Re: [Pyobjc-dev] WebObjects?

[Zachery B. <zb...@ur...>]

On Friday, Jan 24, 2003, at 11:13 US/Eastern, bb...@ma... wrote:

> On Friday, Jan 24, 2003, at 05:14 US/Eastern, Just van Rossum 
> responded:
>> And by that time you're probably much better off using Zope, no?
>
> Not really.   While Zope is a wonderful achievement, it is very 
> 'closed' in nature.   It is hard to get into and, once in, it is hard 
> to get back out!   Zope is extremely complex and "just different".   
> Is it an app server?  A content manager?   What?

It's a dessert topping _and_ a floor wax!

> Maybe it is just me, but I have tried to dive into Zope several times 
> now and have been stymied every time by the vast complexity of the 
> system.  Sure, it may be "simple" to do a "Hello, World!" app, but the 
> sheer complexity of machinery behind is rather daunting.

Heh. I find these kinds of comparisons funny. I feel the same way about 
Objective C. There's a big step in my mind from CurrencyConverter to, 
oh, say, OmniWeb.

It's just a matter of knowing the terrain. Once you've got that, the 
complexity sort of bleeds off into background noise, and you can 
concentrate on the core behavior of your app.

> Admittedly, I don't know enough about Zope to have an expert opinion, 
> but I do feel the above reaction-- coming from someone with many years 
> of experience in the Web related industry-- has some validity in that 
> I know I'm not the only one that shares that opinion.

Perhaps. I dunno. Maybe it's the Kool-Aid they serve here, but I find 
the whole thing much more liberating than web technologies I was 
relegated to using before. PHP and Perl are really burdensome tools 
compared to the flexibility I get out of Zope/Python.

Zac