qmailadmin-devel — List to discuss future development of QmailAdmin

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] alias2forward.pl

[Michael B. <mb...@pi...>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Collins" <to...@to...>
To: <qma...@li...>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 5:23 AM
Subject: [qmailadmin-devel] alias2forward.pl


> Here's the script for converting Maildir-style aliases to address-style
> forwards.  While I don't have hashed domain directories on my server, I
> was able to test it by crafting bogus .qmail-user files in some of my
> domains.  I've tested it, and even used it on my production server, so
> I'm confident that it works properly.

Nice work Tom!

This tool ran successfully on my production server (which has hashed domains
and also some hashed user directories )

Michael.

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] Updated vpopmail -- please review before public announcement

[Jeff H. <jef...@ma...>]

spork wrote:
>>That would be a no-go.  It appears that something is clobbering some
>>environment variables I need to deliver the mail with maildrop.  My
>>maildrop filters still work fine for mail sent directly to a "real"
>>account,
> 
> And while I'm on this topic, from a quick read of vdelivermail.c, it looks
> like it pulls $EXT and $HOST as environment variables from qmail.  It then
> does a lookup itself to figure out where to go.  Could this in turn be
> exported to eliminate the below hack in most maildrop filters?
> 
>>VHOME=`/home/vpopmail/bin/vuserinfo -d $EXT@$HOST`

This definitely needs to be looked into as a bug, but in the meantime-- 
why don't you check out my mailfilter script here: 
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=qmailadmin&m=105689448125793&w=2

You are calling maildrop from the directory where the Maildir is, why 
not use the PWD environment var instead of running vuserinfo?

That script also picks apart the PWD to get EXT and HOST.

Jeff

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] Updated vpopmail -- please review before public announcement

[spork <sp...@fa...>]

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, spork wrote:

> That would be a no-go.  It appears that something is clobbering some
> environment variables I need to deliver the mail with maildrop.  My
> maildrop filters still work fine for mail sent directly to a "real"
> account,

And while I'm on this topic, from a quick read of vdelivermail.c, it looks
like it pulls $EXT and $HOST as environment variables from qmail.  It then
does a lookup itself to figure out where to go.  Could this in turn be
exported to eliminate the below hack in most maildrop filters?

> VHOME=`/home/vpopmail/bin/vuserinfo -d $EXT@$HOST`

Thanks,

Charles

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] Updated vpopmail -- please review before public announcement

[spork <sp...@fa...>]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Chris Hallgren wrote:

> Wow looks like it fixes the .qmail for the catchall account now. I have not
> tested it yet.

That would be a no-go.  It appears that something is clobbering some
environment variables I need to deliver the mail with maildrop.  My
maildrop filters still work fine for mail sent directly to a "real"
account, but here's what I'm getting from maildrop when sending to a
catchall:

2003-07-19 04:35:34.824884500 starting delivery 11733: msg 43650 to local
fas...@fa...
2003-07-19 04:35:34.826738500 status: local 1/10 remote 0/20
2003-07-19 04:35:35.272375500 delivery 11733: deferral:
Message_start_at_45_bytes,_envelope_sender=sp...@in.../maildrop:_Attempting_/usr/local/etc/mailfilter.user/maildrop:_Filtering_through_`/home/vpopmail/bin/vuserinfo_-d_$EXT@$HOST`//usr/local/bin/maildrop:_Unable_to_create_log_file./
2003-07-19 04:35:35.352168500 status: local 0/10 remote 0/20

This is domain "fasttrackmonkey.com" and I'm sending to
"as...@fa...".

The domain's .qmail-default looks like this:

| /home/vpopmail/bin/vdelivermail '' /home/vpopmail/domains/fasttrackmonkey.com/spork

And the user's .qmail file looks like this:

|preline /usr/local/bin/maildrop -V 2 /usr/local/etc/mailfilter.user

The beginning of mailfilter.user looks like this (I added the "import"
statements, for testing, they were not there before; same result with or
without them):

SHELL="/bin/sh"
import EXT
import HOST
VHOME=`/home/vpopmail/bin/vuserinfo -d $EXT@$HOST`
logfile "$VHOME/maildrop.log"
log "====="
if ( $SIZE < 262144 )
{
        exception {
                xfilter "/usr/local/bin/spamc -f -u $EXT@$HOST"
        }
}

So I've got to back out to 5.3.20, but I'll gladly test any patches, it's
fairly trivial to switch between versions.

