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From: Evan S. <ev...@dr...> - 2006-05-03 16:11:41
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On May 3, 2006, at 12:06 PM, Ethan Blanton wrote: > Isn't there already some guy who has a largely working MSNP?? > implementation? Is this an appropriate SoC application topic? > > Ethan My understanding is that 1) The effort is pretty much stalled... though on the other hand, I know that some random user on the Adium forums had it working for the only feature of MSNP11 a lot of folks care about, which is the 'personal messages' which add status message support to MSN. His patch was ugly, though, and then his boss screamed at him for working on GPL code and now he won't answer emails asking for the source even though he released a binary including it. *shrug* 2) The code is for MSNP11, which isn't the same as the current version, MSNP13 3) We were going to make one of the criteria for the project be that the new implementation should have modern MSN file transfer -Evan |
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From: Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...> - 2006-05-03 16:07:13
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Isn't there already some guy who has a largely working MSNP?? implementation? Is this an appropriate SoC application topic? Ethan --=20 The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764 |
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From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2006-05-01 16:54:21
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On 5/1/06, Luke Schierer <lsc...@us...> wrote: > There are a number of QQ for gaim plugins out there for various > versions of gaim. The problem with ALL of them is that they include > files (notably a binary data file) blatently ripped out of the > official client. This is not acceptable from a GPL standpoint. The > authors can't copyright a file they pulled out of the official > client, and thus we cannot release it under the GPL. If I recall, the file is a some geolocation data stored in some obscure binary format. I believe we had determined that the actual data in the file was uncopyrightable, and that it would suffice to write a script that converted it to XML and installed that in /usr/share or some such. -s. |
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From: Evan S. <ev...@dr...> - 2006-05-01 16:09:14
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Luke, On May 1, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Luke Schierer wrote: > Your SoC student would have to implement QQ without using this file > or any implementation of QQ that is or derives from decompiled > binaries. Last year we rejected QQ as a project because of the > difficulty of ensuring this when we know that people have been > working on QQ and gaim with no concern for copyright. Thanks for the heads up. I'll let the student know that he'll need to avoid all such libraries. -Evan |
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From: Luke S. <lsc...@us...> - 2006-05-01 15:54:33
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On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 11:37:08AM -0400, Evan Schoenberg wrote: > > On May 1, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Ethan Blanton wrote: > > >Evan Schoenberg spake unto us the following wisdom: > >>I've got a student who wants to add QQ support this summer to Adium. > >>I've suggested that getting Gaim approval and adding it to Gaim will > >>be the best route. I'd be milling to mentor the dude. Shall I > >>suggest he write a proposal and submit to Gaim rather than Adium? > >>Alternately, how would you feel about a project under the Adium > >>umbrella adding an acceptable prpl to Gaim? > > > >Either one of these courses seem fine to me. I have no problem with > >code working its way upstream from Adium, be it either through SoC or > >otherwise. :-) > > Cool. I've told the student to submit a strong proposal to both > Adium and Gaim (and that it can be substantively the same > application) -- that'll give us flexibility once all the apps are in > to decide where best to accept it [if we do] given mentor > responsibilities, number of other student projects, etc. > > -Evan > There are a number of QQ for gaim plugins out there for various versions of gaim. The problem with ALL of them is that they include files (notably a binary data file) blatently ripped out of the official client. This is not acceptable from a GPL standpoint. The authors can't copyright a file they pulled out of the official client, and thus we cannot release it under the GPL. Your SoC student would have to implement QQ without using this file or any implementation of QQ that is or derives from decompiled binaries. Last year we rejected QQ as a project because of the difficulty of ensuring this when we know that people have been working on QQ and gaim with no concern for copyright. luke |
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From: Evan S. <ev...@dr...> - 2006-05-01 15:37:34
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On May 1, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Ethan Blanton wrote: > Evan Schoenberg spake unto us the following wisdom: >> I've got a student who wants to add QQ support this summer to Adium. >> I've suggested that getting Gaim approval and adding it to Gaim will >> be the best route. I'd be milling to mentor the dude. Shall I >> suggest he write a proposal and submit to Gaim rather than Adium? >> Alternately, how would you feel about a project under the Adium >> umbrella adding an acceptable prpl to Gaim? > > Either one of these courses seem fine to me. I have no problem with > code working its way upstream from Adium, be it either through SoC or > otherwise. :-) Cool. I've told the student to submit a strong proposal to both Adium and Gaim (and that it can be substantively the same application) -- that'll give us flexibility once all the apps are in to decide where best to accept it [if we do] given mentor responsibilities, number of other student projects, etc. -Evan |
