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Re: [Gaim-devel] troubles with invisible/ghost mode vs. gaim

[Michael R. H. <bu...@su...>]

On Sat, 2007-03-24 at 18:48 -0500, Mark Doliner wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:39:20 -0400, Michael R. Head wrote
> > My friend likes to use invisible/host mode in AIM (he's using the
> > official AOL client), but when he does this, I can see his messages,=20
> > but I can't respond to his messages or see that he's online.
> >=20
> > When I go invisible in gaim, and I initiate a conversation with him,=20
> > he is able to respond and doesn't see me as offline.
> >=20
> > Is this expected behavior? I'm using 2.0.0beta6 as packaged in Ubuntu
> > feisty.
>=20
> No, that's not the expected behavior.  When someone is invisible, you sho=
uld
> be able to IM them, but they will not show up as online.  When you are
> invisible you should show up as offline to everyone.
>=20
> Do you get an error message when you try to IM him?

I'll have to try again, but I recall that it said he was offline and
stored the message as a buddy pounce because when he IMed my second
account (which opened a new tab), gaim immediately sent all my past
messages to him in that tab.

> -Mark
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>=20
--=20
Michael R. Head <bu...@su...>
http://www.suppressingfire.org/~burner/
http://suppressingfire.livejournal.com

Re: [Gaim-devel] troubles with invisible/ghost mode vs. gaim

[Mark D. <ma...@ki...>]

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:39:20 -0400, Michael R. Head wrote
> My friend likes to use invisible/host mode in AIM (he's using the
> official AOL client), but when he does this, I can see his messages, 
> but I can't respond to his messages or see that he's online.
> 
> When I go invisible in gaim, and I initiate a conversation with him, 
> he is able to respond and doesn't see me as offline.
> 
> Is this expected behavior? I'm using 2.0.0beta6 as packaged in Ubuntu
> feisty.

No, that's not the expected behavior.  When someone is invisible, you should
be able to IM them, but they will not show up as online.  When you are
invisible you should show up as offline to everyone.

Do you get an error message when you try to IM him?

-Mark

Re: [Gaim-devel] Student Developer

[Eric P. <al...@gm...>]

I just submitted my application to the GSoC.  It's call Gaim-Text Improvements.

On 3/16/07, Sean Egan <sea...@gm...> wrote:
> On 3/16/07, Eric Polino <al...@gm...> wrote:
> > ok...i've been looking for a bit, and i'm getting discouraged.  where
> > can i find the code for gaim text.  i checked out the entire svn tree
> > for gaim, where do i find it?  or is it in another project.
>
> console/
>
> -s.
>


-- 
"Every man dies, not every man really lives."
  --- William Wallace

Re: [Gaim-devel] gaim-vv support

[Salvatore B. <em...@gm...>]

I just finished talking with the guys from farsight. They said they are
willing to help
me with the project if it gets accepted. Most of the complexity is already
handled
by farsight and there is also some code that implements msn webcam.

On 3/18/07, Ethan Blanton <ebl...@cs...> wrote:
>
> Salvatore Benedetto spake unto us the following wisdom:
> > I do understand that is probably complex to implement, and definetely
> > not an easy task. I also understand that students that apply for such
> > as project might not have enough knowledge to design on their own the
> > API needed, but why not taking in consideration valid students, that
> > are willing to work all summer (and maybe more), locked in their room
> > (as somebody said in the channel ;-) ) , on this project? Maybe not on
> > the whole thing, but the project I think could be modularized, so that
> > students could produce useful code by the end of the summer. I don't
> > think it would be a totally waisting of time.
>
> I don't think anyone is saying that Gaim-vv would not be *considered*
> as a SoC project.  However, experience tells us that any but the most
> prepared and organized student is not likely to be successful in this
> topic, and we want students to be successful.  Due to this experience,
> a proposal to work on gaim-vv type topics would have to stand out as a
> powerful application that really showed that the student knew the
> scope of the project he/she was getting into, and had some plan for
> how to tackle it.
>
> In other words, the application bar is simply higher.  This isn't
> because we think it's a bad idea, but because we know it's a hard
> problem.  As you said, clearly defining a subset of the problem and
> presenting a plan for resolving that subset is probably a good tactic
> to take, if your heart is really set on -vv functionality.
>
> Ethan
>
> --
> The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
> for evils].  They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
> determined to commit crimes.
>                 -- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFF/XHXr9kA9Ig8HBQRAq+tAJ9utBQejkCrmv+3sIKBD/xZdjk1BACfQnOi
> 6oMqSZpQt17F4Ns/F3BUol0=
> =PaUf
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
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> _______________________________________________
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>
>


