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[Pcgen-trackers] [ pcgen-Bugs-1550467 ] Incorrect Jump modifier when creating Halfling D&D 3.5e char
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From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2006-09-01 14:27:37
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Bugs item #1550467, was opened at 2006-09-01 12:18 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by karianna You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384719&aid=1550467&group_id=25576 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Skill Support Group: To be fixed For 5.12 Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: Busara (busara) Assigned to: Martijn Verburg (karianna) Summary: Incorrect Jump modifier when creating Halfling D&D 3.5e char Initial Comment: I am relatively new to D&D, but I believe I have found an error in the way PCGen is calculating the Jump skill modifier. I have verified my findings with some friends and they believe I am correct. If I have missed something and PCGen is not making an error, I apologize. When I use PCGen to create a new D&D character using 3.5e settings, I believe the Jump modifier is calculated incorrectly when using the Halfling race. I have created a Halfling Rogue with Total Strength 12 (Str entered = 14, Halfling Str modifier is -2), which gives the character a +1 Str Ability Mod. According to the System Reference Document v3.5, Halflings get a +2 racial bonus on both Climb and Jump. This thus should bring the total Jump modifier to +3 (+2 racial bonus plus +1 Str Ability Mod), instead of the -3 that PCGen is currently calculating. The Climb modifier is calculated correctly, and shows a +3 modifier. When I click PCGen's Preview tab and view the Skills overview, the Jump skill shows a -4 Misc modifier at the far right. This, combined with the +1 Str Ability Mod, results in the -3 that PCGen is calculating. I believe it is this incorrectly calculated -4 Misc modifier at the far right that is causing the problem, for as far as I know, the Jump calculation should be handled in exactly the same way as the Climb one. If I use a different race (for instance: Human) and set the same Total Strength 12, the Jump and Climb modifiers seem to be calculating correctly. This makes me believe that the Halfling's +2 Jump bonus is handled incorrectly in PCGen. For all situations above, I have not yet assigned any Skill Ranks. The characters are basic and level 1, with no modifiers beyond what has been detailed above. The assumed Jump modifier calculation error is occuring in at least all recent (2 months) PCGen releases (both stable and other releases) up to (and including) v5.11.0. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Martijn Verburg (karianna) Date: 2006-09-01 15:27 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=252169 Hey Eddy, yeah this is like the AC we have fully explained on the OS or my (to be implemented freq) request to have attacks fully explained in the same way. I'll enter this freq over the weekend, we seem to be getting closer to being able to do this sort of stuff in our code base now - K ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Eddy Anthony (eddyanthony) Date: 2006-09-01 15:21 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=886893 There is a preference for that Kar, but it's less 'full' than it could be, I'm not sure it gives enough info that one could trace it back to the Jump skill and I know that it will group bonuses with the same type into one entry. The FREQ I would request is a way to get a report of each separate bonus, it's amount and the object it came from. If this could be done with output tokens that would be great. we would probably not use this much in the regular sheets but I would dearly love to build an OS specifically with this info for debugging characters. Busara, it's no inconvinience, we love getting feed back. Stick with us long enough and I can promise you will eventually find a legit bug ;-) Thanks for participating. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Martijn Verburg (karianna) Date: 2006-09-01 15:09 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=252169 Hey no worries, I completely missed it as well, nice work Eddy! Hmm, I can't try this at work, but I'm sure there was a preference in PCGen that says something like 'explain skill total in full', I wonder if that maybe shows us that specific modifier, don't really want to have to keep tripping over the same issues again. I'm going to keep this assigned to me, may turn into a code freq - K ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Busara (busara) Date: 2006-09-01 15:02 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1588431 Hello Eddy, I think you are correct - I completely missed this movementspeed modifier. I think that PCGen's Jump -4 Misc Modifier is thus explained: +2 halfling racial Jump bonus -6 Jump speed modifier (halfling speed is 20 indeed) Combined this is the -4 Misc Modifier that PCGen is (correctly) displaying. I believe my original bug report can therefore be removed - PCGen was correct all the way. I'm sorry for any inconvenience I might have caused. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Eddy Anthony (eddyanthony) Date: 2006-09-01 13:46 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=886893 Are you accounting for the modifier due to your movement rating? This is the second paragraph of the Jump skill desc: "Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet." If memory serves a halfling has a move of 20 which means a -6 is applied. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Busara (busara) Date: 2006-09-01 13:26 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1588431 That's excellent! Thanks everyone for the amazing work - PCGen is a great tool. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Martijn Verburg (karianna) Date: 2006-09-01 13:11 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=252169 Excellant, that's all we need to know, should get fixed soon I'd imagine - K ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Busara (busara) Date: 2006-09-01 13:06 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1588431 Thanks for the quick response karianna. I hope we can find a solution to this one. :) Here's my answers to your questions: 1. I have not found any -4 modifier for Halfling (small) characters on Jump. I have checked the Skills/Jump section of the RSRS but no -4 modifier is listed there. And in the Races/Halfling section there's no negative Jump modifier either (but there is a +4 on Hide). Just to verify, I have used a freeware program called "RedBlade 3.5e" to create the same Halfling Rogue character, and with that program the Jump skill is treated identically to the Climb one, and calculations are correct. According to the RSRD, Halflings get a +2 bonus on Jump: "+2 racial bonus on Climb, Jump, and Move Silently checks." http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/ races.html 2. If I add skill ranks, for example 2 Jump ranks, the -4 misc modifier is still there - clearly visible on the Overview tab. The total Jump modifier (after adding the 2 ranks) is then +1 Str Ability mod plus +2 ranks plus -4 misc is a total Jump modifier of -1) It seems PCGen is incorrectly assuming -4 is my Halfling's racial Jump bonus (instead of the +2 I am expecting). The difference between -4 and +2 is huge, and I cannot explain it. 3. The issue already occurs before my character has even purchased any items. The problem is already visible before any equipment is bought/equipped. Again, thank you for your quick reply karianna! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Martijn Verburg (karianna) Date: 2006-09-01 12:32 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=252169 Hi there, thanks for a great bug report! We sometimes don't get alot of the detail that we'd like :-). A couple of questions: 1.) Haven't checked the RSRD, but as Halflings are small don't they get -4 misc modifier to Jump? 2.) When you do add skill ranks does it still apply the -4 misc modifier? 3.) Lastly have you added any equipment to the halfling? It could be a load/weight problem... Thanks again K ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384719&aid=1550467&group_id=25576 |