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From: Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...> - 2006-05-01 15:04:25
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Evan Schoenberg spake unto us the following wisdom: > I've got a student who wants to add QQ support this summer to Adium. =20 > I've suggested that getting Gaim approval and adding it to Gaim will =20 > be the best route. I'd be milling to mentor the dude. Shall I =20 > suggest he write a proposal and submit to Gaim rather than Adium? =20 > Alternately, how would you feel about a project under the Adium =20 > umbrella adding an acceptable prpl to Gaim? Either one of these courses seem fine to me. I have no problem with code working its way upstream from Adium, be it either through SoC or otherwise. :-) Ethan --=20 The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764 |
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From: Evan S. <ev...@dr...> - 2006-05-01 14:24:16
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Guys, I've got a student who wants to add QQ support this summer to Adium. I've suggested that getting Gaim approval and adding it to Gaim will be the best route. I'd be milling to mentor the dude. Shall I suggest he write a proposal and submit to Gaim rather than Adium? Alternately, how would you feel about a project under the Adium umbrella adding an acceptable prpl to Gaim? -Evan |
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From: Luke S. <lsc...@us...> - 2006-04-29 13:08:45
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On Sat, Apr 29, 2006 at 04:19:30AM -0500, Richard Laager wrote: > On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 19:15 -0400, Evan Schoenberg wrote: > > On Apr 28, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Sean Egan wrote: > > - Would it be appropriate for a student to take what's done so far > > on the MSNp11 stuff, finish it, integrate it into Gaim, and perhaps > > integrate further improvements (such as modern MSN file transfer)? > > The latter would probably be the 'primary work' of the project > > proposal, since the student is supposed to do something new, I believe. > > If I understood things correctly, it was decided last year that MSN file > transfer wasn't enough to justify a spot, since it's already implemented > in other clients and just needs to be written for Gaim. However, adding > in MSNP11 is an interesting twist... > > I had thought about suggesting MSNP11, but the problem I had with that > idea is that MSN 8.0 is in beta. It uses MSNP13 or some such. If we were > going to have an SoC student work on something, it should probably be > that. > > I suppose they could sign up for the beta if Microsoft is still taking > users there. Then they could implement MSNP13 for Gaim and if time > permitted, MSN P2P file transfer as well. > > Perhaps we'd end up with everything #ifdef'ed to the PROTOCOL_VERSION or > something like that. Then, when MSNP13 becomes available for everyone, > we could just switch the #define. > > Having offline messaging, status messages, and P2P file transfer in MSN > would definitely be nice. > > Richard If Richard and/or nosnilmot are willing to mentor this one, I think it would make a good SoC project. It would provide some much needed man power to get that work completed, and for once not to be playing catchup to Microsoft's newest version. luke |
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From: Richard L. <rl...@wi...> - 2006-04-29 09:19:37
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On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 19:15 -0400, Evan Schoenberg wrote: > On Apr 28, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Sean Egan wrote: > - Would it be appropriate for a student to take what's done so far > on the MSNp11 stuff, finish it, integrate it into Gaim, and perhaps > integrate further improvements (such as modern MSN file transfer)? > The latter would probably be the 'primary work' of the project > proposal, since the student is supposed to do something new, I believe. If I understood things correctly, it was decided last year that MSN file transfer wasn't enough to justify a spot, since it's already implemented in other clients and just needs to be written for Gaim. However, adding in MSNP11 is an interesting twist... I had thought about suggesting MSNP11, but the problem I had with that idea is that MSN 8.0 is in beta. It uses MSNP13 or some such. If we were going to have an SoC student work on something, it should probably be that. I suppose they could sign up for the beta if Microsoft is still taking users there. Then they could implement MSNP13 for Gaim and if time permitted, MSN P2P file transfer as well. Perhaps we'd end up with everything #ifdef'ed to the PROTOCOL_VERSION or something like that. Then, when MSNP13 becomes available for everyone, we could just switch the #define. Having offline messaging, status messages, and P2P file transfer in MSN would definitely be nice. Richard |
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From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2006-04-29 00:34:12