-- 
Salvatore Benedetto (a.k.a. emitrax)
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University of Messina (Italy)
www.messinalug.org

skype:emitrax
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[Gaim-devel] Serverless Instant Messenger for Filesharing like Waste

[<tho...@gm...>]

Hi, a second serverless Instant Messenger (a kind of a Waste.sf.net network) next to www.cspace.in is out, this one has enhanced filesharing capabilities and is working on to get Turtle F2F Hopping (gnutella-giFT) implemented, which is really anonymous and secure for downloading.

http://retroshare.sf.net

Have a look and test the network.
-tom
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Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Andrew S. <an...@en...>]

Phil Hannent wrote:
> Its kind of interesting that I have never heard anyone complain about
> Firefox or IE's file download box which works in a similar way, you
> can navigate to a page and a download dialogue box opens up which is
> similar to Gaims practice.

Web browsers don't send you to download a file when you're not expecting
to download one.  When you click a link, the box appears; this differs
from IM, where you can be sent something while you're not paying
attention to Gaim at all.

> Maybe what is required is like firefox's download statusbar plugin:
> http://downloadstatusbar.mozdev.org/

Something generally like this -- i.e. not inline -- would be better than
having it inline.  The official MSN client always annoyed me when
someone sent me two files: "argh, it moved".

Perhaps something like the buddy authorisation box, stacking up along
the side of the chat window?  That way you have consistency in UI.

Andrew Sidwell

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Phil H. <ph...@ha...>]

Andy wrote:
> Okay mock ups are in order as a picture is worth a thousand words an
> all... So as not to spam the list with files go here to see a mock up of
> what I'm proposing  http://users.on.net/~c0pkf48/Mockup.png
Thanks for the image.  I just wanted to give my tuppence worth.

Displaying the message inline is fine except that it can move.  If you are sent
a message like this, you take a moment to find your mouse, move to click the
accept and the sender sends a message asking you to hurry up and it moves from
under you.

It reminds me of the old HTML scrolling banner or blink tags, great for normal
people but awful for partially sighted or slow at reading.

Its kind of interesting that I have never heard anyone complain about Firefox or
IE's file download box which works in a similar way, you can navigate to a page
and a download dialogue box opens up which is similar to Gaims practice.

Maybe what is required is like firefox's download statusbar plugin:
http://downloadstatusbar.mozdev.org/

Just a thought.

Regards
Phil Hannent

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remotefile transfer requests

[David B. <Dav...@he...>]

My 10 cents :
=20
dislike :
 - new trayicon for an incoming file transfer : don't spam the systray, =
it is full of icons as it is;
 I saw people having over 10 icons there. They would hardly notice an =
appearing file transfer icon ;-)
 - popping up dialogs. That steal focus.
 - popping up 10 dialogs for the more or less same content (like 10 =
incoming files)
=20
=20
like:
 - reuse existing conversation window:
  - no new icons/dialogs, that could be "lost" etc...
  - if the conversation window has focus, then the notification problem =
does not exist
  - if the conversation window has no focus, then it should be handled =
the same way as a new message
     on Windows , that means the windows icon on the task bar will flash =
and be colored, until the user clicks it,
     no focus stealing, no jump-in-your-face; I repeat: this is already =
implemented
  - the information can be displayed in the message pane as already =
proposed, or
  - the information can be displayed in a toolbar/line especially for =
that(look for GUI design ideas below)
=20
Possible file transfer bar look:
User1 is offering file "Vacation.jpg*" [Accept][Deny][Details]
=20
* - do not hide parts of the filename ! like the last 4 characters ;-)=20
=20
The [Details] button could open the file transfer dialog for more =
options.
=20
Regards and keep it simple,
David

Re: [Gaim-devel] Fwd: console cygwin

[Kevin M S. <ke...@si...>]

