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From: Marc S. <ma...@ou...> - 2014-01-10 19:21:23
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Seems once upon a time (like, within the last 24 hours :-) I saw something where the basic git workflow fopr the project in terms for first forking then cloning etc was described. This doens't seem to be in the actual git workflow document; where is it? Trying to find my way through on my own, the first noteworthy thing I see is that the schumann example is not on the master branch. Is that right? Are we supposed to be forking branches rather than the master? Marc |
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From: Janek W. <lem...@gm...> - 2014-01-10 19:18:39
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2014/1/10 Marc Sabatella <ma...@ou...> > eOn 1/10/2014 8:34 AM, Urs Liska wrote: > > > I still would like to keep it (less) complex piano music. What about > > the introduction of Chopin's f minor ballad op. 52 (m.1-7) > > http://imslp.org/images/7/79/TN-FChopin_Ballade_No.4%2C_Op.52_BH1.jpg > > ? Or is this still too complex? Urs > > I think still too complex as a beginning. There are a number of > notations there that one could easily go years without ever encountering > unless one specialized in late romantic piano music and that would > realistically have most musicians who don't specialize in that sort of > music scratching their heads to even understand. Again, it does seem > like an interesting challenge, but only after establishing the process > using a simpler score. > > On the other hand, I don't see any reason not to keep the original open, > especially given people have already begun working on it. I just think > a quick-and-dirty one that doesn't immediately bog people people on > esoterica but invites them into the process should be added and people > be encouraged to work out the process on that. I'm talking about > something that could be knocked out pretty quickly - something like a > page out of Anna Magdalena or maybe just a *little* more complex. I > know this would not be a "challenge" in the sense of presenting any > particular difficulties, but still, I think it would be value for just > getting to the point where we are all on the same page, so to speak. > And it provides a useful baseline to see how much manual adjustment and > how difficult it is in the simple cases before worrying about more > complex notations. I completely agree! Janek -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... |
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From: Urs L. <ul...@op...> - 2014-01-10 19:12:23
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Am 10.01.2014 19:20, schrieb Shane Brandes: > Greetings all, > > I figured out how to make the Git thing work more or less. Good. > A few > observations prior to starting. This music is not terribly complex > compared even to Liszt or even some Brahms stuff. I think it was a > good choice in terms of providing a certain level of complexity of > balancing things on the page that must be done by the program. Which one are you talking about, Schumann or Chopin/Godowsky? Urs PS: I've pushed the plain music entry of the Schumann example: https://github.com/openlilylib/engraving-challenges/tree/2-schumann-challenge/challenge02-schumann/LilyPond-custom I'm not too excited about the result. Particularly the piano-centered dynamics had a significant negative impact. But I think this will easily be fixed later. (For more see the commit messages. One thing: I've (stupidly) copied from my paper copy of Henle, now I see that it has considerable differences against the Clara Schumann edition. I will fix that and follow the older one that is uploaded on Github. > Lunch > first and the task. > > Shane > |
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From: Janek W. <lem...@gm...> - 2014-01-10 19:05:38
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2014/1/10 Urs Liska <ul...@op...> > Am 10.01.2014 18:02, schrieb Phil Holmes: > > Is now pushed to my git repo. Enjoy :-) > > As a shortcut for everyone: > > https://github.com/PhilHolmes/engraving-challenges/tree/master/challenge01/Sibelius-7 > > That's _very_ interesting. > indeed!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... |
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From: Shane B. <sh...@gr...> - 2014-01-10 18:48:36
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Greetings all, I figured out how to make the Git thing work more or less. A few observations prior to starting. This music is not terribly complex compared even to Liszt or even some Brahms stuff. I think it was a good choice in terms of providing a certain level of complexity of balancing things on the page that must be done by the program. Lunch first and the task. Shane |
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From: Phil H. <ma...@ph...> - 2014-01-10 18:18:52