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On 4/28/06, Evan Schoenberg <ev...@dr...> wrote: > I remember this being an issue a long time ago, and then (from the > perspective of a complete outsider at the time) it seems to > disappear. Has the beast reawoken, did it never really disappear, or > did some new Incident prompt further action by AOL? The first time this was an issue was way back before it was even called Gaim, but called "GTK+ AOL Instant Messenger." Nobody used Gaim back then, so nobody ever heard about this. Mark renamed it "Gaim," and AOL was appeased. Later, they trademarked "AIM," and started referring to themselves as "AIM," rather than just AOL Instant Messenger. A few years passed, and they complained about AIM. This is when Mark sought out help, and it went to Slashdot. Since then, we've had several sets of lawyers, who all recommend against discussing any of this publically, which is why everyone thinks it's gone away. It stays within the cabal. The current status is that our lawyers have requested that AOL come up with a list of everything they might object to us doing, with the goal of settling the issue out-of-court, where we'd change our name in exchange for getting a carte blanche on reverse engineering their protocol and enabling people to connect without using their software. > > This morning, I suggested "Cohort." Please tell me you have some > > ideas. > Cohort's pretty good. What about "Prosody"? Eh. Better names have been suggested. > > Oh, and we've decided libgaim will be renamed libpurple. > I propose we rename it to a symbol which can not be represented in > UTF-8 and insist on textual reference;s being "the library formerly > known as libgaim". Let's do this for Gaim... and then we'll know we've made it when our symbol makes it into Unicode. > Fascinating. What prompted this development? I note you didn't name > it the Gaim Corporation or such; is that just because of the > potential name change or do you intend to reach beyond the existing > project with it? Something similar should probably done for Adium at > some point... It was a combination of two things: a) Right now, AOL isn't threatening to sue Gaim, but to sue me. That's scary. When I step down, AOL will try to sue my successor, and none of what I accomplished will hold over. The goal of imfreedom is to reduce the liability to individual Gaim developers. Additionally, people have been wanting to donate money to us forever, and we've always declined, as we don't have any means to collect this money, other than an individual collecting the money, paying tax on it, being trusted with it, etc. This way we can actually take the money and not pay tax on it, and have it owned specifically by Gaim. Last year's summer of code was the direct cause of us doing this. We wanted to accept the $7,500, but didn't want to pay a third of it to the IRS, so we've used some of that to found the corporation and then put the rest of it in the bank. The first thing we plan to spend it on is to hire a graphic designer to revamp some of Gaim's icons. I've been talking with three such designers so far. The lawyers recommended that we keep the name as neutral as possible, in case we have to change names. Seeing as Adium falls under the category of Instant Messaging Freedom, if you guys would like to organize with us at all, at least for the purpose of taking your SoC money without tax, you should let me know, and we can discuss it. > > Wanna mentor for Gaim projects as well? > I'd be happy to mentor if a project came in that I'd be qualified to > mentor for... I've got good familiarity with most of Gaim's code > base, and with the overall structure, but I'm hardly an expert in any > particular area. I'll go ahead and request to be a mentor, and we'll > play it by ear when applications come in. Sound good? I accepted you. |
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From: Evan S. <ev...@dr...> - 2006-04-28 23:16:05
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On Apr 28, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Sean Egan wrote: > Name change - AOL has been threatening to sue us (well... Mark > Spencer, and then me) since as long as Gaim's existed for trademark > infringement. I remember this being an issue a long time ago, and then (from the perspective of a complete outsider at the time) it seems to disappear. Has the beast reawoken, did it never really disappear, or did some new Incident prompt further action by AOL? > This morning, I suggested "Cohort." Please tell me you have some > ideas. Cohort's pretty good. What about "Prosody"? > Oh, and we've decided libgaim will be renamed libpurple. I propose we rename it to a symbol which can not be represented in UTF-8 and insist on textual references being "the library formerly known as libgaim". > Corporation - the same lawyers have helped me set up a Delaware > corporation, the Instant Messaging Freedom Corporation, dedicated to > Gaim. We have a bank account, and money, and we will be filling for > tax-exempt status and all that jazz. Fascinating. What prompted this development? I note you didn't name it the Gaim Corporation or such; is that just because of the potential name change or do you intend to reach beyond the existing project with it? Something similar should probably done for Adium at some point... > Summer of Code - Have any ideas? Don't have any great ideas off-hand... - Mark already mentioned improvements to the privacy API as an SoC idea, which was going to be on my list of things to suggest. - I've suggested this already as an Adium project, in its own library, so we'd want to talk about it if an application came in on both Adium and Gaim: Implement file transfer in the Bonjour prpl. (Adium currently uses libezv, a Bonjour protocol library by Andrew Wellington, rather than the nascent libgaim Bonjour prpl. My guess is that implementation in one would make a port to the other reasonably easy, since right now there's simply no documentation on it that I'm aware of...) - Would it be appropriate for a student to take what's done so far on the MSNp11 stuff, finish it, integrate it into Gaim, and perhaps integrate further improvements (such as modern MSN file transfer)? The latter would probably be the 'primary work' of the project proposal, since the student is supposed to do something new, I believe. > Wanna mentor for Gaim projects as well? I'd be happy to mentor if a project came in that I'd be qualified to mentor for... I've got good familiarity with most of Gaim's code base, and with the overall structure, but I'm hardly an expert in any particular area. I'll go ahead and request to be a mentor, and we'll play it by ear when applications come in. Sound good? Cheers, Evan |
