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Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] [Batteries] First patch: Option, LazyList

[David T. <Dav...@un...>]

   Hi,

1) For [get_exn], I reason that, with ExtLib's conventions, when writing
a module for a new data structure, one often has to write two functions:
* some_kind_of_get : 'a t -> 'a option
* some_kind_of_get': 'a t -> 'a (**raises [ThisModule.NotFound] *)

Having [Option.get_exn] makes it possible to write the second function
from the first one as a (real) one-liner.

2) For [Option.enum], it's not a big deal, just a matter of
uniformisation wrt other containers. I consider also adding [iter] and
[filter].

Cheers,
 David


On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 23:28 +0300, Janne Hellsten wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> What kind of example uses did you have in mind for the Option
> additions?
> 
> Not sure if I agree that get_exn is too useful an addition.  If
> Not_found for the (often erroneous) case of (Option.get None) is not
> generic enough, couldn't you just match the option and throw the
> exception yourself:
> 
> match o with None -> raise your_exception | Some f -> f
> 
> What's the use case for Option.enum?
> 
> Janne

-- 
David Teller
 Security of Distributed Systems
  http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
 Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings liquidations. 

Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] [Batteries] First patch: Option, LazyList

[Janne H. <jjh...@gm...>]

Hi David,

What kind of example uses did you have in mind for the Option additions?

Not sure if I agree that get_exn is too useful an addition.  If Not_found
for the (often erroneous) case of (Option.get None) is not generic enough,
couldn't you just match the option and throw the exception yourself:

match o with None -> raise your_exception | Some f -> f

What's the use case for Option.enum?

Janne

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 9:29 PM, David Teller <Dav...@un...>
wrote:

>     Hi,
>
>  I've tried to send a patch a few weeks ago but, for some reason, it
> seems that this patch never reached the mailing-list.
>
>  I'm trying again to send a first patch. This patch involves
> * addition of two functions to module [Option]: [enum] (which allows
> enumerating the contents of an [Option.t]) and [get_exn] (a
> generalisation of [get])
> * two new modules, [LazyList] and [LazyListLabels], for Haskell-style
> lazy lists.
>
> I hope that the patch will reach you, this time. I'm waiting for
> feedback before contributing an improved [Enum] and a number of other
> modules.
>
> Cheers,
>  David
>
>
> --
> David Teller
>  Security of Distributed Systems
>  http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
>  Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings
> liquidations.
>
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[Ocaml-lib-devel] [Batteries] Fixed patch

[David T. <Dav...@un...>]

   Oops,

 Got the wrong files for module option. While my previous post remains
correct, two files were full sources where they should have been unified
diffs. I attach the correct files.

Cheers,
 David

-- 
David Teller
 Security of Distributed Systems
  http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
 Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings liquidations. 

[Ocaml-lib-devel] [Batteries] First patch: Option, LazyList

[David T. <Dav...@un...>]

     Hi,

 I've tried to send a patch a few weeks ago but, for some reason, it
seems that this patch never reached the mailing-list.

 I'm trying again to send a first patch. This patch involves
* addition of two functions to module [Option]: [enum] (which allows
enumerating the contents of an [Option.t]) and [get_exn] (a
generalisation of [get])
* two new modules, [LazyList] and [LazyListLabels], for Haskell-style
lazy lists.

I hope that the patch will reach you, this time. I'm waiting for
feedback before contributing an improved [Enum] and a number of other
modules.

Cheers,
 David


-- 
David Teller
 Security of Distributed Systems
  http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
 Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings liquidations. 

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Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] [ExtLib] Getting ready for a second contribution

[Erik de C. L. <mle...@me...>]

David Teller wrote:

> Let me rephrase: I'm waiting for some feedback on either my planned list
> of contributions or my previous submission. I have no clue if my plans
> are acceptable, if the size of my module is convenient, or the
> formatting of comments, or anything else, for that matter.

Having submitted hundreds of things to dozens of projects my advice
is to start small. Small submissions are the easiest for the receiver
to digest and comment on. A couple of small submissions that go into
the code base will ease the way for larger and more complex subissions
often leading to eventual CVS/SVN/whatever commit rights.

Large submissions that from untrusted sources (ie you haven't contributed
something of worth before) are rarely accepted by any open source
project.

HTH,
Erik
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] [ExtLib] Getting ready for a second contribution

[David T. <Dav...@un...>]

Let me rephrase: I'm waiting for some feedback on either my planned list
of contributions or my previous submission. I have no clue if my plans
are acceptable, if the size of my module is convenient, or the
formatting of comments, or anything else, for that matter.