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Urs Liska" <ul...@op...> To: "oll-user" <ope...@li...> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 4:39 PM Subject: [oll-user] [Challenges] New challenge > I've put up a new challenge: > https://github.com/openlilylib/engraving-challenges/blob/2-schumann-challenge/challenge02-schumann/README.md > > I did *not* want to make it even simpler because I think this is a score > that should be feasible by any program without posing esoteric problems. > > I hope everyone is fine with that. > > And of course everybody can also start/continue with the other one too. > > Best > Urs I would like to see a vocal challenge: something like solo voice with piano. I've seen a lot of very bad attempts using Sibelius. If you're not aware of what's available, Songs of Travel by Vaughan Williams would provide some possible. -- Phil Holmes |
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From: Urs L. <ul...@op...> - 2014-01-10 17:07:02
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Am 10.01.2014 18:02, schrieb Phil Holmes: > Is now pushed to my git repo. Enjoy :-) > As a shortcut for everyone: https://github.com/PhilHolmes/engraving-challenges/tree/master/challenge01/Sibelius-7 That's _very_ interesting. Urs > -- > Phil Holmes > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > openlilylib-user mailing list > ope...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openlilylib-user > |
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From: Phil H. <em...@ph...> - 2014-01-10 17:03:07
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Is now pushed to my git repo. Enjoy :-) -- Phil Holmes |
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From: Marc S. <ma...@ou...> - 2014-01-10 16:54:12
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Better. I personally would still have preferred something without incomplete voices or mixed voices on a single stem - both decidedly "special" cases even if not that uncommon in Romantic era piano music. Those two features of this piece will surely dominate this challenge and I'd rather have had one that was truly just about the basics. But it's not my project, and I appreciate the effort in finding a more suitable choice. Marc |
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From: Urs L. <ul...@op...> - 2014-01-10 16:50:16
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Am 10.01.2014 17:45, schrieb Phil Holmes: > I'm going to give up for a while soon, but I'd like to get bar 3 reasonably > finished. I can't work out what the numerals mean - I assume they're > fingering, but some of the notes in the LH appear to have too many. Are the > ones above the LH stave intended for the RH and are actually misplaced? No, Godowksy was a fingering maniac and provided alternative fingerings. These can also be found in additional exercises. Sometimes he even suggested to practice something with permutating all possible fingerings ;-) OMG, that's so far from how _I_ learned playing piano ... Urs > > -- > Phil Holmes > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > openlilylib-user mailing list > ope...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openlilylib-user > |
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From: Phil H. <ma...@ph...> - 2014-01-10 16:48:25
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Grr. Keep on forgetting which mail address to use. -- Phil Holmes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Holmes" <em...@ph...> To: "Openlilylib" <ope...@li...> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 4:45 PM Subject: [Challenges] Next confusion > I'm going to give up for a while soon, but I'd like to get bar 3 > reasonably finished. I can't work out what the numerals mean - I assume > they're fingering, but some of the notes in the LH appear to have too > many. Are the ones above the LH stave intended for the RH and are > actually misplaced? > > -- > Phil Holmes > > |
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From: Phil H. <em...@ph...> - 2014-01-10 16:45:46
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I'm going to give up for a while soon, but I'd like to get bar 3 reasonably finished. I can't work out what the numerals mean - I assume they're fingering, but some of the notes in the LH appear to have too many. Are the ones above the LH stave intended for the RH and are actually misplaced? -- Phil Holmes |
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From: Urs L. <ul...@op...> - 2014-01-10 16:39:14
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I've put up a new challenge: https://github.com/openlilylib/engraving-challenges/blob/2-schumann-challenge/challenge02-schumann/README.md I did *not* want to make it even simpler because I think this is a score that should be feasible by any program without posing esoteric problems. I hope everyone is fine with that. And of course everybody can also start/continue with the other one too. Best Urs |
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From: Marc S. <ma...@ou...> - 2014-01-10 16:02:28
