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Re: [Pyobjc-dev] objc classes

[Helge H. <hel...@op...>]

Ups, forgot a section ...

On May 30, 2004, at 2:44, b.bum wrote:
> PyObjC could certainly do the same and the source for +poseAsClass: is 
> available in the darwin repository.

Does that imply that +poseAsClass: is not thread safe? Ronald said that 
the modifications are not supported for thread safety, probably so that 
NSClassFromString etc do not require locks.
I didn't find a hint on that in the Apple class docs.

> If the GNUStep runtime supports posing, it likely does something 
> similar.

The GNU runtime (not really related to GNUstep) supports posing.

Greets,
   Helge
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Re: [Pyobjc-dev] objc classes

[Helge H. <hel...@op...>]

On May 30, 2004, at 2:44, b.bum wrote:
>> Exactly. I'm just thinking about development time where one has typed 
>> in a scripted class in some editor and then rethinks about the 
>> superclass.
>
> WebScript did this in WebObjects and it rocked.  You could change the 
> implementation and reload a web page to see the new behavior.

I also thought about WebScript.

Do you remember whether WebScript actually allowed redefining the 
superclass? The common case was to use a WebScript without any class 
definition at all (and WOComponent was used as "the" superclass), but 
the later versions also allowed @interface, @implementation and 
therefore a specification of it, was rerooting supported here?
(redefining the behaviour of a class itself should be pretty easy, as 
it is just redefining the sel=>func map)

regards,
   Helge
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Re: [Pyobjc-dev] objc classes

[b.bum <bb...@ma...>]

On May 29, 2004, at 6:59 AM, Helge Hess wrote:
> On May 29, 2004, at 7:35, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>>>> Further, would it possible to change the class hierarchy of an 
>>>> existing class? So that MyFormatter initially inherits from say 
>>>> NSFormatter and after reloading a Python module inherits from 
>>>> NSDateFormatter. Would that be possible with the Apple ObjC runtime 
>>>> or is this already possible with PyObjC?
>> It is not possible with PyObjC. It might be possible with the Apple 
>> ObjC runtime, but would be pretty hard using the GNUstep runtime 
>> (that one definitely maintains a list of subclasses).
>
> Well, the question is what the list of subclasses is actually used 
> for. I'm mostly concerned about "live editing" during development, ala 
> fix&continue, where the superclass changes (so hacks are great as well 
> ;-). If some subclass reflection doesn't work, it should be acceptable 
> I guess.
>
> Hm, I just wonder whether posing is just that or helps here?

The ObjC runtime does this as a part of +poseAsClass:   The original 
class is renamed to %Class and is made to be a super of the posing 
class (which is renamed to the original name of the Class).   KVO 
effectively does something similar.

PyObjC could certainly do the same and the source for +poseAsClass: is 
available in the darwin repository.

If the GNUStep runtime supports posing, it likely does something 
similar.

So, yes, you could change the class hierarchy at runtime as described 
and this could be used to do re-loading of classes while not impacting 
existing instances.   Since PyObjC internalizes instance variables, you 
could even change the instance variables across loads-- something that 
cannot be done without breaking binary compatibility in ObjC.

>> This limitation may be liften in a future version of PyObjC. 
>> Reloading can be useful during development.
>
> Exactly. I'm just thinking about development time where one has typed 
> in a scripted class in some editor and then rethinks about the 
> superclass.

WebScript did this in WebObjects and it rocked.  You could change the 
implementation and reload a web page to see the new behavior.

b.bum

[Pyobjc-dev] how are u?

[Ashlyn G. <mwv...@en...>]

arrived worth hear sake talking slow legs scene neither procedure usual building 
grandfather wanted shook knew yellow or shut itself stepped every forced finally favour seemed 

Re: [Pyobjc-dev] objc classes

[Helge H. <hel...@op...>]

On May 29, 2004, at 7:35, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>>> Further, would it possible to change the class hierarchy of an 
>>> existing class? So that MyFormatter initially inherits from say 
>>> NSFormatter and after reloading a Python module inherits from 
>>> NSDateFormatter. Would that be possible with the Apple ObjC runtime 
>>> or is this already possible with PyObjC?
> It is not possible with PyObjC. It might be possible with the Apple 
> ObjC runtime, but would be pretty hard using the GNUstep runtime (that 
> one definitely maintains a list of subclasses).