Thanks,

Charles

> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Collins" <to...@to...>
> To: <qma...@li...>
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 19:50
> Subject: [qmailadmin-devel] Updated vpopmail -- please review before public
> announcement
>
>
> > <http://sourceforge.net/projects/vpopmail/>
> >
> > There were a lot of patches that went into this release, and I have yet
> > to set up a development server for vpopmail/qmailadmin testing with
> > MySQL databases (although I'm very close to doing so).
> >
> > Can some of you download and compile 5.3.21 on one of your
> > development/test boxes to make sure it at least compiles?  All of the
> > changes seemed sane, but I could have botched something along the way.
> >
> > -T
> >
> > 5.3.21 - released 17-Jul-03
> >
> >          Ole Gjerde
> >          - Check return code from vdeliver_mail in valias code and exit
> >            appropriately on errors.  Previously, mail could be lost.
> >
> >          Cory Wright (and others)
> >          - Fix missing "\" in multi-line #define in vmysql.h.
> >
> >          Maurice Snellen
> >          - When logging POP3 logins, now includes system accounts.
> >
> >          Emris and Jeff Hedlund
> >          - Ignore comments when processing .qmail files.
> >
> >          Moshe Jacobson
> >          - Allow colons in cleartext passwords (vqpasswd() in
> > vpopmail.c).
> >
> >          Jonas Thomsen
> >          - Ignore final '.' in users/assign when running 'vconvert -c
> > -m'.
> >
> >          Michael Bowe
> >          - Remove debug printfs from vdelivermail on overquota bounces.
> >
> >          Jeff Hedlund
> >          - Ignore comments when processing .qmail files.
> >          - Process .qmail file when delivering to local (Maildir)
> > catchall.
> >          - vdelivermail now properly sets $EXT@$HOST and sets Deliver-To
> >            header on local deliveries.
> >
> >          Tom Collins
> >          - Fix usage formatting on vconvert.
> >          - Support for MB/KB quota formats in vmoduser.
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> > With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> > WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> > same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> > _______________________________________________
> > qmailadmin-devel mailing list
> > qma...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qmailadmin-devel
> >
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> _______________________________________________
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> qma...@li...
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>

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] Updated vpopmail -- please review before public announcement

[spork <sp...@fa...>]

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Chris Hallgren wrote:

> Wow looks like it fixes the .qmail for the catchall account now. I have not
> tested it yet. But I would like to hear from others on this and what they
> think of the stabality of the new release of vpopmail\

I'm just about to install it.  I'm hungry for the catchall fix. :)

If anyone is interested, here's some of the errors appearing, this is on
FreeBSD 4.8:

----
gcc -I. -I/usr/local/include/mysql     -g -O2 -Wall -c maildirquota.c
maildirquota.c: In function `readuserquota':
maildirquota.c:188: warning: passing arg 3 of `countcurnew' from
incompatible pointer type
maildirquota.c:196: warning: passing arg 4 of `countsubdir' from
incompatible pointer type
----
gcc -I. -I/usr/local/include/mysql     -g -O2 -Wall -c vpasswd.c
vpasswd.c: In function `get_options':
vpasswd.c:80: warning: unused variable `optarg'
----
gcc -I. -I/usr/local/include/mysql     -g -O2 -Wall -c vdeloldusers.c
vdeloldusers.c: In function `main':
vdeloldusers.c:87: warning: control reaches end of non-void function
----
gcc -I. -I/usr/local/include/mysql     -g -O2 -Wall -c vdominfo.c
vdominfo.c: In function `get_options':
vdominfo.c:85: warning: unused variable `optarg'
----
gcc -I. -I/usr/local/include/mysql     -g -O2 -Wall -c vkill.c
vkill.c: In function `get_options':
vkill.c:52: warning: unused variable `optarg'
----

That's it.  Now to see if it works...