Mark Doliner wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:15:52 -0600, Eduardo Osorio wrote
>> hi i tried to compile gaim to be used under cygwin console
>>
>> i try
>>
>> ../configure --disable-gtkui --disable-perl
>>
>> i downloaded the code from trunk
>>
>> when i do make
>>  i  got
>>
>> if /bin/sh ../libtool --silent --tag=3DCC --mode=3Dcompile gcc -DHAVE_=
CONFIG_H
>> -I. -I. -I..  -DBR_PTHREADS=3D0 -DDATADIR .....
>>         then mv -f ".deps/network.Tpo" ".deps/network.Plo"; else rm -
>> f ".deps/network.Tpo"; exit 1; fi network.c:29:20: resolv.h: No such=20
>> file or directory network.c:31:26: arpa/nameser.h: No such file or dir=
ectory
>> make[3]: *** [network.lo] Error 1
>> make[3]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/eduardo/prog/cpp/gaim/gaim/lib=
gaim'
>> make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
>> make[2]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/eduardo/prog/cpp/gaim/gaim/lib=
gaim'
>> make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
>> make[1]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/eduardo/prog/cpp/gaim/gaim'
>> make: *** [all] Error 2
>>
>> i understant that in the includes are not the path to theses files
>> i searched throught the cygwing packages list (
>> http://cygwin.com/cgi-bin2/package-grep.cgi?grep=3Dresolv.h) and found=
=20
>> that only the src cygwin/cygwin-1.5.24-1-src<http://cygwin.com/cgi-
>> bin2/package-cat.cgi?file=3Dcygwin%2Fcygwin-1.5.24-1-src&grep=3Dresolv=
=2Eh>got
>> it
>=20
> Please see the instructions at http://gaim.sourceforge.net/win32/build.=
php for
> compiling Gaim in Windows.  Mostly, don't run configure and use "make -=
f
> makefile.mingw"
>=20

Actually, if you look at the configure line he called, he's trying to
get a copy of gaim-text.  The short answer is that gaim-text is not
supported on cygwin or Win32 at all.  I believe that Daniel got it to
compile, but that he could not get it to run satisfactorily.

Gaim can't be compiled on cygwin most likely without a patch since our
#ifdef _WIN32 blocks adjust the code to work under a specialized Win32
build environment we have authored, not the cygwin unix compatibility
layer.  Some of those #ifdefs probably need to be reversed in order to
make the software compatible with cygwin.  There is most likely another
define which can be used to detect cygwin and apply appropriate changes
to the code, but I'm not sure what it is off hand.

Kevin

Re: [Gaim-devel] ICQ oscar protocol differences

[Mark D. <ma...@ki...>]

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 23:58:43 +0100, ageorgo wrote
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to use Gaim as my primary ICQ client but I discovered 
> some issues related to the oscar protocol features. I have several 
> people in my contact list that did not authorized me - i chat with 
> them daily. If I use Miranda client on windows, or some other linux 
> client (e.g., centericq, kopete, sim) I can see also  status of 
> unauthorized buddies. Unfortunately in Gaim, they are shown as "Non 
> Authorized" and behave like other off-line buddies.
> 
> I did some "research" in the communication and source code and 
> probably found out the reason. The other clients send somewhere 
> within the logon phase the SNAC(03,04) CLI_BUDDYLIST_ADD command 
> with UINs of the users. ??I think this command was previously used 
> for client side contact list?? Unfortunately if I just put this 
> command (with real UIN of course) in oscar.c:
> 
>  3590:  aim_buddylist_addbuddy(od, conn, "123456789");
>  3591:  aim_clientready(od, conn);
> 
> In return I get only the: SNAC Error: Incorrect SNAC format (0x000e)
> . I went trough my tcpdumps, but the command CLI_BUDDYLIST_ADD seems 
> to be sent alright so I do not know where is the real problem. My 
> idea is that it has something with configured (negotiated) 
> capabilities of the protocol but maybe I am completely wrong. Maybe 
> someone knows the solution or can give me an advice.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Georgo

Your suspicion is correct that SNAC(03, 04) was previously used for client
side contact lists.  I think AOL wants clients to use either the client-side
contact lists or the server-side contact lists, but not both (I could be
wrong).  Gaim currently uses the server-side contact lists (the feedbag/ssi
family).  Seeing the status of people you're not supposed to be authorized to
see isn't really something Gaim should be doing.

-Mark

Re: [Gaim-devel] Away message request

[Mark D. <ma...@ki...>]

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:31:48 +0100, Tim Huetz wrote
> I have a really stupid question: I want to extend a gaim plugin with
> some features (just for myself [and if its good enough also for the
> public]). I'm searching for some days for the part in the source 
> code of the oscar protocol which handles a away message request. I 
> mean, if another ICQ user opens a new conversation the default ICQ 
> client will request the away message of the user. Now, my question 
> is where gaim handles this request. In which source file / function 
> I have to search. It would be really great, if you can answer me 
> this question. Thanks a lot.