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eOn 1/10/2014 8:34 AM, Urs Liska wrote: > I still would like to keep it (less) complex piano music. What about > the introduction of Chopin's f minor ballad op. 52 (m.1-7) > http://imslp.org/images/7/79/TN-FChopin_Ballade_No.4%2C_Op.52_BH1.jpg > ? Or is this still too complex? Urs I think still too complex as a beginning. There are a number of notations there that one could easily go years without ever encountering unless one specialized in late romantic piano music and that would realistically have most musicians who don't specialize in that sort of music scratching their heads to even understand. Again, it does seem like an interesting challenge, but only after establishing the process using a simpler score. On the other hand, I don't see any reason not to keep the original open, especially given people have already begun working on it. I just think a quick-and-dirty one that doesn't immediately bog people people on esoterica but invites them into the process should be added and people be encouraged to work out the process on that. I'm talking about something that could be knocked out pretty quickly - something like a page out of Anna Magdalena or maybe just a *little* more complex. I know this would not be a "challenge" in the sense of presenting any particular difficulties, but still, I think it would be value for just getting to the point where we are all on the same page, so to speak. And it provides a useful baseline to see how much manual adjustment and how difficult it is in the simple cases before worrying about more complex notations. Marc |
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From: Urs L. <ul...@op...> - 2014-01-10 15:52:47
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Am 10.01.2014 16:37, schrieb Phil Holmes: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Urs Liska" <ul...@op...> > To: "oll-user" <ope...@li...> > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 3:34 PM > Subject: Re: [oll-user] [Challenges] Engraving challenge > >> By now I'm nearly talked into postponing it and considering something >> else ... > > > Nooo. I've entered all the notes now. Just trying to work out how to > get Sib to pedal properly. > > -- > Phil Holmes Not discarding. Just doing something else before. And believe me: that PDF you sent is already a gift :-/ Urs |
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From: Urs L. <ul...@op...> - 2014-01-10 15:51:30
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Am 10.01.2014 16:25, schrieb Phil Holmes: > I'm using git version 1.7.11.msysgit.0 to track my "Challenge" activity, and > it appears that it won't recognise .pdf files. .png is fine, as is .sib. > My .exclude file appears empty. Can anyone suggest what I need to do to add > PDFs? > The .gitignore file for the repository excludes .pdf files so they aren't automatically tracked. If that behaviour isn't different on Windows you can simply add such a file manually with git add path/to/file.pdf But if you're talking about the file I already uploaded in your name I strongly recommend you overwrite it so it will be tracked as a modification. it is on the phil-sib-music-entry branch and has a different name from your original one. HTH Urs |
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From: Phil H. <ma...@ph...> - 2014-01-10 15:37:48
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Urs Liska" <ul...@op...> To: "oll-user" <ope...@li...> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [oll-user] [Challenges] Engraving challenge > By now I'm nearly talked into postponing it and considering something > else ... Nooo. I've entered all the notes now. Just trying to work out how to get Sib to pedal properly. -- Phil Holmes |
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From: Urs L. <ul...@op...> - 2014-01-10 15:34:55
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Am 10.01.2014 16:12, schrieb Marc Sabatella: > Regarding the title, etc - since this is just one page of a multipage > score, I think the most natural way to handle this is to create a > multipage score, put nothing of interest on the first page (one empty > measure, perhaps), and then just submit page two. That sounds a good idea. > > However, I too question whether this except makes sense as an initial > challenge. By now I'm nearly talked into postponing it and considering something else ... > It seems desgiend to answer the question, "how well do > various programs do at representing notation that almost no one will > ever need to create". Maybe I'm biased because we just published nearly 100 pages of music that was very often that complex. And I have recorded around eight hours of comparable music over recent years, so it seemed rather natural... > I can see eventually wanting to answer that > question. But isn't the far more interesting question, how well do they > do at the common stuff? I think we should establish that first using a > more conventional score. Sounds acceptable. > Using something simpler would also give us an > opportunity to work the kinks out of the process itself. This is a really good point. So I think we postpone (but not junk it, existing work is still valid) the chopin-godowsky example. I still would like to keep it (less) complex piano music. What about the introduction of Chopin's f minor ballad op. 52 (m.1-7) http://imslp.org/images/7/79/TN-FChopin_Ballade_No.4%2C_Op.52_BH1.jpg ? Or is this still too complex? Urs > — > Marc Sabatella > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 6:10 AM, Urs Liska <ul...@op... > <mailto:ul...@op...