Nov 23, 2009, at 2:32 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
> Next player is the player to do the next move, including Done.
> For Rails, this IS the current player.

Right... but in pbem, most of the time people hit 'done' before they  
actually save the move file- so, the current-player has already  
advanced in rails.

(Of course- lots of the time, they don't- and the current-player is  
the player that's just finishing, after all.  ;)  It's hard to expect  
any consistency.)

> I'll keep this idea in my mind. But first there are somne
> new and tricky bugs to fix.


Very understood.

While you're pondering this in the background, here's some food for  
thought- just thinking 'outside the box'-

What a pbem player would want, I think, is a single "Commit" button-  
instead of separate "Done" and "Save" functions.

When selecting "commit",  the move would be saved- tagged with both  
current /and/ next player, and then the current-player would be  
advanced (within the session)  This would combine the 'done' and  
'save' and 'who's next?' functions into one atomic action/button.

As I said, just some food for thought.

best,
  - jim

Re: [Rails-devel] Save file names

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

Next player is the player to do the next move, including Done.
For Rails, this IS the current player.

Adding the previous player (who did the last move) sounds
like a feasible idea, although it is currently not kept anywhere.
To do that consistently will need some work.

In the middle of a turn both names would be identical.

I'll keep this idea in my mind. But first there are somne
new and tricky bugs to fix.

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Black [mailto:jim...@ya...] 
> Sent: Monday 23 November 2009 22:09
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Save file names
> 
> > Yes, the special value NEXT_PLAYER will do that.
> > save.filename.suffix=NEXT_PLAYER
> 
> 
> One aside on this current/next player for save files-  ail's 
> notion of  
> current/next player is a little awkward for this, with pbem game,  
> because it strongly depends on whether a player has hit 
> 'Done' yet, or  
> not.
> 
> Once a players hits 'Done', current-player becomes next-player, next- 
> player becomes the-guy-after-that, etc.
> 
> If we were using this for save file names and 
> token/next-player names,  
> we'd have to be pretty disciplined about who presses "Done".
> 
> But, along these lines- I know it's an odd idea, but is there 
> any way  
> to set the default so that it adds suffixes for BOTH current-player  
> (well, more literally- the one who just moved), and, next-player  
> (again more literally, the one who should move right-now) ?
> 
> I'm thinking this might be the ideal way to have our cake and eat-it- 
> too- Tom Dick and Harry were playing 18AL, I might imagine a folder  
> listing like this:
> 
> 1870_T000001_Tom_Dick
> 1870_T000002_Dick_Harry
> 1870_T000001_Harry_Tom
> 1870_T000001_Tom_Harry
> 1870_T000001_Harry_Tom
> 1870_T000001_Dick_Harry
> 
> 
> etc.  The name on the left is the person saving the complete 
> move- the  
> name on the right is the current/next player, who needs to pick that  
> up and move next.  this would be convenient, because it would 
> be easy  
> to BOTH (a) find a specific player's previous moves, (b) see who's  
> move it is next, with Rails help.
> 
> Sorry to be longwinded, just thought I'd mention it.
> 
> Thanks again for all the hard work on rails and this release- 
> all the  
> quick bug fixes, convenient options, etc.  It's great.
> 
> -  jim
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Rails-devel] Save file names

[Jim B. <jim...@ya...>]

> Yes, the special value NEXT_PLAYER will do that.
> save.filename.suffix=NEXT_PLAYER


One aside on this current/next player for save files-  ail's notion of  
current/next player is a little awkward for this, with pbem game,  
because it strongly depends on whether a player has hit 'Done' yet, or  
not.

Once a players hits 'Done', current-player becomes next-player, next- 
player becomes the-guy-after-that, etc.

If we were using this for save file names and token/next-player names,  
we'd have to be pretty disciplined about who presses "Done".

But, along these lines- I know it's an odd idea, but is there any way  
to set the default so that it adds suffixes for BOTH current-player  
(well, more literally- the one who just moved), and, next-player  
(again more literally, the one who should move right-now) ?

I'm thinking this might be the ideal way to have our cake and eat-it- 
too- Tom Dick and Harry were playing 18AL, I might imagine a folder  
listing like this:

1870_T000001_Tom_Dick
1870_T000002_Dick_Harry
1870_T000001_Harry_Tom
1870_T000001_Tom_Harry
1870_T000001_Harry_Tom
1870_T000001_Dick_Harry


etc.  The name on the left is the person saving the complete move- the  
name on the right is the current/next player, who needs to pick that  
up and move next.  this would be convenient, because it would be easy  
to BOTH (a) find a specific player's previous moves, (b) see who's  
move it is next, with Rails help.

Sorry to be longwinded, just thought I'd mention it.

Thanks again for all the hard work on rails and this release- all the  
quick bug fixes, convenient options, etc.  It's great.