Well, the question is what the list of subclasses is actually used for. 
I'm mostly concerned about "live editing" during development, ala 
fix&continue, where the superclass changes (so hacks are great as well 
;-). If some subclass reflection doesn't work, it should be acceptable 
I guess.

Hm, I just wonder whether posing is just that or helps here?

> This limitation may be liften in a future version of PyObjC. Reloading 
> can be useful during development.

Exactly. I'm just thinking about development time where one has typed 
in a scripted class in some editor and then rethinks about the 
superclass.

Greets,
   Helge
-- 
http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/
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[Pyobjc-dev] Re:

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Re: [Pyobjc-dev] objc classes

[Ronald O. <ron...@ma...>]

On 28-mei-04, at 23:47, Bob Ippolito wrote:

>
> On May 28, 2004, at 4:57 PM, Helge Hess wrote:
>
>> just found that in class-builder.h:
>> ---snip---
>>  *    Note that it is not possible to remove classes from the 
>> Objective-C
>>  *    runtime (at least with the Apple runtime, not sure about the 
>> GNU runtime).
>> ---snap---
>>
>> I would love to understand what exactly is meant here and how it 
>> restricts functionality. Does that only mean that the class structure 
>> may not be deallocated and cannot be unlinked?
>
> Yes and yes.

Exactly, the reason for this is efficient thread-safety.
>
>> Is it possible to change the mapping of a class name in the name 
>> registry (name to structure) mapping? So that the old class object is 
>> still available, but the new class object will be used for new 
>> instances?
>
> No and No.
>
>> Further, would it possible to change the class hierarchy of an 
>> existing class? So that MyFormatter initially inherits from say 
>> NSFormatter and after reloading a Python module inherits from 
>> NSDateFormatter. Would that be possible with the Apple ObjC runtime 
>> or is this already possible with PyObjC?

It is not possible with PyObjC. It might be possible with the Apple 
ObjC runtime, but would be pretty hard using the GNUstep runtime (that 
one definitely maintains a list of subclasses).

>
> No, no, and no.  In fact, you can't even reload the python module.  
> The class can be created once and only once.
>
> >>> from Foundation import *
> >>> class Foo(NSObject):
> ...   pass
> ...
> >>> class Foo(NSObject):
> ...   pass
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> objc.error: Class already exists in Objective-C runtime

This limitation may be liften in a future version of PyObjC. Reloading 
can be useful during development.
>
> Some of the things you ask about are possible though awful hacks, but 
> I'm not going to encourage that :)
>
> -bob
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
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[Pyobjc-dev] Fri, 28 May 2004 18:13:38 -0600

[Christa J. <VM...@id...>]

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[delnaz <ti...@se...>]

