qtractor-devel — Qtractor development discussion

[Qtractor-devel] Blingbling request

[Martin S. <mar...@zt...>]

Hi im wondering if its possible in future to add to function add track 
icon (Like some other DAWs' like cakewalk etc)
perhaps in the same position as the "track color" see my image ive sent 
with this post.

For me this would be great :D

Sincerally
Martin aka Ztealmax

Re: [Qtractor-devel] [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM]

[Kazakore <dj...@ho...>]

On 05/09/14 14:08, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> On 2014-09-05 02:32, Kazakore wrote:
>> On 05/09/14 03:56, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
>>> On 09/04/2014 10:34 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms.
>>>> Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't 
>>>> remember
>>>> the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in
>>>> sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new
>>>> hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts 
>>>> jackd
>>>> with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour 
>>>> users, but
>>>> a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken?
>>>>
>>>
>>> i really don't get why it would have worse or better sync depending 
>>> on jackd latency settings. please forgive me, but i don't see it 
>>> directly related to the case of audio vs. midi sync...
>>>
>>> though, in the special case that comes to mind, iif the alsa-midi 
>>> timer is slaved to a pcm sound-device, as against to the system or 
>>> hires timer for instance, you probably will get it different whether 
>>> running on disparate buffer-sizes, periods and/or sample-rates, 
>>> that's for granted--well, if you change the sample-rate across 
>>> sessions you will get prompted to convert into a brand new and 
>>> different session anyhow ;)
>>>
>>> byee
>> Huh??
>>
>> So you have audio coming from the PC and MIDI going out to external
>> sound generating MIDI devices and you don't see how output latency
>> from the computer can affect the timing sync between sound from the
>> computer and sound from the audio modules??? Surely even a blind
>> wombat could see that! Unless there is some magic in Jack/AlsaMIDI
>> which automagically delays the MIDI by the same as the output buffer
>> settings of Jack. Then some might also want to add a fixed delay value
>> to take into account the hardware delay (propagation time) but I think
>> we really are getting a bit complex now!
>>
>
> re. external midi equipment, probably yes, that might be pertinent, 
> but...
>
> my point was about audio and midi sync within qtractor (the sequencer) 
> internally. once midi gets out of the sequencer or even of the 
> machine, then i doubt one can ever compensate effectively for the 
> delay, drift or jitter that will be always present, no mater how small 
> but orthogonal to jackd buffer-size, periods or sample-rate, whatever, 
> and sure matters to a perfect sync. i doubt the output latency of the 
> in-machine jack-audio graph might be any significant or functional to 
> that goal.
>
I should probably drop out of this conversation as I haven't used 
QTractor nor have I used any external gear for quite some time. But if 
the issue is with external then you also need to bear in mind that you 
might send some internally and some externally, so applying the same 
delay to everything will still put some parts out of time with others. A 
toggle for a MIDI channel going to int/ext could possibly be one solution??

Or if it is related to internal audio ssync I have to admit I am also 
stumped why this would happen, as all audio coming out of the computer 
would be going through the same audio buffers (Jack) and delayed the 
same amount!
>> Although I very much doubt anybody would be able to hear the
>> difference if you're only talking a couple of ms and have different
>> sounds both internally and externally (same sounds would cause comb
>> filtering and eventually echo once latency became high enough.)
>>
>
> exactly :)
>
Plus (extrapolating from Ralf's comments) you clearly do already provide 
a way for the adjustment to be done manually! Even if it is harder work 
for the user...

Re: [Qtractor-devel] [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM]

[Rui N. C. <rn...@rn...>]

