pipmak-users — Content creation for the Pipmak Game Engine

[Pipmak-Users] Fully animated cube

[Urs H. <ur...@an...>]

Hi

In many adventures, you can drive with a car or similar. But those trips
are always simple videos, you can't decide yourself in which direction
to look. I think, why not animating all faces of the cube? Like this,
you can look in all directions as you wish while the video is playing.

I tried to do that with Pipmak. Remember: Pipmak does not really support
movies at the moment. So I used a sheduled function wich is called
every half second. This function simply replaces all faces with the
corresponding next frames. You can see yourself, that this is not
really efficient. So, this is rather a hack than something useful.

Look at
http://www.andonyar.com/rec/2006-03/pipmakfullanimation/
The *.pipmak file is the Pipmak-Project. It contains all images needed.
Beware: It's nearly 10Mb.

bye

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Pipmak-Users digest, Vol 1 #37 - 2 msgs

[Liam S. <Li...@fr...>]

Ahhhhhhh!

The sound of angels singing fills the room.

(Much better than the sound of Grues.)

Must sleep now but I tried this and it WORKS! I can now see what is  
going on. SO happy.

Thanks,

Liam

On Mar 20, 2006, at 11:24 PM, pipmak-users- 
re...@li... wrote:

> Send Pipmak-Users mailing list submissions to
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Pipmak-Users digest, Vol 1 #34 - 4 msgs (Urs Holzer)
>    2. Re: Basic Mac help (Christian Walther)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> To: pip...@li...
> From:  Urs Holzer <ur...@an...>
> Date:  Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:26:53 +0100
> Subject: [Pipmak-Users] Re: Pipmak-Users digest, Vol 1 #34 - 4 msgs
> Reply-To: pip...@li...
>
> Hi
>
> Liam Shannon wrote:
>
>> Now, if one double clicks or tries to open the "main.lua"  or any of
>> the node.lua files in order to see what is written in them or to
>> modify what is written so as to create your own world,  it says there
>> is no default application set to open the document. If one specifies
>> that the file should be opened in Pipmak that just launches the
>> Pipmak Game Engine window. If one then clicks on open project, it
>> just launches the Pipmak Game Demo game.
>>
>> So how is one to see what is written in the lua node files so as to
>> change it?
>>
>
> The .lua-files are text files. This means, you can open them in a text
> editor. With text editor, I don't mean something like Microsoft  
> Word or
> similar. I mean an editor, that handles simple .txt-files. I don't  
> know
> any text files for the mac. For GNU/Linux-users there are vi, emacs,
> kate and many many more. For windows, you can also download vi or
> emacs, but for simple tasks, you can use notepad which is shipped with
> windows itself.
>
> Does this help?
>
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> To: pip...@li...
> From:  Christian Walther <cwa...@gm...>
> Date:  Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:09:29 +0100
> Subject: [Pipmak-Users] Re: Basic Mac help
> Reply-To: pip...@li...
>
> Hello Liam
>
> Two little technicalities first:
> - When you reply to a digest, please edit the subject line to say
> something more specific than "Re: Pipmak-Users digest, Vol 1 #34 - 4
> msgs". Makes it easier to find the message in a long list that only
> shows subjects.
> - Please don't quote the whole digest below your message. Trim it  
> to the
> points you're specifically referring to in your answer (although I  
> favor
> inline replies (see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting>) in  
> that
> case), or remove it entirely. As it is, your message consists of 8%
> meaningful new text and 92% redundant quoted old text.
>
> On to the important stuff: :)
>
> Liam Shannon wrote:
>
>> Perhaps the best way to move forward would be to ask a question and
>> then go off with the answer and work until the next problem is
>> encountered.
>>
>
> That's what I had in mind. It's actually the very purpose of this
> mailing list.
>
>
>> Not fast but...
>>
>
> I think it's actually faster (or at least more time efficient for me)
> than if I wrote a full tutorial, because this way I don't have to
> explain the steps that you do figure out yourself.
>
>
>> Now, if one double clicks or tries to open the "main.lua"  or any  
>> of the
>> node.lua files in order to see what is written in them or to  
>> modify what
>> is written so as to create your own world,  it says there is no  
>> default
>> application set to open the document.
>> ...
>> So how is one to see what is written in the lua node files so as to
>> change it?
>>
>
> Good point. That's one of the issues that I would never have  
> thought of,
> even though I guess it's a natural obstacle for non-technical  
> users. (To
> be perfectly clear, that's *my* fault, not yours.)
>
> Anyway, the Lua files are ordinary plain text files that you can open
> with any text editor. TextEdit that comes with Mac OS X (in the
> Applications folder) does the job, if you want more comfort such as
> syntax coloring or more sophisticated search features you can try
> SubEthaEdit (<http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/index.html>,
> version 2.2 is free) or TextWrangler
> <http://www.bbedit.com/products/textwrangler/index.shtml>. Don't use
> word processors like Word or Pages, they will mess up the text with
> their formatting data (and in TextEdit, make sure that you keep the
> files as "Plain Text", not "Rich Text").
>
> Select a Lua file in the Finder, choose "Get Info" from the File menu,
> open the "Open with" compartment, choose "Other Application..."  
> from the
> popup menu and select TextEdit (or whatever text editor you want to
> use), then click the button below to apply the change to all Lua  
> files.
> You should then be able to double click the files to open them.
>
>
>> Again, thanks for any help. And by the way, I will be more than  
>> happy to
>> write up this process for new users as soon as I understand it  
>> myself.
>>
>
> That would be very much appreciated.
>
> Good luck in your proceeding!
>
>   -Christian
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pipmak-Users mailing list
> Pip...@li...
> news://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.devel.pipmak.user
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pipmak-users
>
> End of Pipmak-Users Digest
>

Liam Shannon
Creative Director
Fresh Cut Grass Advertising

22 Everett Street
Sherborn, MA 01770
(508)545-2125

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Basic Mac help

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Hello Liam

Two little technicalities first:
- When you reply to a digest, please edit the subject line to say 
something more specific than "Re: Pipmak-Users digest, Vol 1 #34 - 4 
msgs". Makes it easier to find the message in a long list that only 
shows subjects.
- Please don't quote the whole digest below your message. Trim it to the 
points you're specifically referring to in your answer (although I favor 
inline replies (see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting>) in that 
case), or remove it entirely. As it is, your message consists of 8% 
meaningful new text and 92% redundant quoted old text.