<html>
<body bgcolor="#F7E6B7">
<table width="100%">
  <tr> 
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</table>
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1. по Москве и Московской области<br>
2. по маршруту Москва – Санкт-Петербург – Москва<br>
3. по городам Российской Федерации<br>
<br>
</strong> </font>
<table width="100%">
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Тарифы на наши 
        услуги</strong></font></div></td>
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  <tr> 
    <td><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>1. Москва и Московская область </strong></font></td>
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</table>
<table width="63%" border="1" align="center" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#000000">
  <tr align="center" valign="top"> 
    <td width="7%" rowspan="2"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Тип 
      машины</strong></font></td>
    <td width="26%"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Москва</strong></font></td>
    <td width="11%"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Московская 
      область</strong></font></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman">Стоимость 1 
        часа работы, руб.</font></div></td>
    <td width="11%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman">Стоимость 
        руб/ км</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr align="center" valign="top"> 
    <td><font face="Times New Roman">ГАЗель</font></td>
    <td><font face="Times New Roman">190</font></td>
    <td><font face="Times New Roman">8,0</font></td>
  </tr>
  <tr align="center" valign="top"> 
    <td><font face="Times New Roman">МАЗ</font></td>
    <td><font face="Times New Roman">310</font></td>
    <td><font face="Times New Roman">11,0</font></td>
  </tr>
  <tr align="center" valign="top"> 
    <td><font face="Times New Roman">МАЗ </font></td>
    <td><font face="Times New Roman">330 </font></td>
    <td><font face="Times New Roman">13,0 </font></td>
  </tr>
</table>
<font face="Times New Roman"><br>
<p><strong>-Стоимость доставки груза в Московскую область складывается из стоимости 
  доставки по Москве и Московской области (километраж рассчитывается в обе стороны).<br>
  <br>
  2. Москва – Санкт-Петербург - Москва</strong></p>
</font>
<table width="68%" border="1" align="center" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#000000">
  <tr> 
    <td width="31%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Общий 
        вес отправки, кг</strong></font></div></td>
    <td width="35%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>«От 
        склада до склада», руб.</strong></font></div></td>
    <td width="34%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>«От 
        двери до двери», руб.</strong></font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">50-100</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">7,5</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">10,5</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">101-200</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">7,3</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">10,3</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">201-350</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">7,0</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">10,0</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">351-500</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">6,8</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">9,8</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">501-1000</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">6,5</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">8,0</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1001-1500</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">6,0</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">7,5</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1501-2000</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">5,5</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">7,0</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman"> 2001-2500</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">5,0</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">6,5</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2501-3000</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">4,7</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">6</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3001-3500</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">4,4</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">5,5</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3501-4000 </font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">4,1</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">Свыше 4001</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3,9</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">4,6</font></div></td>
  </tr>
</table>

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<p><font face="Times New Roman"><strong><br>
  3. По городам Российской Федерации «От двери до двери» </strong></font></p>
<table width="100%" border="1" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#000000">
  <tr> 
    <td width="17%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Общий 
        вес отправки, кг</strong></font></div></td>
    <td width="12%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Владимир</strong></font></div></td>
    <td width="10%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Иваново</strong></font></div></td>
    <td width="21%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Калуга</strong></font></div></td>
    <td width="8%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Рязань</strong></font></div></td>
    <td width="13%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Тверь</strong></font></div></td>
    <td width="7%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Тула</strong></font></div></td>
    <td width="12%"><div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Ярославль</strong></font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td colspan="8"> <div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Общая 
        стоимость перевозки, руб.</strong></font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">50-100</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1700</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2300</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1600</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1600</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1700</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1700</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2150</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">101-300</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1900</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2500</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1800</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1800</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1900</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1900</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2350</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">301-500</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2250</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2850</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2150</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2150</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2250</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2250</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2700</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">501-800</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2550</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3530</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2390</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2430</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2570</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2690</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3250</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td colspan="8"> <div align="center"><font size="+1" face="Times New Roman"><strong>Тариф 
        за килограмм, руб.</strong></font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">801-1000</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3,0</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">4,2</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,7</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,6</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,7</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3,0</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3,8</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1001-1200</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,8</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">4,0</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,5</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,4</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,5</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,8</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3,6</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">1201-2000</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,6</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3,8</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,3</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,2</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,3</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">2,6</font></div></td>
    <td><div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman">3,4</font></div></td>
  </tr>
  <tr> 
    <td colspan="8"> 
      <div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman"><strong><font size="+2">Cвыше 
        2500 кг предоставляются скидки</font></strong></font></div></td>
  </tr>
</table>
<p> <font face="Times New Roman"><strong>-Доставка груза в течение 1-2 рабочих 
  дней после приема груза у отправителя.<br>
  <br>
  <br>
  </strong>А так же мы осуществляем грузоперевозки 
  по городам: Архангельск, Астрахань, Барнаул, Белгород, Владивосток, Волгоград, 
  Воронеж, Екатеринбург, Ижевск, Иркутск, Казань, Кемерово, Краснодар, Красноярск, 
  Курган, Магнитогорск, Мурманск, Набережные, Челны, Нижневартовск, Нижний Новгород, 
  Новосибирск, Омск, Оренбург, Пенза, Пермь, Ростов-на-Дону, Самара, Саратов, 
  Сочи, Ставрополь, Сургут, Тольятти, Томск, Тюмень, Ульяновск, Уфа, Хабаровск, 
  Челябинск, Чита. </font></p>
<p> <font face="Times New Roman"><br>
  <strong>- Тарифы, сроки доставки и другую интересующую Вас информацию о перевозке 
  грузов Вы можете узнать по телефону: 921-90-67</strong> – Ильина 
  Анна.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>4.</strong> Перевозка груза 
  осуществляется так же между городами Российской Федерации, 
  указанными в таблицах в пункте 3. <br>
  Тариф складывается из: тарифа на перевозку груза из города грузоотправителя 
  до Москвы плюс тариф на перевозку груза из Москвы до города грузополучателя.<br>
  </font><br><font face="Times New Roman">С уважением,<br>
  <strong>Маркетолог</strong> Ильина Анна<br>
  Телефон: 921-90-67 факс: 924-03-81<br>
  </font></p>
</body>
</html>