Charles

>
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Collins" <to...@to...>
> To: <qma...@li...>
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 19:50
> Subject: [qmailadmin-devel] Updated vpopmail -- please review before public
> announcement
>
>
> > <http://sourceforge.net/projects/vpopmail/>
> >
> > There were a lot of patches that went into this release, and I have yet
> > to set up a development server for vpopmail/qmailadmin testing with
> > MySQL databases (although I'm very close to doing so).
> >
> > Can some of you download and compile 5.3.21 on one of your
> > development/test boxes to make sure it at least compiles?  All of the
> > changes seemed sane, but I could have botched something along the way.
> >
> > -T
> >
> > 5.3.21 - released 17-Jul-03
> >
> >          Ole Gjerde
> >          - Check return code from vdeliver_mail in valias code and exit
> >            appropriately on errors.  Previously, mail could be lost.
> >
> >          Cory Wright (and others)
> >          - Fix missing "\" in multi-line #define in vmysql.h.
> >
> >          Maurice Snellen
> >          - When logging POP3 logins, now includes system accounts.
> >
> >          Emris and Jeff Hedlund
> >          - Ignore comments when processing .qmail files.
> >
> >          Moshe Jacobson
> >          - Allow colons in cleartext passwords (vqpasswd() in
> > vpopmail.c).
> >
> >          Jonas Thomsen
> >          - Ignore final '.' in users/assign when running 'vconvert -c
> > -m'.
> >
> >          Michael Bowe
> >          - Remove debug printfs from vdelivermail on overquota bounces.
> >
> >          Jeff Hedlund
> >          - Ignore comments when processing .qmail files.
> >          - Process .qmail file when delivering to local (Maildir)
> > catchall.
> >          - vdelivermail now properly sets $EXT@$HOST and sets Deliver-To
> >            header on local deliveries.
> >
> >          Tom Collins
> >          - Fix usage formatting on vconvert.
> >          - Support for MB/KB quota formats in vmoduser.
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> > With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> > WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> > same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> > _______________________________________________
> > qmailadmin-devel mailing list
> > qma...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qmailadmin-devel
> >
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> _______________________________________________
> qmailadmin-devel mailing list
> qma...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qmailadmin-devel
>

[qmailadmin-devel] FW: SpamAssassin web-control interface - proposed project.

[Scott D. <SD...@Es...>]

Proposed Project Summary:

Create a web interface to SpamAssassin userprefs (and more) that
end-users or postmasters can utilize.  

This interface could be bundled with or into QmailAdmin.  I spoke with
Tom Collins about this on the phone - he's not opposed to the idea.

Packaging for RedHat, Debian and BSD style systems should be created.

Extensive documentation should be created.  (a la Like Matt Stimpson and
others? 'qmail toasters')




Reason:

Spam is on the rise.  Spam Sucks.  SpamAssassin kills spam well.
Configuring SA is very time consuming for help-desk staff in small-mid
size ISPs.

The installation of SpamAssassin is well documented and quite effective
for smaller user communities.  A configuration interface for SA
userprefs that can be utilized in a medium to large environment by the
average end-user is desired.  Configuration via shell and text editors
is too complex for most end-users.

SpamAssassin has many features that most end-users will want (or need!)
to take advantage of.  There isn't an easy-to-use interface that lets
end-users control their individual SA settings at this time.  For
extremely small sites this isn't a problem.  For the medium or large
size ISP with several hundred or thousand mailboxes and dozens or
hundreds of email domains, the support time and cost required to
successfully deploy SA is impractical at this time.




I suggest that these are the critical SA features that should be
incorporated in this design:

(note: these features should be configurable to apply to either the
entire mail system, per-domain or per-user..)

- Creation and modification of whitelists.
- Creation and modification of blacklists.
- Control over the score that determines if an email is spam or not.
- provide an interface to the trainable Bayes db.
- Provide a system-enabled action (be it delete, fwd to another mailbox
or move into a specific folder) that does not require interaction with
end-user email client settings.  (I suggest fwd: to a spambin mailbox,
which is auto-purged by the mail system.  i.e. delete all mail older
than x days)
- Provide a default configuration that is effective and end-user
friendly.  Auto-welcome to the system email with documentation and tips
to be included.  Customizable on a per-domain basis.



Secondary, important features that should be incorporated as the system
evolves:

- Provide control of which (if any) rbls are enabled.
- Provide control of which DCC systems are used.
- Provide a facility for anti-virus scanning and reporting.
- Provide reports to show usage, per-domain/user.  Link to MRTG?
- Possibly provide a notification mechanism (pager/email) if significant
deviation from stastical norms occurs.  I.E. client b starts sending
3000 emails/hour - indicating virus activity or a spam blast in
progress.



Comments from the folks that want to help build this interface:

My name is Scott Davis.  I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.  I've been
doing volunteer work for a small ISP here - attempting to implement SA.
SA is installed and will work, but we can not release it to our clients
at this time because of the support burden it would place on our
technical staff.

Generally, the ISP in question wants to give back to the developer
community.  We would like to see an easy-to-use end-user oriented
interface to this system.  We would like to volunteer time and (limited)
application development knowledge towards accomplishing the task.  

I'm new to this open-source development stuff.  You can reach me via the
list, or (416) 481-9794 if you're in North America.  If you want to talk
- just give me a call and I'll call you back.

Thanks!

Scott Davis.

[qmailadmin-devel] alias2forward.pl

[Tom C. <to...@to...>]

Here's the script for converting Maildir-style aliases to address-style 
forwards.  While I don't have hashed domain directories on my server, I 
was able to test it by crafting bogus .qmail-user files in some of my 
domains.  I've tested it, and even used it on my production server, so 
I'm confident that it works properly.