-  jim



On Nov 21, 2009, at 11:28 AM, Erik Vos wrote:

> Yes, the special value NEXT_PLAYER will do that.
> save.filename.suffix=NEXT_PLAYER
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Shaffer [mailto:chr...@gm...]
>> Sent: Saturday 21 November 2009 20:11
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Save file names
>>
>> Would it be possible to set the save file name suffix to the
>> variable
>> "next player"?
>>
>> --
>> Chris Shaffer
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>
>> On Nov 21, 2009, at 10:31 AM, "Erik Vos" <eri...@xs...> wrote:
>>
>>> On popular request, I have added two new entries to the customizable
>>> configuration file my.properties.
>>> Both affect the default file name proposed by the program:
>>>
>>> Timezone:
>>> save.filename.date_time_zone=UTC
>>> The date-time stamp is calculated using the given time zone
>>> identifier.
>>> Default is local time.
>>> The time zone identifier must be a valid Java time zone name.
>>> Fortunately,
>>> that list is very long.
>>> Java 1.6 supports names like "UTC", "EST", "EST5EDT", "Etc/GMT+5",
>>> "Cuba",
>>> "America/Montreal", "Europe/Amsterdam" etc.
>>> A bit of googling might help. I found a Java applet that displays
>>> the list
>>> at http://mindprod.com/applet/tz.html,
>>> but you must have Java 1.6 installed.
>>>
>>> Suffix:
>>> save.filename.suffix=Me
>>> The suffix is appended to the base file name (before extension),
>>> separated
>>> by an underscore, which is added automatically.
>>>
>>> A file name created by the above settings could be
>>> 1830_20091121_1825_Me.rails
>>>
>>> For some reason that currently escapes me, a file can be
>> saved only
>>> after at
>>> least one move has been done.
>>> I suppose that is not too much of a limitation...
>>>
>>> Erik.
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> ---
>>> ---
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal
>> Reports 2008
>>> 30-Day
>>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and
>> deployment - and
>>> focus on
>>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rails-devel mailing list
>>> Rai...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal
>> Reports 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and
>> deployment - and focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 30-Day
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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

> > Re: bug #2898839 - 1830:  dropouts remain, in privates-auction. 
> > 
> > I have reverted this fix, as it apparently was against the rules.
> 
> Yay!
> 
> > One possibility is to add a game option to all games with an
> > 1830-style auction: to disallow rejoining bidding after a pass.

I have added a new GameOption "LeaveAuctionOnPass" to all 1830-style games
to satisfy this apparent need.
 
> I'd like to see options like this be selected at game start, either
> by embedding them in the game-definition file or by starting up with
> a dialog box like the one in Colossus (.sf.net).

Both is needed (if I understand you right): the option needs to be defined
in both Games.xml and the game-specific Game.xml.
The former adds the game option to the Option button where the game is
selected.


Three new bugs have been reported. 
One I have already fixed (shares sold in an emergency case 
did not cause a price drop) and the other two are being investigated.
It seems that all three were caused by recent changes or fixes,
and did not exist in 1.0.6.

Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

Erik Vos wrote:
> Re: bug #2898839 - 1830:  dropouts remain, in privates-auction. 
> 
> I have reverted this fix, as it apparently was against the rules.

Yay!

> One possibility is to add a game option to all games with an
> 1830-style auction: to disallow rejoining bidding after a pass.

I'd like to see options like this be selected at game start, either
by embedding them in the game-definition file or by starting up with
a dialog box like the one in Colossus (.sf.net).

> In addition, it might be a good idea to skip player turns automatically
> if really nothing else can be done than just passing. 

Agree.  But in stock rounds this mostly won't happen (unless it is
the first round of a game which, like 1830, does not allow a player
to sell anything during that round).  If a player has enough money to
buy the lowest priced certificate (except ones he is banned from
buying because he sold a share), or has a certificate he can legally
sell, he gets a turn.  Even if he has neither, he may be able to take
other special actions (directly buy or sell a private, convert M&H,
redeem or reissue shares).

> To some extent this already occurs in Operating Round turn steps. 
> In hot-seat play such turn skipping might be easily overlooked,
> so I guess a warning about skipping a player turn should be 
> popped up (and added to the Report window) as well.

I would not want such a pop-up (or at least would want to be allowed
to turn them off).

The only place I'd put pop-ups in the game is when a player has taken
an action that requires follow-up decisions.  (Examples: you sell some
shares and one or more Presidents have to decide whether to price-
protect.  Or you cause a phase change and various players have to
choose which trains to discard, whether to form the Pr, which minors
to merge, what to take in exchange for IRSFF shares, and so on.)

