pipmak-users — Content creation for the Pipmak Game Engine

Working on some tools for Blender and Pipmak

[rivenwanderer <riv...@ya...>]

I'm working on making some tools for getting Pipmak environments together as
quickly and easily as possible.  The first is a Blender Python script made
from the Panorama Maker tool at
http://www.alienhelpdesk.com/python_scripts/old_scripts .  The tool renders
panoramas for all selected cameras in a Blender scene, placing them into
node subfolders where the names are taken from the names of the camera
objects in Blender.

The standalone auto-handle-placer doodad (needs a better name ;) ) is being
written in Python for now.  It first takes a list of the names of the
cameras and the points where the cameras were.  Here's an example, where the
two cameras are named "1" and "2".

1:0.0,0.999999940395,4.0
2:0.0,0.999999940395,-10.0

This can be automatically exported from Blender with a simple script (which
I'm including in the batch pano tool for now), and hopefully from most other
3D programs also.  The coordinates should be like that in the diagram in
Fig. 2 (page 11) of the Pipmak reference.

Then it takes a file specifying which cameras are connected to which other
cameras, with the assumption that it's bidirectional.  For example, camera 1
connected to cameras 2, 3, and 4 would be represented as "1:2,3,4".

Then, for each camera, it computes the elevation and azimuth to all the
connected cameras and adds appropriate handles to the node.lua file in the
subdirectory with the same name as the camera (creating the node file if it
doesn't exist yet).  The tool won't check for overlapping handles or
anything, and not all handles will be exactly what one would want for a
game, but they can be adjusted later.

The two tools together should mean that I can take a modeled environment in
Blender and (1) place cameras in arbitrary locations where I want nodes to
be rendered from, (2) hit a button and wait for all panos to render, (3)
spend a couple minutes writing down which nodes connect to which, and (4)
run a script from the commandline, then be able to fully navigate the
project in Pipmak.  This streamlined process for the "normal" nodes (as
opposed to typing out the handles in every node.lua or editing hotspots with
a graphics program) should leave me with more time for working on the more
complex programming parts of my games.

I've got the Blender tool in a working (though still rough around the edges)
state, and am hoping to get the standalone tool working in the next few
days.  I'll be sure to post the python code (on the wiki? or would somewhere
else be preferred?) once they're in a state that's usable for people besides
just me.  I'm not at a point where I could write this stuff in Lua yet, but
hopefully the code will be readable enough for someone (me or someone else)
to port it for inclusion in the Pipmak editor someday :)
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Re: Pipmaze 0.2

[Aidan G. <wgs...@ih...>]

Christian Walther wrote:
> Aidan Gauland wrote:
>> You should be able to just put the file "cmd.rb" in the same  
>> directory as
>> "pipmaze.rb".
> 
> Right, that worked (the file was in /Library/Ruby/Gems/1.8/gems/ 
> cmd-0.7.2/lib/cmd.rb).
> 
> When I ran "ruby pipmaze.rb 15 12", it stopped because I don't have a  
> command-line version of POV-Ray installed. So I manually rendered the  
> images. Your maze.ini file doesn't include an image size, is that  
> intentional?

Yes, but on my installation of POV-Ray, it uses a default value in this case. 
  Did it not on yours?

> I used 512x512. Then I moved the partially-generated  
> Pipmak project out of the way and ran
>    Maze> yload maze.yaml
>    Maze> pipmak
> That produced a differently incomplete Pipmak project: the images were  
> there now, but all the node.lua and main.lua files were empty. I  
> combined the two projects into a working one by taking the "images"  
> folder from the second and the rest from the first.

That really weird.  I couldn't reproduce this (don't you just hate that? :( ). 
  I guess this one will have to remain mysterious, until someone can figure 
out what triggers this.

> Exploring the maze in Pipmak works well, only the exit mark is a bit  
> inconspicuous - I missed it on my first exhaustive way through the  
> maze, I only noticed it when I went straight there using the ASCII  
> map. Perhaps the exit node could be distinguished somehow in the POV- 
> Ray scene already, so that it is also recognizable from neighboring  
> nodes?