On 2014-09-05 02:32, Kazakore wrote:
> On 05/09/14 03:56, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
>> On 09/04/2014 10:34 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>> 
>>> This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms.
>>> Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't 
>>> remember
>>> the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in
>>> sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new
>>> hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts 
>>> jackd
>>> with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour users, 
>>> but
>>> a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken?
>>> 
>> 
>> i really don't get why it would have worse or better sync depending on 
>> jackd latency settings. please forgive me, but i don't see it directly 
>> related to the case of audio vs. midi sync...
>> 
>> though, in the special case that comes to mind, iif the alsa-midi 
>> timer is slaved to a pcm sound-device, as against to the system or 
>> hires timer for instance, you probably will get it different whether 
>> running on disparate buffer-sizes, periods and/or sample-rates, that's 
>> for granted--well, if you change the sample-rate across sessions you 
>> will get prompted to convert into a brand new and different session 
>> anyhow ;)
>> 
>> byee
> Huh??
> 
> So you have audio coming from the PC and MIDI going out to external
> sound generating MIDI devices and you don't see how output latency
> from the computer can affect the timing sync between sound from the
> computer and sound from the audio modules??? Surely even a blind
> wombat could see that! Unless there is some magic in Jack/AlsaMIDI
> which automagically delays the MIDI by the same as the output buffer
> settings of Jack. Then some might also want to add a fixed delay value
> to take into account the hardware delay (propagation time) but I think
> we really are getting a bit complex now!
> 

re. external midi equipment, probably yes, that might be pertinent, 
but...

my point was about audio and midi sync within qtractor (the sequencer) 
internally. once midi gets out of the sequencer or even of the machine, 
then i doubt one can ever compensate effectively for the delay, drift or 
jitter that will be always present, no mater how small but orthogonal to 
jackd buffer-size, periods or sample-rate, whatever, and sure matters to 
a perfect sync. i doubt the output latency of the in-machine jack-audio 
graph might be any significant or functional to that goal.

> Although I very much doubt anybody would be able to hear the
> difference if you're only talking a couple of ms and have different
> sounds both internally and externally (same sounds would cause comb
> filtering and eventually echo once latency became high enough.)
> 

exactly :)

> But this is true for ALL audio coming out of the sequencer, whether
> you recorded it or it's from a sample-pack or a soft-synth etc etc.
> 
> tl/dr: All that is really needed is an option to delay MIDI signals by
> the amount of the audio output buffer (plus you could add the optional
> hardware delay in settings if you really wished). This should bring
> output of both audio and MIDI sounds as close to sync as is possible,
> with the real-world systems being as imperfect as they are.
> 

cheers
-- 
rncbc aka. Rui Nuno Capela

Re: [Qtractor-devel] [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM]

[Kazakore <dj...@ho...>]

On 05/09/14 03:56, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> On 09/04/2014 10:34 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>
>> This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms.
>> Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't remember
>> the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in
>> sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new
>> hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts jackd
>> with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour users, but
>> a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken?
>>
>
> i really don't get why it would have worse or better sync depending on 
> jackd latency settings. please forgive me, but i don't see it directly 
> related to the case of audio vs. midi sync...
>
> though, in the special case that comes to mind, iif the alsa-midi 
> timer is slaved to a pcm sound-device, as against to the system or 
> hires timer for instance, you probably will get it different whether 
> running on disparate buffer-sizes, periods and/or sample-rates, that's 
> for granted--well, if you change the sample-rate across sessions you 
> will get prompted to convert into a brand new and different session 
> anyhow ;)
>
> byee
Huh??

So you have audio coming from the PC and MIDI going out to external 
sound generating MIDI devices and you don't see how output latency from 
the computer can affect the timing sync between sound from the computer 
and sound from the audio modules??? Surely even a blind wombat could see 
that! Unless there is some magic in Jack/AlsaMIDI which automagically 
delays the MIDI by the same as the output buffer settings of Jack. Then 
some might also want to add a fixed delay value to take into account the 
hardware delay (propagation time) but I think we really are getting a 
bit complex now!

Although I very much doubt anybody would be able to hear the difference 
if you're only talking a couple of ms and have different sounds both 
internally and externally (same sounds would cause comb filtering and 
eventually echo once latency became high enough.)

But this is true for ALL audio coming out of the sequencer, whether you 
recorded it or it's from a sample-pack or a soft-synth etc etc.

tl/dr: All that is really needed is an option to delay MIDI signals by 
the amount of the audio output buffer (plus you could add the optional 
hardware delay in settings if you really wished). This should bring 
output of both audio and MIDI sounds as close to sync as is possible, 
with the real-world systems being as imperfect as they are.

Dale.