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From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2006-04-28 22:45:59
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Evan wasn't in the cabal before. Now he is. A quick overview of the current topics of discussion: Name change - AOL has been threatening to sue us (well... Mark Spencer, and then me) since as long as Gaim's existed for trademark infringement. I have lawyers who have been representing Gaim's interest against AOL. We have not yet decided to change our name, but the lawyers recommend we come up with something just in case we are required to. We have had an absolute terrible time doing this, and we've been going back and forth for months. The only one we've actually liked so far is "Grapevine," but the lawyers did some research and decided it we couldn't use it. This morning, I suggested "Cohort." Please tell me you have some ideas. Oh, and we've decided libgaim will be renamed libpurple. Corporation - the same lawyers have helped me set up a Delaware corporation, the Instant Messaging Freedom Corporation, dedicated to Gaim. We have a bank account, and money, and we will be filling for tax-exempt status and all that jazz. Summer of Code - Have any ideas? Wanna mentor for Gaim projects as well? -s. |
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From: Ethan B. <ebl...@cs...> - 2006-04-28 22:26:31
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Warren Togami spake unto us the following wisdom: > Have we considered "Zaphod" as a name? > Trillian is the girl from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. > Zaphod is that crazy guy with two heads. A bit wacky. Yeah, because we *really* want to be associated with Trillian ... we might as well call it "Zaphod's Beret in the Door" and combine the three crappiest software references we can think of. Ethan --=20 The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws [that have no remedy for evils]. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. -- Cesare Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishments", 1764 |
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From: Warren T. <wt...@re...> - 2006-04-28 19:03:50
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Luke Schierer wrote: > On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 09:32:47AM -0700, Sean Egan wrote: >> On 4/27/06, Richard Laager <rl...@wi...> wrote: >>> Thinking of grapevine the other day... Has "Orchard" been suggested? >> The name "Cohort" came to me in a dream. I kinda like it. >> >> -s. > > "Cohort" isn't a bad name. we'd use a group of gaim dudes as the > logo. > Asked around our creative department. Everyone thought it was a good name... but they pointed out: http://cohort.com/ CoHort Software Graphics and Statistics Software for Scientists and Engineers This probably makes this a non-starter, unless you manage to get permission from this company. http://cohort.org/ Some domain squatter... Have we considered "Zaphod" as a name? Trillian is the girl from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Zaphod is that crazy guy with two heads. A bit wacky. Warren Togami wt...@re... |
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From: Luke S. <lsc...@us...> - 2006-04-28 17:21:42
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On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 09:32:47AM -0700, Sean Egan wrote: > On 4/27/06, Richard Laager <rl...@wi...> wrote: > >Thinking of grapevine the other day... Has "Orchard" been suggested? > > The name "Cohort" came to me in a dream. I kinda like it. > > -s. "Cohort" isn't a bad name. we'd use a group of gaim dudes as the logo. luke |
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From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2006-04-28 16:32:55
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On 4/27/06, Richard Laager <rl...@wi...> wrote: > Thinking of grapevine the other day... Has "Orchard" been suggested? The name "Cohort" came to me in a dream. I kinda like it. -s. |
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From: Richard L. <rl...@wi...> - 2006-04-28 06:10:47
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Thinking of grapevine the other day... Has "Orchard" been suggested? Richard |
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From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2006-04-27 20:47:49
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That URL again is http://code.google.com/soc/mentor_step1.html On 4/27/06, Sean Egan <sea...@gm...> wrote: > Hey guys, > > Right now we have 5 people signed up. It sounds like people think two > students per mentor would be good, so that will give us 10 students > this summer. > > If you want to be a mentor, and haven't signed up, now would be a good ti= me. > > -s. > |
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From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2006-04-27 20:16:22
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Hey guys, Right now we have 5 people signed up. It sounds like people think two students per mentor would be good, so that will give us 10 students this summer. If you want to be a mentor, and haven't signed up, now would be a good time= . -s. |
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From: Richard L. <rl...@wi...> - 2006-04-24 15:58:04