Ok, added that to the development repository.

> Your maze generation algorithm is good, it seems to generate more  
> straight passages and less one-unit-long dead-ends than in the totally  
> random mazes I used to get when I dabbled in maze generation algorithms.

Actually, I didn't come up with it myself, I just came up with the 
implementation.  I found the algorithm (written in pseudo-code) at...
http://www.mazeworks.com/mazegen/mazetut/index.htm

> Next step - more interesting walls than polished marble cuboids?  
> Hedges? Randomized wall heights so that you can see other parts of the  
> maze from some locations?

I'll have to think about this.  I like the idea of being able to see other 
parts of the maze from some locations, without being able to see how to get there.

Re: Pipmaze 0.2

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Aidan Gauland wrote:
> You should be able to just put the file "cmd.rb" in the same  
> directory as
> "pipmaze.rb".

Right, that worked (the file was in /Library/Ruby/Gems/1.8/gems/ 
cmd-0.7.2/lib/cmd.rb).

When I ran "ruby pipmaze.rb 15 12", it stopped because I don't have a  
command-line version of POV-Ray installed. So I manually rendered the  
images. Your maze.ini file doesn't include an image size, is that  
intentional? I used 512x512. Then I moved the partially-generated  
Pipmak project out of the way and ran
   Maze> yload maze.yaml
   Maze> pipmak
That produced a differently incomplete Pipmak project: the images were  
there now, but all the node.lua and main.lua files were empty. I  
combined the two projects into a working one by taking the "images"  
folder from the second and the rest from the first.

Exploring the maze in Pipmak works well, only the exit mark is a bit  
inconspicuous - I missed it on my first exhaustive way through the  
maze, I only noticed it when I went straight there using the ASCII  
map. Perhaps the exit node could be distinguished somehow in the POV- 
Ray scene already, so that it is also recognizable from neighboring  
nodes?

Your maze generation algorithm is good, it seems to generate more  
straight passages and less one-unit-long dead-ends than in the totally  
random mazes I used to get when I dabbled in maze generation algorithms.

Next step - more interesting walls than polished marble cuboids?  
Hedges? Randomized wall heights so that you can see other parts of the  
maze from some locations?

   -Christian

Re: Pipmaze 0.2

[Aidan G. <wgs...@ih...>]

You should be able to just put the file "cmd.rb" in the same directory as 
"pipmaze.rb".  Try this and let me know if you have any trouble.  I seem to 
remember reading somewhere that the Ruby install that Apple ships with 
Macintosh doesn't have the Readline library, and doesn't let you load C 
modules (so you can't just get Readline and install it yourself).

  -Aidan

Christian Walther wrote:
> For those like me who have never used Ruby, and are too busy to spend  
> the time to figure it out on their own at the moment, could you  
> explain how to install the prerequisite "cmd" package?
> 
>  From the URL you provided, I downloaded a file named "cmd-0.7.2.gem".  
> Unsure what to do with it, I discovered that there is a command-line  
> tool called "gem". I tried "gem install cmd", and it seemed to  
> download and install something, but trying to run Pipmaze still gives  
> me the same error as before:
> 
>    buia:~/Desktop/Incoming/pipmaze-0.2 cwalther$ ruby pipmaze.rb
>    Welcome to Pipmaze version 0.2
>    pipmaze.rb:31:in `require': no such file to load -- cmd (LoadError)
> 	from pipmaze.rb:31
> 
> I'm using Mac OS X 10.5.5 and the Ruby that comes with it (ruby 1.8.6  
> (2008-03-03 patchlevel 114) [universal-darwin9.0]).

Re: Pipmaze 0.2

[Aidan G. <wgs...@ih...>]

Andrea Viarengo wrote:
> It works also in Windows:
> 
> But, why you have used Ruby (which is a script language too) and not Lua?
> If the problem was only file writing, I have a pipmak addon to do that. 
> 
> I think should be simple integrate with autocubic, and dinamically
> generate nodes....