>> wrote: > > Am 10.01.2014 14:02, schrieb Phil Holmes: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Urs Liska" <ul...@op...> > > To: "Phil Holmes" <ma...@ph...>; > > <ope...@li...> > > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 12:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [oll-user] [Challenges] Engraving challenge > > > > > >> Am 10.01.2014 13:34, schrieb Phil Holmes: > >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Urs Liska" > <ul...@op...> > >>> To: <ope...@li...> > >>> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 11:21 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [oll-user] [Challenges] Engraving challenge > >>> > >>> > >>>> Am 10.01.2014 11:33, schrieb Phil Holmes: > >>>>> > >>>>> The other issue is that this is clearly an odd piece of music > - the > >>>>> beaming > >>>>> patterns are very atypical, and any music typesetting program > with > >>>>> require > >>>>> substantial hacking to set this. > >>>> > >>>> This is intentional - I would like to see how each program > performs > >>>> with > >>>> extreme tasks. > >>>> But we can discuss if this really is a good idea for a first > challenge. > >>>> I'd like to hear more opinions on this. > >>> > >>> OK. > >>> > >>>>> Some of the crossing notes are not really > >>>>> all that easy to read - see the 2nd beat of bar 3, for example. > >>>> > >>>> I don't really understand what you mean. Please narrow it down > some > >>>> more. > >>> > >>> On the 2nd beat of bar 3, a dotted quaver c in the treble stave > crosses > >>> to a semi-quaver a (?) in the bass clef, colliding with the > beam for the > >>> LH. I'm not convinced it's easy to read that. > >> > >> the dotted quaver c' crosses to the c' in the bass clef. > >> But I still don't quite understand why this is objectionable. > It's not > >> easy to read that, but it's the logical notation in that > context. And > >> it's not ambiguous. It's not even ambiguous compared to the > >> corresponding points in the next bar where the melody is in > triplets. > > > > It's objectionable because the stem goes clean through the beam > (without > > being even visible in the beam). It would be clearer and better > looking > > to leave it in the treble stave. > > > > OK, I see now what you mean. > Two aspects: > a) > It _has_ to be in the lower stave because it's to be played with the > left hand. > > b) > Looking thorugh the score it seems the engraver treated this aspect > inconsistently, sometimes there are stems between the beams, > sometimes not. > I think this is a case that can be neglected. The intention is *not* to > replicate the original as closely as possible, but to engrave the music > as good as possible. > > Urs > > FWIW, also check out the first 4 notes in the LH in bar 3. No > stems in > > the beams. > > > > -- > > Phil Holmes > > > -- > Urs Liska > www.openlilylib.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > _______________________________________________ > openlilylib-user mailing list > ope...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openlilylib-user > > |
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From: Phil H. <ma...@ph...> - 2014-01-10 15:25:20
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I'm using git version 1.7.11.msysgit.0 to track my "Challenge" activity, and it appears that it won't recognise .pdf files. .png is fine, as is .sib. My .exclude file appears empty. Can anyone suggest what I need to do to add PDFs? TIA -- Phil Holmes |
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From: Urs L. <ul...@op...> - 2014-01-10 15:22:13
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Am 10.01.2014 16:04, schrieb David Webber: > From: Urs Liska > >> did you deliberately reply to me privately? > > No :-) [Normally the Reply-all button on my Windows Live mail, replies to > lists like this, but for this one it seems to go to the individual. But > this is the first source forge list I've tried.] > >> ... >> That's a valid position. >> ... >> I think the judgements are highly subjective, and as said in several > places we're not going to nominate a winner. > In a case like yours you will get the most out of it yourself when > making the experience, comparing it to the reports of others and see > what inspiration you'll get from this for further development of your > software.< > > Thanks. I'm feeling encouraged. > > Having looked more closely, I am now convinced that this piece has been > engraved by a complete fruitcake :-) :-) Beat 2 of bar 3, when I worked > it out, has two C's at the same pitch beamed from treble to bass staff, (the > one Phil remarked on), in order to make it as hard to read as possible. (OK > I'm no pianist, and us sax players don't have to worry about that, but I'm > sure this is not 'normal'.) I can assure you this _is_ 'normal' for this kind of piano music (apart from the fact that the music is somewhat beyound 'normal' music ;-), and it's surely not on the engraver's behalf but that of the composer. The only reasonable alternative (sometimes used by Liszt) would be to put the melody on its own staff. Urs > Still, I can do that! :-) > > Dave > > David Webber > Mozart Music Software > http://www.mozart.co.uk/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > openlilylib-user mailing list > ope...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openlilylib-user > |