On to the important stuff: :)

Liam Shannon wrote:
> Perhaps the best way to move forward would be to ask a question and
> then go off with the answer and work until the next problem is
> encountered.

That's what I had in mind. It's actually the very purpose of this 
mailing list.

> Not fast but...

I think it's actually faster (or at least more time efficient for me) 
than if I wrote a full tutorial, because this way I don't have to 
explain the steps that you do figure out yourself.

> Now, if one double clicks or tries to open the "main.lua"  or any of the 
> node.lua files in order to see what is written in them or to modify what 
> is written so as to create your own world,  it says there is no default 
> application set to open the document.
> ...
> So how is one to see what is written in the lua node files so as to 
> change it?

Good point. That's one of the issues that I would never have thought of, 
even though I guess it's a natural obstacle for non-technical users. (To 
be perfectly clear, that's *my* fault, not yours.)

Anyway, the Lua files are ordinary plain text files that you can open 
with any text editor. TextEdit that comes with Mac OS X (in the 
Applications folder) does the job, if you want more comfort such as 
syntax coloring or more sophisticated search features you can try 
SubEthaEdit (<http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/index.html>, 
version 2.2 is free) or TextWrangler 
<http://www.bbedit.com/products/textwrangler/index.shtml>. Don't use 
word processors like Word or Pages, they will mess up the text with 
their formatting data (and in TextEdit, make sure that you keep the 
files as "Plain Text", not "Rich Text").

Select a Lua file in the Finder, choose "Get Info" from the File menu, 
open the "Open with" compartment, choose "Other Application..." from the 
popup menu and select TextEdit (or whatever text editor you want to 
use), then click the button below to apply the change to all Lua files. 
You should then be able to double click the files to open them.

> Again, thanks for any help. And by the way, I will be more than happy to 
> write up this process for new users as soon as I understand it myself.

That would be very much appreciated.

Good luck in your proceeding!

  -Christian

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Pipmak-Users digest, Vol 1 #34 - 4 msgs

[Urs H. <ur...@an...>]

Hi

Liam Shannon wrote:
> Now, if one double clicks or tries to open the "main.lua"  or any of
> the node.lua files in order to see what is written in them or to
> modify what is written so as to create your own world,  it says there
> is no default application set to open the document. If one specifies
> that the file should be opened in Pipmak that just launches the
> Pipmak Game Engine window. If one then clicks on open project, it
> just launches the Pipmak Game Demo game.
> 
> So how is one to see what is written in the lua node files so as to
> change it?

The .lua-files are text files. This means, you can open them in a text
editor. With text editor, I don't mean something like Microsoft Word or
similar. I mean an editor, that handles simple .txt-files. I don't know
any text files for the mac. For GNU/Linux-users there are vi, emacs,
kate and many many more. For windows, you can also download vi or
emacs, but for simple tasks, you can use notepad which is shipped with
windows itself. 

Does this help?

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Pipmak-Users digest, Vol 1 #34 - 4 msgs

[Liam S. <Li...@fr...>]

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. Perhaps the best way to move  
forward would be to ask a question and then go off with the answer  
and work until the next problem is encountered. Not fast but it will  
avoid the issues you bring up as to what is obvious to whom.

In the interest of starting such a process.

I have right-clicked on the Pipmak Demo and this brings up the window  
with the elements of the demo (the node folders with their pictures  
and lua documents)

SO far so good.

Now, if one double clicks or tries to open the "main.lua"  or any of  
the node.lua files in order to see what is written in them or to  
modify what is written so as to create your own world,  it says there  
is no default application set to open the document. If one specifies  
that the file should be opened in Pipmak that just launches the  
Pipmak Game Engine window. If one then clicks on open project, it  
just launches the Pipmak Game Demo game.

So how is one to see what is written in the lua node files so as to  
change it?

I told you this was pretty basic stuff. Forget what one writes when  
one gets into the file, I can't even open it - hence my trying to  
load Lua for Mac, use the console window, etc. , etc.

Again, thanks for any help. And by the way, I will be more than happy  
to write up this process for new users as soon as I understand it  
myself.

