Re: [qooxdoo-devel] qx GuiBuilder

[Siarhei B. <s.b...@gm...>]

Hello Burak!

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Burak Arslan <bu...@ar...> wrote:
> argh christian, isn't it a tad long, this message? anyway, here you go :)
>
> On Mon, September 29, 2008 14:47, panyasan wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have no problem with a strong point of view on things--we voice some
>> pretty bold claims on the qxtransformer.org website ourselves ;-) -- but
>> it
>> seems to me that there is a difference between "unstable" and "not enough
>> documentation for me to get things working right away". So please in the
>> future, I recommend asking the developers of a project for help if things
>> do
>> not work before passing a judgement on the whole project which will be
>> forever on the internet - I think this is a general point of "netiquette"
>> not only applicable to qxtransformer.
>>
>> As to "unstable", qxtransformer is the basis of several projects that are
>> in
>> production (see the "live project" section on
>> http://qxtransformer.org/a/qxtransformer.org/qxtransformer/) and I use it
>> for development whenever I have time to continue my projects. The problem
>> we
>> have is that we need to update it for 0.8 and that we need more
>> documentation and examples. We appreciate all bug reports on the trac
>> system
>> or preferrably on our google group where we can answer right away. So if
>> you
>> are still interested, ask!
>>
> i thought the project was dead, as i explained earlier. i'll look at qxt
> closer when i'm back to istanbul.
>
>> Further, XSLT *is* difficult to maintain, that is right, but we make a big
>> effort to improve this by including documentation tags in the code that is
>> used to auto-generate documentation for both (xslt template) developers
>> and
>> (qxml tag) end-users. We are not as far with this as we would like to be.
>>
>> On
>> the other hand, xml/xslt is unbeatable in its ability to transform
>> structured data. We can already generate a XML Schema from the API data
>> which allows you to have code completion and suggestion and as-you-type
>> live
>> documentation for the QXML code. This comes free with the XML format, no
>> need to write extra plugins for IDEs.
>>
> i did not say qxt is badly-written. documentation tags have nothing to do
> with it. my problem is with the language itself. please read the first
> reference on my 'strong opinions' post. actually, if you can find the
> time, read the whole five chapters, as it is a great summary on
> programming paradigms. if even then you're still not persuaded that xslt
> is a mistake, and "may lead to unpleasant dead-ends", i won't try to
> change your mind anymore.
>
> what i've been trying to say is also this: if you were not using xslt,
> you'd have one more developer to help with qxt ;)

We would be glad. ;) As I said before I stated a port written in python.
It will bring a lot of new features to qxt and can be used inside application
or even for on-the-fly transformation and much more readable templates.
Feel free to join.

If you have any questions or any ideas regarding qxtransformer you can
write a letter to me and Christian or/and join to our google group for further
discussion.

Peace! ;)

Best regards,
Siarhei Barysiuk

>
>> Third, why "invent" new XML tags? Actually, we invent very little. We just
>> follow the object structure of the existing qooxdoo objects (see
>> http://qxtransformer.org/a/qxtransformer.org/qxtransformer/XML-Tags) with
>> some additions and modifications which are meant to make your life easier.
>> Of course, there are always differenct views on what "easier" means, and
>> we
>> are happy to discuss it on the google group and modify templates on user
>> request. To adopt an existing xml language (XUL, XAML, QtDesigner etc.)
>> would mean to have to emulate a lot of stuff that does not exist in
>> qooxdoo,
>> but on the other side omit a lot of other stuff that qooxdo shines at.
>> Early
>> in development, we have come to the conclusion that this would be
>> wasteful.
>>
> i certainly respect that, but i think the above statement deserves further
> elaboration. what stuff does qooxdoo shine at? what stuff it doesn't have?
> to be honest i just did a quick check with qtdesigner, and it seemed
> consistent enough to me. (does qooxdoo have "spacers"?) i did not look at
> other alternatives you cite. i'm sure you looked closer at alternatives,
> so i'd like to hear.
>
>> On the other hand, the great thing about XML is that you can go ahead and
>> write a XSLT template that "translates" XUL, or any other existing XML
>> code
>> into QXML. That's the whole point.
>>
> yes, that's also a possibility. now that my faith in qxt is restored, i
> may choose to go that way.
>
>> Finally, as to your code, Siarhei has already pointed to some things that
>> need to be corrected, and where we have to improve the documentation so
>> that
>> users know why the structure is as it is.
>>
> yes, i'm thankful to siarhei for his taking time to explain. i was
> learning javascript, qooxdoo, qxt all at once, also getting used to this
> whole interpreted world. i should have been more patient.
>
>> We are currently unhappy with
>> our
>> original design that puts a lot of javascript code inline in the GUI
>> description code and have changed the templates to allow to move it out
>> into
>> separate parent classes or mixins. That way, there is a clean separation
>> between GUI description and business logic/event code. Makes the code more
>> beautiful and easier to maintain. Attached is an example for a remote
>> folder
>> tree.
>>
>> Hope this helped to clarify some things.
>>
> of course it did, thanks a lot.
>
> all the best,
> burak
>
>
>
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