I didn't use Lua because I didn't want to integrate it with Pipmak, and I used 
Ruby because its object-oriented architecture made it very easy to organize 
the maze data (into objects).

Re: Pipmaze 0.2

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Aidan Gauland wrote:

>  I've just released Pipmaze 0.2

For those like me who have never used Ruby, and are too busy to spend  
the time to figure it out on their own at the moment, could you  
explain how to install the prerequisite "cmd" package?

 From the URL you provided, I downloaded a file named "cmd-0.7.2.gem".  
Unsure what to do with it, I discovered that there is a command-line  
tool called "gem". I tried "gem install cmd", and it seemed to  
download and install something, but trying to run Pipmaze still gives  
me the same error as before:

   buia:~/Desktop/Incoming/pipmaze-0.2 cwalther$ ruby pipmaze.rb
   Welcome to Pipmaze version 0.2
   pipmaze.rb:31:in `require': no such file to load -- cmd (LoadError)
	from pipmaze.rb:31

I'm using Mac OS X 10.5.5 and the Ruby that comes with it (ruby 1.8.6  
(2008-03-03 patchlevel 114) [universal-darwin9.0]).

  -Christian

Re: Pipmaze 0.2

[Andrea V. <and...@gm...>]

Nice works!

It works also in Windows:

http://rubyforge.org/frs/download.php/29263/ruby186-26.exe
http://rubyforge.org/frs/download.php/3940/cmd-0.7.2.gem
http://puzzle.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/pipmaze/pipmaze-0.2.tar.bz2

install ruby
unzip pipmaze-0.2.tar.bz2 into folder  "pipmaze-0.2"
copy cmd-0.7.2.gem to "pipmaze-0.2"

run cmd.exe 

C:\> cd ..../pipmaze-0.2
pipmaze-0.2> gem install cmd-0.7.2.gem

Successfully installed cmd, version 0.7.2
Installing ri documentation for cmd-0.7.2...
Installing RDoc documentation for cmd-0.7.2...

pipmaze-0.2> pipmaze.rb
Welcome to Pipmaze version 0.2
Maze> new 10 10
Maze> ascii
 _ _ _ _ _   _ _ _ _
|_   _ _ _ _  |   | |
|  _|  _ _  | | |_  |
|   | |_  |_ _|_| | |
|_| |_  | |  _    | |
|  _|  _ _|_  | |_| |
| |  _|  _ _ _|_ _ _|
| |_  | |_ _    |   |
|_  | |_ _ _ _| |_| |
|  _|_|  _ _ _ _|   |
|_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| |
Maze>

But, why you have used Ruby (which is a script language too) and not Lua?
If the problem was only file writing, I have a pipmak addon to do that. 

I think should be simple integrate with autocubic, and dinamically
generate nodes....

Bye 

Andrea

Re: Next Autocubic Project: first release...

[Andrea V. <and...@gm...>]

Aidan Gauland <wgsilkie <at> ihug.co.nz> writes:

> 
> Very nice!  Keep going. 
>

Thanks!!

> Could you please add an explanation of what the 
> buttons in the top right corner do? 

Well, I would like to add more esplanations and tutorials to create models
into the wiki, but time is always too short....!!

However,
starting from right to left:

first one: quit application, is usefull when you play at full screen.
second one: show/hide map (attention to NOTE in the wiki, about a bug)
third one: reload model map, it seems that does nothing, but if you modify
           models in the file map/demo.lua, you will see the changes only
           after you press this button.
fourth one: make walls transparent, I use it to see if hidden surface 
           algorithm works correctly...but in the demo I'm not implemented 
           yet (there was in the old version 0.0.8), so you always
           see the hidden walls...

Now I'm working to the models definition that will change completely,
because, now is quite impossible to create models....when I will finish, 
I put a guide into the wiki, so everyone could create their own easily.