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From: Marc S. <mar...@gm...> - 2014-01-10 15:17:07
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Accidentally replied privately (are we religiously oppsed to having the list set reply-to?)— Marc Sabatella ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Marc Sabatella" <mar...@gm...> Date: Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [oll-user] [Challenges] Engraving challenge To: "Urs Liska" <ul...@op...> > Regarding the title, etc - since this is just one page of a multipage score, I think the most natural way to handle this is to create a multipage score, put nothing of interest on the first page (one empty measure, perhaps), and then just submit page two. > However, I too question whether this except makes sense as an initial challenge. It seems desgiend to answer the question, "how well do various programs do at representing notation that almost no one will ever need to create". I can see eventually wanting to answer that question. But isn't the far more interesting question, how well do they do at the common stuff? I think we should establish that first using a more conventional score. Using something simpler would also give us an opportunity to work the kinks out of the process itself. > — > Marc Sabatella > On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 6:10 AM, Urs Liska <ul...@op...> wrote: >> Am 10.01.2014 14:02, schrieb Phil Holmes: >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Urs Liska" <ul...@op...> >>> To: "Phil Holmes" <ma...@ph...>; >>> <ope...@li...> >>> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 12:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [oll-user] [Challenges] Engraving challenge >>> >>> >>>> Am 10.01.2014 13:34, schrieb Phil Holmes: >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Urs Liska" <ul...@op...> >>>>> To: <ope...@li...> >>>>> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 11:21 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [oll-user] [Challenges] Engraving challenge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Am 10.01.2014 11:33, schrieb Phil Holmes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The other issue is that this is clearly an odd piece of music - the >>>>>>> beaming >>>>>>> patterns are very atypical, and any music typesetting program with >>>>>>> require >>>>>>> substantial hacking to set this. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is intentional - I would like to see how each program performs >>>>>> with >>>>>> extreme tasks. >>>>>> But we can discuss if this really is a good idea for a first challenge. >>>>>> I'd like to hear more opinions on this. >>>>> >>>>> OK. >>>>> >>>>>>> Some of the crossing notes are not really >>>>>>> all that easy to read - see the 2nd beat of bar 3, for example. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't really understand what you mean. Please narrow it down some >>>>>> more. >>>>> >>>>> On the 2nd beat of bar 3, a dotted quaver c in the treble stave crosses >>>>> to a semi-quaver a (?) in the bass clef, colliding with the beam for the >>>>> LH. I'm not convinced it's easy to read that. >>>> >>>> the dotted quaver c' crosses to the c' in the bass clef. >>>> But I still don't quite understand why this is objectionable. It's not >>>> easy to read that, but it's the logical notation in that context. And >>>> it's not ambiguous. It's not even ambiguous compared to the >>>> corresponding points in the next bar where the melody is in triplets. >>> >>> It's objectionable because the stem goes clean through the beam (without >>> being even visible in the beam). It would be clearer and better looking >>> to leave it in the treble stave. >>> >> OK, I see now what you mean. >> Two aspects: >> a) >> It _has_ to be in the lower stave because it's to be played with the >> left hand. >> b) >> Looking thorugh the score it seems the engraver treated this aspect >> inconsistently, sometimes there are stems between the beams, sometimes not. >> I think this is a case that can be neglected. The intention is *not* to >> replicate the original as closely as possible, but to engrave the music >> as good as possible. >> Urs >>> FWIW, also check out the first 4 notes in the LH in bar 3. No stems in >>> the beams. >>> >>> -- >>> Phil Holmes >> -- >> Urs Liska >> www.openlilylib.org >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. >> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For >> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. >> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> openlilylib-user mailing list >> ope...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openlilylib-user -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... |
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From: David W. <da...@mu...> - 2014-01-10 15:12:39