Please take advantage of the "dry run" option (you'll be prompted for 
it) to review the planned changes before letting alias2forward.pl run 
its course.

<http://www.tomlogic.com/qmail/alias2forward.tar.gz>

README.alias2forward:

Use the alias2forward.pl program to go through your existing domains
and convert the aliases in .qmail-user files to forwards.  The newer
versions of QmailAdmin have switched to using forwards for local and
remote users, instead of Maildir delivery for local users.  This
allows for proper processing of the .qmail file in the user's directory.

Note that you must run this script as root or the vpopmail user.

We recommend that you do a dry run first and watch the output to
ensure that all changes will be as expected.

You will be prompted as to whether you want to do a dry run (YES=don't
save changes), and for the qmail directory (if it is not /var/qmail).

Please contact to...@to... with any questions, comments or
suggestions for improvement.

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] Updated vpopmail -- please review before public announcement

[Bill S. <hos...@sh...>]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 05:50  PM, Tom Collins wrote:

> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/vpopmail/>
>
> There were a lot of patches that went into this release, and I have 
> yet to set up a development server for vpopmail/qmailadmin testing 
> with MySQL databases (although I'm very close to doing so).
>
> Can some of you download and compile 5.3.21 on one of your 
> development/test boxes to make sure it at least compiles?  All of the 
> changes seemed sane, but I could have botched something along the way.

I compiled with MySQL support, roaming users, and logging=v, and 
successfully created a domain and added a user.  That's all I've had 
time to do far, but it looks good at this point.

The only thing I saw was that Jeff's "Ignore comments in .qmail files" 
change is listed twice.

Regards,

Bill

>         Emris and Jeff Hedlund
>         - Ignore comments when processing .qmail files.
>
>          Jeff Hedlund
>         - Ignore comments when processing .qmail files.
>         - Process .qmail file when delivering to local (Maildir) 
> catchall.
>         - vdelivermail now properly sets $EXT@$HOST and sets Deliver-To
>           header on local deliveries.

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] alias2forward.pl, other notes on upgrading

[Bill S. <hos...@sh...>]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 12:30  PM, Tom Collins wrote:

> I have 'alias2forward.pl' working (80 lines), and just need to add a 
> few prompts to it (prompt for qmail path if it isn't /var/qmail, 
> prompt for whether it should do a dry-run and show what will happen, 
> or just go for it).
>
> It turned out to be a little tricky, because it has to work with 
> hashed domains (e.g., ~vpopmail/domains/0/test.com).  It ignores alias 
> domains where it's already processed the "real domain".  I also 
> included code to ignore symbolic links (ezmlm files).  It could 
> probably be done with a shell script, but I lack the mad shell skillz 
> to do it.
>
> It only rewrites the file if it made changes.  It only changes lines 
> that start with /, and end with /Maildir (with an optional trailing 
> /).  I ran into some files on my system (ezmlm list owner aliases) 
> that didn't have the trailing slash, and worried that there might be 
> some other instances where it's missing, so I made it optional.
>
> Since it overwrites the old file with the new information (again, only 
> if there were changes), the permissions remain unchanged.  I'll put it 
> online, or post it to the list for others to test on development 
> servers, and it will be included with the 1.0.25 release, along with 
> notes in the CHANGELOG, README and UPGRADING files.
>
> If anyone wants to take the plunge and start writing a document that 
> will help vpopmail 5.2.1/qmailadmin 1.0.6 admins upgrade to the 
> vpopmail 5.4/qmailadmin 1.2 release, I'd appreciate it.  You would 
> have to review the Changelogs, summarize architectural changes that 
> would affect them, and introduce some of the new features (like 
> valiases, the new vlimits code, current state of SpamAssassin 
> integration, new configure options, etc.).

I might have time to start on this later this weekend.

Bill

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] Updated vpopmail -- please review before public announcement

[Chris H. <cha...@ch...>]

Wow looks like it fixes the .qmail for the catchall account now. I have not
tested it yet. But I would like to hear from others on this and what they
think of the stabality of the new release of vpopmail\


Chris
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Collins" <to...@to...>
To: <qma...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 19:50
Subject: [qmailadmin-devel] Updated vpopmail -- please review before public
announcement


> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/vpopmail/>
>
> There were a lot of patches that went into this release, and I have yet
> to set up a development server for vpopmail/qmailadmin testing with
> MySQL databases (although I'm very close to doing so).
>
> Can some of you download and compile 5.3.21 on one of your
> development/test boxes to make sure it at least compiles?  All of the
> changes seemed sane, but I could have botched something along the way.
>
> -T
>
> 5.3.21 - released 17-Jul-03
>
>          Ole Gjerde
>          - Check return code from vdeliver_mail in valias code and exit
>            appropriately on errors.  Previously, mail could be lost.
>
>          Cory Wright (and others)
>          - Fix missing "\" in multi-line #define in vmysql.h.
>
>          Maurice Snellen
>          - When logging POP3 logins, now includes system accounts.
>
>          Emris and Jeff Hedlund
>          - Ignore comments when processing .qmail files.
>
>          Moshe Jacobson
>          - Allow colons in cleartext passwords (vqpasswd() in
> vpopmail.c).
>
>          Jonas Thomsen
>          - Ignore final '.' in users/assign when running 'vconvert -c
> -m'.
>
>          Michael Bowe
>          - Remove debug printfs from vdelivermail on overquota bounces.
>
>          Jeff Hedlund
>          - Ignore comments when processing .qmail files.
>          - Process .qmail file when delivering to local (Maildir)
> catchall.
>          - vdelivermail now properly sets $EXT@$HOST and sets Deliver-To
>            header on local deliveries.
>
>          Tom Collins
>          - Fix usage formatting on vconvert.
>          - Support for MB/KB quota formats in vmoduser.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> _______________________________________________
> qmailadmin-devel mailing list
> qma...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qmailadmin-devel
>

[qmailadmin-devel] Updated vpopmail -- please review before public announcement

[Tom C. <to...@to...>]

<http://sourceforge.net/projects/vpopmail/>

There were a lot of patches that went into this release, and I have yet 
to set up a development server for vpopmail/qmailadmin testing with 
MySQL databases (although I'm very close to doing so).

Can some of you download and compile 5.3.21 on one of your 
development/test boxes to make sure it at least compiles?  All of the 
changes seemed sane, but I could have botched something along the way.

-T

5.3.21 - released 17-Jul-03

         Ole Gjerde
         - Check return code from vdeliver_mail in valias code and exit
           appropriately on errors.  Previously, mail could be lost.

         Cory Wright (and others)
         - Fix missing "\" in multi-line #define in vmysql.h.

         Maurice Snellen
         - When logging POP3 logins, now includes system accounts.

         Emris and Jeff Hedlund
         - Ignore comments when processing .qmail files.

         Moshe Jacobson
         - Allow colons in cleartext passwords (vqpasswd() in 
vpopmail.c).

         Jonas Thomsen
         - Ignore final '.' in users/assign when running 'vconvert -c 
-m'.

         Michael Bowe
         - Remove debug printfs from vdelivermail on overquota bounces.

         Jeff Hedlund
         - Ignore comments when processing .qmail files.
         - Process .qmail file when delivering to local (Maildir) 
catchall.
         - vdelivermail now properly sets $EXT@$HOST and sets Deliver-To
           header on local deliveries.

         Tom Collins
         - Fix usage formatting on vconvert.
         - Support for MB/KB quota formats in vmoduser.

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] alias/valias recap

[Jeff H. <jef...@ma...>]

Tom Collins wrote:
> On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 02:48  PM, Jeff Hedlund wrote:
> 
>> I don't know if it would matter.  If they didn't know about vcalias, 
>> then new aliases would be created with valias.  Edited aliases would 
>> be recreated anew with valias... so the conversion process could 
>> happen over time if they were unaware of vcalias.
> 
> 
> Note that in this case qmailadmin would need to delete the .qmail-alias 
> file after moving the alias into the valias table.

Exactly.

Jeff

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] alias/valias recap

[Tom C. <to...@to...>]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 02:48  PM, Jeff Hedlund wrote:
> I don't know if it would matter.  If they didn't know about vcalias, 
> then new aliases would be created with valias.  Edited aliases would 
> be recreated anew with valias... so the conversion process could 
> happen over time if they were unaware of vcalias.

Note that in this case qmailadmin would need to delete the .qmail-alias 
file after moving the alias into the valias table.

--
Tom Collins
to...@to...
http://sniffter.com/ - info on the Sniffter hand-held Network Tester

RE: [qmailadmin-devel] alias/valias recap

[Benjamin T. <bto...@so...>]

> That why I said not just if vpopmail is using a sql backend.  Compiling
> valias is a configuration option in vpopmail.  What Bill Shupp
> recommended in an earlier mail was to automatically detect whether
> vpopmail was compiled with valias support, so that a configuration
> directive is not needed.
>
> (and I suggested that there maybe be a configuration option to override
> that setting in the case that someone compiled vpopmail with valias
> support but did not want to use valias with qmailadmin).
>
Yes, I think we're on the same page.  There should be a configure
option/flag that allows the admin to override using valias.