After this I would like to modify model structure to permit creation of
simple objects (because now there are nothing into the rooms...)
like furniture, table, shelf, and so on.

Bye.

-Andrea

Pipmaze 0.2

[Aidan G. <wgs...@ih...>]

Hello,

  I've just released Pipmaze 0.2, and made a page on the Pipmak wiki:

http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Pipmaze_maze_generator

Any feedback (positive or negative) would be welcome.  I posted about this 
before, but without much explanation, and I think I just happened to pick a 
bad time :)

  -Aidan

Re: Next Autocubic Project: first release...

[Aidan G. <wgs...@ih...>]

Very nice!  Keep going.  Could you please add an explanation of what the 
buttons in the top right corner do?  I could only figure out the one with the 
X on it (which is pretty obvious ;) ).

Andrea Viarengo wrote:
> Hi to all,
> 
> If someone is interested, I have posted in the wiki a first release of 
> my Autocubic project using 3D patches.
> 
> It's in a very early stage, but all the space is navigable.
> 
> http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Library_autocubic.lua
> 
> Suggestions and critics are well accepted.

Re: Bug in r205

[Andrea V. <and...@gm...>]

> What triggered the crash that I fixed there was your call 
> "pipmak.overlaynode(2)" in main.lua, at a time when there's no 
> background node yet.

I had never thought!! I will try to meove this in the main node!

In any case, it seems that r209 works fine, I never get a crash with 
that release, also without the folder "Microsoft.VC80.CRT"...

Good works!! 
But now, read my test on new features on pipmak.devel. 

Bye 

Andrea  

Re: Bug in r205

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

I wrote:
> I'm still uncertain about the cause of the random reproducibility of the 
> crash, there might be another bug lurking there. Will investigate further.

Hmm, looks like it really only was the uninitialized variable. When I 
initialize it to a known invalid value, it crashes reliably.

Plus, it seems that r207 also took care of the ugly flash that happened 
when moving around with the map enabled (that was probably random memory 
being drawn instead of the cursor for one frame), which was one of the 
reasons I suspected another bug.

  -Christian

Re: Bug in r205

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Andrea Viarengo wrote:
> If I don't include them, Pipmak-r205 works exactly as Pipmak-0.2.7 and 
> crash in the same manner.

OK, how about r207?

What triggered the crash that I fixed there was your call 
"pipmak.overlaynode(2)" in main.lua, at a time when there's no 
background node yet.

That was fortunate insofar as it pointed us to this bug, but otherwise 
doing such things in main.lua is a bad idea. You shouldn't assume that 
main.lua is run exactly once when the project is opened. That's 
currently the case, but it may change in the future. Initialization 
procedures belong in onopenproject(). In a way, main.lua should be 
treated as a data file, not as a program, and running it should have no 
side effects.

Apart from that, overlaying a node when there's no background node yet 
doesn't make much sense to me, but as it happens to work the way you 
want (the real background node is later inserted under it), modulo 
undiscovered bugs, I decided to keep it allowed for the time being. But 
for my taste, the proper place for that would be onenternode() of the 
main node.

I'm still uncertain about the cause of the random reproducibility of the 
crash, there might be another bug lurking there. Will investigate further.

  -Christian

Re: Bug in r205

[NigeC <nig...@gm...>]

Andrea Viarengo wrote:
> 
> 
> P.S.: I think that my build doesn't work with VISTA...
> 
> 
> 
Nope it doesn't.. i think its that msvcr80 issue i had with previous ones

-----
http://nigecstudios.co.uk NigeC Studios 
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Re: Next Autocubic Project: first release...