Re: [Qtractor-devel] [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM]

[Kazakore <dj...@ho...>]

On 05/09/14 03:56, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> On 09/04/2014 10:34 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>
>> This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms.
>> Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't remember
>> the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in
>> sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new
>> hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts jackd
>> with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour users, but
>> a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken?
>>
>
> i really don't get why it would have worse or better sync depending on 
> jackd latency settings. please forgive me, but i don't see it directly 
> related to the case of audio vs. midi sync...
>
> though, in the special case that comes to mind, iif the alsa-midi 
> timer is slaved to a pcm sound-device, as against to the system or 
> hires timer for instance, you probably will get it different whether 
> running on disparate buffer-sizes, periods and/or sample-rates, that's 
> for granted--well, if you change the sample-rate across sessions you 
> will get prompted to convert into a brand new and different session 
> anyhow ;)
>
> byee
Huh??

So you have audio coming from the PC and MIDI going out to external 
sound generating MIDI devices and you don't see how output latency from 
the computer can affect the timing sync between sound from the computer 
and sound from the audio modules??? Surely even a blind wombat could see 
that! Unless there is some magic in Jack/AlsaMIDI which automagically 
delays the MIDI by the same as the output buffer settings of Jack. Then 
some might also want to add a fixed delay value to take into account the 
hardware delay (propagation time) but I think we really are getting a 
bit complex now!

Although I very much doubt anybody would be able to hear the difference 
if you're only talking a couple of ms and have different sounds both 
internally and externally (same sounds would cause comb filtering and 
eventually echo once latency became high enough.)

But this is true for ALL audio coming out of the sequencer, whether you 
recorded it or it's from a sample-pack or a soft-synth etc etc.

tl/dr: All that is really needed is an option to delay MIDI signals by 
the amount of the audio output buffer (plus you could add the optional 
hardware delay in settings if you really wished). This should bring 
output of both audio and MIDI sounds as close to sync as is possible, 
with the real-world systems being as imperfect as they are.

Dale.

Re: [Qtractor-devel] [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM]

[Rui N. C. <rn...@rn...>]

On 09/04/2014 10:34 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms.
> Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't remember
> the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in
> sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new
> hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts jackd
> with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour users, but
> a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken?
>

i really don't get why it would have worse or better sync depending on 
jackd latency settings. please forgive me, but i don't see it directly 
related to the case of audio vs. midi sync...

though, in the special case that comes to mind, iif the alsa-midi timer 
is slaved to a pcm sound-device, as against to the system or hires timer 
for instance, you probably will get it different whether running on 
disparate buffer-sizes, periods and/or sample-rates, that's for 
granted--well, if you change the sample-rate across sessions you will 
get prompted to convert into a brand new and different session anyhow ;)

byee
-- 
rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela
rn...@rn...

Re: [Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: [LAU] Session management with NSM]

[Rui N. C. <rn...@rn...>]

On 09/04/2014 09:33 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> -------- Forwarded Message --------From: Ralf Mardorf
> <ral...@ro...>
> To: qtr...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Qtractor-devel] ; ) Was - Re: [LAU] Session management
> with NSM
> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:31:15 +0200
> Mailer: Evolution 3.12.5
>
> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 21:27 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
>> On 09/04/2014 07:49 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>> Rui :)
>>>
>>> please consider to automatically add to
>>>
>>> File > Properties ... > Description
>>>
>>> the jackd "in" and "out" reported latency ;). Since the MIDI resolution
>>> steps don't provide ms, frame information, a written note could help to
>>> fix sync problems, without using a calculator.
>>>
>>> (I don't need it, perhaps you could add an option to the preferences, to
>>> uncheck this feature ;)
>>>
>>
>> jack_lsp -l  does report latency of every port
>>
>> byee
>
> It doesn't report the latency a session was recoded 2 years ago.
>

and why would that be interesting?

qtractor does its "recording/input latency compensation" of audio cľips 
*at the time* the audio material is captured, so that material gets 
aligned with the audio/MIDI content already in session and possibly 
being played back at the time of the recording. never again it gets 
adjusted no matter what jackd parameters change later, be that for worse 
or better. that's it.