> >>There's no reason to do that, if the person decides to start using
> >>valias instead of .qmail files, they can run the vcalias application.
> >>
> > Is it absolutely necessary to require a mass conversion?  This
> would require
> > a green admin to actually know about valias, vcalias, etc.
> Thus, it seems
> > to be me that it would be very beneficial to have QA
> auto-detect that .qmail
> > and valias co-exist and prompt the admin to convert from .qmail
> to valias.
> > That is, assuming that we think valias is the better way to go
> between the
> > two (which I'm thinking is true since mysql tends to hold data in RAM
> > whereas .qmail files require disk IO).
>
> I'm not following.  A mass conversion == all domains, or a mass
> conversion == all .qmail files in a domain to valias?
>
Oh, sorry, meant per domain.  It's very easy to script listing all domains
and then calling vcalias in a for/do loop, so I would never recommend
mass-converting all domains in a single call.  But that's just me.

> I don't know if it would matter.  If they didn't know about vcalias,
> then new aliases would be created with valias.  Edited aliases would be
> recreated anew with valias... so the conversion process could happen
> over time if they were unaware of vcalias.
>
Right, this is exactly what I'm suggesting, though I think the default
(perhaps with a configure option to disable the behavior) should educate the
admin about what's happening and why.  At least something along the lines of
"Your aliases and forwards are currently maintained in .qmail files.  Is it
ok that I upgrade you to valias format to improve performance?"  While the
GUI tools are great for making administration accessible to those not very
well trained or educated, we also have a responsibility to make admins aware
of what's going on, give them an opportunity to opt-out of behavior, and so
on.

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] alias/valias recap

[Jeff H. <jef...@ma...>]

Benjamin Tomhave wrote:
>>QA (when valias support is added) will read from both sources always.
>>As Bill Shupp mentioned earlier, there is no reason to have a configure
>>flag to turn valias on -- it can be automatically determined if vpopmail
>>was configured with valias support (not just if vpopmail is using a sql
>>backend).
>>
> QA should have read support for both, but it will also need to determine
> during the configure which it should use when creating new aliases.  It is
> quite possible that someone might be running with vmysql and yet is not
> using valiases, but instead .qmail files.  It is also, then, quite possible
> that that person would wish to continue using .qmail files instead of valias
> files.  Thus, a configure option will be necessary to override the default
> behaviour of using valias in those instances where an admin would prefer to
> continue using .qmail files.

That why I said not just if vpopmail is using a sql backend.  Compiling 
valias is a configuration option in vpopmail.  What Bill Shupp 
recommended in an earlier mail was to automatically detect whether 
vpopmail was compiled with valias support, so that a configuration 
directive is not needed.

(and I suggested that there maybe be a configuration option to override 
that setting in the case that someone compiled vpopmail with valias 
support but did not want to use valias with qmailadmin).

>>There's no reason to do that, if the person decides to start using
>>valias instead of .qmail files, they can run the vcalias application.
>>
> Is it absolutely necessary to require a mass conversion?  This would require
> a green admin to actually know about valias, vcalias, etc.  Thus, it seems
> to be me that it would be very beneficial to have QA auto-detect that .qmail
> and valias co-exist and prompt the admin to convert from .qmail to valias.
> That is, assuming that we think valias is the better way to go between the
> two (which I'm thinking is true since mysql tends to hold data in RAM
> whereas .qmail files require disk IO).

I'm not following.  A mass conversion == all domains, or a mass 
conversion == all .qmail files in a domain to valias?

I don't know if it would matter.  If they didn't know about vcalias, 
then new aliases would be created with valias.  Edited aliases would be 
recreated anew with valias... so the conversion process could happen 
over time if they were unaware of vcalias.

Jeff
--

   /\  /\              ..    ..    ..    jef...@ma...
  /  \/  \ a t r i x  .  .  .  .  .  .  .           (770) 794-7233
  s o f t w a r e  i n c  ..    ..    ..   http://www.matrixsi.com

RE: [qmailadmin-devel] alias/valias recap

[Benjamin T. <bto...@so...>]

> > -QA needs to be aware and provide support for both .qmail (cdb)
> and valias
> > (vmysql) configurations, probably by default.  It will probably
> be necessary
> > to have configure flag(s) to determine which behaviour should be default
> > (???), though I would imagine that if vpopmail is using a sql
> back end, then
> > valias should be the default.
>
> QA (when valias support is added) will read from both sources always.
> As Bill Shupp mentioned earlier, there is no reason to have a configure
> flag to turn valias on -- it can be automatically determined if vpopmail
> was configured with valias support (not just if vpopmail is using a sql
> backend).
>
QA should have read support for both, but it will also need to determine
during the configure which it should use when creating new aliases.  It is
quite possible that someone might be running with vmysql and yet is not
using valiases, but instead .qmail files.  It is also, then, quite possible
that that person would wish to continue using .qmail files instead of valias
files.  Thus, a configure option will be necessary to override the default
behaviour of using valias in those instances where an admin would prefer to
continue using .qmail files.