[NigeC <nig...@gm...>]

I've tried pano's in a 3D engine and its not that easy, Pipmak does a lot
better job visual and control wise..
if your interested here's my attempt using Awakening scripted in lua, its a
short demo.
the big grumble was scary big file sizes as it used DDS textures and no real
directional control on re entry, but we came up with inventory and daliog
and control in about 2 weeks, realtime 3D is easy to do, atho the demo
doesn't have any in a cubic room
http://www.nigecstudios.co.uk/awakening/skull.zip
its also playable online under windows.. it does require a browser plugin
http://www.nigecstudios.co.uk/index.php?pid=5 

-----
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Bug in r205

[Andrea V. <and...@gm...>]

Chriss,

I have compiled r205, and problem seems disapear, but I fear that it depend 
on building/linking...

This is because I have included into pipmak folder also MSCV8 dll:

 Pipmak-r205.exe
 Pipmak-r205.exe.manifest
 Microsoft.VC80.CRT/Microsoft.VC80.CRT.manifest
 Microsoft.VC80.CRT/msvcr80.dll

In theory, since I have the development tool installed, I don't need to
include these files in the folder, because they are already installed 
in system folder by MSCV++ installer...

If I don't include them, Pipmak-r205 works exactly as Pipmak-0.2.7 and 
crash in the same manner.

If it can help you, You can found my build here:

http://andrea.viarengo.googlepages.com/Pipmak-r205-WXP.zip

Bye

-andrea

P.S.: I think that my build doesn't work with VISTA...

Re: Module system

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Andrea Viarengo wrote:
> yes, probably "named nodes" are a better solution...
> 
> A part the implementation, 
> I have understood you like the addition of modules/plugin in Pipmak, right?

Yes, that seems like a good idea. I have a rough plan in my head and 
will try to work it out once the "named nodes" thing is done. Speaking 
of which, I have a prototype working (in a backwards-compatible way) at 
this moment, but it still needs more rigorous testing, and updated 
documentation.

  -Christian

Re: Next Autocubic Project: first release...

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Andrea Viarengo wrote:
> So, do you want that I switch to another engine?

Not at all - this is your project, your choice.

In fact, seeing people use one's tools in ways one never imagined is a 
great experience for any developer and a significant part of my motivation.

I was just wondering - with Pipmak you get some things for free that 
you'd have to implement yourself in a 3D engine (panorama navigation, 
...) while for other things it's the other way around (depth sorting, 
fog, mipmapping, decent performance with large number of faces). I 
suspect that as you progress, you will encounter more and more of the 
latter points and less and less of the former. But if you're working on 
this with a "the journey is the reward" attitude (as I always do), it 
doesn't matter at all.

> Fixed in the update.

Looks great!

>> Does your request to have it on the showcase page still stand?
> 
> If you think that might be useful to demonstrate some features of pipmak,
> you can go forward, I will try to fix bugs..
> Forest generator code is simplest than autocubic code...

OK, will do!

> There are a bug in Pipmak 0.2.7 concerning overlay nodes....
> I haven't test this with last r205, so probably it could be already resolved,
> but it seem a different case from calling gotonode after closeover...
> 
> When you open the map using buttons in the upper right corner,
> and you move in the 3d space, your position (red point)
> in the map should change consequently (like a screen of a car navigator...)
> 
> To do this in a first time, I closed and reopened the overlay, but this make
> Pipmak crash, so I try to create a message "update" to the overlay...
> the handler of the message simply do a gotonode(overlaynode) which reload the
> node but it crash the same...
> 
> The strange thing is that this happen only running project using the 
> zipped one file style, but if you uncompress file .pipmak and run it from
> a folder, all things run correctly.... 
> 
> This is only a Windows problem?

I can reproduce this crash with Pipmak 0.2.7 (both with zipped and 
unzipped project), but haven't seen it with my current development 
version, so it might be fixed. Let me know if you still see it on r205 
(or 206, once that is committed).

  -Christian

Re: Module system (was: On screen text display high level method proposal)

[Andrea V. <and...@gm...>]

Christian Walther <cwalther <at> gmx.ch> writes:

> Even better solution: implement the "named nodes" request from 
> <http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Proposals>. When nodes are 
>   referred to by name rather than by number, each module can put its 
> nodes into its own subfolder.
> 
> I'm going to try this.

yes, probably "named nodes" are a better solution...