please understand that this is the only kind of latency compensation 
qtractor does and nothing else. nb. qtractor does NOT compensate for 
in-line output or plugin chain latency. never did and quite frankly it 
won't do so soon, i'm afraid.

i really don't see how having distinct jackd i/o latency settings 
(buffer-size, periods, sample-rate) may lead to audio going out of sync 
to MIDI--if it does get out-of-sync anyway, it is probably because 
something else but latency compensation related, not to tell that 
session-management has nothing to do with either.

cheers
-- 
rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela
rn...@rn...

ps. if audio and MIDI get out of sync, timer type and/or resolution 
might be the top suspect.

[Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: [LAU] Session management with NSM]

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

-------- Forwarded Message --------From: Ralf Mardorf
<ral...@ro...>
To: qtr...@li...
Subject: Re: [Qtractor-devel] ; ) Was - Re: [LAU] Session management
with NSM
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:31:15 +0200
Mailer: Evolution 3.12.5 

On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 21:27 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> On 09/04/2014 07:49 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > Rui :)
> >
> > please consider to automatically add to
> >
> > File > Properties ... > Description
> >
> > the jackd "in" and "out" reported latency ;). Since the MIDI resolution
> > steps don't provide ms, frame information, a written note could help to
> > fix sync problems, without using a calculator.
> >
> > (I don't need it, perhaps you could add an option to the preferences, to
> > uncheck this feature ;)
> >
> 
> jack_lsp -l  does report latency of every port
> 
> byee

It doesn't report the latency a session was recoded 2 years ago.

Re: [Qtractor-devel] ; ) Was - Re: [LAU] Session management with NSM

[Rui N. C. <rn...@rn...>]

On 09/04/2014 07:49 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Rui :)
>
> please consider to automatically add to
>
> File > Properties ... > Description
>
> the jackd "in" and "out" reported latency ;). Since the MIDI resolution
> steps don't provide ms, frame information, a written note could help to
> fix sync problems, without using a calculator.
>
> (I don't need it, perhaps you could add an option to the preferences, to
> uncheck this feature ;)
>

jack_lsp -l  does report latency of every port

byee
-- 
rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela
rn...@rn...

[Qtractor-devel] ;) Was - Re: [LAU] Session management with NSM

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

Rui :)

please consider to automatically add to

File > Properties ... > Description

the jackd "in" and "out" reported latency ;). Since the MIDI resolution
steps don't provide ms, frame information, a written note could help to
fix sync problems, without using a calculator.

(I don't need it, perhaps you could add an option to the preferences, to
uncheck this feature ;)

Regards,
Ralf

[Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: [LAU] Session management with NSM]

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

-------- Forwarded Message --------From: Ralf Mardorf
<ral...@ro...>
To: lin...@li...
Subject: Re: [LAU] Session management with NSM
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 22:43:35 +0200
Mailer: Evolution 3.12.5 

On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 20:38 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 10:32:25PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>  
> > I use scripts to store and restore my sessions. Perhaps X is
> > unimportant, but some folks perhaps want that some apps open on another
> > workspace/virtual desktop than other apps do. I even don't care about
> > this, but IMO session managers can't provide what a user's script could
> > provide. For example, jackd settings are very important, assumed you use
> > an app as Qtractor. Qtractor does move audio recordings as good as it
> > can (not really perfect) depending to the jackd latency, assumed you
> > should change the latency, then your audio tracks and MIDI tracks would
> > be out of sync.
> 
> Which, if true, would only mean that Qtractor does its latency
> compensation the wrong way. Note the 'if true'.

For the versions of Qtractor I used it is true. An issue for me, because
I like to be able to use different latencies, at different work stages.
I'm aware that Ardour's latency compensation is smarter. But IMO it's
important, that Linux users who prefer session managers, at least get
informed about such issues, what ever applications they use.