For ICQ?  I guess the call stack is something like
libgaim/server.c:serv_get_info
libgaim/protocols/oscar/oscar.c:oscar_get_info
libgaim/protocols/oscar/family_icq.c:aim_icq_getallinfo

That's for Gaim 2.0.0 beta 6.  And it might not actually work... this is one
of the features of ICQ that Gaim doesn't support very well.

-Mark

Re: [Gaim-devel] tracing

[Adil <ad...@ya...>]

--- Eric Polino <al...@gm...> wrote:

> i'm trying to trace gaim-text to see how it's initialization takes
> place.  i am unable to find where the accounts get activated.  is
> there a document somewhere that explains the basic flow, there are
> just too many functions to trace.

The 'enable'ness of an account is determined by the setting named
'auto-login' for an account. It's a ui-setting, ie. it can have different
values for different ui's. When libgaim is initialized, it loads the
accounts and its settings. So an account is 'enabled' (or not) right when
it's loaded from accounts.xml. Then it's 'activated' by either
gaim_accounts_restore_current_statuses or gaim_savedstatus_activate (and
only if it is 'enabled').

Sadrul

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Re: [Gaim-devel] Fwd: console cygwin

[Mark D. <ma...@ki...>]

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:15:52 -0600, Eduardo Osorio wrote
> hi i tried to compile gaim to be used under cygwin console
> 
> i try
> 
> ../configure --disable-gtkui --disable-perl
> 
> i downloaded the code from trunk
> 
> when i do make
>  i  got
> 
> if /bin/sh ../libtool --silent --tag=CC --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H
> -I. -I. -I..  -DBR_PTHREADS=0 -DDATADIR .....
>         then mv -f ".deps/network.Tpo" ".deps/network.Plo"; else rm -
> f ".deps/network.Tpo"; exit 1; fi network.c:29:20: resolv.h: No such 
> file or directory network.c:31:26: arpa/nameser.h: No such file or directory
> make[3]: *** [network.lo] Error 1
> make[3]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/eduardo/prog/cpp/gaim/gaim/libgaim'
> make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> make[2]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/eduardo/prog/cpp/gaim/gaim/libgaim'
> make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/eduardo/prog/cpp/gaim/gaim'
> make: *** [all] Error 2
> 
> i understant that in the includes are not the path to theses files
> i searched throught the cygwing packages list (
> http://cygwin.com/cgi-bin2/package-grep.cgi?grep=resolv.h) and found 
> that only the src cygwin/cygwin-1.5.24-1-src<http://cygwin.com/cgi-
> bin2/package-cat.cgi?file=cygwin%2Fcygwin-1.5.24-1-src&grep=resolv.h>got
> it

Please see the instructions at http://gaim.sourceforge.net/win32/build.php for
compiling Gaim in Windows.  Mostly, don't run configure and use "make -f
makefile.mingw"

-Mark

[Gaim-devel] tracing

[Eric P. <al...@gm...>]

i'm trying to trace gaim-text to see how it's initialization takes
place.  i am unable to find where the accounts get activated.  is
there a document somewhere that explains the basic flow, there are
just too many functions to trace.

-- 
"Every man dies, not every man really lives."
  --- William Wallace

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...>]

Andy spake unto us the following wisdom:
> Not completely without merit ;) but if said window pops up behind a
> window the user is using (another application) we still have the problem
> of ignored file transfers. Unless this is implemented with both the
> option to turn on a sound event and a flashing tray icon.

Again, the popping up behind a window with no notification from the
window manager is an environment problem.  We really shouldn't be
fixing things like that in Gaim.