A part the implementation, 
I have understood you like the addition of modules/plugin in Pipmak, right?

-Andrea 

Re: Next Autocubic Project: first release...

[Andrea V. <and...@gm...>]

Hi, Christian,

> ....it would have been less work to do this in a real 3D engine.

So, do you want that I switch to another engine?
Well, I don't Known...I have to learn other tools,
(and probably not so simple as Pipmak....) and I haven't all that time...
I really spent few time to obtain something working....
(just one afternoon which I had little to do, to get the 
autocubic core working...)

So, for the moment not, because I like the clearness and 
the semplicity of Pipmak, and, in the while, 
I can give my small contribution to the development.

> 
> Random observations:
> 
> - The "transparent walls" button causes a crash, this is fixed in r205. 
> To make it work, I had to make these two additional changes:
> 

Well, thanks, the button "transparent walls" button come from old 
autocubic version, and I haven't do nothing to make it work...
Fixed in the update.

> 
> - The buttons panel does not stick to the top right corner when the 
> window is resized, but stays at a fixed distance from the top left. Is 
> this by design? If not, you can change it by replacing "absx = 0, absy = 
> 0" by "relx = 1, rely = 0". Is there a reason why you're making that 
> panel fill the whole (initial) window instead of just the size it needs?
> 	

I knew that problem, but I had not even thought of a solution .. 
I will try your fix.
The reason was that when I wrote that piece of code 
(at time of MyHouse Virtual Tour) I didn't known all the possibility
of Pipmak! 
Fixed in the update.


> - The fog seems very strong. Would reducing that have any undesirable 
> effects?

In the last demo there are a bug which draw fog twice...
apart from this, it 's possible control fog with these vars:

fog_dist_min      = 4   --  start draw fog at this distance
fog_dist_max      = 11  --  end draw fog at this distance
fog_level         = 0.5 --  transparency of single layer
fog_lum           = 0.9 --  0=black 1=white

Fixed in the update.

> 
> - Some walls of the big double-H-shaped tower are invisible from within. 
> Is that a bug in the code or just an omission in the model (does the 
> inside and outside of every wall need to be specified separately)?
>

Yes, it's true, this was a test, if you don't specify an inside texture 
(parameter "i") the walls disapear if you go inside...
but it can useful if you create building which you know that you will not
ever enter into

In the update you cannot pass through the walls
(but you still fly over using arrows...)

I have update the map, and now you can go inside double-H tower, 
from the top there is a nice sight over all area!!  

The big problem of autocubic "engine" is the number of patches and the 
number of images...I'm trying several method to reduce this number...

For example if I substitute getimage with newimage the elaboration time 
increases greatly....., 

I need newimage to cut windows and doors holes, these patches aren't 
cached by pipmak and consume time and memory....
now I have create a second image-cache managed from lua, 
to reuse that images and I get a nice speed up...
 
> - Along the southern border of the road area, a sidewalk edge is missing 
> between road and grass (road and grass are at different heights, but 
> without a step in between).
> 

Yes, yes... there are some missing parts...

I have to completely change the way to create objects, because for the 
moment it's very hard create model....
I want to add the possibility to naming some part (for example an house)
and relocate and re-orient as I want without the need to rewrite the 
model in another position....
I will put a complete description to how create models in the wiki,
So everyone could create their own models and we could start an 
autocubic contest!!!

> While I'm at it, some comments about your Random Forest Generator, which 
> is quite impressive as well (you didn't ask for criticism there, but 
> you'll get it anyway):
> 
> - Sometimes you have several trees at the same point, and because the 
> depth sort isn't stable, changing the sun angle or fog level will bring 
> one or the other to the foreground.
>

Yes, it's true, the initial idea was to have only one tree for box,
I have to modify it...
 