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

> 
> I think there's a number of issues like this, that different expert  
> player groups strongly believe should be played one way or another-  
> where all the players I know, disagree with the way Rails is playing  
> this.
> 
> An ideal way for Rails to tackle this might be to include a 
> number of  
> similar checkboxes in the "Options" panel for most games--
> 
> For example:
> 
> a) During privates auction, player must "pass or drop-out"  
> (YES/NO -  
> default is 'NO')

I'll look at it.

> b) When selling stock during enforced train purchase, stock price  
> should drop just like SR sales.  (YES/NO - default is 'NO')

Yes, stock prices should drop, and I was unaware that Rails didn't
do that, but it seems so. This is clearly a bug, which I will try to fix.
 
> Generally, all the experts I know play this stuff differently than  
> Rails does, and tell me that Rails is wrong.  It's kind of a no-win  
> situation.    At the end of the day, I think there's no "correct"  
> answer, so it would be nice if Rails was configurable on some of the  
> basic rules like this.

House rules aren't very difficult to add, 
but the trouble is that there might be no end to it. 
On the other hand, the customer is king...

Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports

[Jim B. <jim...@ya...>]

On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:45 AM, Erik Vos wrote:
> Any better ideas?

Maybe...

I think there's a number of issues like this, that different expert  
player groups strongly believe should be played one way or another-  
where all the players I know, disagree with the way Rails is playing  
this.

An ideal way for Rails to tackle this might be to include a number of  
similar checkboxes in the "Options" panel for most games--

For example:

a) During privates auction, player must "pass or drop-out"  (YES/NO -  
default is 'NO')

b) When selling stock during enforced train purchase, stock price  
should drop just like SR sales.  (YES/NO - default is 'NO')

Generally, all the experts I know play this stuff differently than  
Rails does, and tell me that Rails is wrong.  It's kind of a no-win  
situation.    At the end of the day, I think there's no "correct"  
answer, so it would be nice if Rails was configurable on some of the  
basic rules like this.

best,
  - jim




>
> In addition, it might be a good idea to skip player turns  
> automatically
> if really nothing else can be done than just passing.
> To some extent this already occurs in Operating Round turn steps.
> In hot-seat play such turn skipping might be easily overlooked,
> so I guess a warning about skipping a player turn should be
> popped up (and added to the Report window) as well.
>
> Erik.
>
>> In terms of your first question (bid again or drop out), I've
>> verified
>> this with a number of players, but also- there's a popular FAQ for
>> 1830, that acknowledges that this is played differently across
>> different groups, and that this is a popular 'house rule' (an
>> odd way
>> of putting it, that just increases the ambiguity).
>>
>> I think, the moral is- that there is no definite answer agreed among
>> experts.
>>
>> The one deciding factor for me in filing this bug for rails
>> is this:
>> whenever this comes up in pbem play- players always WANT to keep
>> passing, and it typically up slowing everything down significantly
>> that rails keeps returning to that player.
>>
>> Other than that, I have no opinion or real preference, and I'd just
>> try to make sure players in any game I hosted understood how Rails
>> plays this, ahead of time, so that there's no unfortunate surprises.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008  
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and  
> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
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> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

[Rails-devel] Next release candidate is up: 1.0.7-rc3

[brett l. <wak...@gm...>]

I've uploaded the latest release candidate.

Kick the tires, and let us know if there are any other bugs.

If everything looks good, we'll make this the full release next week.

---Brett.

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU operating rounds bug

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

Or I'm an idiot, perhaps.  Please ignore - it must have been too early
on a Sunday morning and I was clearly confused.  We actually have
already played two operating rounds, so it really is time for a stock
round.  Apologies.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:19 AM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote:
> We just played one OR in 18EU and it immediately dropped us into an
> stock round.  18EU has two ORs between SRs the entire game and should
> not have moved into an SR before the second OR.
>
> --
> Chris
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>

[Rails-devel] 18EU operating rounds bug

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

We just played one OR in 18EU and it immediately dropped us into an
stock round.  18EU has two ORs between SRs the entire game and should
not have moved into an SR before the second OR.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

Re: bug #2898839 - 1830:  dropouts remain, in privates-auction. 

I have reverted this fix, as it apparently was against the rules.

However, I sympathize with Jim's remarks below, and I'm thinking
about ways to address it (possibly in a next release).

One possibility is to add a game option to all games with an
1830-style auction: to disallow rejoining bidding after a pass.

Another possibility is to add a facility for a player to withdraw
from an auction. However, I haven't found yet a satisfactory way
to include such an action in the current UI. Options:
- Add an extra Autopass button (but there isn't really room for);
- Add a menu item to set Autopass for the current auction 
(but menu items tend to be overlooked);
- Add a checkbox with text below the button row that says something
like "Autopass for this auction". Not very pretty.

Any better ideas?