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Here's another idea I had: Write NSIS translation file support for intltool and convert our NSIS stuff to use that. In this way, our Windows installer translations could be managed as part of the .po files. This would make things easier to work with and would almost surely increase the number/quality of translations for our installer. The output of this project would need to be merged into intltool to be useful, so perhaps it's a better project for the intltool people. This would be useful to at least Gaim and GIMP, and also to other OSS apps that want to us NSIS on Windows. Richard |
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From: Sean E. <sea...@gm...> - 2006-04-14 20:34:50
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SoC has launched. Mentors can sign up at http://code.google.com/soc/mentor_step1.html -s. On 4/14/06, Richard Laager <rl...@wi...> wrote: > On Thu, 2006-04-13 at 15:50 -0700, Sean Egan wrote: > > How many projects do we want to take on? Last summer we had 5 mentors > > with about 3 students each. I think 3 was a good number. Who's > > interested in mentoring? > > I'm interested in mentoring. > > As a project suggestion... Log Management (and Searching) > > I recently installed Beagle, a desktop search engine for GNOME. Among > other things, they index Gaim logs. Our log searching currently has a > number of flaws and users have asked for more features with "log > management". I was thinking it might be nice to overhaul the log > searching/management in Gaim. > > >From a technical standpoint, I'm imagining an architecture that would > offload some of the searching functions to the loggers themselves. This > way, if someone (my co-worker is a little interested in doing it) writes > a SQL logger, we could offload the text searching to the database, > rather than pulling all of the text across the network and searching it > ourselves (which is what would happen now). > > Additionally then, we could have a (possibly auto-loading?) plugin that > would use libbeagle when it's available. In this way, users with Beagle > would get faster searching and possibly more features. If you didn't > have Beagle installed, we could fall back to searching the files > ourselves. > > Richard > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting langua= ge > that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webc= ast > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territor= y! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat= =3D121642 > _______________________________________________ > Gaim-cabal mailing list > Gai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gaim-cabal > |
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From: Richard L. <rl...@wi...> - 2006-04-14 16:59:19
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On Thu, 2006-04-13 at 15:50 -0700, Sean Egan wrote: > How many projects do we want to take on? Last summer we had 5 mentors > with about 3 students each. I think 3 was a good number. Who's > interested in mentoring? I'm interested in mentoring. As a project suggestion... Log Management (and Searching) I recently installed Beagle, a desktop search engine for GNOME. Among other things, they index Gaim logs. Our log searching currently has a number of flaws and users have asked for more features with "log management". I was thinking it might be nice to overhaul the log searching/management in Gaim. >From a technical standpoint, I'm imagining an architecture that would offload some of the searching functions to the loggers themselves. This way, if someone (my co-worker is a little interested in doing it) writes a SQL logger, we could offload the text searching to the database, rather than pulling all of the text across the network and searching it ourselves (which is what would happen now). Additionally then, we could have a (possibly auto-loading?) plugin that would use libbeagle when it's available. In this way, users with Beagle would get faster searching and possibly more features. If you didn't have Beagle installed, we could fall back to searching the files ourselves. Richard |
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From: Warren T. <wt...@re...> - 2006-04-14 15:07:46
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SoC project: Think of a name that doesn't suck. Judgement Criteria: Quality of work, not quantity. (OK, not feasible... but a nice idea.) Warren |
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From: Nathan W. <fac...@fa...> - 2006-04-14 15:04:53
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Despite going 0 for 2 last year, I'll give it another whirl this year. I could take 1 or 2. 3 would definitely be pushing the limits of my time= =2E -Nathan Sean Egan wrote: > How many projects do we want to take on? Last summer we had 5 mentors > with about 3 students each. I think 3 was a good number. Who's > interested in mentoring? >=20 > -s. >=20 > On 4/10/06, Richard Laager <rl...@wi...> wrote: >> On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 15:28 -0400, Luke Schierer wrote: >>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 11:46:42AM -0700, Sean Egan wrote: >>>> side-note: >>>> Google Summer Of Code 2006 starts tomorrow. Start thinking of sugges= tions. >>>> >>> The one thing that comes to mind off hand is our pitiful support for >>> privacy. >> I'd like to second this. This is one of our biggest flaws at the momen= t. >> >> I have a ton of little tasks. It'd be nice if someone would apply to b= e >> a "Gaim janitor" (similar to the "kernel janitor" project). It'd might= >> be hard to spec something like this out, though. >> >> Richard >> >> >> >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting lang= uage > that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live we= bcast > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territ= ory! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Gaim-cabal mailing list > Gai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gaim-cabal |