Re: [Qtractor-devel] [LAU] Session management with NSM

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

I don't care, I start all my sessions by scripts:

On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 22:32 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 11:57:05AM -0700, J. Liles wrote:
> > > Nor do I consider Xorg to be inside the session.
> 
> I use scripts to store and restore my sessions. Perhaps X is
> unimportant, but some folks perhaps want that some apps open on another
> workspace/virtual desktop than other apps do. I even don't care about
> this, but IMO session managers can't provide what a user's script could
> provide. For example, jackd settings are very important, assumed you use
> an app as Qtractor. Qtractor does move audio recordings as good as it
> can (not really perfect) depending to the jackd latency, assumed you
> should change the latency, then your audio tracks and MIDI tracks would
> be out of sync.
> 
> > The problem is also in thinking of JACK as something *inside* a
> > session.
> 
> IOW an app as Qtractor with a "strange" latency compensation is unusable
> in combination with a session manager that doesn't care about jackd?
> 
> Btw. I just read one mail, not the whole thread, but I'm very amused
> about this unworldly point of view.
> 
> "NSM (Non session management) support." -
> http://qtractor.sourceforge.net/qtractor-index.html
> 
> :D
> 
> Am I missing something?

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Qtractor 0.6.2 and fluidsynth 1.1.6

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

On Sun, 2014-08-17 at 13:06 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
> hi,
> 
> On 08/10/2014 09:01 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Sun, 2014-08-10 at 21:52 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >> Track 1 MIDI ch 1 fluidsynth dssi = ok
> >> + Track 2 MIDI ch 2 fluidsynth dssi = Qtractor crashes
> >>                 ^^^^
> >
> > A new song and now it works :(.
> >
> 
> there was an old patch from yours truly to fluidsynth-dssi 1.0.0 which 
> fixes its crash-behavior on close when having multiple plugin instances.
> 
> the newer fluidsynth-dssi git repo seems to have it applied but still 
> tags it as 1.0.0.
> 
> are sure you're not using the older release 1.0.0 version (ca.2009) ?

With the new song, the problems with fluidsynth-dssi are gone, so I will
not upgrade during this production.

Some files are from 2005, others are from 2009 and 2013:

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls -hAl /usr/src/fluidsynth-dssi-1.0.0/
total 1.6M
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 328K Jan  5  2009 aclocal.m4
-rwxr-xr-x 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  735 May 10  2005 autogen.sh
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 2.9K Jan  5  2009 ChangeLog
-rwxr-xr-x 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  44K Jan 28  2008 config.guess
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 2.8K Apr 23  2013 config.h
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 2.6K Jan  5  2009 config.h.in
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  27K Apr 23  2013 config.log
-rwxr-xr-x 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  59K Apr 23  2013 config.status
-rwxr-xr-x 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  33K Jan 28  2008 config.sub
-rwxr-xr-x 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 434K Jan  5  2009 configure
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 3.0K Jan  5  2009 configure.ac
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  18K Mar 17  2008 COPYING
-rwxr-xr-x 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  18K Jan 28  2008 depcomp
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 9.1K Mar  3  2005 INSTALL
-rwxr-xr-x 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  14K Jan 28  2008 install-sh
-rwxr-xr-x 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 252K Apr 23  2013 libtool
-rwxr-xr-x 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 238K Jan  5  2009 ltmain.sh
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  21K Apr 23  2013 Makefile
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  130 Nov 10  2008 Makefile.am
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  20K Jan  5  2009 Makefile.in
-rwxr-xr-x 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  11K Jan 28  2008 missing
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse 6.8K Jan  5  2009 README
drwxr-xr-x 3 rocketmouse rocketmouse 4.0K Apr 23  2013 src
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse   23 Apr 23  2013 stamp-h1
-rw-r--r-- 1 rocketmouse rocketmouse  134 Apr 24  2005 TODO

when the song is finished, I'll uninstall it and build the maintained
package from https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fluidsynth-dssi/ .

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Qtractor 0.6.2 and fluidsynth 1.1.6

[Rui N. C. <rn...@rn...>]

hi,

On 08/10/2014 09:01 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sun, 2014-08-10 at 21:52 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> Track 1 MIDI ch 1 fluidsynth dssi = ok
>> + Track 2 MIDI ch 2 fluidsynth dssi = Qtractor crashes
>>                 ^^^^
>
> A new song and now it works :(.
>

there was an old patch from yours truly to fluidsynth-dssi 1.0.0 which 
fixes its crash-behavior on close when having multiple plugin instances.

the newer fluidsynth-dssi git repo seems to have it applied but still 
tags it as 1.0.0.

are sure you're not using the older release 1.0.0 version (ca.2009) ?

byee--
rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela
rn...@rn...