Re: [Pyobjc-dev] objc classes

[Bob I. <bo...@re...>]

On May 28, 2004, at 4:57 PM, Helge Hess wrote:

> just found that in class-builder.h:
> ---snip---
>  *    Note that it is not possible to remove classes from the 
> Objective-C
>  *    runtime (at least with the Apple runtime, not sure about the GNU 
> runtime).
> ---snap---
>
> I would love to understand what exactly is meant here and how it 
> restricts functionality. Does that only mean that the class structure 
> may not be deallocated and cannot be unlinked?

Yes and yes.

> Is it possible to change the mapping of a class name in the name 
> registry (name to structure) mapping? So that the old class object is 
> still available, but the new class object will be used for new 
> instances?

No and No.

> Further, would it possible to change the class hierarchy of an 
> existing class? So that MyFormatter initially inherits from say 
> NSFormatter and after reloading a Python module inherits from 
> NSDateFormatter. Would that be possible with the Apple ObjC runtime or 
> is this already possible with PyObjC?

No, no, and no.  In fact, you can't even reload the python module.  The 
class can be created once and only once.

 >>> from Foundation import *
 >>> class Foo(NSObject):
...   pass
...
 >>> class Foo(NSObject):
...   pass
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
objc.error: Class already exists in Objective-C runtime

Some of the things you ask about are possible though awful hacks, but 
I'm not going to encourage that :)

-bob

[Pyobjc-dev] objc classes

[Helge H. <hel...@op...>]

Hi there,

just found that in class-builder.h:
---snip---
  *    Note that it is not possible to remove classes from the 
Objective-C
  *    runtime (at least with the Apple runtime, not sure about the GNU 
runtime).
---snap---

I would love to understand what exactly is meant here and how it 
restricts functionality. Does that only mean that the class structure 
may not be deallocated and cannot be unlinked?

Is it possible to change the mapping of a class name in the name 
registry (name to structure) mapping? So that the old class object is 
still available, but the new class object will be used for new 
instances?

Further, would it possible to change the class hierarchy of an existing 
class? So that MyFormatter initially inherits from say NSFormatter and 
after reloading a Python module inherits from NSDateFormatter. Would 
that be possible with the Apple ObjC runtime or is this already 
possible with PyObjC?

Thanks a lot,
   Helge
-- 
http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/
OpenGroupware.org

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Re: [Pyobjc-dev] iPhoto export plugin...

[Ronald O. <ron...@ma...>]

On 24-mei-04, at 22:37, Jonathan LaCour wrote:

> I am interested in writing a plugin for iPhoto using PyObjC to 
> "export" my images.  I will be making it general purpose enough to 
> upload to a variety of locations through python extensions.  
> Initially, I am looking to have it export entire albums to my blog, 
> which runs on the great TextPattern content management system 
> (www.textpattern.com).
>
> I found this article about the necessary steps to write an iPhoto 
> export plugin in Objective-C:
>
> 		http://www.stone.com/The_Cocoa_Files/Writing_PlugIns.html
>
> I have a decent, but limited, understanding of Objective-C, but a very 
> healthy understanding of Python.  After reading this article, my 
> question is: would it be possible for me to implement such a plugin on 
> top of PyObjC without having to write any Objective-C?
>
> Any guidance would be appreciated.

