plib-users

[Plib-users] Fw: Re: GLUT or SDL

[Dave M. <dp...@ef...>]

Andreas, author of glTron, replied to my GLUT or SDL question.
I thought I would share his reply.

better fullscreen support and mainloop control are nice so i'll
go the SDL route for now.  Maybe i'll support both like he did.

>> Hi, I'm just getting started on my own project and for window support
>> I need to choose between GLUT and SDL.
>> 
>> Since you recently made the same choice for glTron would
>> you mind sharing any reflections you have on that choice
>> or the reasons why you made the choice?
>
>Various reasons:
>
>1) Better fullscreen support
>2) Glut isn't actively developed 
>3) Glut isn't free (as in speech)
>
>FreeGlut (freeglut.sourceforge.net) might change that, but not in the
>near future, I fear
>
>4) Better fullscreen support
>5) SDL supports all my target platforms (linux, win32, mac, beos).
>6) SDL_mixer is great!
>7) I can keep the mainloop
>8) There are other nifty SDL add-on libs
>
>I still support glut though. Just run ./system_glut and recompile.
>
>- Andreas
>-- 
>Probably one of the smallest 3D-Games in the world: http://www.gltron.org
>More than 60'000 Downloads of the latest version (0.53)
>

Re: [Plib-users] Glut or SDL

[Brad C. <bco...@ac...>]

I would think that you could use both.  Use SDL for your
multimedia/controls/2D layer and use ssg for your 3D OpenGL
scenegraph within the 3D layer of SDL.

I didn't see any mention of a scene graph implementation within
SDL (although I just quickly glanced at the web site), and it's
a lot nicer to develop a large 3D program using a scene graph.

Hope this helps,

B-

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave McClurg" <dp...@ef...>
To: <pli...@li...>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 9:17 AM
Subject: [Plib-users] Glut or SDL


> I'm about to launch into a large project (commercial game) using OpenGL and
PLIB
>
> For window support, I need to choose between GLUT and SDL
> (http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/SDL/).
> Which would you choose and why?
>
> The big ports by lokigames are done with SDL.
> glTron/Andreas recently switched over to SDL.
> Any reason you can see to not follow the elephant tracks?
> Any advice or technical pro/con in this area?
>
> i don't think licensing is an issue because SDL is LGPL and
> GLUT is "freely distributable" (same as public domain?).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> plib-users mailing list
> pli...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/plib-users
>

[Plib-users] Glut or SDL

[Dave M. <dp...@ef...>]

I'm about to launch into a large project (commercial game) using OpenGL and PLIB

For window support, I need to choose between GLUT and SDL
(http://www.devolution.com/~slouken/SDL/).
Which would you choose and why?

The big ports by lokigames are done with SDL.
glTron/Andreas recently switched over to SDL.
Any reason you can see to not follow the elephant tracks?
Any advice or technical pro/con in this area?

i don't think licensing is an issue because SDL is LGPL and
GLUT is "freely distributable" (same as public domain?).

[Plib-users] Help

[Matthew B. <Roy...@US...>]

Jasmin Patry wrote:
help

Re: [Plib-users] Options for textured models

[Jasmin P. <jf...@mu...>]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, Steve Baker wrote:

> We know that the 3DS loader has some problems with textured models - and
> the author (Per Liedman <li...@ho...>) has indicated that he's willing
> to fix them if someone will send him some examples of files that fail.

(Actually, in response to my email, Per said he didn't have time to look
into it.)  Dave McClurg has been very helpful getting ASE to work (turns
out there were problems with the way the models had been set up in
3DSMax), so that problem seems to be solved (thanks, Dave!).  I can't
confirm if there really was a problem with the 3DS loader (since I don't
have a copy of 3DSMax), or if that problem was also due to problems with
the models themselves.

> Does TuxRacer load '.ac' models OK?

No, Tux Racer doesn't load any 3D modeller's file formats currently.  

Btw, any idea when the next release of PLIB will be out (i.e, one that
will incorporates the ASE loader)?

Cheers,
Jasmin

Re: [Plib-users] It's Possible???

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Horacio Sanson wrote:

> I want to have two 3d objects to be defined separately and in some point make
> them part of the same object, so any transformation affects both objects
> equally. Is this possible???

Yes.

