1 NAME Arie /van Oorschot/
2 GIVN Arie
2 SPFX van
2 SURN Oorschot
1 NAME Petrus Cornelis /van Oorschot/
2 GIVN Petrus Cornelis
2 SURN van Oorschot
Help Information about: SURNAME PREFIX (SPFX) explains:
Enter or select from the list words that precede the main part of the Surname. Examples of such words are von Braun, van der Kloot, de Graaf, etc.
Observation about /van Oorschot/:
These persons (son and father) differ in the notion of “2 SURN” due to the usage of 2 SPFX (in case of the son) and the use of only 2 SURN (in case of the father).
The effect is that 2 entries appear in the branches list:
1. that includes father and son
2. a separate entry for the son
Point of discussion:
I would prefer to have only one entry in the branches list for easier and better control and I like strongly to suggest that that would be according to the intention of surname, as shown in the notation: /van Oorschot/
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
You need to be consistent in the use of the 2 SPFX. Either always use it, or always don't use it.
I prefer to not use 2 SPFX, since my GEDCOM is actually an export from Family Tree Maker 2006, which doesn't support name prefixes and suffixes very well. PhpGedView is supposed to sort the names so that "van Oorschot" sorts among the O's instead of among the V's.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Sorry, ... I got this wrong. My test shows the following:
Either always use the name prefix ("van" in this case), or never use it. If the name prefix isn't in the list, you can just type in whatever is correct. When you use a name prefix, type the rest of the family name without that "van".
When a name prefix is used, the family name sorts as if the prefix isn't present as part of the family name, so that "van Oorschot" sorts among the O's. However, the full family name "van Oorschot" is still displayed everywhere. When the name prefix isn't used and the family name is entered completely ("van Oorschot"), the name sorts among the V's.
So: be consistent in how you use the surname prefix.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I understand now the cause for having 2 branches listed, due to the interpretation of 2 'different' surnames, although /van Oorschot/ suggests that it is all about a single surname. And I have learned now how to avoid that.
This leaves me with this question: what really is the intention of list "branches"?
It behaves as to show for a requested surname as many branches as there are persons 1) without a father or 2) where its father has another surname. The branches themselves show all descendents.
I would rather prefer 1) to have a handy view of 'loose branches" that possibly could merge by further investigations.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
For the name specified, find all of the oldest records that do not have any parents. These are called "root" persons.
For all of the male "root" persons, find all of the male descendants and print them and their spouses in a tree. These are the "branches".
Female descendants, including female "root" persons, just have their spouses listed, and children of these females are simply indicated graphically without being further followed.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Gerry,
My remarks:
1, I recognize these "root" persons.
2. I recognize that these are the top of the branches
3. Understood.
Next to that I see (in my case additional branches where I used the surname
prefix attributes, even if the root of the branches appears as well in
another branch as descendant.
Remark: Prior to PhpGedView I used other software not enabling te surname
prefix. With PhpGedView I started to use the surname prefix not aware of
this minor 'inconsistency' that I can quite easily amend by getting rid of
the surname prefix.
I started the discussion, as I got the impression that the 'issue' could be
'solved' by an amendment in the program.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Paul:
The "inconsistency" arises because the two surnames are actually different. "van" + "Oorschot" is not the same as "van Oorschot". Try editing a name in PhpGedView. Enter the surname "van Oorschot", and then add the surname prefix "van". You'll see that PhpGedView proposes to make the complete name "van van Oorschot".
Depending on how you want surnames with the "van" (or other prefixes) sorted, you either use or don't use the surname prefix.
How do Dutch telephone directories work? You would normally want to replicate that, because your users would be familiar with that.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
The explanation about prefix and surname is complete enough.
And it is clear that the function of list branches is based on the unequality of the surname being the base of a branch instead of (but
that is my opinion/wish) that NO forefather is known.
The extra and most important reason for me is that during centuries:
1. surnames (with)in a family either exhibits small of bigger misspellings
2. or no surname is known but only the patronymic of the father
3. when people migrate to another country of region, surnames change
4. even when people moved to another farm, they got the farm's name as new
surname.
5. Nowadays (quite new) is that you are allowed known to deviate from your
fathers surname by giving your child any surname e.g. the surname of the
mother.
This list is not exhaustive, but it pleads for taking as start of a branch
ONLY that no forefather is known at all, instead of taking surname equality
as criterium. And this is of importance during history and civilizations in
the whole world.
Paul:
The "inconsistency" arises because the two surnames are actually
different. "van" + "Oorschot" is not the same as "van Oorschot". Try
editing a name in PhpGedView. Enter the surname "van Oorschot", and then
add the surname prefix "van". You'll see that PhpGedView proposes to make
the complete name "van van Oorschot".
Depending on how you want surnames with the "van" (or other prefixes)
sorted, you either use or don't use the surname prefix.
How do Dutch telephone directories work? You would normally want to
replicate that, because your users would be familiar with that.
The explanation about prefix and surname is complete enough.
And it is clear that the function of list branches is based on the unequality of the surname being the base of a branch instead of (but
that is my opinion/wish) that NO forefather is known.
The extra and most important reason for me is that during centuries:
1. surnames (with)in a family either exhibits small of bigger misspellings
2. or no surname is known but only the patronymic of the father
3. when people migrate to another country of region, surnames change
4. even when people moved to another farm, they got the farm's name as new
surname.
5. Nowadays (quite new) is that you are allowed known to deviate from your
fathers surname by giving your child any surname e.g. the surname of the
mother.