Ethan

--=20
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
for evils].  They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
determined to commit crimes.
		-- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764

[Gaim-devel] Fwd: console cygwin

[Eduardo O. <edu...@gm...>]

hi i tried to compile gaim to be used under cygwin console

i try

./configure --disable-gtkui --disable-perl


i downloaded the code from trunk

when i do make
 i  got

if /bin/sh ../libtool --silent --tag=CC --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H
-I. -I. -I..  -DBR_PTHREADS=0 -DDATADIR .....
        then mv -f ".deps/network.Tpo" ".deps/network.Plo"; else rm -f
".deps/network.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
network.c:29:20: resolv.h: No such file or directory
network.c:31:26: arpa/nameser.h: No such file or directory
make[3]: *** [network.lo] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/eduardo/prog/cpp/gaim/gaim/libgaim'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/eduardo/prog/cpp/gaim/gaim/libgaim'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/eduardo/prog/cpp/gaim/gaim'
make: *** [all] Error 2


i understant that in the includes are not the path to theses files
i searched throught the cygwing packages list (
http://cygwin.com/cgi-bin2/package-grep.cgi?grep=resolv.h) and found that
only the src cygwin/cygwin-1.5.24-1-src<http://cygwin.com/cgi-bin2/package-cat.cgi?file=cygwin%2Fcygwin-1.5.24-1-src&grep=resolv.h>got
it


so maybe someone could help to make my day

thanks everyone

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Andy <spi...@in...>]

On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 20:52 -0400, Etan S. C. Reisner wrote:
> I think that going the original ICQ client route of creating a whole bunch
> of emblems for different events and sticking them all on the docklet icon
> is rather bad route to take and that the current 'icon flashes on new
> messages' is more than enough, adding other things is just going to get
> complicated.

Not an incredibly important feature, but I based this suggestion on
existing behaviour I just noticed this morning.
If gaim has a message for me it flashes a plain tray icon, if there's a
new conversation waiting for a tab to open it seems to flash the icon
with an envelope emblem on it.


> I *hate* this idea (no offense to you Andy) 
LOTS taken - I slaved over a hot GIMP for seconds to make that! lol ;)

> it is an immense abuse of the
> conversation window to my mind. The linkifying of urls is one thing,
> because that is purely the simplifying of the normal copy and paste action
> for links (and to be honest, personally if I could turn it off I probably
> would) but this idea completely changes the idea of what is involved in a
> conversation, what clickable items in conversations can do, etc.
That's probably down to personal taste. I like to keep stuff simple
also.

> Not to mention that I happen to think the mockup looks terrible, but
> that's entirely a side point.
Okay now you're just getting personal ;) It's just a rough mock up lol


> Adding a menutray icon for a pending file transfer on the other hand is
> not a particularly bad idea, if subtle and only sort of helpful.
I'd be equally as happy with that. I only suggested a combination of;
 1. the tray icon.
 2. the sound prompt
 3. the in window accept/reject dialogue
;to cover all bases as some users do not have a tray in which to display
an icon. I only recently added one to my Gnome panel. Previous to that I
was quite a tray Luddite. But the little flashy man in Gaim has turned
me. 

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Richard L. <rl...@wi...>]

On Fri, 2007-03-23 at 11:37 +1030, Andy wrote:
> Not completely without merit ;) but if said window pops up behind a
> window the user is using (another application) we still have the problem
> of ignored file transfers. Unless this is implemented with both the
> option to turn on a sound event and a flashing tray icon.

I think both together would work, which seems consistent with other
changes we've made. If we get consensus on that, would you be willing to
whip up a patch?

Richard

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Andy <spi...@in...>]

On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 21:25 -0300, Stephen Eilert wrote:
> On 3/22/07, Ethan Blanton <ebl...@cs...> wrote:

> I've just had an idea (brace yourselves!).
> 
> An occasional file transfer popup shouldn't really bother anyone. So,
> I believe the problem is with clients that let an user drag and drop
> multiple files to the conversation window, in effect sending multiple
> file transfer requests at once (MSN, I'm looking at you) . It is
> already annoying to have to hit a hotkey multiple times, but not
> nearly as bad as having multiple dialogs spawning.
> 
> However, Gaim already has the perfect dialog for multiple file
> transfers: the file transfer dialog itself. So, if any dialogs are to
> be spawned, it should be that dialog. Perhaps, with an added "Status"
> column and appropriate "Accept/Decline" buttons. Flashing the file
> transfer dialog and/or using the notification area icon should be
> enough to warn the user. If not, then add a file transfer request
> sound (see: ICQ).
> 
> I believe this helps with the multiple rogue popups, without the ugly
> hack of creating a conversation window(if not open already) just to
> host the file transfer.
> 
> What do you guys think?

Not completely without merit ;) but if said window pops up behind a
window the user is using (another application) we still have the problem
of ignored file transfers. Unless this is implemented with both the
option to turn on a sound event and a flashing tray icon.