> > -My personal thought: if QA defaults to writing valias format, then it
> > should also auto-detect .qmail aliases and either automagically
> convert it
> > to valias, or at least prompt the admin to convert to the new format.
>
> There's no reason to do that, if the person decides to start using
> valias instead of .qmail files, they can run the vcalias application.
>
Is it absolutely necessary to require a mass conversion?  This would require
a green admin to actually know about valias, vcalias, etc.  Thus, it seems
to be me that it would be very beneficial to have QA auto-detect that .qmail
and valias co-exist and prompt the admin to convert from .qmail to valias.
That is, assuming that we think valias is the better way to go between the
two (which I'm thinking is true since mysql tends to hold data in RAM
whereas .qmail files require disk IO).

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] alias/valias recap

[Jeff H. <jef...@ma...>]

Benjamin Tomhave wrote:
> -Any use of /Maildir/, whether it be in .qmail or valias, will result in
> bypassing other .qmail directives, such as for .qmail-default or for .qmail
> user files.  This is a Bad Thing (tm) since it means messages would bypass
> spam filtering, etc.  Thus, the *best* way to do "aliases" is by doing
> everything as an &us...@do... forward, which then causes the message to
> be re-injected, and thus processed correctly.

Correct, which is why the current qmailadmin development version 
(>=1.0.21) writes aliases as &us...@do...

> -QA needs to be aware and provide support for both .qmail (cdb) and valias
> (vmysql) configurations, probably by default.  It will probably be necessary
> to have configure flag(s) to determine which behaviour should be default
> (???), though I would imagine that if vpopmail is using a sql back end, then
> valias should be the default.

QA (when valias support is added) will read from both sources always. 
As Bill Shupp mentioned earlier, there is no reason to have a configure 
flag to turn valias on -- it can be automatically determined if vpopmail 
was configured with valias support (not just if vpopmail is using a sql 
backend).

> -There is a tool, vcalias, that can convert from .qmail aliases to valias
> aliases.

Correct.

> -My personal thought: if QA defaults to writing valias format, then it
> should also auto-detect .qmail aliases and either automagically convert it
> to valias, or at least prompt the admin to convert to the new format.

There's no reason to do that, if the person decides to start using 
valias instead of .qmail files, they can run the vcalias application.

Jeff
-- 

   /\  /\              ..    ..    ..    jef...@ma...
  /  \/  \ a t r i x  .  .  .  .  .  .  .           (770) 794-7233
  s o f t w a r e  i n c  ..    ..    ..   http://www.matrixsi.com

[qmailadmin-devel] alias/valias recap

[Benjamin T. <bto...@so...>]

Since I got behind, here's what I think is the recap of the conversation,
for neatness and clarity, if not for my own sanity:

-Any use of /Maildir/, whether it be in .qmail or valias, will result in
bypassing other .qmail directives, such as for .qmail-default or for .qmail
user files.  This is a Bad Thing (tm) since it means messages would bypass
spam filtering, etc.  Thus, the *best* way to do "aliases" is by doing
everything as an &us...@do... forward, which then causes the message to
be re-injected, and thus processed correctly.
-QA needs to be aware and provide support for both .qmail (cdb) and valias
(vmysql) configurations, probably by default.  It will probably be necessary
to have configure flag(s) to determine which behaviour should be default
(???), though I would imagine that if vpopmail is using a sql back end, then
valias should be the default.
-There is a tool, vcalias, that can convert from .qmail aliases to valias
aliases.
-My personal thought: if QA defaults to writing valias format, then it
should also auto-detect .qmail aliases and either automagically convert it
to valias, or at least prompt the admin to convert to the new format.

If I missed any of the high points, please add on.  If there's consensus, it
should be straight-forward adding these to a future todo list, such as for
QA 1.1.

cheers,

-ben

---
Benjamin Tomhave, CISSP
Senior Systems Engineer
bto...@so...
Sofast Communications      www.sofast.net

RE: [qmailadmin-devel] valias support

[Benjamin T. <bto...@so...>]

> Well, the vpopmail library should determine which kind to use, rather
> than a configuration directive.  However, for legacy support, or mixed
> environment support, I think that qmailadmin should default to valiases
> if the library is compiled with valias support, but also be aware of
> .qmail files if they exist.
>
Should qmailadmin automagically convert .qmail alias/forwards into the
valias format, then, too?