Cheers,
 David

On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 20:44 +0100, Richard Jones wrote:
> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 09:41:12PM +0200, David Teller wrote:
> >  I have a second contribution ready for submission. I'm waiting for a
> > greenlight from you.
> 
> [??]
> 
> Feel free to post patches whenever you want.
> 
> Rich.
> 
-- 
David Teller
 Security of Distributed Systems
  http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
 Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings liquidations. 

Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] [ExtLib] Getting ready for a second contribution

[Richard J. <ri...@an...>]

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 09:41:12PM +0200, David Teller wrote:
>  I have a second contribution ready for submission. I'm waiting for a
> greenlight from you.

[??]

Feel free to post patches whenever you want.

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

[Ocaml-lib-devel] [ExtLib] Getting ready for a second contribution

[David T. <Dav...@un...>]

   Hi,

 I have a second contribution ready for submission. I'm waiting for a
greenlight from you. It's an improvement to Enum, and, if you're
curious, it's available as a preview release here [1]. 

Cheers,
 David

[1]
http://forge.ocamlcore.org/frs/download.php/17/enum_replacement_0_1_1.tgz 

-- 
David Teller
 Security of Distributed Systems
  http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
 Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings liquidations. 

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Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] ExtLib/Camomile UTF8

[Richard J. <ri...@an...>]

On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 11:55:08AM +0200, Berke Durak wrote:
> As it's actually a patch against Camomile, (at the time I didn't know at the
> time that UTF8 was taken from Camomile),
> Richard Jones suggested that this is where the patch should go.

Yup, I think this should go into Camomile, and the UTF8 module should
be dropped from Extlib.

It's an unnecessary pain keeping two modules with the same name in
synch ... and if it is needed at all, then it is something which
should be done by the distributions.

Rich.

-- 
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Red Hat

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[Ocaml-lib-devel] [ExtLib] Design of Enum.init ?

[David T. <Dav...@un...>]

   Hi,

 I'm currently reviewing my code before sending in a second contribution
(this time, a patch to Enum) and I'm a bit puzzled by Enum.init . With
current implementation, creating a clone of an enumeration created with
[Enum.init n f] is the same thing as calling [Enum.init n f] again. In
particular, if one is to iter through both enumerations, [f 0] will be
invoked both by the original and by the clone, [f 1] will be invoked
both by the original and by the clone, etc.

For instance
(*start of example*)
let print e = Enum.iter (Printf.printf "%i; ") e;;
let f x = Printf.printf "\n\t(Evaluating %i)\n" x; x;;
let test_1 = Enum.init 5 f;;
let test_2 = Enum.clone test_1;;

# print test_1;;
        (Evaluating 0)
0; 
        (Evaluating 1)
1; 
        (Evaluating 2)
2; 
        (Evaluating 3)
3; 
        (Evaluating 4)
4; 

# print test_2;;
        (Evaluating 0)
0; 
        (Evaluating 1)
1; 
        (Evaluating 2)
2; 
        (Evaluating 3)
3; 
        (Evaluating 4)
4; 
(*end of example*)

I find this strange and inconsistent with the cloning of enumerations
created with [from] or forced. Now, it's rather easy to fix this but I'm
wondering if this behaviour is a bug or by design.

Cheers,
 David

-- 
David Teller
 Security of Distributed Systems
  http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
 Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings liquidations. 

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Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] Batteries Included

[Richard J. <ri...@an...>]

On Tue, May 06, 2008 at 11:34:29PM +0200, David Teller wrote:
> By the way, what's the preferred way for submitting patches ?

To extlib?  As unified diffs sent to the mailing list.

If you can split it into reviewable chunks, that helps.

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] Batteries Included

[David T. <Dav...@un...>]

By the way, what's the preferred way for submitting patches ?

Cheers,
 David

On Fri, 2008-05-02 at 15:57 +0200, David Teller wrote:
> Ok, as you prefer.

-- 
David Teller
 Security of Distributed Systems
  http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
 Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act
brings liquidations. 

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Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] Batteries Included

[David T. <Dav...@un...>]

Ok, as you prefer.

Let me sum everything up.

In my mind, Batteries Included is several things:
* building a comprehensive standard library for an extended distribution
of OCaml, from the standard library and existing libraries with
compatible licenses -- in this, draw inspiration from the Java or .Net
standard libraries, but probably without UI
* building a standard extended syntax for the same extended distribution
of OCaml
* customizing slightly the standard tools (ocamlc, ocamlopt, ocamlbuild,
etc.) to get them to use the aforementioned standard library & syntax
* marking as "standard" some very much needed tools (I'm thinking mostly
about findlib/ocamlfind and rlwrap, possibly menhir)

For information, there's currently a hiatus between Batteries Included
and Community OCaml, both of which have the same objectives and
different design choices. However, I'm pretty sure we'll be able to
resolve any problem shortly. I imagine that Community OCaml will end up
being the "full distribution" while Batteries Included will end up being
one or more modular GODI packages built on top of existing libraries.