In theory this should be possible, see Examples/EnvironmentPrefs for an 
example of a System Preferences plugin. I'm not entirely sure this will 
work because creating Interface Builder palettes does not work 
(yet...), but that's probably because IB does some low-level stuff 
itself.

What I'd do:
- Create iphoto_protocols.py, containing a definition of an 
objc.informal_protocol for ExportPluginProtocol. See 
Lib/Foundation/protocols.py for an example, or create an objective-C 
protocol definition and use Scripts/gen_protocols.
- Write a translation into python of the ObjC code on the webpage you 
referenced
- adapt buildplugin.py from the EnvironmentPrefs example
- build the plugin and try if it works.

Ronald
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[Pyobjc-dev] iPhoto export plugin...

[Jonathan L. <pan...@sk...>]

I am interested in writing a plugin for iPhoto using PyObjC to "export" 
my images.  I will be making it general purpose enough to upload to a 
variety of locations through python extensions.  Initially, I am 
looking to have it export entire albums to my blog, which runs on the 
great TextPattern content management system (www.textpattern.com).

I found this article about the necessary steps to write an iPhoto 
export plugin in Objective-C:

		http://www.stone.com/The_Cocoa_Files/Writing_PlugIns.html

I have a decent, but limited, understanding of Objective-C, but a very 
healthy understanding of Python.  After reading this article, my 
question is: would it be possible for me to implement such a plugin on 
top of PyObjC without having to write any Objective-C?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

  - Jonathan

Re: [Pyobjc-dev] Is this real?

[b.bum <bb...@ma...>]

Calling from ObjC -> Python works fine, it is the only way that we can 
build full featured Cocoa applications entirely in Python.

Messaging new Python classes from ObjC is a slight challenge just 
because you don't have the class around when you compile the ObjC.  
This is analogous to writing code that messages a class that is in a 
Bundle -- there is a total chicken and egg problem (and a linker 
problem too, if you aren't careful).   It isn't hard, just need to get 
it right.

- use the embedded-interpreter-main in your app to embed and initialize 
the python interpreter and start up PyObjC

- nothing else in your app has to be modified (or pythonified)

- add the appropriate import statements to __main__.py to make sure 
your classes are defined

- in __main__.py, instantiate your python stuff and pass the python 
classes into ObjC

	NSApp().delegate().setThePythonCalculator_(new MyPythonClass())

	... where your application's delegate implements 
-(void)setThePythonCalculator: (id)someObject and -retains someObject 
for as long as it needs (likely in an instance variable

- message someObject as you would almost normally:

	- you can likely only pass objects into the Python side;  NSString, 
NSNumber, arrays, etc...   This is similar to KeyValueCoding's internal 
behavior.

	- you will likely need to declare the python side methods somewhere in 
a header to avoid compiler warnings.   This isn't a big deal, just 
define a PythonClass like this:

@interface PythonClass:NSObject
... methods from python go here
@end
@implementation
... stub implementations here;  don't do anything
@end

	Then, you can just cast someObject to an instance of PythonClass and 
your compiler warnings will go away.

	- the python API will need to be declared with '_'s for each argument 
-- i.e. the python API will need to translate to an ObjC API via the 
same '_' -> ':' -> '_" rules as the rest of PyObjC.

There will be a couple of issues in going this route because pure 
python objects don't behave entirely like NSObject subclasses.  This 
isn't a limit of the bridge, but fallout from having multiple root 
classes.  The NSObject root classes offers a bunch of behavior that 
various parts of the AppKit and Foundation rely upon -- pure python 
objects don't offer that.