You need to visualise the SSG scene graph as a tree:


                         parent node
                             |
              _______________|_______________________ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
             |                               |                     |
   Player_ssgTransform              Sword_ssgTransform     Rooms,Dragons,etc
             |                               |
     ________|________                       |
    |                 |                Sword_ssgBranch
 Body_ssgBranch   Arm_ssgTransform           |
    |                 |                      |
 Body_ssgLeaf(s)  Arm_ssgBranch        Swort_ssgLeaf(s)
                      |
                  Arm_ssgLeafs


When the player picks up the sword you should probably do the following:

   add the Sword's ssgTransform node to the Arm's ssgBranch

   removeKid the Sword's ssgTransform from the parent node

   change the Sword's transformation to position it in the player's
   hand relative to his arm.

>From then on, the sword will stay 'glued' to the player's hand.

The scene graph should now look like this:

                         parent node
                             |
              _______________|_______________________ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
             |                                                     |
   Player_ssgTransform                                    Rooms,Dragons,etc
             |
     ________|________
    |                 |
 Body_ssgBranch   Arm_ssgTransform
    |                 |
 Body_ssgLeaf(s)  Arm_ssgBranch
                      |______________________
                      |                      |
                  Arm_ssgLeafs               |
                                     Sword_ssgTransform
                                             |
                                             |
                                      Sword_ssgBranch
                                             |
                                             |
                                     Swort_ssgLeaf(s)

Make sure you add the sword to the player *before* you detach it
from the parent node because SSG deletes nodes that are no longer
connected into the scene anywhere.
  
In general, you could use this to place the sword onto moving
vehicles, to make the player ride a horse, etc, etc.

-- 
Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
sjb...@ai... (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
sj...@ht...      (work)

[Plib-users] It's Possible???

[Horacio S. <Ry...@Me...>]

	

I want to have two 3d objects to be defined separately and in some point make
them part of the same object, so any transformation affects both objects
equally. Is this possible???

For example, i have a player.....  this player is a human 3d model, but this
model can use several types of weapons, and armors so when he uses a dagger,
the model of a dagger becomes an extension of the arm of the payer model and if
the player uses a long sword, the long sword model becomes an extension of the
hand. The same way i want my model to use a chain mail as armor, so i have a
model for a chain mail that becomes part of the player model, later it will use
a Plate mail that is bigger armor.


Another example is if an enemy throws an arrow against my player and it hits the
player shoulder,  the arrow and the shoulder must stick together so if the
player moves the arrow moves acordingly. 


Thanks....

[Plib-users] Fwd: It's Possible???

[Horacio S. <Ry...@Me...>]

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
Subject: It's Possible???
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:47:26 -0500
From: Horacio Sanson <Ryujin@Melissa.LoRdZ>


I want to have two 3d objects to be defined separately and in some point make
them part of the same object, so any transformation affects both objects
equally. Is this possible???

For example, i have a player.....  this player is a human 3d model, but this
model can use several types of weapons, and armors so when he uses a dagger,
the model of a dagger becomes an extension of the arm of the payer model and if
the player uses a long sword, the long sword model becomes an extension of the
hand. The same way i want my model to use a chain mail as armor, so i have a
model for a chain mail that becomes part of the player model, later it will use
a Plate mail that is bigger armor.


Another example is if an enemy throws an arrow against my player and it hits the
player shoulder,  the arrow and the shoulder must stick together so if the
player moves the arrow moves acordingly. 


Thanks....
-------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Plib-users] Options for textured models

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Jasmin Patry wrote:

> I wrote about a week ago about problems I was having loading 3DS models
> with PLIB (both 1.1.11 and CVS).  It was suggested that I also try ASE,
> but I got no further with that.
> 
> James Barnard, a 3D artist, has offered to create models for my game Tux
> Racer (http://tuxracer.sourceforge.net).  He's currently using 3D Studio
> Max, and says that he'll get softimage soon.  So far all my attempts to
> load his textured models in PLIB have failed.

We know that the 3DS loader has some problems with textured models - and
the author (Per Liedman <li...@ho...>) has indicated that he's willing
to fix them if someone will send him some examples of files that fail.

> I'd like to find a solution that works before he gets too discouraged
> and goes away. :-)  My current idea is to buy AC3D, use it to load his
> 3DS models, and save them as AC.  I take it that PLIB's AC loader is
> fairly well tested and works with textured models -- is that correct?

My experience with AC3D is that it's loaders for alien file formats
suck.  Dunno if that's universally true - but I wouldn't hold out
great hope.

I have a copy of AC3D - so if you'd like to send me your 3DS models
I'll try to convert them and send you back the converted models as
AC3D '.ac' files - which should load OK.
 