In addition, it might be a good idea to skip player turns automatically
if really nothing else can be done than just passing. 
To some extent this already occurs in Operating Round turn steps. 
In hot-seat play such turn skipping might be easily overlooked,
so I guess a warning about skipping a player turn should be 
popped up (and added to the Report window) as well.

Erik.

> In terms of your first question (bid again or drop out), I've 
> verified  
> this with a number of players, but also- there's a popular FAQ for  
> 1830, that acknowledges that this is played differently across  
> different groups, and that this is a popular 'house rule' (an 
> odd way  
> of putting it, that just increases the ambiguity).
> 
> I think, the moral is- that there is no definite answer agreed among  
> experts.
> 
> The one deciding factor for me in filing this bug for rails 
> is this:   
> whenever this comes up in pbem play- players always WANT to keep  
> passing, and it typically up slowing everything down significantly  
> that rails keeps returning to that player.
> 
> Other than that, I have no opinion or real preference, and I'd just  
> try to make sure players in any game I hosted understood how Rails  
> plays this, ahead of time, so that there's no unfortunate surprises.

Re: [Rails-devel] Save file names

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

Yes, the special value NEXT_PLAYER will do that. 
save.filename.suffix=NEXT_PLAYER

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Shaffer [mailto:chr...@gm...] 
> Sent: Saturday 21 November 2009 20:11
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Save file names
> 
> Would it be possible to set the save file name suffix to the 
> variable  
> "next player"?
> 
> --
> Chris Shaffer
> 
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> On Nov 21, 2009, at 10:31 AM, "Erik Vos" <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> 
> > On popular request, I have added two new entries to the customizable
> > configuration file my.properties.
> > Both affect the default file name proposed by the program:
> >
> > Timezone:
> > save.filename.date_time_zone=UTC
> > The date-time stamp is calculated using the given time zone  
> > identifier.
> > Default is local time.
> > The time zone identifier must be a valid Java time zone name.  
> > Fortunately,
> > that list is very long.
> > Java 1.6 supports names like "UTC", "EST", "EST5EDT", "Etc/GMT+5",  
> > "Cuba",
> > "America/Montreal", "Europe/Amsterdam" etc.
> > A bit of googling might help. I found a Java applet that displays  
> > the list
> > at http://mindprod.com/applet/tz.html,
> > but you must have Java 1.6 installed.
> >
> > Suffix:
> > save.filename.suffix=Me
> > The suffix is appended to the base file name (before extension),  
> > separated
> > by an underscore, which is added automatically.
> >
> > A file name created by the above settings could be
> > 1830_20091121_1825_Me.rails
> >
> > For some reason that currently escapes me, a file can be 
> saved only  
> > after at
> > least one move has been done.
> > I suppose that is not too much of a limitation...
> >
> > Erik.
> >
> >
> > --- 
> > --- 
> > --- 
> > 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal 
> Reports 2008  
> > 30-Day
> > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and 
> deployment - and  
> > focus on
> > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> > Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails-devel mailing list
> > Rai...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal 
> Reports 2008 30-Day 
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and 
> deployment - and focus on 
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] Save file names

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

Would it be possible to set the save file name suffix to the variable  
"next player"?

--
Chris Shaffer

Please consider the environment before printing this email.

On Nov 21, 2009, at 10:31 AM, "Erik Vos" <eri...@xs...> wrote:

> On popular request, I have added two new entries to the customizable
> configuration file my.properties.
> Both affect the default file name proposed by the program:
>
> Timezone:
> save.filename.date_time_zone=UTC
> The date-time stamp is calculated using the given time zone  
> identifier.
> Default is local time.
> The time zone identifier must be a valid Java time zone name.  
> Fortunately,
> that list is very long.
> Java 1.6 supports names like "UTC", "EST", "EST5EDT", "Etc/GMT+5",  
> "Cuba",
> "America/Montreal", "Europe/Amsterdam" etc.
> A bit of googling might help. I found a Java applet that displays  
> the list
> at http://mindprod.com/applet/tz.html,
> but you must have Java 1.6 installed.
>
> Suffix:
> save.filename.suffix=Me
> The suffix is appended to the base file name (before extension),  
> separated
> by an underscore, which is added automatically.
>
> A file name created by the above settings could be
> 1830_20091121_1825_Me.rails
>
> For some reason that currently escapes me, a file can be saved only  
> after at
> least one move has been done.
> I suppose that is not too much of a limitation...
>
> Erik.
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008  
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and  
> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

[Rails-devel] Save file names

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

On popular request, I have added two new entries to the customizable
configuration file my.properties.
Both affect the default file name proposed by the program:

Timezone: 
save.filename.date_time_zone=UTC
The date-time stamp is calculated using the given time zone identifier.
Default is local time.
The time zone identifier must be a valid Java time zone name. Fortunately,
that list is very long.
Java 1.6 supports names like "UTC", "EST", "EST5EDT", "Etc/GMT+5", "Cuba",
"America/Montreal", "Europe/Amsterdam" etc.
A bit of googling might help. I found a Java applet that displays the list
at http://mindprod.com/applet/tz.html,
but you must have Java 1.6 installed.