But yes, that is a much more elegant position than loads of requesters.
In fact a colleague, not 10 minutes ago, sent me 5 files via IM and I
had to hunt down 5 requesters and  confirm each separately. It would be
easier to handle them if they were all in the same window.

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Stephen E. <spe...@gm...>]

On 3/22/07, Ethan Blanton <ebl...@cs...> wrote:
> Andy spake unto us the following wisdom:
> > Look I don't want to be diverted by strawman arguments. My original post
> > was about an usability issue that others have supported. So can we keep
> > on topic?
>
> Both of those replies were on topic.  So was the other reply I sent to
> your message.  A reply that does not support your point is not
> off-topic.
>
> The fact that Gaim is not a GNOME app, or a KDE app, or a Windows app,
> or whatever, is in fact important; it means that if we identify a
> behavior in an environment which we believe is a flaw in the
> environment itself, we don't necessarily deal with it within Gaim.  In
> this case, there may be a usability issue that we want to deal with,
> but it needs to be separated from any substandard environment-specific
> concerns.
>
> Ethan

I've just had an idea (brace yourselves!).

An occasional file transfer popup shouldn't really bother anyone. So,
I believe the problem is with clients that let an user drag and drop
multiple files to the conversation window, in effect sending multiple
file transfer requests at once (MSN, I'm looking at you) . It is
already annoying to have to hit a hotkey multiple times, but not
nearly as bad as having multiple dialogs spawning.

However, Gaim already has the perfect dialog for multiple file
transfers: the file transfer dialog itself. So, if any dialogs are to
be spawned, it should be that dialog. Perhaps, with an added "Status"
column and appropriate "Accept/Decline" buttons. Flashing the file
transfer dialog and/or using the notification area icon should be
enough to warn the user. If not, then add a file transfer request
sound (see: ICQ).

I believe this helps with the multiple rogue popups, without the ugly
hack of creating a conversation window(if not open already) just to
host the file transfer.

What do you guys think?


Stephen

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Stephen E. <spe...@gm...>]

On 3/22/07, Ethan Blanton <ebl...@cs...> wrote:
> Andy spake unto us the following wisdom:
> > As Stephen Elilert mentioned, this is apparently already a feature of
> > some other IM clients. From your objections, I'm unsure if you
> > understand my proposal. I'm suggesting that popups be abandoned
> > altogether. In their place any file transfer requests be written to the
> > conversation window with a button (or clickable text) for the user to
> > accept the transfer. Along with tray icon and audio notification
> > options. - In exactly the same way an incoming message is handled. So
> > the ability is already in code, it just needs to be moved to the
> > conversation window.
>
> We are unconcerned about "some other IM clients".  While they may be a
> source of inspiration, "SomeMessenger does it!" is not a motivation.

It is not. However, it is useful to have something to compare against,
or examples. Taking a look at those other IM programs (sadly, only
under win32 afaik) might help others to better understand the proposed
feature.

Also, you don't need to implement said feature to do an usability test.

>
> That said, this does not sound like an unreasonable way to handle file
> transfer requests.  There are, however, some questions:
>
> 1) What do you do when you do not have a conversation open with a
>    user?

"Prior art": Conversation windows are created, usually. Probably not
the optimal way to do it.

> 2) I personally tend to ignore new messages most of the time, until I
>    am ready to deal with them.  I don't get file transfers, so I don't
>    have a good feeling about this, but do people tend to expect to be
>    notified of these in a relatively short period of time?  (I would
>    suspect yes, since inattention leads to failed transfers.) Does
>    this mean some additional notification would be in order.

I've seen clients (can't remember which) that allow you to auto-accept
files. This is already in Gaim, with the auto-accept plugin. It is the
workaround I'm going to use right now.


> 3) We currently don't really allow a way to modify existing text; this
>    probably would have to change, if the conversation became more
>    dialog-like.  What should this be like?

I believe the idea is something like:

"<Buddy> wants to send you <filename>. Accept or Reject?"

With the appropriate links/hotkeys/buttons, etc.


Stephen

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Andy <spi...@in...>]

All my suggestions bar one are based on current gaim behaviour. 

> 1) What do you do when you do not have a conversation open with a
>    user?