Not a big deal, if you can just declare your python side classes as 
subclasses of NSObject:

class Foo(NSObject):
	pass

If you have a pure python class that you want to bridge, you may have 
some success doing this:

 >>> class Foo:
...   def bar(self):print "baz"
...
 >>> class Bar(NSObject, Foo):
...   pass
...
 >>> Bar
<objective-c class Bar at 0x366170>
 >>> Foo
<class __main__.Foo at 0x2132f00>
 >>> x = Bar.new()
 >>> x
<Bar: 0x3dbd10>
 >>> x.bar()
baz
 >>> x.description()
u'<Bar: 0x3dbd10>'
 >>>

[Pyobjc-dev] CVS is closed for development

[Ronald O. <ron...@ma...>]

The problems on 10.2 are still there, but as nobody seems to run into 
it in real programs I don't think it is useful to postpone the 1.1 
release any further. Another reason is that I don't think I'll find the 
problem any time soon, I'm completely blind w.r.t. problems in the 
codebase right now.

I'm going to do the release sometime this week please don't check in 
new features until then.

After the release we'll move to a subversion repository at red-bean.com 
(thanks to Bill for setting that up).

Ronald
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Re: [Pyobjc-dev] Is this real?

[Ronald O. <ron...@ma...>]

On 23-mei-04, at 9:35, Bob Ippolito wrote:

>
> On May 23, 2004, at 2:22 AM, James Stroud wrote:
>
>> Great. I've downloaded pyobjc latest. Installed. Started a python 
>> application in xcode. It runs. I've read many tutorials and still 
>> have no idea what is going on. I just want to use my python classes 
>> in cocoa. Is this possible?
>
> By "PyObjC latest" do you mean the last release, or CVS?  CVS has a 
> large number of fixes and some new features.. we're going to have 
> another release as soon as we iron out some Jaguar incompatibilities, 
> and perhaps make some GNUStep related fixes.

W.r.t. the next release: the only thing that's holding that up are some 
Jaguar issues. I have checked in some GNUstep fixes, but that was 
mostly to be able to use valgrind on PyObjC.

Ronald
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Re: [Pyobjc-dev] Is this real?

[Ronald O. <ron...@ma...>]

On 23-mei-04, at 9:35, Bob Ippolito wrote:
>> Where should I start in proving I've RTFM? How about this:
>>
>> % cp -R src/PythonGlue.* simpleComboBoxPlus
>>
>> Where is "src"? Search on google for "PythonGlue.h" yields no clue as 
>> to its contents. Search on my hard drive yields no result. I find the 
>> whole of pyobjc documentation this confusing. Not criticizing, I know 
>> its a lot of work and few people. I just wasn't born knowing this 
>> stuff.
>
> [crack:~/src/pyobjc] bob% find . -name "PythonGlue.*"
> ./Doc/tutorial_embed/src/PythonGlue.h
> ./Doc/tutorial_embed/src/PythonGlue.m
> ./Doc/tutorial_embed/src/PythonGlue.py
>
> That's from CVS, I have no idea what the "pyobjc latest" you installed 
> contains or where you looked.

Those should be in the release as wel (both 1.0 and 1.1b)

>
>> What do I do to get my ObjC classes to see my python classes or my 
>> python classes to see MY ObjC classes (former better, but either 
>> good)?
>>
>> Shouldn't it be (almost) as simple as:
>>
>>    #include "somefile"
>
> I can't imagine it will be that simple any time soon, it would be hard 
> to generate Objective C header files from arbitrary Python source 
> code.

and generating the header files is the easy part :-)

>
>> or
>>
>>    import somemodule
>
> Using ObjC classes from Python is pretty easy.. either create a module 
> and use objc.loadBundle(...), or if you just need a reference to a 
> class that is already linked in then you can do objc.lookUpClass(...). 
>  Both are used all over the place in PyObjC's source code, though I 
> did change the semantics of loadBundle slightly today.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm pretty busy and don't have time to write up any 
> examples or go through the documentation and fix things.. so I hope 
> this helped.
>
> -bob
>
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Re: [Pyobjc-dev] Is this real?

[Bob I. <bo...@re...>]

On May 23, 2004, at 2:22 AM, James Stroud wrote:

> Great. I've downloaded pyobjc latest. Installed. Started a python 
> application in xcode. It runs. I've read many tutorials and still have 
> no idea what is going on. I just want to use my python classes in 
> cocoa. Is this possible?

