Re: [Openfoam-extend-general] Development process of OpenFOAM-1.5-dev

[Bernhard G. <Ber...@ic...>]

Hi all!

Let's please not escalate this any further. I feel a flame-war coming
on. 

At first to the initial mail. The problem with compiling is, that most
of the time if one thing goes wrong it results in a lot of error. You
not posting the whole log here is greatly appreciated. But it would be
of great help if you gave an indication where the first error occured
(plus the text of the first error).

To my knowledge the current version in the repository of 1.5-dev
compiles alright.

I guess the buildInstructions were not changed because the basic
process did not change apart from the version numbers

README in two formats is something that originates in the
upstream-project. 

>>>>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:46:24 +0200
>>>>> "RS" == Rostislav Svoboda <ros...@gm...> wrote:

    RS> Hi together 2009/8/8 Håkan Nilsson <ha...@ch...>:
    >> It is in fact quite easy to install the dev-version. You just
    RS> [..]
    >> Most slightly experienced OpenFOAM users realize this and
    >> [that]
    RS> [..]
    >> don't be so upset about some minor mistakes, and instead see
    >> how much you get for free from lots of people who didn't get
    >> anything back from you yet.

    RS> I have a friend of mine he is a brilliant mechanical engineer
    RS> with unfortunately no idea what is a 'swap partition', 'code
    RS> repository' or 'preprocessor directive'. Your doctor does not
    RS> blame you for knowing how to say knee in Latin. So don't blame
    RS> a mechanical engineer for a lack of software engineering
    RS> skills. Frankly, if you go to doctor you get a service worth
    RS> of thousands of Euro sometimes, although you payed just a
    RS> fraction of it. And if the doc makes a mistake you're about to
    RS> ... well not a word about being thankful for how much you got
    RS> for free.

More on the doctor below.

    RS> I can tell you, that friend of mine has spent last 6 month on
    RS> learning 'linux and all the stuff around', on learning
    RS> something he is not interested in! I repeat: He is a
    RS> mechanical not software engineer. And if I track back his
    RS> problems: Most of the time waste is caused by - from your
    RS> point of view - minor mistakes.

    RS> Would _you_ be thankful for that?

I see your point that nobody can be a specialist for everything, but
the fact currently is that with OF it is quite good if you have a
doctor in the house. But at least you have to know how to work with a
first aid kit.

    >> Note that you are dealing with a development line, meaning that
    >> some revisions might give you error messages while compling.

    RS> ??? Do you realize implications of your statement? If anyone
    RS> breaks it no one else can compile it! Isn't it _the_ emergency
    RS> situation to be avoided at any cost?!?

Hakan was talking about more subtle problems: solvers behaving
slightly different etc. Usually the dev compiles.

And using a version from a SVN/GIT/CVS usually is risky. If you don't
need the special stuff there it is better to stick to the releases

    >> I'm sure that you can set up a support contract with some
    >> developer to keep all the README files typo-error-free, but for
    >> most developers it is in fact the code itself that has the
    >> highest priority.

    RS> Hey, hey, hold on! What do you think how many people out-there
    RS> in the wild have enough software engineering know-how and
    RS> linux skills for this job. Besides, linux is still too exotic
    RS> and difficult even for more than a 90% of IT guys (based on
    RS> ongoing everyday experience) And what do you think how much do
    RS> you have to pay to a such guy? And what do you think who would
    RS> be interested in such a work if there is plenty of more
    RS> interesting jobs at hand?

    RS> [..]
    >> see how much you get for free from lots of people who didn't
    >> get anything back from you yet.

    RS> How can you claim that? Aren't you using *that* linux where
    RS> everyone works for free? And what would you say about people
    RS> which are never gonna contribute to your project? People
    RS> working on KDE, Gnome, Kernel, GCC, Firefox, Ubuntu, Debian,
    RS> Amarok, Vim, Emacs etc.? And what about all the people busy
    RS> with introducing linux and especially the OpenFOAM to the
    RS> others? You think it's a 2 minutes work with no impact on you?

"THAT Linux where everyone works for free" Is that meant ironic? There
is a lot of work done by people "for free" and they're doing valuable
stuff, but the reality is that most of the projects you mentioned have
a core of programmers THAT get paid for doing that stuff by some
company because they have strategic interest (IBM and others pay
people to contribute to Linux, Google founded Mozilla, just some
examples) or direct interest (Redhat ...) 

Nobody expects you to contribute to OF as much as you do to other
projects, but you've got to be aware that most of the people who
provide help on the forum have day jobs where they have to answer to
the people who foot their bills (their customers, their students)
about giving away support for free while they are paying for it (don't
get me wrong: these people are remarkably cool about it, but they want
to see results for their projects too). Or to get back to your "pay a
few bucks to the doctor for services worth several thousands": I guess
you were never in the unlucky situation to live in a country without
proper health insurance OR needing services that were not covered by
your health insurance. And the only reason why you have to pay your
doctor so little is because there is some kind of system in place that
make sure that this highly qualified professional can earn a
living. 

    RS> Ok, next time I'll be a bit more constructive & productive

    RS> Bost

Bernhard

    RS> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    RS> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal
    RS> Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design,
    RS> integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best,
    RS> core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal
    RS> Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
    RS> _______________________________________________
    RS> Openfoam-extend-general mailing list
    RS> Ope...@li...
    RS> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openfoam-extend-general


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
DI Bernhard F.W. Gschaider
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
EMail: 	Ber...@ic...
WWW  : www.ice-sf.at
Jabber : bgs...@ja...
Tel:	+43(3842)98282-42	Fax:	+43(3842)98282-02
---------------------------------------------------------------------------