Now, my current work starts on the library front, with ExtLib and yes,
not only your involvement is a possibility, it would even very much
appreciated. That work is three-fold: 
1. extending ExtLib without breaking compatibility 
2. documenting ExtLib as if it were the standard library
3. packaging ExtLib and the Inria standard library (and whatever will
join them), from the outside, so as to present a coherent structure.

You can find the current version of the code at
https://forge.ocamlcore.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/batlib/?root=batteries 
This code is experimental. You may also find a rather detailed list of
changes made and changes to be done at
https://forge.ocamlcore.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/doc/?rev=4&root=batteries 

As you may see, I already have made a number of additions to ExtLib. As
soon as they are tested, I will submit them as patches, one by one. I
hope I won't fall in the pitfall you underline, Richard, but don't
hesitate to watch me, as I'm prey to this kind of temptations :)

Cheers,
 David


On Fri, 2008-05-02 at 12:20 +0100, Richard Jones wrote:
> The trouble is that IRC doesn't make very much of a permanent record.
> 
> We'd just like to be involved - what changes are you planning to make?
> New functions?  If so, what new functions?  Bigger changes than that?
> 
> If these are just build changes, they can probably be confined to the
> 'Batteries Included' distribution, but if they involve significant
> changes to extlib, particularly ones which could create an extlib
> variant from a programmers point of view, then they should be
> discussed here.
> 
> Early discussion and small, early patches are much better than just
> dumping a huge patch on the project at the end (not that I'm
> suggesting you will do that, but I have seen this done to open source
> projects, and the results are not pretty).
> 
> Rich.
> 
-- 
David Teller
 Security of Distributed Systems
  http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
 Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings liquidations. 

Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] Batteries Included

[Richard J. <ri...@an...>]

On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 01:11:08PM +0200, David Teller wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-05-02 at 09:54 +0100, Richard Jones wrote:
> > Agreed ... Discussing the changes you want to make ahead of time will
> > reduce surprises.  Also submitting small patches (rather than one huge
> > patch at the end) will allow changes to be reviewed more carefully.
> Ok. What about meeting on IRC one of these days and discussing all
> that ? 

The trouble is that IRC doesn't make very much of a permanent record.

We'd just like to be involved - what changes are you planning to make?
New functions?  If so, what new functions?  Bigger changes than that?

If these are just build changes, they can probably be confined to the
'Batteries Included' distribution, but if they involve significant
changes to extlib, particularly ones which could create an extlib
variant from a programmers point of view, then they should be
discussed here.

Early discussion and small, early patches are much better than just
dumping a huge patch on the project at the end (not that I'm
suggesting you will do that, but I have seen this done to open source
projects, and the results are not pretty).

Rich.

-- 
Richard Jones
Red Hat

Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] Batteries Included

[Erik de C. L. <mle...@me...>]

David Teller wrote:

> Ok. What about meeting on IRC one of these days and discussing all
> that ? 

Wouldn't it be better to discuss it here on the list.

I'm sure we have people from all corners of the globe here and to
get everyone on IRC at once would be difficult. Its also nice to
have the discussion recorded.

Cheers,
Erik
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Erik de Castro Lopo
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Hey, I've re-dorkulated." -- Prof. Frink (The Simpsons)

Re: [Ocaml-lib-devel] Batteries Included

[David T. <Dav...@un...>]

Ok. What about meeting on IRC one of these days and discussing all
that ? 

Cheers,
 David

P.S.:
 For those who don't know, I'm Yoric[DT] on #ocaml on freenode.

On Fri, 2008-05-02 at 09:54 +0100, Richard Jones wrote:
> On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 01:11:19PM -0700, Janne Hellsten wrote:
> > At the very least, it would be good if you had a discussion about your
> > changes and goals of your project if you plan on making changes to ExtLib.
> 
> Agreed ... Discussing the changes you want to make ahead of time will
> reduce surprises.  Also submitting small patches (rather than one huge
> patch at the end) will allow changes to be reviewed more carefully.
> 
> Rich.
> 
-- 
David Teller
 Security of Distributed Systems
  http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/David.Teller
 Angry researcher: French Universities need reforms, but the LRU act brings liquidations.