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Inserts and synth plugins

[Holger M. <ho...@ma...>]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> Guten Morgen Holger :)
> 
> On Fri, 2014-08-15 at 10:08 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote:
> > Linuxsampler has no builtin GUI, that's a design decision. In Qtractor
> > both linuxsampler-dssi and linuxsampler-lv2 work ok. You have to load
> > the sounds with Qsampler or Jsampler, then Qtractor saves this settings
> > in the session file.
> 
> Thank you. Another issue, but I migh be mistaken, IIRC Linuxsampler
> didn't resample, if the samples were 44.1 KHZ and I wanted to produce
> using 48KHz this didn't work.

Never tried since my projects and my jackd all use 44.1 kHz.

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Inserts and synth plugins

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

Guten Morgen Holger :)

On Fri, 2014-08-15 at 10:08 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote:
> Linuxsampler has no builtin GUI, that's a design decision. In Qtractor
> both linuxsampler-dssi and linuxsampler-lv2 work ok. You have to load
> the sounds with Qsampler or Jsampler, then Qtractor saves this settings
> in the session file.

Thank you. Another issue, but I migh be mistaken, IIRC Linuxsampler
didn't resample, if the samples were 44.1 KHZ and I wanted to produce
using 48KHz this didn't work.

> I'll send you some free sf2 soundfonts with Mellotron sounds that I
> found on the web.

Thank you, that would be very kind.I guess you need to do this off-list.

Gruß,
Ralf

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Creating a new bus in Qtractor

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

On Thu, 2014-08-14 at 21:26 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote:
> Unfortunately AUX sends in Qtractor are pre fader. I'd prefer them
> being post fader, too.

But I guess you're right regarding volume of synth plugins is controlled
by MIDI CC and that the fader doesn't control the audio stream behind
the plugins, so the "pre fader aux", will be post aux for synth plugins.
At the moment I only plan to do some MIDI recording, so I won't waste
more time with this annoyances and try to use the available aux sends.

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Inserts and synth plugins

[Holger M. <ho...@ma...>]

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> On Thu, 2014-08-14 at 21:39 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote:
> > I use the limiter as the first plugin as a "gain knob". It never has
> > something to limit. It's there "just to be sure".
> 
> Many people unfortunately use limiters and all kinds of dynamic effects
> in combination with automation, so IMO a lot of fineness gets lost.
> 
> Gain indeed could be an issue. Since I want an EQ for each channel and
> fil-plugins, Fons' parametric EQ is ok, I use it, not only for filtering
> frequencies, but also to control gain. The EQ does provide gain control,
> even when the filters are bypassed.

I ended up with Calf Limiter as a gain tool because it offers a VU
meter, too. So it's easy to see if linuxsampler is too loud and would
cause some distortion in the following plugins. Setting linuxsampler's
volume wasn't reliable in my setup. Sometimes it forgot its settings. So
I keep linuxsampler at 100% and damp it with Calf Limiter.

A simple amp with a VU-meter or an overdrive indicator would do the job
as well but I haven't found one yet.

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Inserts and synth plugins

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

On Thu, 2014-08-14 at 21:39 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote:
> I use the limiter as the first plugin as a "gain knob". It never has
> something to limit. It's there "just to be sure".

Many people unfortunately use limiters and all kinds of dynamic effects
in combination with automation, so IMO a lot of fineness gets lost.

Gain indeed could be an issue. Since I want an EQ for each channel and
fil-plugins, Fons' parametric EQ is ok, I use it, not only for filtering
frequencies, but also to control gain. The EQ does provide gain control,
even when the filters are bypassed.

