phpwiki-talk

[Phpwiki-talk] Apache Rewrite

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

Offtopic question, but for phpwiki:

This
RewriteEngine On
RewriteRule	^/wiki$	        /home/rurban/acadwiki-1.3.1pre/index.php
RewriteRule	^/wiki/(.+)$	/home/rurban/acadwiki-1.3.1pre/index.php/$1

for example converts /wiki/FrontPage to <path>/frontpage on Apache 3.14,
Win32.
Is this only on Win32?
I hate lowercased pages.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] tables again

[Steve W. <sw...@wc...>]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Aredridel wrote:

> I'd say that tables should always have a small, tasteful border: reason
> being to avoid people using them as layout controls, and instead, use 'em as
> tabular data only.

I agree with Ari here. Tables are for tabular data. A Wiki is for
hypertext.

~swain

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Re: [Phpwiki-talk] images

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

> Thomas Kalka schrieb:
> How about taking the fancy table formatting ( i mean < ^ > ) to pictures ?
> [<pic.png] text floates at right i.e. picture is going to the left side
> [>pic.png] text floates at left i.e picture is going to the right side
> [^pic.png] no text arround picture i.e picture is going in the middle
> The picture [pic.png] where it is

good, simple and easy to implement. 

I only have to think of possible clashes with the wanted feature imagelinks.
  [<pic.png|LinkedPage] should display the png not the text as "<pic.png".
  but it seems to be okay.
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] tables again ,css

[Thomas K. <th...@co...>]

> I'd say that tables should always have a small, tasteful border: reason
> being to avoid people using them as layout controls, and instead, use 'em
as
> tabular data only.
>
> I'd say the same for joined cells-- why bother? It's not simple markup,
and
> rather against the spirit of Wiki.

Regarding all this comments to tables i would suggest:

leave tables as they are, ommit any customization of table layout and do it
all in the stylesheet.

If one could add a [style.css] to set the stylesheet and/or something to
change the actual class
(maybe [class:aclass]) then the whole things would be higly configurable.

Thomas

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] images

[<d9...@na...>]

On Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 10:51:24PM -0800, Aredridel wrote:
> > How about taking the fancy table formatting ( i mean < ^ > ) to pictu=
res =3D
> > ?
> >=20
> > [<pic.png] text floates at right i.e. picture is going to the left si=
de
> > [>pic.png] text floates at left i.e picture is going to the right sid=
e
> > [^pic.png] no text arround picture i.e picture is going in the middle
> > The picture [pic.png] where it is
>=20
> Oooh, not a bad syntax.... hmm!
>=20
> I like it -- clean, simple to implement, more or less understandable...=
 Wow.

Yes, very nice! If you can vote on new features, I give this high points.
And if you have > in a picture file name, you are stupid.

--=20
___\ Jon =C5slund

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] tables again

[Aredridel <are...@nb...>]

> Does anybody have an idea how to markup tables in wiki, so that they
> appear without a border ?
> 
> Maybee we should change to=20
> 
> | this | is | a | table without border
> 
> || this on || is with border
> 
> 
> || another || with || border
> ||+ first two cells joined  || third cell=20

I'd say that tables should always have a small, tasteful border: reason
being to avoid people using them as layout controls, and instead, use 'em as
tabular data only.

I'd say the same for joined cells-- why bother? It's not simple markup, and
rather against the spirit of Wiki.

Ari

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] images

[Aredridel <are...@nb...>]

> How about taking the fancy table formatting ( i mean < ^ > ) to pictures =
> ?
> 
> [<pic.png] text floates at right i.e. picture is going to the left side
> [>pic.png] text floates at left i.e picture is going to the right side
> [^pic.png] no text arround picture i.e picture is going in the middle
> The picture [pic.png] where it is

Oooh, not a bad syntax.... hmm!

I like it -- clean, simple to implement, more or less understandable... Wow.

Ari

[Phpwiki-talk] images

[Thomas K. <th...@co...>]

How about taking the fancy table formatting ( i mean < ^ > ) to pictures =
?