> How good is AC3D's 3DS loader?  That will be a crucial link in the
> chain.  (I don't think the shareware version allows importing of any
> models from other formats.)

Nope.  But I have the full version.

> James also created a model with transparency maps (these are separate
> images, currently).  Any idea if this will work?  I suppose I could
> incorporate the transparency into the texture's alpha channel...

It will work when we have the 3DS loader fixed.
 
Does TuxRacer load '.ac' models OK?

-- 
Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
sjb...@ai... (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
sj...@ht...      (work)

Re: [Plib-users] Texture with transparency

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Michael Wessels wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I will load a bmp as texture with the ssgTexture. Then I need to define
> the color black as transparency that means all pixels of he image with
> the color black must have a alpha-value 0.
> Has anybody an code-example, which can do this work ?

This isn't something I've tried - and certainly SSG can't do this directly.

One thing you could do is steal a copy of the BMP texture loader from
SSG and hack it to do what you want.  SSG lets you load textures yourself
and just pass it the OpenGL texture handle.

The joy of OpenSource software is that you can do this kind of thing!

-- 
Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
sjb...@ai... (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
sj...@ht...      (work)

Re: [Plib-users] Cannot open -lX11 at compile

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Simon Foster wrote:
> 
> I have tried to compile plib under SuSE Linux, and
> after numerous problems I finally managed to get the
> thing to start compiling. It gets to where is compiles
> the js example and then bails out with "Cannot open
> -lX11, although I'm sure the library exists in
> /usr/X11R6/lib. Why can't it find it?

I develop using SuSE Linux - so you really shouldn't have any
problems if you have SuSE set up correctly.

I have libX11 in these locations (according to 'find'):

/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a
/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so
/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6
/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6.1

What *might* be wrong is something like a missing symlink
that SuSE should have installed... eg: /usr/X11 links to
/usr/X11R6

...but you say that you had 'numerous problems' and that
you 'got around' them.  This says to me that you have some
serious mis-install problems.

One common error is to fail to ask SuSE's YAST program to
install the X11 development package.  I did this on my laptop
a couple of weeks ago (thinking that this was the package for
developing X windows rather than the package for compiling
programs that use X).  For some insane reason, this is not
the default (grrrrr).

-- 
Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
sjb...@ai... (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
sj...@ht...      (work)

Re: [Plib-users] Texture with transparency

[Dave M. <dp...@ef...>]

Michael wrote:
>I have loaded a texture with  the following function
>
> // Load of a BMP-Image with the Library PLIB
>    void FDS_Load_Image_BMP(char *filename)
> {
>    tex_list = new ssgTexture ( filename ) ;
> }
>
>I works well.
>
>But now I have to know the width and height of  the texture and the
>raster, in order to manipulate the alpha values. How can I get these
>informations?
>

tex_list->getHandle() gives you the OpenGL handle
glGetTexLevelParameter and glGetTexImage returns what you need

[Plib-users] Texture with transparency

[Michael W. <michael.wessels@z.zgs.de>]

Hi all,

I have loaded a texture with  the following function

 // Load of a BMP-Image with the Library PLIB
    void FDS_Load_Image_BMP(char *filename)
 {
    tex_list = new ssgTexture ( filename ) ;
 }

I works well.

But now I have to know the width and height of  the texture and the
raster, in order to manipulate the alpha values. How can I get these
informations?

With regards

Michael

Re: [Plib-users] Options for textured models

[Dave M. <dp...@ef...>]

Jasmin wrote:
>I wrote about a week ago about problems I was having loading 3DS models
>with PLIB (both 1.1.11 and CVS).  It was suggested that I also try ASE,
>but I got no further with that.  
>
ASE should work fine.  i'd be glad to help if you send me the ASE model and textures.
when James (3D artist) exports the model as ASE, make sure he checks the boxes for
texture coordinates, otherwise you don't get them.  It won't hurt to check all the boxes
and include extra information.

>I'd like to find a solution that works before he gets too discouraged
>and goes away. :-)  My current idea is to buy AC3D, use it to load his
>3DS models, and save them as AC.  I take it that PLIB's AC loader is
>fairly well tested and works with textured models -- is that correct?
>
I just looked at the code and PLIB's AC loader handles textures fine.
In fact, tux_aqfh uses the AC loader.  Also, the tux example in PLIB does too.
I have a registered copy of AC3D if you want me to try anything for you.