All the best,

Liam


  On Mar 17, 2006, at 11:27 PM, pipmak-users- 
re...@li... wrote:

> Send Pipmak-Users mailing list submissions to
> 	pip...@li...
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pipmak-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	pip...@li...
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	pip...@li...
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Pipmak-Users digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Basic Mac help (Liam Shannon)
>    2. Re: Basic Mac help (Urs Holzer)
>    3. Re: Basic Mac help (Christian Walther)
>    4. Re: Basic Mac help (Urs Holzer)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> To: pip...@li...
> From: Liam Shannon <Li...@fr...>
> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:43:52 -0500
> Subject: [Pipmak-Users] Basic Mac help
> Reply-To: pip...@li...
>
> As it seems Pipmak is aimed at people who are not serious game
> coders, is there any chance that someone could create some kind of
> documentation, even if it was just a page long, to tell people how to
> do basic stuff, like open the Pipmak Demo and see/use the code, for
> people who do not have a background in programming.
>
>  From looking at the Pipmak numbered files, and reading the
> discussion of how the program works, it seems like there would be a
> relatively short learning curve in order to start breaking into
> Pipmak. Of course, real expertise and artful use would take longer
> and require more learning.
>
> But as it is, for someone without a basic understanding of how to get
> started, one can't do anything. And none of the Lua sites (that I can
> find anyway) give a basic overview of any of this. All of them are
> aimed at people who are already programmers and are new to Lua only.
>
> What is needed is a basic step by step process that introduces first
> the new paradigm of writing programs on a mac and goes from there.
> ie. Does one have to install Lua for Mac on your machine first? If so
> how is that done? How does one see/work on/ "compile" (hard as it may
> seem to understand, to many many people, compiling is not a concept
> many people have any idea of) files? What is the "Console" program
> and how does it work - again there is no reference material on any of
> this anywhere I can find.
>
> As it is, all the documentation assumes a level of programming
> understanding beyond what I would assume many of the possible users
> of Pipmak have.
>
> I only share this as I have talked to many people who might use
> Pipmak and become loyal users/developers/community members, if only
> they could find a little help with understanding what is basically a
> new paradigm. In general, most such people come from other
> disciplines, graphic experts/3d modellers, interactive fiction
> writers, etc.
>
> If the goal is not for Pipmak to become a kind of middleware for a
> larger user base then I would understand not wanting to offer this
> help - though it would seem that is self-defeating, as those who
> already understand programming are inherently a group less in need of
> the program.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Liam
>
> Liam Shannon
> Creative Director
> Fresh Cut Grass Advertising
>
> 22 Everett Street
> Sherborn, MA 01770
> (508)545-2125
>
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> To: pip...@li...
> From:  Urs Holzer <ur...@an...>
> Date:  Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:53:04 +0100
> Subject: [Pipmak-Users] Re: Basic Mac help
> Reply-To: pip...@li...
>
> Hi
>
>> As it seems Pipmak is aimed at people who are not serious game
>> coders, is there any chance that someone could create some kind of
>> documentation, even if it was just a page long, to tell people how to
>> do basic stuff, like open the Pipmak Demo and see/use the code, for
>> people who do not have a background in programming.
>
> Would it be useful to have a step by step tutorial that describes  
> how to
> create a simple pipmak-project? Do you mean something like this?
>
>>  From looking at the Pipmak numbered files, and reading the
>> discussion of how the program works, it seems like there would be a
>> relatively short learning curve in order to start breaking into
>> Pipmak. [...]
>
> Right. Games that don't need some special features are easily created.
>
>> But as it is, for someone without a basic understanding of how to get
>> started, one can't do anything. And none of the Lua sites (that I can
>> find anyway) give a basic overview of any of this. All of them are
>> aimed at people who are already programmers and are new to Lua only.
>
> http://www.lua.org/
> I see your problem. For the first steps in pipmak, you do not need to
> know anything about lua at all. You only have to create images and
> hotspot-maps. Like this you can already create a few panoramas, for
> example a little island on which you can walk around. To create the
> corresponding .lua-files, you only have to copy and modify some
> statements. You can take the ones from the demo project of pipmak.
> (Look at the end of this post.)
>
>> What is needed is a basic step by step process that introduces first
>> the new paradigm of writing programs on a mac and goes from there.
>> ie. Does one have to install Lua for Mac on your machine first? If so
>> how is that done? How does one see/work on/ "compile" (hard as it may
>> seem to understand, to many many people, compiling is not a concept
>> many people have any idea of) files? What is the "Console" program
>> and how does it work - again there is no reference material on any of
>> this anywhere I can find.
>
> In order to create a pipmak-game (or project if you want), you do not
> need to compile pipmak itself. Lua is linked statically into  
> pipmak, so
> you don't even have to install lua. Just download the newest build of
> pipmak for the mac.
>
>> As it is, all the documentation assumes a level of programming
>> understanding beyond what I would assume many of the possible users
>> of Pipmak have.
>
> The main problem seems to be to find the information you need.
>
>> I only share this as I have talked to many people who might use
>> Pipmak and become loyal users/developers/community members, if only
>> they could find a little help with understanding what is basically a
>> new paradigm. In general, most such people come from other
>> disciplines, graphic experts/3d modellers, interactive fiction
>> writers, etc.
>
> Graphic experts and 3d modellers? Advice them immediately to use  
> pipmak!
> I hope to see a free, graphically fantastic game on pipmak!  
> (Dreams ...
> some become true.)
>
>> If the goal is not for Pipmak to become a kind of middleware for a
>> larger user base then I would understand not wanting to offer this
>> help - though it would seem that is self-defeating, as those who
>> already understand programming are inherently a group less in need of
>> the program.
>
> As I'm not the author of pipmak, I'm not saying anything about the
> destination of pipmak. But for me it's like this: I have some
> programming skills, but wouldn't be able to write my own "Myst"-engine
> from scratch. Exactly such an engine is Pipmak. With Pipmak, I can
> concentrate on the game and am not bothered with technical thigs like
> OpenGL and protability. Unfortunately, I do not have much time at the
> moment to develop my game. So progress is only made very slowly.
>
> A simple pipmak-project:
>
> main.lua looks like this:
>
>   version (0.23)
>
>   title "Pipmak simple project"
>   startnode (1)
>
> OK, node 1 is our first position in a virtual world.
> Save all Images you need for this position in the folder 1.
> In 1/node.lua write the following:
>
>   cubic { "01.jpeg", "02.jpeg", "03.jpeg", "04.jpeg", "05.jpeg",
> "06.jpeg" }
>
>   hotspotmap "hotspots.png"
>
>   hotspot { target = 2 }
>   hotspot { target = 35 }
>
> Do the same thing for every position (node). If you have done this,  
> you
> can already wolk around in your virtual world. How the images  
> 01.jpg to
> 06.jpg and hotspots.png should look like should be described in the
> documentation to pipmak. You dont have to compile anything, simply  
> load
> main.lua with pipmak!
>
> Greetings
> Urs