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Inserts and synth plugins

[Holger M. <ho...@ma...>]

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 19:59 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote:
> > http://www.marzen.de/tmp/qtractor-mixer.png
> 
> Most times in my life I worked as an audio and video engineer, so I
> expect for my home recording the same professional workflow. Your
> approach of mixing seems to be completely different to mine. I'm doing
> old school engineering, IOW the basic for the song I' doing now, for
> each channel is Fons' parametric EQ and I will add at least one aux for
> reverb today, but limiting/compression is something to avoid. Placing

I use the limiter as the first plugin as a "gain knob". It never has
something to limit. It's there "just to be sure".

For vocals I used offline compressing for some time, now I use online
compressing. I like it for pop music.

> instruments in the "frequency room" by using EQs or by killing dynamic
> are completely different schools. The long and the short of it, you
> found your personal way using Qtracor in a satisfying way, but Qtractor
> hardly can be used for a common professional engineering workflow.
> Qtractor's mixer design needs a lot of improvement. A good mixer without
> automation is better, than such an unfinished mixer with automation.

Automation comes very handy to activate an AUX send to an echo when I
want to echo only one word or a few notes.

> Note that motorized faders in professional studios are seldom used to
> move the faders during a production, they usually are used to restore
> different production mixer settings. Panning vs balance and audio vs
> MIDI CC fading are also serious issues. The mixer should control the
> audio stream and not send MIDI CCs. For stereo channels there should be
> the choice to balance between left and right or to individual pan the
> left and the right channel.

Of course the mixer in Qtractor can be improved:
- Multiple rows for the channel strip to get them onto the screen at
  once
- Switchable pre/post fader for AUX sends and Inserts
- Second fader and VU-meter (audio) for MIDI-tracks

Yes, there are some issues with AUX sends. Sometimes the order is
important. But with the song I am working I have no problem having an
echo bus, AUX sends to this bus and an Insert (working as a Send only)
to a Reverb's bus' input, so the echo gets some reverb.

Not a perfect solution but it works and it's free and open source
software. As you could see I enlarged the plugin boxes in the mixer
strips. That would be impossible with closed source software.

BTW I am no developer. I use Qtractor and write bug reports and
wishlists.

If you want to go "pro-like" maybe Harrison Mixbus is something for you.
It's a commercial version of Ardour.

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Creating a new bus in Qtractor

[Holger M. <ho...@ma...>]

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> On Thu, 2014-08-14 at 16:06 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > I want to add aux sends to my tracks and need a new bus for those sends.
> > How can I create a new bus?
> > 
> > View > Buses... (or the same option selected by the aux send plugin)
> > does _not_ allow to create a new bus, neither for an existing .qtr, nor
> > if I start a new project.
> > 
> > Create, Update, Delete and Refresh are shadowed on the bottom of the
> > window and for the right click menu. For audio and MIDI.
> > 
> > [rocketmouse@archlinux arch2014.1]$ pacman -Qi qtractor
> > Name           : qtractor
> > Version        : 0.6.2-1
> > Packager       : Rashif Rahman (Ray) <sc...@ar...>
> > 
> > In the past I build Qtractor myself, nowadays I use packages from
> > repositories. As already pointed out this month at Qtrator devel, I
> > always experienced all kinds of issues with signal routing when using
> > Qtractor in the last years, so I don't think the issue is related to the
> > Arch package.
> > 
> > Without aux send, no sane usage of a reverb!
> 
> JFTR, assumed it should be possible to get a new stereo bus, are the aux
> send plug ins pre or post fader? Pre fader would be completely useless!
> For MIDI synth plugins, when the volume is controlled by MIDI CC, then
> sure, an aux only can be post fader. But for audio? I fear to get a pre
> fader aux.

Unfortunately AUX sends in Qtractor are pre fader. I'd prefer them being
post fader, too.

> I searched the Internet and I didn't found any sane virtual mixer. Is
> there a mixer?

Did you try Non Mixer?

[Qtractor-devel] [solved] Creating a new bus in Qtractor

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

-------- Forwarded Message --------
>From wrong account
To: qtractor-devel
Cc: ArchAudio, schiv AT archlinux.org
Subject: [solved] Creating a new bus in Qtractor
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:53:20 +0200
Mailer: Evolution 3.12.4 

"Select one of the buses of the type of bus that you want to create
(MIDI or Audio) and it's properties will be shown. Once you change the
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
name, the Update and Create buttons will be available."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There still is to test, if audio track aux sends will be post fader.