RE: [qmailadmin-devel] Show stoppers to making a stable release

[Benjamin T. <bto...@so...>]

> So, for users who don't have valiases, they'll take the performance hit
> of having a lot of .qmail-user files, in addition to having messages
> re-queued for delivery.
>
> If we add valias support to qmailadmin, the valias can continue to
> refer to the Maildir (or even just the pop/imap username?) for delivery
> (and vdelivermail can be smart enough to process the .qmail file for
> that user).
>
I don't buy it.  I'm doing my filtering in .qmail-default, not in
.qmail-user files, and .qmail based aliases resulted in bypassing the scans.
How is this any different?

[qmailadmin-devel] alias2forward.pl, other notes on upgrading

[Tom C. <to...@to...>]

I have 'alias2forward.pl' working (80 lines), and just need to add a 
few prompts to it (prompt for qmail path if it isn't /var/qmail, prompt 
for whether it should do a dry-run and show what will happen, or just 
go for it).

It turned out to be a little tricky, because it has to work with hashed 
domains (e.g., ~vpopmail/domains/0/test.com).  It ignores alias domains 
where it's already processed the "real domain".  I also included code 
to ignore symbolic links (ezmlm files).  It could probably be done with 
a shell script, but I lack the mad shell skillz to do it.

It only rewrites the file if it made changes.  It only changes lines 
that start with /, and end with /Maildir (with an optional trailing /). 
  I ran into some files on my system (ezmlm list owner aliases) that 
didn't have the trailing slash, and worried that there might be some 
other instances where it's missing, so I made it optional.

Since it overwrites the old file with the new information (again, only 
if there were changes), the permissions remain unchanged.  I'll put it 
online, or post it to the list for others to test on development 
servers, and it will be included with the 1.0.25 release, along with 
notes in the CHANGELOG, README and UPGRADING files.

If anyone wants to take the plunge and start writing a document that 
will help vpopmail 5.2.1/qmailadmin 1.0.6 admins upgrade to the 
vpopmail 5.4/qmailadmin 1.2 release, I'd appreciate it.  You would have 
to review the Changelogs, summarize architectural changes that would 
affect them, and introduce some of the new features (like valiases, the 
new vlimits code, current state of SpamAssassin integration, new 
configure options, etc.).

--
Tom Collins
to...@to...
http://sniffter.com/ - info on the Sniffter hand-held Network Tester

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] vpopmail on SourceForge

[Bill S. <hos...@sh...>]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 12:25  PM, Jeff Hedlund wrote:

> Tom Collins wrote:
>> I have vpopmail set up on SourceForge now.  
>> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/vpopmail/>
>
> Tom,
>
> Should we create a vpopmail-devel list as well?

Yes!

Bill

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] vpopmail on SourceForge

[Jeff H. <jef...@ma...>]

Tom Collins wrote:
> I have vpopmail set up on SourceForge now.  
> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/vpopmail/>

Tom,

Should we create a vpopmail-devel list as well?

Jeff
-- 

   /\  /\              ..    ..    ..    jef...@ma...
  /  \/  \ a t r i x  .  .  .  .  .  .  .           (770) 794-7233
  s o f t w a r e  i n c  ..    ..    ..   http://www.matrixsi.com

[qmailadmin-devel] vpopmail on SourceForge

[Tom C. <to...@to...>]

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 10:27  PM, Tom Collins wrote:
> Ken has dropped the ball on the vpopmail 5.3.21 release, and it may 
> soon end up on SourceForge as well.

I have vpopmail set up on SourceForge now.  
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/vpopmail/>

I'll be working on the 5.3.21 release (and a 5.2.2 release that 
corrects an error in vmysql.h) this afternoon.

--
Tom Collins
to...@to...
http://sniffter.com/ - info on the Sniffter hand-held Network Tester

Re: [qmailadmin-devel] Show stoppers to making a stable release

[Bill S. <hos...@sh...>]

On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 11:10  AM, Jeff Hedlund wrote:

> Bill Shupp wrote:
>>> In the current state of vpopmail, emails would still be required in 
>>> the valias, not /Maildir/'s or we get the same problem.
>> I thought there was already a patch for this?  Aren't we talking 
>> about vdelivermail's inability to check for a .qmail file in the 
>> user's directory when the Maildir path goes all the way to /Maildir/?
>
> As far as I know, there is not a patch for this.  There is a patch to 
> read the user's .qmail file if a /Maildir/ is specified in the 
> catchall.

Ah, that's what I was thinking of.

Bill