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> To: pip...@li...
> From:  Christian Walther <cwa...@gm...>
> Date:  Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:19:23 +0100
> Subject: [Pipmak-Users] Re: Basic Mac help
> Reply-To: pip...@li...
>
> Hi Liam
>
> Urs has already said a lot of what I'd have answered, but let me (as
> Pipmak's author) elaborate on some points.
>
> First of all, thanks for bringing up the topic. I sometimes worry that
> there might be a lot of people in a similar situation to yours,
> potential Pipmak users, but who are too busy or afraid or whatever to
> ask questions (that I would happily answer) and so are turned away  
> from
> Pipmak.
>
> Let me explain why the state of documentation for Pipmak is what it  
> is.
> The reason I did not start with writing a tutorial (or other entry- 
> level
> documentation) is that I'm not too fond of tutorials myself. I usually
> find that I learn faster by examining examples, doing my own
> experiments, and looking things up in reference documentation. That's
> why I provide examples (the demo project that contains examples of how
> to use any of Pipmak's features) and reference documentation
> (Reference.pdf, which is still incomplete, but should be quite  
> usable by
> now). I realize that this style of documentation, essentially tailored
> to myself, may not be the right thing, or not sufficient, for other
> people. Therefore I would be very happy to have some complementary
> entry-level documentation, such as a simple tutorial, for Pipmak. I  
> have
> not written such documentation myself for the following reasons:
>
> 1. There is still a lot to do in Pipmak code-wise. Doing this requires
> programming skills, and having in-depth knowledge of Pipmak's code  
> makes
> it easier. Since I am the one who currently has more of that knowledge
> than anyone else, that looks like a job for me (but contributions are
> still welcome, of course). Entry-level documentation, on the other  
> hand,
> can just as well (or maybe even better) be written by a contributor
> without programming skills (but perhaps better writing and teaching
> skills than mine). So, it seems to me that time is better spent  
> with me
> programming and a contributor writing documentation than me writing
> documentation and the contributor doing nothing.
>
> 2. If I were to write entry-level documentation, it would  
> inevitably end
> up in the same style as the reference (and the comments in the demo
> project). That means that if you don't understand some concept in the
> reference, you possibly also wouldn't understand it in a tutorial
> written by me. In addition, I may neglect to properly explain things
> that (subconsciously) seem obvious to me as a programmer and as  
> someone
> perfectly familiar with Pipmak. An outsider, on the other hand, seeing
> things with fresh eyes, may be able to explain them in different ways
> and anticipate beginners' problems better.
>
> In short, I heartily encourage anyone who would like to help improve
> Pipmak to consider writing such documentation. Maybe you? Don't forget
> that I'm here to answer your questions, you don't have to be an  
> expert.
> I'm willing to guide you as much as necessary, this still is less work
> for me than writing a full tutorial.
>
>
>> But as it is, for someone without a basic understanding of how to get
>> started, one can't do anything. And none of the Lua sites (that I can
>> find anyway) give a basic overview of any of this. All of them are  
>> aimed
>> at people who are already programmers and are new to Lua only.
>
> As Urs already said, you don't need to know anything about Lua for
> simple projects. So I guess the problem for me to solve is how to  
> better
> make people aware of that.
>
>> What is needed is a basic step by step process that introduces  
>> first the
>> new paradigm of writing programs on a mac and goes from there. ie.  
>> Does
>> one have to install Lua for Mac on your machine first? If so how  
>> is that
>> done? How does one see/work on/ "compile" (hard as it may seem to
>> understand, to many many people, compiling is not a concept many  
>> people
>> have any idea of) files? What is the "Console" program and how  
>> does it
>> work - again there is no reference material on any of this anywhere I
>> can find.
>
> It's not necessary to install anything, it's not necessary to compile
> anything, and it's not necessary to use the console. Is there anything
> in Pipmak's documentation or on the web site that is giving you the
> impression you'd have to do any of these things? The question is meant
> to sound friendly, not arrogant - I'm genuinely interested, because if
> there is, that's something I need to fix.
>
>> As it is, all the documentation assumes a level of programming
>> understanding beyond what I would assume many of the possible  
>> users of
>> Pipmak have.
>
> That may be true, but it's not meant to. I'd like to change that,  
> but I
> need help. Do you think an additional piece of entry-level  
> documentation
> would alleviate the problem, or are there also things that need to be
> explained more throroughly in the reference?
>
> It's true that authoring a Pipmak project currently means writing text
> files, and not dragging stuff around with your mouse, but don't let  
> that
> discourage you. It need not have much to do with programming if you
> don't want to. In addition, graphical editing features are planned  
> (some
> fragments are even in place already, but as they aren't really useful
> yet, they're hidden by default).
>
>> I only share this as I have talked to many people who might use  
>> Pipmak
>> and become loyal users/developers/community members, if only they  
>> could
>> find a little help with understanding what is basically a new  
>> paradigm.
>> In general, most such people come from other disciplines, graphic
>> experts/3d modellers, interactive fiction writers, etc.
>
> It would be very exciting to have those people. Although I'm  
> hesitant to
> encourage too much evangelism at this point because Pipmak is  
> really not
> suited yet for more ambitious projects (the most important missing
> features are sound and movies), people who are willing to actively
> participate and help each other out are very welcome.
>
> I think the main problem at this time is that Pipmak is still
> essentially a one-man project, which means that it progresses very
> slowly, both on the feature front and the support/documentation front.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts!
>
>   -Christian
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> To: pip...@li...
> From:  Urs Holzer <ur...@an...>
> Date:  Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:16:11 +0100
> Subject: [Pipmak-Users] Re: Basic Mac help
> Reply-To: pip...@li...
>
> Hi all
>
> Christian Walther wrote:
>> [...]
>
>> [...] So, it seems to
>> me that time is better spent with me programming and a contributor
>> writing documentation than me writing documentation and the
>> contributor doing nothing.
>
> Haha! Do you allow me to quote that?
>
>> [...]
>
>> It would be very exciting to have those people. Although I'm hesitant
>> to encourage too much evangelism at this point because Pipmak is
>> really not suited yet for more ambitious projects (the most important
>> missing features are sound and movies), people who are willing to
>> actively participate and help each other out are very welcome.
>
> True.
> I wonder how fast those people could come up with graphically pleasing
> data for a Pipmak project.
>
>> I think the main problem at this time is that Pipmak is still
>> essentially a one-man project, which means that it progresses very
>> slowly, both on the feature front and the support/documentation  
>> front.
>
> True. Remember: slow progress is better than no progress. Up to now, I
> learned one thing: Honour the little achievements!
>
> cu
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pipmak-Users mailing list
> Pip...@li...
> news://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.devel.pipmak.user
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pipmak-users
>
> End of Pipmak-Users Digest