>James also created a model with transparency maps (these are separate
>images, currently).  Any idea if this will work?  I suppose I could
>incorporate the transparency into the texture's alpha channel...
>
we should be able to get that to work with ASE.  the ASE format has
sub materials to handle transparency maps.  i just need to add support for
loading them and change the main texture's alpha.   An easier way to
handle this is to use SGI images which can have an alpha channel in them.

>Any help would be appreciated.
>
I'm glad to.  Just send me some data.

--Dave
dp...@ef...

[Plib-users] Options for textured models

[Jasmin P. <jf...@mu...>]

Hi,

I wrote about a week ago about problems I was having loading 3DS models
with PLIB (both 1.1.11 and CVS).  It was suggested that I also try ASE,
but I got no further with that.  

James Barnard, a 3D artist, has offered to create models for my game Tux
Racer (http://tuxracer.sourceforge.net).  He's currently using 3D Studio
Max, and says that he'll get softimage soon.  So far all my attempts to
load his textured models in PLIB have failed.

I'd like to find a solution that works before he gets too discouraged
and goes away. :-)  My current idea is to buy AC3D, use it to load his
3DS models, and save them as AC.  I take it that PLIB's AC loader is
fairly well tested and works with textured models -- is that correct?

How good is AC3D's 3DS loader?  That will be a crucial link in the
chain.  (I don't think the shareware version allows importing of any
models from other formats.)

James also created a model with transparency maps (these are separate
images, currently).  Any idea if this will work?  I suppose I could
incorporate the transparency into the texture's alpha channel...

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Jasmin

Re: [Plib-users] Texture with transparency

[Dave M. <dp...@ef...>]

I don't think there is any way to pass a color kty for transparency to PLIB.
You need to convert your texture to a SGI image and give it an alpha channel
or come up with a clever use of glBlendFunc to get the desired result.
Anyone know the right Blend function to use?

At 3/13/00 11:03:00 PM, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I will load a bmp as texture with the ssgTexture. Then I need to define
>the color black as transparency that means all pixels of he image with
>the color black must have a alpha-value 0.
>Has anybody an code-example, which can do this work ?
>
>Michael
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>plib-users mailing list
>pli...@li...
>http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/plib-users
>

[Plib-users] Texture with transparency

[Michael W. <michael.wessels@z.zgs.de>]

Hi all,

I will load a bmp as texture with the ssgTexture. Then I need to define
the color black as transparency that means all pixels of he image with
the color black must have a alpha-value 0.
Has anybody an code-example, which can do this work ?

Michael

Re: RE: [Plib-users] 3DS loading problem

[Dave M. <dp...@ef...>]

get the latest PLIB from sourceforge at http://sourceforge.net/project/?group_id=382
it has the 3DS and ASE loaders written in C++

--mcdave

Ryujin wrote:
>I don't know much about 3DS or ASE file formats,   so i wonder if i can get
>your ASE loader, or any 3DS loader in C to use.

RE: [Plib-users] 3DS loading problem

[horacio <hs...@ca...>]

I don't know much about 3DS or ASE file formats,   so i wonder if i can get
your ASE loader, or any 3DS loader in C to use.


Ryujin
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave McClurg <dp...@ef...>
To: <pli...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 1:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Plib-users] 3DS loading problem


> I don't know much about the 3DS loader but I did write the ASE loader.
> If your artist has 3D Studio Max, they should be able to export an ASE
> file for you.  ASE (ascii export) is a standard plugin in 3D Studio Max.
>
> If you still have problems with ASE, email me the model and I'll
> investigate if you like.
>
> --Dave
>
> Jasmin wrote:
> > I'm having problems loading a 3DS model with textures.  The model seems
> > to load fine, but the textures aren't being displayed.
> > This model was sent to me by someone (I don't have 3D Studio Max)
>
> _______________________________________________
> plib-users mailing list
> pli...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/plib-users

Re: [Plib-users] 3DS loading problem

[Per L. <li...@ho...>]

On Thu, 09 Mar 2000, Jasmin Patry wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm having problems loading a 3DS model with textures.  The model seems
> to load fine, but the textures aren't being displayed.

I wrote the 3ds loader for plib, but unfortunately I never got the chance to
test textured models, and that is probably why it isn't working ;-)

Somone sent some patches a few weeks ago, that were supposed to fixed textured
3ds objects, but I'm not sure if this modifications have been included yet.

I don't have the time to look into this right now, but I don't think it will be
that hard, since the fundamentals for textured objects are there...