This list is not exhaustive, but it pleads for taking as start of a branch
ONLY that no forefather is known at all, instead of taking surname equality
as criterium. And this is of importance during history and civilizations in
the whole world.
Paul:
The "inconsistency" arises because the two surnames are actually
different. "van" + "Oorschot" is not the same as "van Oorschot". Try
editing a name in PhpGedView. Enter the surname "van Oorschot", and then
add the surname prefix "van". You'll see that PhpGedView proposes to make
the complete name "van van Oorschot".
Depending on how you want surnames with the "van" (or other prefixes)
sorted, you either use or don't use the surname prefix.
How do Dutch telephone directories work? You would normally want to
replicate that, because your users would be familiar with that.
About branches e.g.
1 NAME Arie /van Oorschot/
2 GIVN Arie
2 SPFX van
2 SURN Oorschot
1 NAME Petrus Cornelis /van Oorschot/
2 GIVN Petrus Cornelis
2 SURN van Oorschot
Help Information about: SURNAME PREFIX (SPFX) explains:
Enter or select from the list words that precede the main part of the Surname. Examples of such words are von Braun, van der Kloot, de Graaf, etc.
Observation about /van Oorschot/:
These persons (son and father) differ in the notion of “2 SURN” due to the usage of 2 SPFX (in case of the son) and the use of only 2 SURN (in case of the father).
The effect is that 2 entries appear in the branches list:
1. that includes father and son
2. a separate entry for the son
Point of discussion:
I would prefer to have only one entry in the branches list for easier and better control and I like strongly to suggest that that would be according to the intention of surname, as shown in the notation: /van Oorschot/
You need to be consistent in the use of the 2 SPFX. Either always use it, or always don't use it.
I prefer to not use 2 SPFX, since my GEDCOM is actually an export from Family Tree Maker 2006, which doesn't support name prefixes and suffixes very well. PhpGedView is supposed to sort the names so that "van Oorschot" sorts among the O's instead of among the V's.
Sorry, ... I got this wrong. My test shows the following:
Either always use the name prefix ("van" in this case), or never use it. If the name prefix isn't in the list, you can just type in whatever is correct. When you use a name prefix, type the rest of the family name without that "van".
When a name prefix is used, the family name sorts as if the prefix isn't present as part of the family name, so that "van Oorschot" sorts among the O's. However, the full family name "van Oorschot" is still displayed everywhere. When the name prefix isn't used and the family name is entered completely ("van Oorschot"), the name sorts among the V's.
So: be consistent in how you use the surname prefix.
I understand now the cause for having 2 branches listed, due to the interpretation of 2 'different' surnames, although /van Oorschot/ suggests that it is all about a single surname. And I have learned now how to avoid that.
This leaves me with this question: what really is the intention of list "branches"?
It behaves as to show for a requested surname as many branches as there are persons 1) without a father or 2) where its father has another surname. The branches themselves show all descendents.
I would rather prefer 1) to have a handy view of 'loose branches" that possibly could merge by further investigations.
The Branches list does the following:
Gerry,
My remarks:
1, I recognize these "root" persons.
2. I recognize that these are the top of the branches
3. Understood.
Next to that I see (in my case additional branches where I used the surname
prefix attributes, even if the root of the branches appears as well in
another branch as descendant.
Remark: Prior to PhpGedView I used other software not enabling te surname
prefix. With PhpGedView I started to use the surname prefix not aware of
this minor 'inconsistency' that I can quite easily amend by getting rid of
the surname prefix.
I started the discussion, as I got the impression that the 'issue' could be
'solved' by an amendment in the program.
Paul:
The "inconsistency" arises because the two surnames are actually different. "van" + "Oorschot" is not the same as "van Oorschot". Try editing a name in PhpGedView. Enter the surname "van Oorschot", and then add the surname prefix "van". You'll see that PhpGedView proposes to make the complete name "van van Oorschot".
Depending on how you want surnames with the "van" (or other prefixes) sorted, you either use or don't use the surname prefix.
How do Dutch telephone directories work? You would normally want to replicate that, because your users would be familiar with that.
Gerry:
The explanation about prefix and surname is complete enough.
And it is clear that the function of list branches is based on the
unequality of the surname being the base of a branch instead of (but
that is my opinion/wish) that NO forefather is known.
The extra and most important reason for me is that during centuries:
1. surnames (with)in a family either exhibits small of bigger misspellings
2. or no surname is known but only the patronymic of the father
3. when people migrate to another country of region, surnames change
4. even when people moved to another farm, they got the farm's name as new
surname.
5. Nowadays (quite new) is that you are allowed known to deviate from your
fathers surname by giving your child any surname e.g. the surname of the
mother.
This list is not exhaustive, but it pleads for taking as start of a branch
ONLY that no forefather is known at all, instead of taking surname equality
as criterium. And this is of importance during history and civilizations in
the whole world.
That's the point I want to discuss.
2016-09-04 1:38 GMT+02:00 Gerry Kroll canajun2eh@users.sf.net:
--
Paul & Anja Seesink-van der Pluijm
Website genealogie: http://www.seesink-vanderpluijm.nl/
http://www.seesink-vanderpluijm.nl/
previous message contained an annoying mistake: the word "known" is
superfluous.
2016-09-04 11:50 GMT+02:00 Paul Seesink pseesink@users.sf.net:
--
Paul & Anja Seesink-van der Pluijm
Website genealogie: http://www.seesink-vanderpluijm.nl/
http://www.seesink-vanderpluijm.nl/