[<pic.png] text floates at right i.e. picture is going to the left side
[>pic.png] text floates at left i.e picture is going to the right side
[^pic.png] no text arround picture i.e picture is going in the middle
The picture [pic.png] where it is




What do you think ?

Thomas

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] tables again

[Thomas K. <th...@co...>]

> My take on it is that tables are to allow one to present data which wants
> to be tabular in a tabular form.  They're not in the wiki to allow
> for fancy diddling and customization of the layout.

I agree completely.

My requests on a wiki are
*make input as easy as possible
*make output as helpfull as possible
*find a structure, where any helpfull text fits in

helpfull texts could be
*instructions (demands: images, tables)
*theoretical papers (footnotes, chapters, references,annotations )
*collections (tables wiht guides for the eye)


But think of these two examples

a) you like to have a instruction how to cook something,
then you would like to have a table with text and pictures, without any
borders

| text describing procedure | [picture.png] %%% title

b) you have a long list of data (for example train arrivals or something
like that)
its not so nice to read without help, but this might be also different
colouring from line to line


> What about just one thin border around the whole table (no lines between
> cells.)  Just so that it's obvious that it's a table?


>
> (I'm open to suggestions regarding whether the tables should be centered
> or not as well.)

In my oppinion not centered.


>
> Note also, that in the CVS I've changed the default justification from
> centered to left-justified.   (That's the HTML default anyway,) and
> it seems like that's the most common choice.

agreed

Thomas

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] tables again

[Jeff D. <da...@da...>]

>Does anybody have an idea how to markup tables in wiki, so that they
>appear without a border ?

Yeah, I've been noticing that mostly I've been wanting border-less tables
as well.  Perhaps tables should always be border-less?

What about just one thin border around the whole table (no lines between
cells.)  Just so that it's obvious that it's a table?

(I'm open to suggestions regarding whether the tables should be centered
or not as well.)

> | this | is | a | table without border

> || this on || is with border

That's non-intuitive for me.  And seems a bit complicated.

My take on it is that tables are to allow one to present data which wants
to be tabular in a tabular form.  They're not in the wiki to allow 
for fancy diddling and customization of the layout.


Note also, that in the CVS I've changed the default justification from 
centered to left-justified.   (That's the HTML default anyway,) and
it seems like that's the most common choice.

Jeff

[Phpwiki-talk] object orientiation

[Thomas K. <th...@co...>]

I my thougths a first step towards a object-oriented wiki could be to =
allow for nested
wiki-tags like in the following examples:

WikiTag.SubWikiTag.SubSubWikiTag is interpreted as a whole

..SubWikiTag  in a page is prepended with the page-name in links=20

for example in the the page ThomasKalka
..ToDo would link to ThomasKalka.ToDo


What do you think ??

Thomas

[Phpwiki-talk] tables again

[Thomas K. <th...@co...>]

Does anybody have an idea how to markup tables in wiki, so that they
appear without a border ?

Maybee we should change to=20

| this | is | a | table without border

|| this on || is with border


|| another || with || border
||+ first two cells joined  || third cell=20


??? Thomas
=20

[Phpwiki-talk] alpha site updating

[Steve W. <sw...@wc...>]

The alpha site updated correctly last night. You can play with it at:

http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/alpha/

Thanks to Jeff for a new logo!

~swain

...............................ooo0000ooo.................................
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[Phpwiki-talk] more on the alpha site

[Steve W. <sw...@wc...>]

I've added a cron job to update the alpha site nightly at 5:50 am PST. One
problem is the index.php; for now, I have a backup copy that I overwrite
the version coming out of CVS with (to preserve the database info).

This means if there are important changes to index.php it will have to be
corrected by hand.

The good thing about this is it's a sort of nightly test. It would be
better if the alpha site were wiped and installed from scratch every
night, but that would be quite a trick. I could write ex scripts to make
the edits to index.php as needed, but then when the file changes it might
break the script. There's probably a way around this.

The mysql install was a little trickier than in the past; the definition
of the database name should be closer to the other database info, b/c at
first I thought there just wasn't a field for it.