Liam Shannon
Creative Director
Fresh Cut Grass Advertising

22 Everett Street
Sherborn, MA 01770
(508)545-2125

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Basic Mac help

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Urs Holzer wrote:
>> [...] So, it seems to
>> me that time is better spent with me programming and a contributor
>> writing documentation than me writing documentation and the
>> contributor doing nothing.
> 
> Haha! Do you allow me to quote that?

If you take it out of context like this, rather not. :) The comment 
applies to entry-level "getting started" documentation, not to 
documentation in general. I want to make clear that I'm *not* avoiding 
documenting the code I write. I try hard to write reference 
documentation for every new feature I implement at the same time (i.e. 
before the feature first appears in a release).

The "outsider perspective" thing is important too, and it clearly 
doesn't apply to reference documentation.

  -Christian

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Basic Mac help

[Urs H. <ur...@an...>]

Hi all

Christian Walther wrote:
> [...]

> [...] So, it seems to
> me that time is better spent with me programming and a contributor
> writing documentation than me writing documentation and the
> contributor doing nothing.

Haha! Do you allow me to quote that?

> [...]

> It would be very exciting to have those people. Although I'm hesitant
> to encourage too much evangelism at this point because Pipmak is
> really not suited yet for more ambitious projects (the most important
> missing features are sound and movies), people who are willing to
> actively participate and help each other out are very welcome.

True.
I wonder how fast those people could come up with graphically pleasing
data for a Pipmak project.

> I think the main problem at this time is that Pipmak is still
> essentially a one-man project, which means that it progresses very
> slowly, both on the feature front and the support/documentation front.

True. Remember: slow progress is better than no progress. Up to now, I
learned one thing: Honour the little achievements! 

cu

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Basic Mac help

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Hi Liam

Urs has already said a lot of what I'd have answered, but let me (as 
Pipmak's author) elaborate on some points.

First of all, thanks for bringing up the topic. I sometimes worry that 
there might be a lot of people in a similar situation to yours, 
potential Pipmak users, but who are too busy or afraid or whatever to 
ask questions (that I would happily answer) and so are turned away from 
Pipmak.

Let me explain why the state of documentation for Pipmak is what it is. 
The reason I did not start with writing a tutorial (or other entry-level 
documentation) is that I'm not too fond of tutorials myself. I usually 
find that I learn faster by examining examples, doing my own 
experiments, and looking things up in reference documentation. That's 
why I provide examples (the demo project that contains examples of how 
to use any of Pipmak's features) and reference documentation 
(Reference.pdf, which is still incomplete, but should be quite usable by 
now). I realize that this style of documentation, essentially tailored 
to myself, may not be the right thing, or not sufficient, for other 
people. Therefore I would be very happy to have some complementary 
entry-level documentation, such as a simple tutorial, for Pipmak. I have 
not written such documentation myself for the following reasons:

1. There is still a lot to do in Pipmak code-wise. Doing this requires 
programming skills, and having in-depth knowledge of Pipmak's code makes 
it easier. Since I am the one who currently has more of that knowledge 
than anyone else, that looks like a job for me (but contributions are 
still welcome, of course). Entry-level documentation, on the other hand, 
can just as well (or maybe even better) be written by a contributor 
without programming skills (but perhaps better writing and teaching 
skills than mine). So, it seems to me that time is better spent with me 
programming and a contributor writing documentation than me writing 
documentation and the contributor doing nothing.

2. If I were to write entry-level documentation, it would inevitably end 
up in the same style as the reference (and the comments in the demo 
project). That means that if you don't understand some concept in the 
reference, you possibly also wouldn't understand it in a tutorial 
written by me. In addition, I may neglect to properly explain things 
that (subconsciously) seem obvious to me as a programmer and as someone 
perfectly familiar with Pipmak. An outsider, on the other hand, seeing 
things with fresh eyes, may be able to explain them in different ways 
and anticipate beginners' problems better.