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From: Urs Liska > did you deliberately reply to me privately? No :-) [Normally the Reply-all button on my Windows Live mail, replies to lists like this, but for this one it seems to go to the individual. But this is the first source forge list I've tried.] >... > That's a valid position. >... > I think the judgements are highly subjective, and as said in several places we're not going to nominate a winner. In a case like yours you will get the most out of it yourself when making the experience, comparing it to the reports of others and see what inspiration you'll get from this for further development of your software.< Thanks. I'm feeling encouraged. Having looked more closely, I am now convinced that this piece has been engraved by a complete fruitcake :-) :-) Beat 2 of bar 3, when I worked it out, has two C's at the same pitch beamed from treble to bass staff, (the one Phil remarked on), in order to make it as hard to read as possible. (OK I'm no pianist, and us sax players don't have to worry about that, but I'm sure this is not 'normal'.) Still, I can do that! :-) Dave David Webber Mozart Music Software http://www.mozart.co.uk/ |
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From: David W. <da...@mu...> - 2014-01-10 15:12:23
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From: Urs Liska >> The other issue is that this is clearly an odd piece of music - the >> beaming >> patterns are very atypical, and any music typesetting program with >> require >> substantial hacking to set this. >This is intentional - I would like to see how each program performs with >extreme tasks. >But we can discuss if this really is a good idea for a first challenge. >I'd like to hear more opinions on this. I'm fairly neutral on this. As a notation software author I have no real desire to reproduce idiosyncratic notation. My prime objective is to make 'standard' notation quick and easy to enter, which I suppose means that 'extreme engraving tasks' as such are not what I'm about. In fact since Elaine Gould's excellent book 'Behind bars' came out in 2011, I've been looking to improve where my software falls short of her standards, rather then extend it to circumstances which fall well outside. However, it is always interesting to look at exceptional cases, to see whether the sense of the music can be reproduced in a readable fashion, even if the exact engraving can't be. For example I can already see that I won't reproduce the strange quaver/semiquaver beaming patterns in this piece, but they don't look particularly readable, and I don't really know that I want to. (But maybe I'll change my mind when I've tried it). My main concern is who is going to judge the results and on what basis. Just the direction to 'take as long as you like' already skews the results towards programs designed to reproduce any form of engraving with no real concern about how long it takes, which, as I say, is not my objective at all. [I'm sure just using graphics software could reproduce it perfectly, though it may take some time!] Still I plan to have a look, though time is too valuable to spend a lot on it! Dave David Webber Mozart Music Software http://www.mozart.co.uk/ |
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From: Urs L. <ul...@op...> - 2014-01-10 14:44:30
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Am 10.01.2014 15:23, schrieb Phil Holmes: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Urs Liska" <ul...@op...> > To: <ope...@li...> > Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 2:16 PM > Subject: Re: [oll-user] Fw: [Challenges]: Sibelius > > >>> >>> Thanks for your patience. This is the kind of information we're trying >>> to collect, I think. >>> >>> So if you were doing this in real life you would have applied _lots_ of >>> tweaks by now, just to be able to see what you're doing, right? > > Right. I clicked "Layout... Optimize" and it pushed staves all over the > place. It seems that its default and optimzed layouts are both, in the > English vernacular, pants. > >> It seems the attachment was stripped by the mailing list software. >> I'll look into that and have a look where the problem is. >> >> As a workaround I have added the file to the repository, and it can be >> downloaded from >> https://github.com/openlilylib/engraving-challenges/blob/phil-sib-music-entry/challenge01/Sibelius-7/phil/chopin-godowsky-sibelius-phil.pdf >> > > When I get something else worth looking at, I'll push it to my repo. Well, please also add the versions of the document file so other Sibelius users can retrace it. But we _should_ have a way to exchange images. I found the settings in the mailing list that defines MIME type filters. It seems that now .pdf, .png and .jpg files can be exchanged, but it seems I can't do anything about the size limit of 40 KB. Urs > > -- > Phil Holmes |
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From: Urs L. <ul...@op...> - 2014-01-10 14:38:07
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Am 10.01.2014 15:30, schrieb Phil Holmes:
> Can't work out the beat structure. Are the last 2 beats regular and the
> first 2 beats all in triplets?
Yes.
> i.e. voice one in the RH: triplet crochets
> followed by dotted quaver/semi quaver occupying a triplet crochet space?
\tuplet 3/2 { fis'4 fis''4 b''8. b''16 } <dis''' b'''>4 r4
I think that's exactly what you mean.
Urs
>
> --
> Phil Holmes
>
>
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