Regards,
Per

-- 
   / Per Liedman
  / li...@ho...
 / www.mdstud.chalmers.se/~md6pl
/ 031-825659 / 0705-520455

RE: [Plib-users] 3DS loading problem

[Dave M. <dp...@ef...>]

I don't know much about the 3DS loader but I did write the ASE loader.
If your artist has 3D Studio Max, they should be able to export an ASE
file for you.  ASE (ascii export) is a standard plugin in 3D Studio Max.

If you still have problems with ASE, email me the model and I'll
investigate if you like.

--Dave

Jasmin wrote:
> I'm having problems loading a 3DS model with textures.  The model seems
> to load fine, but the textures aren't being displayed.
> This model was sent to me by someone (I don't have 3D Studio Max)

[Plib-users] 3DS loading problem

[Jasmin P. <jf...@ho...>]

Hi,

I'm having problems loading a 3DS model with textures.  The model seems
to load fine, but the textures aren't being displayed.

This model was sent to me by someone (I don't have 3D Studio Max), and I
had to rescale the textures to powers of 2.  The original textures were
8 bit; if I leave them at 8 bit then the faces that are supposed to be
texture-mapped become totally transparent.  If I resample them to 24 bit
the faces reappear, their colour changes (though it's still a solid
colour, not a texture, though the colours are pretty close to the average
colour of the respective textures), but that's it.

I'm using plib-1.1.11 and plib_examples 1.1.8 (I'm using the a slightly
modified version of the 'load' program in the load_save ssg example to
load and display the model.)

Any ideas what's going on?  Does the fact that I resampled the textures
invalidate the 3DS model?  

Thanks,
Jasmin

Re: [Plib-users] Cannot open -lX11 at compile

[Dave M. <dp...@ef...>]

I don't think /usr/X11R6/lib is a trusted lib directory. 
I think you are supposed to use ldconfig to correct this

http://hegel.ittc.ukans.edu/topics/linux/man-pages/man8/ldconfig.8.html

personally, i usually end up just copying the file i want into /usr/lib
because i'm a linux newbie and i want things to work right away.

--Dave

At 3/8/00 3:04:00 AM, you wrote:
>I have tried to compile plib under SuSE Linux, and
>after numerous problems I finally managed to get the
>thing to start compiling. It gets to where is compiles
>the js example and then bails out with "Cannot open   
>-lX11, although I'm sure the library exists in
>/usr/X11R6/lib. Why can't it find it?
>
>SiMON
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>plib-users mailing list
>pli...@li...
>http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/plib-users
>

[Plib-users] Cannot open -lX11 at compile

[<fa...@ya...>]

I have tried to compile plib under SuSE Linux, and
after numerous problems I finally managed to get the
thing to start compiling. It gets to where is compiles
the js example and then bails out with "Cannot open   
-lX11, although I'm sure the library exists in
/usr/X11R6/lib. Why can't it find it?

SiMON
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

Re: [Plib-users] DAG issues

[Steve B. <sjb...@ai...>]

Rahul Choudhury wrote:
> 
> Steve:
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. I noticed that any node
> thats derived from ssgEntity can have multiple
> parents. Doesn't it mean that a scene graph
> represented by SSG is not necessarily a Directed
> Acyclic Graph ?

Yep. That's a design feature.

For example, in my Tux game, there are lots of red, green,
silver and gold herring that spin around.  Each level has
dozens of herring - and I wouldn't want to have to compute
a matrix for each of them.  However, since a single spinning
herring model can have multiple parents, I can have as many
spinning herring as I want - although they are all simple
instances of the same basic herring.

> What are the implications of this ?

Well, it makes reading and writing files "interesting".

I don't imagine there will generally be many cases where
positions of things like those herring would be held in
a single model file.  My games load basic objects from
standard file formats - but how they are arranged to form
a total scene is something that I would use a custom 'level'
file format that could associate behaviours and special effects
with those models.

That setup makes it perfectly natural to have multiple copies
of an object.
 
> I thought we only need geometry nodes (ssgLeafs) to
> have multiple parents for instancing purpose. Please
> let me know your thoughts. (any one who is interested)

No - I think it's useful (and natural) to have 'instancing'
at any level in the tree - it's not hard to do and it has
significant benefits.

-- 
Steve Baker                  http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1
sjb...@ai... (home)  http://www.woodsoup.org/~sbaker
sj...@ht...      (work)