In short, I heartily encourage anyone who would like to help improve 
Pipmak to consider writing such documentation. Maybe you? Don't forget 
that I'm here to answer your questions, you don't have to be an expert. 
I'm willing to guide you as much as necessary, this still is less work 
for me than writing a full tutorial.


> But as it is, for someone without a basic understanding of how to get 
> started, one can't do anything. And none of the Lua sites (that I can 
> find anyway) give a basic overview of any of this. All of them are aimed 
> at people who are already programmers and are new to Lua only.

As Urs already said, you don't need to know anything about Lua for 
simple projects. So I guess the problem for me to solve is how to better 
make people aware of that.

> What is needed is a basic step by step process that introduces first the 
> new paradigm of writing programs on a mac and goes from there. ie. Does 
> one have to install Lua for Mac on your machine first? If so how is that 
> done? How does one see/work on/ "compile" (hard as it may seem to 
> understand, to many many people, compiling is not a concept many people 
> have any idea of) files? What is the "Console" program and how does it 
> work - again there is no reference material on any of this anywhere I 
> can find.

It's not necessary to install anything, it's not necessary to compile 
anything, and it's not necessary to use the console. Is there anything 
in Pipmak's documentation or on the web site that is giving you the 
impression you'd have to do any of these things? The question is meant 
to sound friendly, not arrogant - I'm genuinely interested, because if 
there is, that's something I need to fix.

> As it is, all the documentation assumes a level of programming 
> understanding beyond what I would assume many of the possible users of 
> Pipmak have.

That may be true, but it's not meant to. I'd like to change that, but I 
need help. Do you think an additional piece of entry-level documentation 
would alleviate the problem, or are there also things that need to be 
explained more throroughly in the reference?

It's true that authoring a Pipmak project currently means writing text 
files, and not dragging stuff around with your mouse, but don't let that 
discourage you. It need not have much to do with programming if you 
don't want to. In addition, graphical editing features are planned (some 
fragments are even in place already, but as they aren't really useful 
yet, they're hidden by default).

> I only share this as I have talked to many people who might use Pipmak 
> and become loyal users/developers/community members, if only they could 
> find a little help with understanding what is basically a new paradigm. 
> In general, most such people come from other disciplines, graphic 
> experts/3d modellers, interactive fiction writers, etc.

It would be very exciting to have those people. Although I'm hesitant to 
encourage too much evangelism at this point because Pipmak is really not 
suited yet for more ambitious projects (the most important missing 
features are sound and movies), people who are willing to actively 
participate and help each other out are very welcome.

I think the main problem at this time is that Pipmak is still 
essentially a one-man project, which means that it progresses very 
slowly, both on the feature front and the support/documentation front.

Thanks for your thoughts!

  -Christian

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Basic Mac help

[Urs H. <ur...@an...>]

Hi

> As it seems Pipmak is aimed at people who are not serious game
> coders, is there any chance that someone could create some kind of
> documentation, even if it was just a page long, to tell people how to
> do basic stuff, like open the Pipmak Demo and see/use the code, for
> people who do not have a background in programming.

Would it be useful to have a step by step tutorial that describes how to
create a simple pipmak-project? Do you mean something like this?

>  From looking at the Pipmak numbered files, and reading the
> discussion of how the program works, it seems like there would be a
> relatively short learning curve in order to start breaking into
> Pipmak. [...]

Right. Games that don't need some special features are easily created.

> But as it is, for someone without a basic understanding of how to get
> started, one can't do anything. And none of the Lua sites (that I can
> find anyway) give a basic overview of any of this. All of them are
> aimed at people who are already programmers and are new to Lua only.

http://www.lua.org/
I see your problem. For the first steps in pipmak, you do not need to
know anything about lua at all. You only have to create images and
hotspot-maps. Like this you can already create a few panoramas, for
example a little island on which you can walk around. To create the
corresponding .lua-files, you only have to copy and modify some
statements. You can take the ones from the demo project of pipmak.
(Look at the end of this post.)

> What is needed is a basic step by step process that introduces first
> the new paradigm of writing programs on a mac and goes from there.
> ie. Does one have to install Lua for Mac on your machine first? If so
> how is that done? How does one see/work on/ "compile" (hard as it may
> seem to understand, to many many people, compiling is not a concept
> many people have any idea of) files? What is the "Console" program
> and how does it work - again there is no reference material on any of
> this anywhere I can find.

In order to create a pipmak-game (or project if you want), you do not
need to compile pipmak itself. Lua is linked statically into pipmak, so
you don't even have to install lua. Just download the newest build of
pipmak for the mac.

> As it is, all the documentation assumes a level of programming
> understanding beyond what I would assume many of the possible users
> of Pipmak have.

The main problem seems to be to find the information you need. 

> I only share this as I have talked to many people who might use
> Pipmak and become loyal users/developers/community members, if only
> they could find a little help with understanding what is basically a
> new paradigm. In general, most such people come from other
> disciplines, graphic experts/3d modellers, interactive fiction
> writers, etc.

Graphic experts and 3d modellers? Advice them immediately to use pipmak!
I hope to see a free, graphically fantastic game on pipmak! (Dreams ...
some become true.)

> If the goal is not for Pipmak to become a kind of middleware for a
> larger user base then I would understand not wanting to offer this
> help - though it would seem that is self-defeating, as those who
> already understand programming are inherently a group less in need of
> the program.

As I'm not the author of pipmak, I'm not saying anything about the
destination of pipmak. But for me it's like this: I have some
programming skills, but wouldn't be able to write my own "Myst"-engine
from scratch. Exactly such an engine is Pipmak. With Pipmak, I can
concentrate on the game and am not bothered with technical thigs like
OpenGL and protability. Unfortunately, I do not have much time at the
moment to develop my game. So progress is only made very slowly.