Suffix:
save.filename.suffix=Me
The suffix is appended to the base file name (before extension), separated
by an underscore, which is added automatically.

A file name created by the above settings could be
1830_20091121_1825_Me.rails

For some reason that currently escapes me, a file can be saved only after at
least one move has been done.
I suppose that is not too much of a limitation...

Erik.

[Rails-devel] More changes

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Some more bug reports have appeared and dealt with:

#2900360 - 1.0.7 doesn't follow open-file directory
- After loading a game from a certain directory, Save did not
open in the same directory. 1.0.6 did.
- Not sure why this could have changed, but it is now fixed.

#2900363 - pbem wishlist- config (player name, UTC)
- This is a feature request, already discussed in rails-devel.
It was announced for the next release, but if time permits,
it might be done for 1.0.7 anyway.

#2900366 - 1830 game notes re: Erie may be obsolete
- 1830 game notes mention limitations on the Erie home base
handling, which no longer exist.
- True, the Erie notes have been removed.

#2900616 - Train not required by 1830 rules but is by Rails
- A trainless company is now forced to buy a train, even
if it has no route.
- This restriction has been removed. If a company has no train,
a red-coloured message will appear in the Map window message area,
saying: "You must buy a train unless you have no route"

#2901152 - Remaining tiles exception error
- Did not work in RC1&2, but was already fixed.

Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] Question

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

Yes, under the Info menu in the Map window. 
Please note, that it was broken in 1.0.7-rc1 & -rc2, but it's now fixed.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Shaffer [mailto:chr...@gm...] 
> Sent: Friday 20 November 2009 09:18
> To: rai...@li...
> Subject: [Rails-devel] Question
> 
> One of our players asks "Is there a way to see which tiles and how
> many of each tile are left in the supply?"
> 
> --
> Chris
> 
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal 
> Reports 2008 30-Day 
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and 
> deployment - and focus on 
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
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Re: [Rails-devel] default load and save directory

[brett l. <wak...@gm...>]

On second thought...

../18EU-B refers to a directory "up" one level, in the parent directory.

./18EU-B  refers to a directory that is in the current directory.

I hope that's a bit more clear.

---Brett.



On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 8:17 AM, brett lentz <wak...@gm...> wrote:
> James -
>
> The syntax you're looking for is this:
>
> ../18EU-B
>
> ---Brett.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:42 AM, James Romano <rom...@gm...> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm using Rails and Dropbox for a game of 18EU and enjoying it very much so
>> far.  We're storing the saves in a subdirectory of the directory that
>> contains the rails-1.0.7-rc2.jar file.  The default load and save directory
>> is the directory that contains the .jar file.
>>
>> I see the file my.properties has a commented-out line that can be used to
>> set the save.directory variable, and another comment nearby says that the
>> path can be absolute or relative.  I've tried a few guesses at how to set
>> that variable to the subdirectory with our saves, which is /18EU-B below the
>> .jar directory.  I wasn't successful in getting it to work, so I thought I'd
>> ask the experts how it is done.
>>
>> I'd be grateful if you would tell me the exact syntax I'd need to set the
>> directory down one level from the .jar directory, to /18EU-B
>>
>>  Jim
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus
>> on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>
>>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] default load and save directory

[brett l. <wak...@gm...>]

James -

The syntax you're looking for is this:

../18EU-B

---Brett.



On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:42 AM, James Romano <rom...@gm...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm using Rails and Dropbox for a game of 18EU and enjoying it very much so
> far.  We're storing the saves in a subdirectory of the directory that
> contains the rails-1.0.7-rc2.jar file.  The default load and save directory
> is the directory that contains the .jar file.
>
> I see the file my.properties has a commented-out line that can be used to
> set the save.directory variable, and another comment nearby says that the
> path can be absolute or relative.  I've tried a few guesses at how to set
> that variable to the subdirectory with our saves, which is /18EU-B below the
> .jar directory.  I wasn't successful in getting it to work, so I thought I'd
> ask the experts how it is done.
>
> I'd be grateful if you would tell me the exact syntax I'd need to set the
> directory down one level from the .jar directory, to /18EU-B
>
>  Jim
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus
> on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>

[Rails-devel] default load and save directory

[James R. <rom...@gm...>]

Hi,

I'm using Rails and Dropbox for a game of 18EU and enjoying it very much so
far.  We're storing the saves in a subdirectory of the directory that
contains the rails-1.0.7-rc2.jar file.  The default load and save directory
is the directory that contains the .jar file.