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Creating a new bus in Qtractor

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

On Thu, 2014-08-14 at 16:06 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> I want to add aux sends to my tracks and need a new bus for those sends.
> How can I create a new bus?
> 
> View > Buses... (or the same option selected by the aux send plugin)
> does _not_ allow to create a new bus, neither for an existing .qtr, nor
> if I start a new project.
> 
> Create, Update, Delete and Refresh are shadowed on the bottom of the
> window and for the right click menu. For audio and MIDI.
> 
> [rocketmouse@archlinux arch2014.1]$ pacman -Qi qtractor
> Name           : qtractor
> Version        : 0.6.2-1
> Packager       : Rashif Rahman (Ray) <sc...@ar...>
> 
> In the past I build Qtractor myself, nowadays I use packages from
> repositories. As already pointed out this month at Qtrator devel, I
> always experienced all kinds of issues with signal routing when using
> Qtractor in the last years, so I don't think the issue is related to the
> Arch package.
> 
> Without aux send, no sane usage of a reverb!

JFTR, assumed it should be possible to get a new stereo bus, are the aux
send plug ins pre or post fader? Pre fader would be completely useless!
For MIDI synth plugins, when the volume is controlled by MIDI CC, then
sure, an aux only can be post fader. But for audio? I fear to get a pre
fader aux.

I searched the Internet and I didn't found any sane virtual mixer. Is
there a mixer?

I need stereo or mono channels, it doesn't matter. If stereo channels
only provide balance, it's ok, real panning would be better.

An insert (audio out/in) would be good, but isn't needed, inserting LV2
and LADSP effects would be good, but isn't needed, with one exception,
each channel needs an EQ (Fons' parametric EQ or a similar EQ) and I
need at least one _post_ fader aux send to a sub group or at least to an
aux return pot for the stereo master sum. Pre fader aux would be
completely useless.

Regards,
Ralf

[Qtractor-devel] Creating a new bus in Qtractor

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

I want to add aux sends to my tracks and need a new bus for those sends.
How can I create a new bus?

View > Buses... (or the same option selected by the aux send plugin)
does _not_ allow to create a new bus, neither for an existing .qtr, nor
if I start a new project.

Create, Update, Delete and Refresh are shadowed on the bottom of the
window and for the right click menu. For audio and MIDI.

[rocketmouse@archlinux arch2014.1]$ pacman -Qi qtractor
Name           : qtractor
Version        : 0.6.2-1
Packager       : Rashif Rahman (Ray) <sc...@ar...>

In the past I build Qtractor myself, nowadays I use packages from
repositories. As already pointed out this month at Qtrator devel, I
always experienced all kinds of issues with signal routing when using
Qtractor in the last years, so I don't think the issue is related to the
Arch package.

Without aux send, no sane usage of a reverb!

Re: [Qtractor-devel] Inserts and synth plugins

[Ralf M. <ral...@al...>]

On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 19:59 +0200, Holger Marzen wrote:
> http://www.marzen.de/tmp/qtractor-mixer.png

Most times in my life I worked as an audio and video engineer, so I
expect for my home recording the same professional workflow. Your
approach of mixing seems to be completely different to mine. I'm doing
old school engineering, IOW the basic for the song I' doing now, for
each channel is Fons' parametric EQ and I will add at least one aux for
reverb today, but limiting/compression is something to avoid. Placing
instruments in the "frequency room" by using EQs or by killing dynamic
are completely different schools. The long and the short of it, you
found your personal way using Qtracor in a satisfying way, but Qtractor
hardly can be used for a common professional engineering workflow.
Qtractor's mixer design needs a lot of improvement. A good mixer without
automation is better, than such an unfinished mixer with automation.
Note that motorized faders in professional studios are seldom used to
move the faders during a production, they usually are used to restore
different production mixer settings. Panning vs balance and audio vs
MIDI CC fading are also serious issues. The mixer should control the
audio stream and not send MIDI CCs. For stereo channels there should be
the choice to balance between left and right or to individual pan the
left and the right channel.

2 Cents,
Ralf