> - You can see the ceiling of the sky box because the top pixel row of 
> each of the side images is slightly brightened (this is in autocubic too).
>
I will try to correct pictures!
 
> Does your request to have it on the showcase page still stand?

If you think that might be useful to demonstrate some features of pipmak,
you can go forward, I will try to fix bugs..
Forest generator code is simplest than autocubic code...


There are a bug in Pipmak 0.2.7 concerning overlay nodes....
I haven't test this with last r205, so probably it could be already resolved,
but it seem a different case from calling gotonode after closeover...

When you open the map using buttons in the upper right corner,
and you move in the 3d space, your position (red point)
in the map should change consequently (like a screen of a car navigator...)

To do this in a first time, I closed and reopened the overlay, but this make
Pipmak crash, so I try to create a message "update" to the overlay...
the handler of the message simply do a gotonode(overlaynode) which reload the
node but it crash the same...

The strange thing is that this happen only running project using the 
zipped one file style, but if you uncompress file .pipmak and run it from
a folder, all things run correctly.... 

This is only a Windows problem?

Bye 

Andrea

Re: Next Autocubic Project: first release...

[NigeC <nig...@gm...>]

I do wonder, however, if you've already crossed the point 
beyond which it would have been less work to do this in a real 3D engine

I have to agree, but saying that the overall effect looks stunning, nice
work..
An easy solution for the sky would be to limit the angle of view up, a human
wouldn't natually look straight up anyway



-----
http://nigecstudios.co.uk NigeC Studios 
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Re: Module system (was: On screen text display high level method proposal)

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

I wrote:
> The first approach to this problem that comes to my mind is to provide 
> some function by which modules can register their nodes with Pipmak and 
> get back a unique (negative) node number, which they then assign to a 
> name within the module to make it available to users. Pipmak would keep 
> an internal table of these nodes and would direct accesses by node 
> number to the correct path.

Even better solution: implement the "named nodes" request from 
<http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Proposals>. When nodes are 
  referred to by name rather than by number, each module can put its 
nodes into its own subfolder.

I'm going to try this.

  -Christian

Re: Next Autocubic Project: first release...

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Andrea Viarengo wrote:
> http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Library_autocubic.lua

Very cool! You continue to amaze me with what you manage to get out of 
Pipmak... (I do wonder, however, if you've already crossed the point 
beyond which it would have been less work to do this in a real 3D engine.)

Random observations:

- The "transparent walls" button causes a crash, this is fixed in r205. 
To make it work, I had to make these two additional changes:

diff -ur ac20demo-original.pipmak/1/node.lua ac20demo.pipmak/1/node.lua
--- ac20demo-original.pipmak/1/node.lua	2008-10-07 17:33:16 +0200
+++ ac20demo.pipmak/1/node.lua	2008-10-12 10:39:22 +0200
@@ -56,7 +56,7 @@
  mapy=11
  max_alpha=0.5

-wall_trasparent=false
+--wall_trasparent=false
  --wall_trasparent=true

  show_grid=true
diff -ur ac20demo-original.pipmak/2/node.lua ac20demo.pipmak/2/node.lua
--- ac20demo-original.pipmak/2/node.lua	2008-09-30 12:11:12 +0200
+++ ac20demo.pipmak/2/node.lua	2008-10-12 10:04:21 +0200
@@ -76,6 +76,6 @@
         over_handle:closeoverlay()
         pipmak.overlaynode(over_node)
         pipmak.dissolve(1,0)
-       pipmak.gotonode(autocubic.pano_node)
+       pipmak.gotonode(autocubic.pano_node, true)
       end
  }

- The buttons panel does not stick to the top right corner when the 
window is resized, but stays at a fixed distance from the top left. Is 
this by design? If not, you can change it by replacing "absx = 0, absy = 
0" by "relx = 1, rely = 0". Is there a reason why you're making that 
panel fill the whole (initial) window instead of just the size it needs?

- The fog seems very strong. Would reducing that have any undesirable 
effects?