A simple pipmak-project:

main.lua looks like this:

  version (0.23)

  title "Pipmak simple project"
  startnode (1)

OK, node 1 is our first position in a virtual world.
Save all Images you need for this position in the folder 1.
In 1/node.lua write the following:

  cubic { "01.jpeg", "02.jpeg", "03.jpeg", "04.jpeg", "05.jpeg",
"06.jpeg" }

  hotspotmap "hotspots.png"

  hotspot { target = 2 }
  hotspot { target = 35 }

Do the same thing for every position (node). If you have done this, you
can already wolk around in your virtual world. How the images 01.jpg to
06.jpg and hotspots.png should look like should be described in the
documentation to pipmak. You dont have to compile anything, simply load
main.lua with pipmak!

Greetings
Urs

[Pipmak-Users] Basic Mac help

[Liam S. <Li...@fr...>]

As it seems Pipmak is aimed at people who are not serious game  
coders, is there any chance that someone could create some kind of  
documentation, even if it was just a page long, to tell people how to  
do basic stuff, like open the Pipmak Demo and see/use the code, for  
people who do not have a background in programming.

 From looking at the Pipmak numbered files, and reading the  
discussion of how the program works, it seems like there would be a  
relatively short learning curve in order to start breaking into  
Pipmak. Of course, real expertise and artful use would take longer  
and require more learning.

But as it is, for someone without a basic understanding of how to get  
started, one can't do anything. And none of the Lua sites (that I can  
find anyway) give a basic overview of any of this. All of them are  
aimed at people who are already programmers and are new to Lua only.

What is needed is a basic step by step process that introduces first  
the new paradigm of writing programs on a mac and goes from there.  
ie. Does one have to install Lua for Mac on your machine first? If so  
how is that done? How does one see/work on/ "compile" (hard as it may  
seem to understand, to many many people, compiling is not a concept  
many people have any idea of) files? What is the "Console" program  
and how does it work - again there is no reference material on any of  
this anywhere I can find.

As it is, all the documentation assumes a level of programming  
understanding beyond what I would assume many of the possible users  
of Pipmak have.

I only share this as I have talked to many people who might use  
Pipmak and become loyal users/developers/community members, if only  
they could find a little help with understanding what is basically a  
new paradigm. In general, most such people come from other  
disciplines, graphic experts/3d modellers, interactive fiction  
writers, etc.

If the goal is not for Pipmak to become a kind of middleware for a  
larger user base then I would understand not wanting to offer this  
help - though it would seem that is self-defeating, as those who  
already understand programming are inherently a group less in need of  
the program.

Good luck.

Liam

Liam Shannon
Creative Director
Fresh Cut Grass Advertising

22 Everett Street
Sherborn, MA 01770
(508)545-2125

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Pipmak 0.2.3 released

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

hOSHI wrote:
> - interactive inventory items (or item examining functions)
> - animated background objects (as 3D Objects, not video)
> - maybe machine-parts to interact with

You might be better off using a full-3D engine (such as Blender's) for 
such things. After all, nothing stops you from putting 6 big textures on 
a cube to make a panoramic background there (I hope).

  -Christian

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Pipmak 0.2.3 released

[hOSHI <ho...@ga...>]

hi,
I thought of many things to use 3D-Objects, for example:

- interactive inventory items (or item examining functions)
- animated background objects (as 3D Objects, not video)
- maybe machine-parts to interact with
- ...

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Pipmak 0.2.3 released

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

hOSHI wrote:
> is it possible (for future releases maybe) to use 3D-Geometry (maybe 
> 3ds-file) as overlay elements?

I see no fundamental reason against it, but I haven't spent much thought 
on it. IMHO, there are much more important features to worry about at 
this time, so I'm not going to try implementing this anytime soon. But 
if you want to tackle it, or anyone else, I'll be happy to assist. How 
exactly would you imagine such a feature to be used, anyway?

  -Christian

[Pipmak-Users] Re: Pipmak 0.2.3 released

[hOSHI <ho...@ga...>]

Hey,
I just read about the overlay-nodes:
that sounds really great (and looks great as well)
now i am wondering:
is it possible (for future releases maybe) to use 3D-Geometry (maybe 
3ds-file) as overlay elements?

Greetings

hOSHI*

[Pipmak-Users] Re: sound

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

john wrote:
> hello I'm working on a game with the pipmak engine.
>  and I'm at a point where I need sound. 
> is there any way to add sound with pipmak.

There is no built-in sound support yet. There have been some ideas for 
preliminary workarounds, but they have their disadvantages too, and as 
far as I know no one has ever tried implementing them. It has been 
suggested by someone that the os.execute() Lua function could be used to 
run an external command-line sound player (such as the "playwave" or 
"playmus" examples from SDL_mixer). The "os" library is currently not 
activated in Pipmak (and I'd rather keep it that way for official 
releases), but that's a trivial change if you can compile Pipmak 
yourself. Another possibility may be using the loadlib() Lua function to 
load some self-written sound player library. This function is enabled in 
the latest Mac OS X release, I'm not sure about Linux and Windows. Both 
of these solutions have the disadvantage that they are platform-dependent.

  -Christian

[Pipmak-Users] sound

[john <see...@gm...>]

hello I'm working on a game with the pipmak engine.
 and I'm at a point where I need sound. 
is there any way to add sound with pipmak. 
I have little experience with coding I'm learning as I go. 

thank you for your time

[Pipmak-Users] Pipmak 0.2.3 released

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Pipmak 0.2.3 is out! This version introduces some major new features, 
most notably a new type of node (the "panel", some sort of "overlay 
window" that's fixed to the screen rather than the slide/panorama 
background), and the ability to display several nodes simultaneously, on 
top of each other.