Also, from the point where I installed it (nice install page Jeff!) there
were Incoming and Outgoing links with numbers and I don't know where they
came from, nor do they seem to be updating. At least, the numbers on
MostPopular don't match. They definitely don't match the current site, so
there can't be some database mixup.

~swain

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[Phpwiki-talk] alpha site up

[Steve W. <sw...@wc...>]

You can see the alpha site at 

http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/alpha/

However you will need to rewrite the links to:

http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/alpha/index.php/WikiWikiWeb

for example. I've filed a bug report about this.


I'll have a cron job written shortly to update the the alpha site every
night.

~swain

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Re: [Phpwiki-talk] test-wiki

[Jeff D. <da...@da...>]

In message <3A8...@x-...>,Reini Urban writes:
>What about removing %%Search%% and %%Fullsearch%% sooner or later?
>The new MacigPhpWikiURLs are functionally equivalent and even better.
>
>  [ Title Search | phpwiki:?action=search&searchterm=() ] 
>  [ Full Search | phpwiki:?action=search&searchtype=full&searchterm=() ] 

Yes, I think that's a good plan eventually.

Note that while I like the idea of the magic phpwiki:, I don't
really like the grammar I implemented, and would appreciate
suggestions for improvements.

Pros:
  Very flexible.   Can embed all sort of links/forms for
  administrative actions without having a special token
  (like %%Search%%) for everything one might want to do.

Cons:
  The syntax is a bit confusing.  (Not a huge con,
  since the average user, or even average admin never has to 
  write any of these links.)

  Not flexible enough.
  As an example: on the UserPreferences page,
  it would be nice to have a form with two input fields
  (edit area height and width).  It would also be nice to
  set the default values for these inputs to the users
  current settings.  Can't do that with the current syntax.
  (Now there's two seperate forms --- one for height, one
  for width --- and no (or constant) default values.)
  Tokens like %%EDIT_WIDTH%% would solve this (the default value)
  problem, but then, we wanted to get away from tokens.
  Or did we?

  Another example: how to exand/modify the syntax to allow
  for image buttons, etc... as Reini has requested?

Another consideration is that it would be nice to be able to
(easily) generate these sorts of links in the template files.

For example, one might like to put a search form somewhere in
the browse template --- it would be convenient not to have to enter
the entire form by hand.

Also, it would eliminate a lot of the template tokens we have now.
E.g. it would be nice to be able to say someting like
  %%%[Edit this page|phpwiki:?action=edit]%%% 
rather than
  <a class="wikiaction" href="###ACTION###edit">Edit this page</a>
Or 
  See %%%[phpwiki:UserPreferences]%%% .
rather than
  See <a class="wikilink" href="###BROWSE###UserPreferences"><span 
class="wikiword">UserPreferences</span></a>.

Perhaps we could introduce a way to delimit text in the templates
which should be run through transform.php?  e.g:
  {{{See UserPreferences.}}}


(The option to use PATH_INFO or not has made the task of
generating URLs in the templates much more complicated than
it used to be.   This is compounded by all the class= args
added for CSS support.)


While we're on the subject of templates, I think it would
be nice to implement some sort of "loop" construct in
the templates.

In the not too distant future (once we move to multiple saved 
versions) were going to have to generate more tables (and
more complicated tables) than we are now.

I think that it would be nice to get the table layout
into the template files, rather than being hard-coded into the
php code.
 

Jeff

[Phpwiki-talk] ChangeLog in nightly builds

[Steve W. <sw...@wc...>]

A full ChangeLog will appear in all nightly builds, once SourceForge
decides to restart crond. It's been down a few days but they must have
forgotten the root password. >:-P

Of course, one should not look a gift horse in the mouth, as the old
saying goes.

~swain

...............................ooo0000ooo.................................
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Re: [Phpwiki-talk] test-wiki

[Reini U. <ru...@x-...>]

What about removing %%Search%% and %%Fullsearch%% sooner or later?
The new MacigPhpWikiURLs are functionally equivalent and even better.

  [ Title Search | phpwiki:?action=search&searchterm=() ] 
  [ Full Search | phpwiki:?action=search&searchtype=full&searchterm=() ] 
-- 
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/home/rurban/

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] test-wiki

[Jeff D. <da...@da...>]

>Can do, probably tonight since I have no plans. 

