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Re: [Obo-discuss] questions about principles: singular nouns and definitions
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From: Paul S. <ps...@mo...> - 2011-05-23 21:33:06
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Cattle is a collective noun, like poultry, game and baggage. Simple basic english grammar. This is probably best interpreted as a subclass of mass noun. These are characterized by the fact that they cannot be directly modified by a numeral without specifying a unit of measurement, ...and that they cannot combine with an indefinite article.....So you cannot correctly have "six cattle" but you may have "six head of cattle", and you cannot have "a cattle". The semantics of mass nouns are notoriously controversial, but this is well discussed. Is there a fully paid-up linguist in the house please? It cannot be used to refer to a single bovine organism unless you are translating badly from Serbo-Croat, but b) here is correct - thanks Stefan! There is an unfortunate "nounisation" of adjectives in common usage - "a bovine" or "a canine", which is ungrammatical and should be discouraged. There is even a reasonably (unusually) good wikipedia page on mass nouns, from which I quote above.... I have come across cattle being used as a collective noun for water buffalo, but there is the problem here of common usage which is going to vary depending on the nationality and culture of the people involved. Given these uncertainties then maybe Suzanne's original suggestion is as good as it gets - but is this an is_a or is some expression of equivalence needed ( as suggested by Stefan) as the intention is to make a statement of semantic equivalence between "cattle" and animals of" subfamily bovinae" if all are to be included? My six penn'orth. Sorry to appear dyspeptic.... P. On 23 May 2011, at 13:43, Stefan Schulz wrote: > Isn't "cattle" an inherently ambiguous term, which has the following > two readings: > > a) - one single bovine organism > b) - a collective (2,3,...n) of bovine organisms > > The exact name for a) is certainly "head of cattle", but often just > "cattle" is used. > > To capture all meanings of the term "cattle" (assuming the main > purpose of your ontology is to capture the meaning of terms...) I > would propose > > Cattle equivalentTo Bovine or > ((hasGranularPart some Bovine) and > (hasGranularPart only Bovine)) > > > /Stefan > > >> >> cattle is_a organism of the Subfamily Bovinae that is distinguished by.... >> bison is_a organism of the Subfamily Bovinae that is distinguished by.... >> yak is_a organism of the Subfamily Bovinae that that is distinguished by.... >> water buffalo is_a organism of the Subfamily Bovinae that that is >> distinguished by.... >> >> judy >> >> On 5/21/11 2:52 PM, "Michael Ashburner" <ma...@ge...> wrote: >> >> I disagree with Judy. Population has a particular meaning and all cattle are >> not members of the same population, even if of the same species. >> MA >> On 21 May 2011, at 18:02, Judith Blake wrote: >> >> I still think ‘cattle’ as a singular for a ‘population of Bos’ is ok. >> >> >> On 5/20/11 7:49 PM, "Melissa Haendel" <ha...@oh...> wrote: >> >> >> >> On May 20, 2011, at 7:23 AM, Adam M. Goldstein wrote: >> >> >> >> On May 20, 2011, at 10:10, Barry Smith <phi...@bu...> wrote: >> >> >> >> Instead of 'cattle' why not use 'bovine', and write: >> >> Bovine is_a organism of the Subfamily Bovinae that is commonly domesticated >> >> >> Point of information question: is this (modified by Barry's excellent >> suggestion below) precise enough? Are there critters in Bovinae that are not >> cattle but are frequently domesticated? >> >> >> yes, bison, yak, water buffalo... >> >> >> >> >> >> Even better would be: >> >> Bovine is_a X of the Subfamily Bovinae that is commonly domesticated >> >> where 'X' is the immediate parent of 'bovine' in your ontology. >> >> You should avoid making the mistake made by SNOMED in assertions such as: >> >> Afghan cattle breed is_a bos torus (organism) >> >> A breed is not an organism. >> >> Similarly an organism (head of cattle) is not a subfamily >> And a collective of organisms (cattle) is not a subfamily either >> BS >> >> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Santamaria, Suzanne <suz...@vt...> >> wrote: >> >> >> The term "Cattle" is defined in our developing ontology of common animal >> names as follows: >> >> Is_a Subfamily Bovinae >> Text definition: Animal of the Subfamily Bovinae that is commonly >> domesticated >> >> Because cattle is used for Bos taurus as well as Bison bison x Bos taurus >> hybrids, we could not use the existing term of Bos taurus for cattle. We >> connected cattle to its lowest common taxonomic antecedent term, Subfamily >> Bovinae. >> >> Suzanne >> >> Suzanne Santamaria, DVM >> Veterinary Medical Informatics Laboratory >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------------------------ >> >> Well, this might help solve one problem but it would create another: >> you would still have to somehow define "cattle"... >> >> Apologies for the "strange" English. >> >> K. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! >> Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its >> next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran >> developers boost performance applications - including clusters. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay >> _______________________________________________ >> Obo-discuss mailing list >> Obo...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/obo-discuss >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! >> Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its >> next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran >> developers boost performance applications - including clusters. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay >> _______________________________________________ >> Obo-discuss mailing list >> Obo...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/obo-discuss >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! >> Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its >> next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran >> developers boost performance applications - including clusters. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay >> _______________________________________________ >> Obo-discuss mailing list >> Obo...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/obo-discuss >> >> >> Dr. Melissa Haendel >> >> eagle-i Networking Research Resources >> OHSU Library >> Department of Medical Informatics and Epidemiology >> Oregon Health & Science University >> ha...@oh... >> skype: melissa.haendel >> 503-407-5970 >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! >> Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its >> next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran >> developers boost performance applications - including clusters. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay >> >> ________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> Obo-discuss mailing list >> Obo...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/obo-discuss >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! >> Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its >> next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran >> developers boost performance applications - including clusters. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay_______________________________________________ >> Obo-discuss mailing list >> Obo...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/obo-discuss >> >> >> ________________________________ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! >> Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its >> next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran >> developers boost performance applications - including clusters. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay >> ________________________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> Obo-discuss mailing list >> Obo...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/obo-discuss >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! >> Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its >> next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran >> developers boost performance applications - including clusters. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay >> _______________________________________________ >> Obo-discuss mailing list >> Obo...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/obo-discuss >> >> > > > > -- > > Stefan SCHULZ (Univ.-Prof. Dr. med.) > > Institut für Medizinische Informatik, > Statistik und Dokumentation > Medizinische Universität Graz > Auenbruggerplatz 2/V > 8036 Graz (Austria) > > http://www.medunigraz.at/imi > +43 (0)316 385 16939 > +43 (0)316 385 13201 > > http://purl.org/steschu > mailto:ste...@me... > Skype: stschulz > > [ home: Afritschgasse 32/3 > [ 8020 Graz (Austria) > [ mobile: +43 (0)699 150 96270 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! > Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its > next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran > developers boost performance applications - including clusters. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay > _______________________________________________ > Obo-discuss mailing list > Obo...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/obo-discuss |