I see the file my.properties has a commented-out line that can be used to
set the save.directory variable, and another comment nearby says that the
path can be absolute or relative.  I've tried a few guesses at how to set
that variable to the subdirectory with our saves, which is /18EU-B below the
.jar directory.  I wasn't successful in getting it to work, so I thought I'd
ask the experts how it is done.

I'd be grateful if you would tell me the exact syntax I'd need to set the
directory down one level from the .jar directory, to /18EU-B

 Jim

[Rails-devel] Remaining tiles exception area

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

Well, we found the place (somewhat hidden) where the remaining tiles
are supposed to be found.  I created bug #2901152 for this and
replicated it in a game of 1830 as well.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonathan Hays
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 2:49 AM
Subject: Re: [18EU-B] bug...

If you click on the info menu and select the only option - "remaining
tiles" there is a NullPointerException

Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-0" java.lang.NullPointerException
       at rails.ui.swing.RemainingTilesWindow.init(RemainingTilesWindow.java:60)
       at rails.ui.swing.RemainingTilesWindow.<init>(RemainingTilesWindow.java:50)
       at rails.ui.swing.ORUIManager.displayRemainingTiles(ORUIManager.java:1405)
       at rails.ui.swing.ORUIManager.processAction(ORUIManager.java:371)
       at rails.ui.swing.ORPanel.actionPerformed(ORPanel.java:538)
       at javax.swing.AbstractButton.fireActionPerformed(AbstractButton.java:2012)
       at javax.swing.AbstractButton$Handler.actionPerformed(AbstractButton.java:2335)
       at javax.swing.DefaultButtonModel.fireActionPerformed(DefaultButtonModel.java:404)
       at javax.swing.DefaultButtonModel.setPressed(DefaultButtonModel.java:259)
       at javax.swing.AbstractButton.doClick(AbstractButton.java:374)
       at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicMenuItemUI.doClick(BasicMenuItemUI.java:1688)
       at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicMenuItemUI$Handler.mouseReleased(BasicMenuItemUI.java:1732)
       at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Component.java:6108)
       at javax.swing.JComponent.processMouseEvent(JComponent.java:3276)
       at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Component.java:5873)
       at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Container.java:2105)
       at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Component.java:4469)
       at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:2163)
       at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:4295)
       at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Container.java:4461)
       at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Container.java:4125)
       at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Container.java:4055)
       at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:2149)
       at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Window.java:2478)
       at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:4295)
       at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:604)
       at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(EventDispatchThread.java:275)
       at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(EventDispatchThread.java:200)
       at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(EventDispatchThread.java:190)
       at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:185)
       at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:177)
       at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:138)

the program seems to catch it and carry on but from then on any
attempt to lay track results in  a similar exception.

Jon

[Rails-devel] Question

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

One of our players asks "Is there a way to see which tiles and how
many of each tile are left in the supply?"

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports

[Jim B. <jim...@ya...>]

Erik,

Here's the 1830 FAQ I was referring to below, by Steve Thomas- http://www.18xx.net/1830/1830f.htm

Here's the relevant paragraph on privates' auctions and dropouts-

<snip>
If two or more players have placed bids on a Private Company, rule 7.2  
states that "an auction is held in which all bidders (but no one else)  
take part. The starting price for the auction is the highest sum bid,  
and the minimum raise is $5." When the number of interested players is  
only two, the simple and obvious style of auction is that the players  
raise their bids alternately until one decides to pass. Doing it this  
way seems universal. When there are three or more bidding players,  
some groups hold an organised auction, where players bid or pass in  
player order; in some groups a player passing may not rejoin the  
auction. Others (including my own group) have a free-for-all, where  
any eligible player may make a bid at any time, and the auction ends  
when all players agree to stop.
<snip>

I felt the example text (quoted in the bug) was clear on this, but I  
understand it's ambiguous.

That notwithstanding- if all other things are equal- it's certainly  
easier for online/pbem play, to /not/ require extra passes in these  
situations.

Thanks all for the thoughts and feedback on the issue, anyway- and  
erik and brett for all the hard work on these rails issues, it's great.

best,
  - jim


On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Jim Black wrote:

>
> In terms of your first question (bid again or drop out), I've verified
> this with a number of players, but also- there's a popular FAQ for
> 1830, that acknowledges that this is played differently across
> different groups, and that this is a popular 'house rule' (an odd way
> of putting it, that just increases the ambiguity).
>
> I think, the moral is- that there is no definite answer agreed among
> experts.
>
> The one deciding factor for me in filing this bug for rails is this:
> whenever this comes up in pbem play- players always WANT to keep
> passing, and it typically up slowing everything down significantly
> that rails keeps returning to that player.
>
> Other than that, I have no opinion or real preference, and I'd just
> try to make sure players in any game I hosted understood how Rails
> plays this, ahead of time, so that there's no unfortunate surprises.
>
>  - jim
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
>>> Sent: Thursday 19 November 2009 19:31
>>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports
>>>
>>> Erik Vos wrote:
>>>> #2898839 - 1830:  dropouts remain, in privates-auction.
>>>> - "When a private has 3-or-more bidders, the auction will continue,
>>>> even after one bidder passes and drops out.
>>>> However, rails also continues to allow that player(s) to bid  
>>>> again."
>>>> - Confirmed and fixed.
>>>
>>> I believe these players are supposed to be allowed to bid again.
>>
>> Hmm, you may be right on this one. The rules don't say anything
>> explicitly
>> about passing players dropping out of the auction. The rules book
>> quote
>> give by Jim in the bug report ('There's a specific example of this
>> in the 1830 rulebook, in italics on page 5, rhs: "Player #2 must
>> raise the bid.. or drop out".') is not conclusive, as in the case
>> described only two players are bidding; thenm if one passes,
>> bidding ends regardless whether the pass-then-drop-out rule
>> applies or not.
>>
>> Perhaps I have to revert this fix.
>> Any other opinions?
>>
>>>> #2898830 - priority incorrectly affected by privates auctions.
>>>> - "Rails doesn't handle priority correctly across a typical
>>> 1830-style
>>>> privates auction. Note that the auction itself, does not count as a
>>>> player action- for the bidders, winner, etc. In rails, it
>>> appears to."
>>>> - Confirmed and fixed. The fix is generic: auctioning will
>>> now never
>>>> change the PD after bidding in any game. Not sure of this rule  
>>>> holds
>>>> for all games, but I'm currently not aware of any exceptions.
>>>
>>> I believe this purchase, like any other, does determine the Priority
>>> Deal if it is followed by everyone passing (even though it does not
>>> change who is next in the stock round that was interrupted by the
>>> auction).  I would handle this by making the auction its own "round"
>>> (which implies that one "round" can interrupt another - a capability
>>> that would also apply to the minor-exchange rounds in 1835/37/2038,
>>> CGR formation in 1856, and mergers and the IRSFF split in 1841).
>>
>> I don't think so.
>> On what written 1830 rule would you base your statement: 'I believe
>> this purchase, like any other, does determine the Priority Deal
>> if it is followed by everyone passing'?
>>
>> The round-within-a-round approach is indeed what Rails does (or will
>> do
>> when the time comes) in the other cases that you mention.
>> But not (yet) in the 1830-style auction-within-the-initial-round.
>> Thinking about it, that might indeed have simplified the code.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Erik.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008
>> 30-Day
>> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and
>> focus on
>> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
>> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008  
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and  
> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports

[Jim B. <jim...@ya...>]

In terms of your first question (bid again or drop out), I've verified  
this with a number of players, but also- there's a popular FAQ for  
1830, that acknowledges that this is played differently across  
different groups, and that this is a popular 'house rule' (an odd way  
of putting it, that just increases the ambiguity).

I think, the moral is- that there is no definite answer agreed among  
experts.

The one deciding factor for me in filing this bug for rails is this:   
whenever this comes up in pbem play- players always WANT to keep  
passing, and it typically up slowing everything down significantly  
that rails keeps returning to that player.

Other than that, I have no opinion or real preference, and I'd just  
try to make sure players in any game I hosted understood how Rails  
plays this, ahead of time, so that there's no unfortunate surprises.

  - jim





On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Erik Vos wrote:

>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
>> Sent: Thursday 19 November 2009 19:31
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports
>>
>> Erik Vos wrote:
>>> #2898839 - 1830:  dropouts remain, in privates-auction.
>>> - "When a private has 3-or-more bidders, the auction will continue,
>>> even after one bidder passes and drops out.
>>> However, rails also continues to allow that player(s) to bid again."
>>> - Confirmed and fixed.
>>
>> I believe these players are supposed to be allowed to bid again.
>
> Hmm, you may be right on this one. The rules don't say anything  
> explicitly
> about passing players dropping out of the auction. The rules book  
> quote
> give by Jim in the bug report ('There's a specific example of this
> in the 1830 rulebook, in italics on page 5, rhs: "Player #2 must
> raise the bid.. or drop out".') is not conclusive, as in the case
> described only two players are bidding; thenm if one passes,
> bidding ends regardless whether the pass-then-drop-out rule
> applies or not.
>
> Perhaps I have to revert this fix.
> Any other opinions?
>
>>> #2898830 - priority incorrectly affected by privates auctions.
>>> - "Rails doesn't handle priority correctly across a typical
>> 1830-style
>>> privates auction. Note that the auction itself, does not count as a
>>> player action- for the bidders, winner, etc. In rails, it
>> appears to."
>>> - Confirmed and fixed. The fix is generic: auctioning will
>> now never
>>> change the PD after bidding in any game. Not sure of this rule holds
>>> for all games, but I'm currently not aware of any exceptions.
>>
>> I believe this purchase, like any other, does determine the Priority
>> Deal if it is followed by everyone passing (even though it does not
>> change who is next in the stock round that was interrupted by the
>> auction).  I would handle this by making the auction its own "round"
>> (which implies that one "round" can interrupt another - a capability
>> that would also apply to the minor-exchange rounds in 1835/37/2038,
>> CGR formation in 1856, and mergers and the IRSFF split in 1841).
>
> I don't think so.
> On what written 1830 rule would you base your statement: 'I believe
> this purchase, like any other, does determine the Priority Deal
> if it is followed by everyone passing'?
>
> The round-within-a-round approach is indeed what Rails does (or will  
> do
> when the time comes) in the other cases that you mention.
> But not (yet) in the 1830-style auction-within-the-initial-round.
> Thinking about it, that might indeed have simplified the code.
>
> Regards,
> Erik.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008  
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and  
> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
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> Rai...@li...
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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...] 
> Sent: Thursday 19 November 2009 19:31
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports
> 
> Erik Vos wrote:
> > #2898839 - 1830:  dropouts remain, in privates-auction.
> > - "When a private has 3-or-more bidders, the auction will continue,
> > even after one bidder passes and drops out.
> > However, rails also continues to allow that player(s) to bid again."
> > - Confirmed and fixed.
> 
> I believe these players are supposed to be allowed to bid again.

Hmm, you may be right on this one. The rules don't say anything explicitly
about passing players dropping out of the auction. The rules book quote
give by Jim in the bug report ('There's a specific example of this 
in the 1830 rulebook, in italics on page 5, rhs: "Player #2 must 
raise the bid.. or drop out".') is not conclusive, as in the case
described only two players are bidding; thenm if one passes, 
bidding ends regardless whether the pass-then-drop-out rule
applies or not.

Perhaps I have to revert this fix.
Any other opinions?
 
> > #2898830 - priority incorrectly affected by privates auctions.
> > - "Rails doesn't handle priority correctly across a typical 
> 1830-style
> > privates auction. Note that the auction itself, does not count as a 
> > player action- for the bidders, winner, etc. In rails, it 
> appears to."
> > - Confirmed and fixed. The fix is generic: auctioning will 
> now never 
> > change the PD after bidding in any game. Not sure of this rule holds
> > for all games, but I'm currently not aware of any exceptions.
> 
> I believe this purchase, like any other, does determine the Priority
> Deal if it is followed by everyone passing (even though it does not
> change who is next in the stock round that was interrupted by the
> auction).  I would handle this by making the auction its own "round"
> (which implies that one "round" can interrupt another - a capability
> that would also apply to the minor-exchange rounds in 1835/37/2038,
> CGR formation in 1856, and mergers and the IRSFF split in 1841).
 
I don't think so.
On what written 1830 rule would you base your statement: 'I believe 
this purchase, like any other, does determine the Priority Deal 
if it is followed by everyone passing'?

The round-within-a-round approach is indeed what Rails does (or will do
when the time comes) in the other cases that you mention. 
But not (yet) in the 1830-style auction-within-the-initial-round.
Thinking about it, that might indeed have simplified the code.

Regards,
Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug reports

[Jim B. <jim...@ya...>]

PS.  John,

btw- I'd defer to your 18xx experience (especially wrt 18al!), and I  
don't know what 1830 rules interpretations have been most  
'conventional', etc.

but I've play a handful of games with experienced players though (f2f  
and pbem), and this is the way they all play 1830- that's why I  
noticed, as I was trying to learn 18xx myself, hosting some rails  
games- and started triangulating between their games, rails, the  
printed rules, other references/etc.  across a bunch of diverse play  
groups (us & intl), these are common interpretations, it seems?

as a result- frequently in pbem games, rails players will casually  
'pass around the table'- in an effort to manipulate priority to 'where  
it belongs'.  (but, in the process- one 1830 player accidentally  
caused all the privates to payout for an extra round, before things  
even got started! ;-)

best,
  - jim


On Nov 19, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Jim Black wrote:

> John,
>
> I filed those bugs and noticed your comments- you may like to review
> the bug reports on rail's sourceforge page.
>
> There's very specific rules citations from the printed 1830 rules text
> in the comments for these bugs that involve priority, the privates-
> auctions, dropping out of a privates auction, etc .  (Note: these
> citations refer to very specific italicized examples, in the printed
> 1830 manual.)
>
> Regardless- it would be great if you'd be willing to annotate those
> bugs, in sourceforge, with your relevant concerns?  No worries, if
> that's awkward.
>
> best regards,
>  - jim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008  
> 30-Day
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and  
> focus on
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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