- Some walls of the big double-H-shaped tower are invisible from within. 
Is that a bug in the code or just an omission in the model (does the 
inside and outside of every wall need to be specified separately)?

- Along the southern border of the road area, a sidewalk edge is missing 
between road and grass (road and grass are at different heights, but 
without a step in between).


While I'm at it, some comments about your Random Forest Generator, which 
is quite impressive as well (you didn't ask for criticism there, but 
you'll get it anyway):

- Sometimes you have several trees at the same point, and because the 
depth sort isn't stable, changing the sun angle or fog level will bring 
one or the other to the foreground.

- You can see the ceiling of the sky box because the top pixel row of 
each of the side images is slightly brightened (this is in autocubic too).

Does your request to have it on the showcase page still stand?


  -Christian

Next Autocubic Project: first release...

[Andrea V. <and...@gm...>]

Hi to all,

If someone is interested, I have posted in the wiki a first release of 
my Autocubic project using 3D patches.

It's in a very early stage, but all the space is navigable.

http://pipmak.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Library_autocubic.lua

Suggestions and critics are well accepted.

Andrea

Re: On screen text display high level method proposal

[Christian W. <cwa...@gm...>]

Andrea Viarengo wrote:
> I think that at this point, we have to make some thought about a
> more sophisticated library/plugin system to make Pipmak more modular...
> 
> For example, what are you thinking about this:
> 
> a folder called lib or plugin or something like at the level of pipmak.exe
> inside the folder we put files with extension .pipmaklib
> which are .zip renamed like "Pipmak Resource" 
> 
> each pipmaklib file have an own default.lua and own nodes and resources,
> 
> On open project, pipmak scans the folder and load every 
> default.lua inside the pipmaklib files and load new pipmaklib functions
> that use own nodes and resources included into .pipmaklib files

I don't feel comfortable about loading everything from the start. That 
could introduce namespace collisions, and loading plugins that are not 
going to be used is a waste of resources. What about requiring project 
authors to state what plugins they need using some kind of "require" or 
"import" command?

When designing such a system, we should also take care to make it 
compatible with the package/module system of Lua 5.1, so we don't have 
to redesign everything once we switch to Lua 5.1 with Pipmak 0.3 
(probably Lua will be at 5.7 by that time...). Description at 
<http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#5.3> and 
<http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/pil2/chapter15.pdf>, for the reference.

> There only a missing function: pipmak.getos() or pipmak.getplatform()
> which return a string describing the host operating system 
> {"osx","linux","win"}, so I can load the correct library
> DLL for windows or .so for OSX or Linux;

Wouldn't it be simpler and less error-prone to just try loading one 
after the other of the platform-specific binaries until you find one 
that fits? Can you think of a constellation in which that would give 
incorrect results?

> To resolve the issue about library nodes which can have the same number, 
> I believe that we should introduce the concept of "nodespace"
> there are a nodespace of the project (which own nodes)
> and other nodespaces for each pipmaklib
> lua file of the project or into "Pipmak Resources" have as default
> nodespace that of the project ("../" "/" or something) ,
> lua file inside pipmaklib have as default nodespace of the library 
> ("nameofthelib").
> If I don't want use the default I could change it with 
> pipmak.setnodespace(ns) (like an unix cd) or retrive the 
> current nodespace with pipmak.getnodespace() (like unix pwd),
> in this way I could have project and pipmaklib package with nodes numbered 
> with the same number...

I'm having trouble seeing how this would work, but maybe my mind is just 
too far removed from Pipmak and Lua at this time... in a C Lua function 
within the Pipmak core (like pipmak.getimage), how do you tell whether 
the call came from a library or from the project?

The first approach to this problem that comes to my mind is to provide 
some function by which modules can register their nodes with Pipmak and 
get back a unique (negative) node number, which they then assign to a 
name within the module to make it available to users. Pipmak would keep 
an internal table of these nodes and would direct accesses by node 
number to the correct path.

  -Christian