By "PyObjC latest" do you mean the last release, or CVS?  CVS has a 
large number of fixes and some new features.. we're going to have 
another release as soon as we iron out some Jaguar incompatibilities, 
and perhaps make some GNUStep related fixes.

It may be the case that the tutorial is out of date, I don't really 
have time to run through it though.  Jack or Ronald would probably be 
more helpful, I only have experience using ObjC from Python, not vice 
versa.

> Where should I start in proving I've RTFM? How about this:
>
> % cp -R src/PythonGlue.* simpleComboBoxPlus
>
> Where is "src"? Search on google for "PythonGlue.h" yields no clue as 
> to its contents. Search on my hard drive yields no result. I find the 
> whole of pyobjc documentation this confusing. Not criticizing, I know 
> its a lot of work and few people. I just wasn't born knowing this 
> stuff.

[crack:~/src/pyobjc] bob% find . -name "PythonGlue.*"
./Doc/tutorial_embed/src/PythonGlue.h
./Doc/tutorial_embed/src/PythonGlue.m
./Doc/tutorial_embed/src/PythonGlue.py

That's from CVS, I have no idea what the "pyobjc latest" you installed 
contains or where you looked.

> What do I do to get my ObjC classes to see my python classes or my 
> python classes to see MY ObjC classes (former better, but either 
> good)?
>
> Shouldn't it be (almost) as simple as:
>
>    #include "somefile"

I can't imagine it will be that simple any time soon, it would be hard 
to generate Objective C header files from arbitrary Python source code.

> or
>
>    import somemodule

Using ObjC classes from Python is pretty easy.. either create a module 
and use objc.loadBundle(...), or if you just need a reference to a 
class that is already linked in then you can do objc.lookUpClass(...).  
Both are used all over the place in PyObjC's source code, though I did 
change the semantics of loadBundle slightly today.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty busy and don't have time to write up any 
examples or go through the documentation and fix things.. so I hope 
this helped.

-bob

[Pyobjc-dev] Is this real?

[James S. <Jam...@Co...>]

Great. I've downloaded pyobjc latest. Installed. Started a python 
application in xcode. It runs. I've read many tutorials and still have 
no idea what is going on. I just want to use my python classes in 
cocoa. Is this possible?

Where should I start in proving I've RTFM? How about this:

% cp -R src/PythonGlue.* simpleComboBoxPlus

Where is "src"? Search on google for "PythonGlue.h" yields no clue as 
to its contents. Search on my hard drive yields no result. I find the 
whole of pyobjc documentation this confusing. Not criticizing, I know 
its a lot of work and few people. I just wasn't born knowing this 
stuff.

What do I do to get my ObjC classes to see my python classes or my 
python classes to see MY ObjC classes (former better, but either good)?

Shouldn't it be (almost) as simple as:

    #include "somefile"

or

    import somemodule

Example code would be very very very helpful.

James

---------------------------------------------------------
James Stroud
Department of Chemistry
University of Colorado
Boulder, CO  80309-0215, USA

tel:  303-492-4503
www:  http://JamesStroud.com/
--------------------------------------------------------

[Pyobjc-dev] =?windows-1251?B?yOrw4CE=?=

[jorean <ja...@t-...>]

<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFCC">
<div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+2">Предлагаем свежую икру красную и черную с доставкой по 
  городу <br>
  </font></div>
<table width="74%" border="1" align="center" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#000000">
  <tr valign="baseline"> 
    <td width="45%" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman"><strong> <br>
      Наименование </strong><br>
      <br></font></td>
    <td width="30%"> 
      <div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman"><strong><br>
        Фасовка <br>
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      <div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman"><strong><br>
        Цена <br>
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    <td width="11%"> 
      <div align="center"><font face="Times New Roman"><strong><br>
        Доставка<br>
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  </tr>
  <tr valign="top"> 
    <td><font face="Times New Roman">Икра севрюжья зернистая 
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</table>
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