This opens the way for things like inventories, picture frames, pop-up 
menus, and floating utility windows. See it in action in the updated 
demo project and read the details in the documentation.

Get Pipmak for Mac OS X (universal binary, now!), Windows, and Linux as 
well as the source code from 
<http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/downloads.php> or read the detailed 
release notes at 
<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=397990&group_id=112801>.

  -Christian

[Pipmak-Users] Need a programmer for our adventure game

[Quentin <qu...@im...>]

Our team is finishing up preproduction on an adventure game, and we are now 
starting to create in-game renders. We are searching for a game engine, and 
want to approximate the navigational experience of Myst III. Is there a 
programmer who is fluent in pipmak, who can make modifications (such as adding 
sound capability and handling inventory items, for example) who wishes to join 
a team already fullsteam into production? For more info, drop me an email or 
respond to this forum. Thanks!

[Pipmak-Users] Re: minimum requirements?

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

MixMondo wrote:
> I run a P 200mhz mmx,

That's probably not far from what I get in Qemu on my 867 MHz PPC G4...

> enhanced with a voodoo2

Do you know if you have hardware OpenGL rendering with that card?

> and only 32mb of RAM.

That's a bit on the low side. Pipmak currently reserves 20 MB for 
caching images (you could change that value, though, if you compile from 
source), and that isn't of much use if it ends up being done on the hard 
drive. However, I just tried it with 32 MB in Qemu (on Windows 98), and 
it went remarkably well - everything in the demo worked. Node loading 
took around 20 seconds, and with interpolation disabled (which also 
seems to disable perspective correction - looks freaky), I got about 1-2 
FPS in 640x480 - and that's with software rendering.

> I will try to run it and report the catast... eerr... the results.

Yes, please do - I'm interested!

  -Christian

[Pipmak-Users] Re: minimum requirements?

[MixMondo <mun...@ya...>]

Christian:
Thank you for your kind (and rapid) answer.
My conditions are a little extreme :oP.
I run a P 200mhz mmx, enhanced with a voodoo2 and only 32mb of RAM.
I will try to run it and report the catast... eerr... the results.

i know, i know... it's all under my responsability.

Thanks again and keep it up.

Mix.

[Pipmak-Users] Re: minimum requirements?

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

MixMondo wrote:
> I would like to know what are the hardware requirements needed to run Pipmak.

Hard to tell. Why don't you just try it?

It should run on just about any PC or Mac hardware in use today (it does 
on Mac OS X on my 266 MHz Powerbook from 1998 and on Windows 98 in 
Qemu), but to achieve usable frame rates, you need hardware OpenGL 
rendering (i.e. a 3D graphics card) and at least 16 MB of video memory 
(rough estimate).

What OS (and what kind of hardware) do you have in mind, anyway?

  -Christian

[Pipmak-Users] minimum requirements?

[MixMondo <mun...@ya...>]

Hi people. 
I would like to know what are the hardware requirements needed to run Pipmak.
thanks

Mix

[Pipmak-Users] Pipmak 0.2.2 released

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Pipmak 0.2.2 is here! Apart from a few smaller new features, a lot of 
small bug fixes, as well as some documentation additions, not much has 
changed for the user (hence the small version number increment).

A lot has happened under the hood, though. In a complete internal 
refactorization, the code was cleaned up, made more flexible and easier 
to maintain. This may also have introduced new bugs, which is why this 
release needs particularly intense testing.

As usual, Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux versions as well as the source 
code are available from <http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/downloads.php>, 
and detailed release notes can be found at 
<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=381044&group_id=112801>.

  -Christian

[Pipmak-Users] Re: pipmak on windows mobile 2003SE

[hOSHI <ho...@ga...>]

okay, it is not...
it's just left/right panarama pictures...
(and the game sucks) ^^;

hOSHI wrote:
> Okay, i understand that now. I just played ScummVM on my MDA and enjoyed 
>  it that much, playing an adventure on the phone.
> So I wondered about those myst-puzzlegames.
> 
> I think there is one for PocketPC already:
> Atlantis Redux. But I'm not sure if it is 360° 3D-Cube.
> 
> 
> 
> Christian Walther wrote:
> 
>> hOSHI wrote:
>>
>>> isn't there some kind of openGL-emulation maybe,
>>> or something like that?
>>
>>
>>
>> That's what I was talking about. It's of course possible to do OpenGL 
>> rendering in software (Mesa <http://www.mesa3d.org/> is a popular 
>> open-source implementation used on Linux, Mac OS X and Windows have 
>> their own software renderers, and I'm sure there are others). But for 
>> the simple kind of graphics Pipmak uses, going through a full-featured 
>> 3D renderer is much less efficient than what a specialized renderer 
>> could do. The only reason to use OpenGL for Pipmak is that with 
>> today's graphics hardware, the capability for fast OpenGL rendering is 
>> there, and making use of it is much simpler and faster than letting 
>> the GPU sit idle and doing the work on the already busy CPU (even 
>> though it could be done more efficiently there).
>>
>> Just try running Pipmak on a Mac or PC without (supported) 3D 
>> hardware: you'll see that it runs just fine, but it's very slow - much 
>> slower than e.g. QuickTime VR, which does its own software rendering.
>>
>>  -Christian
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by:
>> Power Architecture Resource Center: Free content, downloads, discussions,
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Power Architecture Resource Center: Free content, downloads, discussions,
> and more. http://solutions.newsforge.com/ibmarch.tmpl

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