What currently happens if you have the option "Preferences/ Hide new IM
conversations / Always" turned on. Is instead of a new window popping up
when a new message comes in, gaim makes a sound (if you've set one) and
flashes the tray icon with a little envelope emblem on it. If you then
click on that tray icon it opens the new window with the message or adds
a new tab to the current window if you have one open already depending
on your preferences.

I suggest the same behaviour for incoming files, with possibly a
different emblem on it (a document emblem perhaps?)


> 2) I personally tend to ignore new messages most of the time, until I
>    am ready to deal with them.  I don't get file transfers, so I don't
>    have a good feeling about this, but do people tend to expect to be
>    notified of these in a relatively short period of time?  (I would
>    suspect yes, since inattention leads to failed transfers.) Does
>    this mean some additional notification would be in order.

Me also, that's why I have the annoyances set off. I get a sound and a
flashing tray icon then I deal with it in my own time. File transfers do
time out. I don't believe that additional notification is needed other
than the ability to set a different sound and the different tray icon
emblem I mentioned above.

3) We currently don't really allow a way to modify existing text; this
   probably would have to change, if the conversation became more
   dialog-like.  What should this be like?

Okay mock ups are in order as a picture is worth a thousand words an
all... So as not to spam the list with files go here to see a mock up of
what I'm proposing  http://users.on.net/~c0pkf48/Mockup.png

This is what I'd consider the "easy" route as it uses aspects of the
interface that are already there. That is, conversation text and URL
style text.

The other route would be to write some widgets to the bottom of the
window somehow.

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...>]

Andy spake unto us the following wisdom:
> Look I don't want to be diverted by strawman arguments. My original post
> was about an usability issue that others have supported. So can we keep
> on topic?

Both of those replies were on topic.  So was the other reply I sent to
your message.  A reply that does not support your point is not
off-topic.

The fact that Gaim is not a GNOME app, or a KDE app, or a Windows app,
or whatever, is in fact important; it means that if we identify a
behavior in an environment which we believe is a flaw in the
environment itself, we don't necessarily deal with it within Gaim.  In
this case, there may be a usability issue that we want to deal with,
but it needs to be separated from any substandard environment-specific
concerns.

Ethan

--=20
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
for evils].  They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
determined to commit crimes.
		-- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...>]

Andy spake unto us the following wisdom:
> As Stephen Elilert mentioned, this is apparently already a feature of
> some other IM clients. From your objections, I'm unsure if you
> understand my proposal. I'm suggesting that popups be abandoned
> altogether. In their place any file transfer requests be written to the
> conversation window with a button (or clickable text) for the user to
> accept the transfer. Along with tray icon and audio notification
> options. - In exactly the same way an incoming message is handled. So
> the ability is already in code, it just needs to be moved to the
> conversation window.

We are unconcerned about "some other IM clients".  While they may be a
source of inspiration, "SomeMessenger does it!" is not a motivation.

That said, this does not sound like an unreasonable way to handle file
transfer requests.  There are, however, some questions:

1) What do you do when you do not have a conversation open with a
   user?
2) I personally tend to ignore new messages most of the time, until I
   am ready to deal with them.  I don't get file transfers, so I don't
   have a good feeling about this, but do people tend to expect to be
   notified of these in a relatively short period of time?  (I would
   suspect yes, since inattention leads to failed transfers.) Does
   this mean some additional notification would be in order.
3) We currently don't really allow a way to modify existing text; this
   probably would have to change, if the conversation became more
   dialog-like.  What should this be like?

Ethan

--=20
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy
for evils].  They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor
determined to commit crimes.
		-- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764

Re: [Gaim-devel] Usability issue and suggestion: remote file transfer requests

[Andy <spi...@in...>]

Richard Laager wrote:
> > The thing is, gaim is a Gnome app
No, it's not.

Ethan Blanton wrote:
> Gaim is not, and never has been, a Gnome application.

Okay, nitpickig aside. Yes gaim isn't specifically a Gnome app. Yes it's
just written with GTK. But to quote the gaim website "Gaim integrates
well with GNOME 2 and KDE 3.1's system tray, as well as Windows's own
system tray. This allows you to work with Gaim without requiring the
buddy list window to be up at all times." This was the thrust of my
comment. We should be looking at making gaim the best experience on any
desktop. Neither Gnome, KDE or Windows have a useful way to handle popup
requesters, at least Gnome has addressed the accidental dismissing of
requesters by typing.

Look I don't want to be diverted by strawman arguments. My original post
was about an usability issue that others have supported. So can we keep
on topic?