In the interim there's I just put one up

  http://www.dairiki.org/cgi-bin/alpha-wiki.cgi/FrontPage

It's not ideal, since my web provider is not the greatest.
But it was a good exercise --- it broke a lot of my new auto-configuration
heuristics --- so now I'll have to figure out how to fix them.

I was going to publicize the admin user and password so you could play
with that (after disabling dumpserial and loadfile, that is), but
just discovered that the HTTP authentication stuff only works
if PHP is running as an apache module.  (So much for using cgiwrappers
to hide the admin password --- that'll hide it all right, but you
won't be able to use it!)

I think (as almost everybody else does) we're going to have to
move to using our own login form, rather the HTTP authentication.
The HTTP authentication is just not meant to be used like we're
using it.

When you get a demo wiki running at sourceforge, I'll probably get
rid of this one.  Though it would sort of be neat to have one which
gets auto-synced to the CVS nightly or something.

Jeff

Re: [Phpwiki-talk] email notification

[Jeff D. <da...@da...>]

>However the problem of others adding email addresses remains. JohnDoe
>might offend a script kiddie and suddenly he gets all the pages when they
>update.

Good point.

Again, once we have user logins, savepage could filter any new
[notify:] links and delete them if they point to someone other than
the current user (and generate a diagnostic message).

I think this should wait until after we have the ability to
authenticate users.

Jeff

[Phpwiki-talk] Display double byte chars?

[Steve W. <sw...@wc...>]

Korean and Chinese chars are not supported by PhpWiki:

http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?DoubleByteCharacters

Does PHP support them at all?

~swain

...............................ooo0000ooo.................................
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Re: [Phpwiki-talk] email notification

[Steve W. <sw...@wc...>]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Jeff Dairiki wrote:

> >[notify:email@address]
> 
> Very clever!  The main problem I see is that some people may object
> to having their email address publicly available for spamming.
> 
> Once we add user tracking, that won't be a problem, since the 
> user e-mail address can be stored (privately) along with his
> password and whatever other personal information.  Then there's
> just [notify:JohnDoe] on the page.
> 

However the problem of others adding email addresses remains. JohnDoe
might offend a script kiddie and suddenly he gets all the pages when they
update.

Anyway, this has been asked for before and I'll add it to the task list
now.

~swain

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Re: [Phpwiki-talk] test-wiki

[Steve W. <sw...@wc...>]

Can do, probably tonight since I have no plans. 

~swain

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Jeff Dairiki wrote:

> >Hi,
> >
> >there are a lott of interesting changes appearing in phpwiki-checkins.
> >
> >Is there a wiki, where one could test these ?
> >
> >Greetings, Thomas
> 
> Hi Thomas,
> 
> Yes, that's a good idea.
> 
> Steve, can we put the alpha-wiki up on phpwiki.sourceforge.net?
> I'll volunteer to maintain it (if that's possible).  Failing that,
> I can set one up at www.dairiki.org, but that will be a bit of a pain
> since that host doesn't have PHP4 yet.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Phpwiki-talk mailing list
> Php...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpwiki-talk
> 

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Re: [Phpwiki-talk] email notification

[Steve W. <sw...@wc...>]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Thomas Kalka wrote: 

> I implemented a simple notification by interpreting
> 
> [notify:email@address]
> 
> in the wiki-text and sending diffs and also the new html-page to the
> adresses in the changed and previous version, to allow to check for
> deletion of the [notify:...]
> 
> What do you think ? 
> 
> 

We even received a patch for this some time back. I personally like the
idea but I think Arno had valid objections.

I would like to see it added as a disabled feature; if someone sets
PhpWiki up on a secure intranet they can enable the feature.

Any other comments?

~swain

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Re: [Phpwiki-talk] test-wiki

[Steve W. <sw...@wc...>]

I'll set one up on SourceForge sometime soon.

~swain

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Thomas Kalka wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> there are a lott of interesting changes appearing in phpwiki-checkins.
> 
> Is there a wiki, where one could test these ?
> 
> Greetings, Thomas
> 
> 

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